Yet Another Alphabet Quiz

Subject: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:17 AM

Here's yet another whole alphabet of songs, tunes, writers, performers and people (real or imagined). As usual, I had to cheat a bit here and there (especially near the end of the alphabet).

A - The premier and his wife thought reports of the miller's death were much exaggerated.
B - He set out to sweep the world, but failed to get even a few flowers.
C - Small English comedian, dancing in the moonlight with the ladies from France.
D - The Rev. Williamson tucked up with a daughter ... one for Spaw!
E - Strangely enough she was a man, though she sank in December.
F - She certainly done him, even though he was her man.
G - Summertime writer has things in common with a transatlantic werewolf in France.
H - Seems to have escaped having a song written*, but then he did from most things.
I - His Molly is waiting, but it's some distance from London to where the heart lies.
J - After all your cruel treatment, you can still get drunk with him.
K - Collier's invention; Kate can't undo the lock.
L - Reluctant Big Mac heroine lifts her skirt.
M - Her name reels in Scotland, though the Irish seem less sure of her gender.
N - He can't do it himself though it's less than ten; you should apply to his sister.
O - Cyril's salesman has no pasties left, and it's still raining.
P - Starting from Derby, she now plays fife but it's an Irishman who fancies her.
Q - Harry's in mourning for Edward's mum; death from Caesar and six followed after.
R - Addison's knight dances nine to the eight and even Mr Fezziwig joins in.
S - The writer partakes of cold water, thinks of babies and then changes occupation.
T - Great casting ... the last of six in Christchurch, Oxford, and he is a she.
U - It wasn't from a black man, nor from a brown, so you can bet a sailor's been there.
V - Pragmatic priest suits many kings, though the law he owns is his alone.
W - Her sons have an urgent appointment at the break of day, so no chance of a meal!
X - Coloured containers ... suspended, but not indefinitely.
Y - Recent leisurely walk from loving the ladies at the fair.
Z - US president suspended from a chain of gold, move along there John!

* As far as I know.

Answers, as usual, on the forum. If you do as well as before, it should take about 2½ hours or so. Collaboration strongly encouraged and comments about songs, tunes, writers, performers (or anything else) welcomed.

Good luck. Ian

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:21 AM

F=Frankie & Johnnie

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:25 AM

Oh well, someone has to start it off.
B - Bob Dylan? (Should have shoved him under "Z")
R - Roger de Coverly?
V - Vicar of Bray

They're probably all wrong, but at least it might give a starting point.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:25 AM

H= Harry Houdini
T= Tootsie (Dustbin Hoffman)
V= Vicar of Bray

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:25 AM

Frankie, Gershwin(?),Miss Mcleod,Oggie, Peggy O.Roger de coverley.Tom,Vicar of Bray

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:27 AM

why didnt you answer any of my quizzes Ian?

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Hawker
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:27 AM

A = Adadm & Eve O = Oggie man

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:28 AM

B's not Bob!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:28 AM

G= Gershwin

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Hawker
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:28 AM

A should read Adam & Eve!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:33 AM

L=Lizzie Lindsay O=Oggie Man W=Wife of usher's Well M=MacLeod's Reel (?) U=Underneath her Apron Y=Young Rambleaway

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:33 AM

Houdini and you and me (song)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:35 AM

Ellen Vannin

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:37 AM

G=George Gershwin

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:38 AM

Wolfgang - Thanks!

Greg - I don't do quizzes! (well actually, I saw your last two but was doing things which meant I couldn't spend too long on the net, so reluctantly missed out. I'll pop in next time.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:45 AM

C=Charlie Chaplin

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:53 AM

Also: "Dim ond I ar brawd Houdini" by Meic Stevens

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:55 AM

Q=Queen Jane

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:56 AM

E=Edmund Fitzgerald? No, couldn't be; she didn't sink in December (she sank on November 10, 1975). Never mind!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:59 AM

N=Nine Times a Night.

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:59 AM

S=Spencer the Rover (How could I miss this for so long!!!)

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:04 AM

B=Bonny Bunch of Roses/Bonaparte

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:07 AM

X green bottles

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:13 AM

D=Dainty Davie? ... Oh well, back to work now. Time for a suumary, IanC?

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:14 AM

Zachary Taylor(gained the day)

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:38 AM

Yeah, Z would be Zachary Taylor, although his first name isn't in the song (at least, not in the version in the DT – http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2194 – just "General Taylor"). I wouldn't call that "cheating" exactly, though, Ian, since the guy's first name was Zachary!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:49 AM

Ian only said he was cheating "near" the end of the alphabet, Sharon. I think he was referring to X green bottles.

