Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.

Subject: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: Don Of Poteen
Date: 09 Apr 98 - 10:12 PM

Our Ceili Band is in the process of recording presently and we are experiencing great difficulty gaining permission to record both There Were Roses and Almost any Circumstance. These were penned by the Sands brothers and published by Elm Grove Music (British Isles. Have tried direct mail to EGM with letter returned. Have turned to the internet to locate either Sands brother on a site . No Go! Also no luck finding Elm Grove Music on the web. Any suggestions out there?

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: Jaxon
Date: 10 Apr 98 - 12:01 PM

Don, I'm contacting Robbie O'Connell, who has recorded There Were Roses, to see if he knows how
to get in touch with the proper individual.
I'll contact you when I get an answer.

Jack Murray

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: Don of Poteen
Date: 12 Apr 98 - 09:15 PM

Thanks Jack. Didn't think to contact Robbie or even where to start. Don

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: Jaxon
Date: 13 Apr 98 - 10:55 AM

Don, I sent you Robbie's reply privately via the Mudcat. If you can't access or it is muddled send me your e-mail address to [e-mail]
Jack Murray

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Apr 98 - 02:59 PM

Say, Jack, without revealing anything private, can you clue us in on how one would go about getting permission to record a song like this one? thanks
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: Jaxon
Date: 15 Apr 98 - 10:32 AM

Joe, I've left out Tommy and Colm's adress and phone but have left in the rest of Robbie's reply below:
"You do not need permission to record a song that has already been published, as these two songs have already been by virtue of being issued on albums. However, it is usual to obtain a mechanical liscense from the Publisher, which in this case is Elmgrove Music, which is their own publishing company. Tommy and Colm Sands can be contacted at:"
Hope this helps.
Jack Murray

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: Max
Date: 15 Apr 98 - 01:19 PM

Please check your facts independently of the Mudcat. This is a sticky game, and your best off being very thurough and very careful so not to regret it later or get any bad karma. Good Luck.

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: MarcB
Date: 24 Apr 98 - 04:31 PM

I find the statement that "you don't need to get permission to record a song that has been published(or recorded in this case)" very shocking and confusing. Someone shed some light?

Marc

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From:
Date: 24 Apr 98 - 05:03 PM

As I understand it, one can often purchas a "compulsory license" to record a song after it has been recorded once. I think (not sure) these are purchased through the Harry Fox Agency. If compulsory licenses are available for a song, then anyone who buys the license can record the song. One then (again, this is not legal advice, I am not your lawyer, don't take my word for any of this. Get a lawyer before you commit your money to anything) must keep accounts of every sale of the record containing the licensed song, and submit monthly reports to the Harry Fox Agency along with mechanical royalty payments for the licensed song. I forget the formula for computing the royalties.

A statement that one need not "get permission" might be considered to be technically correct in the sense that, if compulsory license is available, one can buy a license and therefore need not get explicit permission from the copyright holder. But as Marc suggests, such a statement is extremely misleading. As I understand it, one must have a license, whether compulsory or negotiated.

This is all discussed in Krasilovsky and Shemel's "This Business of Music", 7th Edition (1995). Anyone who wants to enter the music trade probably does well to acquire a copy of this book.

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: brenda
Date: 25 Apr 98 - 05:14 PM

hello don; i used to perform that song myself & it is indeed a wonderful piece. i am periodically in contact with colum sands, as he's a friend of my uncle's - if you could please e-mail me back at [e-mail], i can most likely get you in touch with him by snailmail(he's not on the net). also, if you do a search, The Sand's Family's management are on a homepage in Germany, as they tour there the most. Best, Brenda

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: Don of Poteen
Date: 27 Apr 98 - 09:42 PM

Thankyou Brenda! Betwixt a few of you good friends we may get this thing right. I'll come at you through email! Don

Subject: RE: Permission to record THERE WERE ROSES.
From: erica
Date: 28 Apr 98 - 03:13 PM

hey brenda, could i possibly mooch onto your offer which you extended don? i just recently learned the song and while i am overall clueless about recordings, think i'm gonna be sticking my toe into that water soon, and would include "...roses" if i could. (i thought i'd ask before bombarding you with email from weird unknown folks...probably get enough of that already!) i hope that you don't mind... thanks, erica