Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'

Subject: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:31 PM

While talking with a friend in Denmark, he advised me that Hagar (as in Hagar the Horrible) is pronounced "Hog-Arrgh." As Hagar existed prior to the existence of rail-roads, any chantey written about him would have to predate the Hogeye song.

The chorus and a couple of verses go:

And it's Hagar, Big old viking name of Hagar, Charge ashore with his broadsword, Oh, He is the Hagar man.

Helga is old Hagar's wife, She's why he chose the viking life.

Hagar has invaded France So he and Helga can learn to dance.

Hagar's ship has a viking crew If you get too close they'll shanghai you!

Clearly, this song has old and new elements but I am sure some you of you 'know' verses I have not yet included in the song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:00 PM

Viking horrible song if you ask me.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 02:31 PM

But of course, so is Hogeye

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 03:50 PM

I very much doubt the voracity of the verse:-"Hagar's ship has a viking crew, If you get too close they'll shanghai you!" To my certain knowledge the vikings never got within a thousand miles of Shanghai, so the expression would have meant nothing to Hagar. Of course, it may be that the verse was sanitised from some unsavoury viking original........was there a single norse word for *rape & pillage* I wonder?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:00 PM

Bear in mind that the root word for "vacation" is the same as the root word for "viking."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:03 PM

Could you add these lyrics to the "Dana's missing panties" thread?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:14 PM

Vacation, OF vacation, Latin vacation, has no relationship to Viking (vikingr). See OED.

Hagar probably "Dublinged" crew. (Or whatever the settlement at present-day Dublin was called).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:14 PM

Vacation, OF vacation, Latin vacation, has no relationship to Viking (vikingr). See OED.

Hagar probably "Dublinged" crew. (Or whatever the settlement at present-day Dublin was called).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:23 PM

Probably not the same root, but given that the Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology gives Viking as coming from Old English wic or Old Friesian wik meaning "camp": I would think "camping" and "vacation" do have a certain connection. Loitering within tent?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:41 PM

Help me Bob, I'm bully in the fjiord. Way hay, bully in the fjiord. Help me Bob, I'm bully in the fjiord, Bully down in Val-halla.

As I sharpened up my broadsword, one morning in July.
I met a maid, she axed my haid(head), and now I'm three foot high.
And away, you Hagar, bleeding bragger, O-ho, you norsemaid gals, you want me for a shagger.

I nivver seen the like since I was born, when a big old viking with his helmet on, says Hagar come down to Jorvik, poor old sod. Oh, wake her, oh shake her, oh rape that gal with blue woad on, Hagar come down to Jorvik, poor old sod.
Now, Barnacle, see what you started?
I hope you're satisfied......(goes off, mumbling about interfering busy-bodies and piss takers in general)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 06:15 PM

More thread creep- wik, wick, wike, wyk(e) in Old English, Saxon, means dwelling place inc. hamlet, dairy farm, enclosure, etc.; vic (cf. L. vicus), street, row of houses, etc.
Viking-r is Icelandic, Old Norman.
Old English wic, wicing, prob. from a creek or inlet, a different word from the wik meaning dwelling place; thus Hagar and friends probably named by the Anglo-Frisians as people coming out of inlets of the sea- Viking was not the original name of the Vikings, but later was adopted by them. Interesting that they are known by the name applied by the people being invaded or preyed upon.

Note: The history of these words as given in the OED should be taken cum grano salis; similarly the story in the etymological dictionary which was compiled, I have heard (I don't have a copy of the Etymology, so can't check), by different editors. Both are interpretations of the evidence remaining to us.
In other words, the explanation found by Greg probably is just as likely!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 07:03 PM

I thought Hogeye was a mispronunciation of Oggie, which is what a Cornish Pasty is called in Cornwall, and that a Hogeye man was like a Cornish pieman or muffin man. Maybe I've led an innocent life. What was Nellie picking the peas for?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 08:43 PM

Sunday lunch?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:50 PM

Yomping Yimminy -
Larry the less horrible
(Decendant of Rollo Ericson the Walker)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 02:45 PM

But the Danes (and presumably others) would "go Viking" and come back with all sorts of souveniers.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 03:21 PM

Hey, I thought this was a serious forum! Have you people no shame!

Uncheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:02 PM

dicho, i think the problem with the wic=creek etymology is that the Old Friesian and old English words for these unwelcome tourists(wicing/witsing/wising) seem to come from words meaning either settlement or temporary camp: the "creek" meaning came much later in Scandinavian languages.As you say they all derive from the same root and mean many things in many Indo-European languages, generally variants on"places where you live": in various languages at various times this can be house, group of houses, village, camp, inlet etc etc.Given contemporary and archaeological accounts of how the early Viking raids happened(they wouldarrive, throw up a temporary wooden camp on a peninsular or similar defensible position, and raid out from there). The -ing ending means "people of" in English and Friesian at the time,so people of the camps seems the best bet in my book. But as you say, it's a lot of guesswork.
Anway, in the context of the general level of this thread I thought "camp" fitted in well with "vacation" and "tourist".

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:36 PM

Charley, since when have vikings had any shame. After all, they were the original berserks (here we go again).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:43 PM

I don't think you can just blame the Vikings for the no shame/berserk thing. The Ancient Brits and Gaels carefully removed their knickers before fighting too. Not sure about the Anglo-Saxons, I've never seen any references to that. Presumably the rationale was something to do with laundry bills, connected with any problems arising either during or immediately before the battle.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 07:53 PM

Ridding themselves of filthy clothing made a lot of good sense, assuming they were aware of the health effects of cold steel slashing through dirty linen. Sailors gnerally stripped off their shirts for similar reasons aboard ship prior to battle.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 08:04 PM

It last happened in Britain at Killiecrankie in 1689( a fortnight after the Battle of the Boyne,and part of the same conflict). Bonnie Dundee's troops(some of them anyway) charged naked against General McKay's army. Possibly chanting their traditional war song "Och Aye Man"??

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 10:25 AM

You notice that these battles seem to have been fought in the summer. Sounds very similar to a Hell's Angels run/brawl.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 10:28 AM

Yes, you dont hear about that kind of thing at the Glencoe massacre in the snow.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 01:16 PM

Aye! But they wuz nakid underneath, d'ye ken!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 04:44 PM

Can anyone 'recall' any additional verses for the canon? I'd like to reintroduce this at the chantey sing on Saturday.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 08:07 AM

So why no mention of the Oxide man - some versions have him on an oxide ship like the copper oxiders from Chile?
doesn't Uncle Stan mention both versions? (not at home right now)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 09:48 AM

See also THE LIFEBOAT MAN in the DT

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 02:59 PM

Mr Red, I thought they got guano from Chile (that's bird shit to you) so we might have a version called "Birds Eye Man"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man'
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 03:29 PM

Sorry, the Birdseye Man is about how Clarence discovered how to quick freeze food [and maybe Ted Williams].