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:54 AM

Summary so far

A - Adam and Eve
B - Bonny Bunch of Roses (Napoleon Bonaparte)
C - Charlie Chaplin
D - Dainty Davie
E - Ellen Vannin
F - Frankie and Johnny
G - George Gershwin
H - Harry Houdini
I - ??
J - ??
K - ??
L - ??
M - Miss McLeod's Reel
N - Nine Times a Night
O - Oggy Man
P - Pretty Peggy O' Derby
Q - Queen Jane
R - Roger de Coverley
S - Spencer The Rover
T - ?? (need slightly more than Tom)
U - Underneath Her Apron
V - Vicar of Bray
W - Wife of Usher's Well
X - X Green Bottles
Y - Young Rambleaway
Z - (General) Zachary Taylor

4½ to go!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:58 AM

Great Tom is cast

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:00 AM

interesting pattern :the unanswered ones are consecutive.

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:08 AM

J isnt "Get up Jack John sit down" is it?

Subject: Lyr Add: Adam and Eve - Corrections
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:30 AM

A note about Adam and Eve

The DT version makes less sense than it should because of the typos. Here are the 2 verses:

Adam and Eve could never believe that Peter the miller was dead
Shut up in a tower for stealing a flower
And never could get a relief
And never could get a relief

They bored a hole in Oliver's nose and pulled therein a string
And drew him around about the town
For murdering Charles our King
For murdering Charles our King

They should be:

Adam and Eve could never believe that Peter the miller was dead
Shut up in a tower for stealing flour
And never could get a reprieve

They bored a hole in Oliver's nose and tied therein a string
And drew him around about the town
For murdering Charles our King

The rhyme, as I remember it, didn't have the repeating the last lines either. BTW, the tune is supposed to be taken from the chimes of Christchurch, Dorset I think.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:35 AM

J= Jock Stuart., a man you don't meet every day

If L isn't Lizzie Lindsay, as D McG posted, then I'm a Dutchman

WassaiL! V

Subject: Question about, and link to, "Ellen Vannin"
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:46 AM

Ian: Okay, obviously I don't understand the clue for "E" (Ellen Vannin), since here across the pond I'm not familiar with the terminology for a person from the Isle of Man. I've heard the term "Manx" as an adjective, but does one say "he (or she) is Manx" (as I would say "I'm American")? And does one say "he (or she) is a Man" (as I would say "I'm an American" or "I'm a Pennsylvanian")? ...or would one say "Mannan", or "Mannish", or what?

By the way, here's a link to lyrics for "Ellen Vannin" (for anyone else who, like me, isn't familiar with the song): http://www.molwert.de/Lieder/Ellen_Vannin_Tragedy.htm NOTE: An mp3 of the tune plays automatically when the page appears on-screen.

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:56 AM

Snuffy

L is Leezie Lindsay ... searched for it on the page but got done by the spelling. J isn't Jock Stuart ... The treatment meted out is more than just cruel!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:06 AM

...or would it be "he is a Manxman" and "she is a Manxwoman"? "A Mannian"? "A Mannite"? This is driving me to distraction; help!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:07 AM

Aha, I can take a hint. John Barleycorn.
Sharon, you're trying to be too complicated, about manx etc. Ellen Vannin is Manx Gaelic for "Isle of Man"or Man for short. he's just saying it's odd that someone called Ellen is (a)Man.

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:09 AM

I'm just back from playing a festival in the Isle of Man. "He is Manx" or "he is a Manxman" would both be correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:18 AM

Thanks, Greg!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:29 AM

OK folks, just I and K left.

Ideas, anybody?

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:43 AM

I: It's a long way to Tipperary?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Hawker
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:59 AM

Sorry to be picky, but I think you'll find the correct spelling is Ellan Vannin!
Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:09 PM

Lucy

I think you'll find that, like many spellings, it's not as immutable as all that. For example, look at this set of notes from the Manx Society, where it's spelt both ways in the same sentence.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:19 PM

Please do be picky! I noticed that, in the lyrics I linked, the Hughie Jones song is entitled "The Ellen Vannin Tragedy" but the name in the lyrics themselves is spelled "Ellen Vannen"!

Then there are the Eliza Craven Green lyrics of 1854 which render it "Ellan Vannin" as Lucy says. See this page for lyrics and music: http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/ms1896/p070.htm

So was the poster of the Hughie Jones lyrics not sufficiently concerned with accuracy? I did a Google search on all three spellings and got many hits for each, so I can't even tell what the correct spelling of the ship's name was!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:19 PM

Yes, Ian, I was going to say roughly the same toLucy. Manx Gaelic has a varied written history and both spellings are completely standard.However i must say I've never seen a photo of the nameplate on the boat, so Lucy may well be completely correct that Ellan was what was actually written on it.Anyone know for sure?
As a footnote, she was launched as "Mona's Isle". We all know what happens when you change a boat's name!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:27 PM

Well ... though Greg credited me with more cunning, I was just referring to the fact that all ships (and bells - see T) are she ... so I don't really have a problem.

In the meantime (and while I'm waiting for someone to ask themselves what kind of person this Collier was and thus get the answer to K), heres a note about the Bonny Bunch of Roses. Napoleon died on St Helena in 1821 and Roy Palmer has traced some of the early broadsides back to the early 1820s (i.e. almost contemporaneous) so it was probably originally written as a broadside. Here's a nice one from Glasgow (makes a change from The Bodleian) which looks like it's from the first half of the 19th Century.

Whils I was looking around for this quiz, though, I found it quoted on a "Songs of 1798" site ... is this an even earlier version?

;-)
Ian

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:36 PM

On this site of Manx books there is a book advertised about the loss of the ELLAN VANNIN (this spelling; which is by the way the same as in the history of The Isle of Man Steam Packet Co. Limited.).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:40 PM

Also (to be fair) the same as Hughie Jones spelt it when he wrote the song so...

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:51 PM

OK ... here's one for Wolfgang. My kind of Collier is a J. P. Collier ------------------ ;-) Ian

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 01:19 PM

As an aside on Ellan Vannin: Both the lyrics in Sharon's link and in the DT have the same error in the last verse:

...A terrible storm in ninety-nine...

The tragedy was in nineteen nine (1909)

Wolfgang

Subject: "Ellan Vannin" aka "Ellen Vannen" & "Ellen Vannin"
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 02:02 PM

Right you are, Wolfgang! Thanks for that heads-up. Okay, here's a link to the lyrics with the correct year-date: http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/shanty/elenvann.htm

But wait... there's more! The lyrics at www.molwert.de have the first line as "Snaefell, Tyndwall and Benmachree" and the captain's name as Tier. The lyrics at www.acronet.net say "Snaefell Tynwald, Ben-my-Chree" and spell the captain's name as Teare.

Then there's the first line of the sixth verse. Molwert.de has "Few Manxmen now remember", whereas Acronet.net has "You Manxmen now remember". Quite a difference in meaning! Is it safe to assume that Acronet's line is correct? (There are other, less glaring, discrepancies between the two versions as well.)

When was this song written? I can't find a date for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 04:42 AM

We should have started an extra thread for that song, but...

The Loss of the Ellan Vannin (with pictures of the ship!) seems quite reliable to me.

The name of the captain on this site (and all other sites I have seen) is Teare. The spelling of the mountain is variable and depends on to which amount the Welsh name has been anglicised. From roughly knowing when the Spinners have been singing, the song should have been written in the 1960s (give or take a decade). Therefore, "few Manxmen.." makes more sense to me.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 05:41 AM

Anyone fancy having a go at K?

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 05:45 AM

Is K still unanswered? JP Collier was the editor of the Roxborough Ballads (thanks Google!) and Kate Dalrymple is a tune from that area which for some reason I associate with the clue - I cannot explain why; I can certainly give no explanation for the lock. Anyone know any more?

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 05:54 AM

AH-HA!

.... "Kitt hath lost her key," f. 108, is another of Collier's forgeries ...

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 07:39 AM

Thanks folks ... here's the whole list.

A - Adam and Eve
B - Bonny Bunch of Roses (Napoleon Bonaparte)
C - Charlie Chaplin
D - Dainty Davie
E - Ellen Vannin
F - Frankie and Johnny
G - George Gershwin
H - Harry Houdini
I - It's a Long Way to Tipperary
J - John Barleycorn
K - Kitt Hath Lost Her Key
L - Leezie Lindsay
M - Miss McLeod's Reel
N - Nine Times a Night
O - Oggy Man
P - Pretty Peggy O' Derby
Q - Queen Jane
R - Roger de Coverley
S - Spencer The Rover
T - Great Tom is cast
U - Underneath Her Apron
V - Vicar of Bray
W - Wife of Usher's Well
X - X Green Bottles
Y - Young Rambleaway
Z - (General) Zachary Taylor

BruceO posted a lot of stuff on J. P. Collier's forgeries a couple of years ago. Worth the read.

BTW I found Hughie Jones's address and phone number on the web yesterday (can't find it today though) ... he posted it himself apparently ... someone might like to 'phone him? about Ellan Vannin, though there's one or two threads with some information.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 09:29 AM

For further discussion about the Ellan Vannin, please go to this thread that Wolfgang kindly started: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin


IanC, thanks for creating this enjoyable quiz!

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 09:34 AM

Yes thanks again. Given how long we took this time, are the quizzes getting tougher, or are we just more dozy these days? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 09:59 AM

Yes, you took almost 24 hours this time; but mostly that was on one item and we did get involved in discussing Ellan Vannin, which took up some energy.

Probably neither dozy nor more difficult, then.

Thanks all for your efforts. I usually dicover quite a few little titbits while I'm researching for these quizzes anyway, so it would be worthwhile for me even if I didn't start the quiz threads!

;-)
Ian