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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Brian May Date: 14 Aug 11 - 04:00 PM Being an Englishman, any song about murdering Scotsmen is my favourite - especially if it's 'in-house'. That said, I always thought the Corries was an excellent version. ;o) |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Leadfingers Date: 14 Aug 11 - 03:44 PM It was DEFINTELY '99' when I posted at 01.19 so NOW 100 |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Leadfingers Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:18 PM 100 |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: ollaimh Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:48 PM being a direct lineal descendant of the youngest son of the last gaelic laird of glencoe(by gaidhlig law) i say stop singing that limp wristed and mournfull piece of crap. at least untill they give us out land back. sing a proper rebel song, or at least give an introductory talk about aborigional land rights and the injustice of british/americam genocidal imperial warfare. thqat song is contining the romantic crap from the nineteenth century about the noble savages. being in this case the gaels.(by the way we didn't call ourselves highlanders). we are the nova scotia branch. i am from a cadet line. my grandfather was the youngest son by a secong wife of the direct line, one of whom became lieutennent of nova scotia. his achieving the viceregal status was viewed by him and many others as an historic avenging of the injustice of the dispossion of the gaelic clans. and he gave many lovely speaches in gaeic. its an awfull song for the soft headed sentimentalists--SING A REBEL SONG |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim McLean Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:29 AM I think I should repeat that there is another Jim McLean, a bit younger, but it is he who performs and gives shows. I don't. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST Date: 14 Aug 11 - 09:30 AM Jim - I could not believe that you said such good things on the mudcat cafe. It was good to understand your ideas on writing songs like Glencoe. My friend Martin had a group called braveheart and one of the songs Glencoe, which he was convinced was written and first performed by the Corries, and I didn't know any better, and Jim, it's great to hear your opinion. It was 1963 I when you wrote it...I also know 'Silver Darlings'. People always laugh when Martin sings it, and ask him what his favourite version is. Even though Braveheart has split, we still do occasional one off reunions, such as before the summer break. I hope you continue to do shows and write songs Jim! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Ross Campbell Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:44 PM Jim MacLean I remember you visited the old Blackpool Folk Club in the early '70s (possibly in town for a conference?) I can't recall if you sang the song, but the late Brian Osborne of resident group the Taverners used to do a fine version. If you ever get back this way, Alan Bell still runs the Fylde Folk Festival, you would be a welcome addition to our song-writers workshop! As has been mentioned above, many worse massacres took place in Scotland in terms of both numbers and ferocity of execution (and some of those perpetrated by Campbells too). As to Campbell/MacDonald friction, I have never felt there was anything personal in anything said in my presence. The fact that I have cousins named MacDonald, and some of my parents' best friends were MacDonalds suggests that previous generations managed to get past this terrible event. I can recommend the little museum in Glencoe. I think there's also a visitor centre which explains the story. Haven't tried the Clachaig Inn. What are my chances? Ross |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: meself Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:44 PM What - you mean they're still slaughtering MacDonalds? Why aren't we hearing more about this? (Btw - you're not related to HAMISH A MCDONALD by any chance, are you?) |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,legionareuk Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:20 PM the cambell had orders,king william had signed,these words under lined..leave none alive called mcdonald,..true as much as to day,as it was then |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: MystMoonstruck Date: 07 Sep 07 - 02:28 AM I suppose I have a fondness for Father, Son & Friends' version of the song since they are the first I heard it from. Actually, I heard it on one of their cassettes before I was fortunate to encounter them at Spirit of Vincennes Rendezvous in Indiana. Later, I caught it again at Feast of the Hunter's Moon near Lafayette, Indiana, a performance at which all of us joined in the chorus, quite a solemn group. I find that, when I play it on my bowed psaltery, it's difficult to stop once I get into the flow of it. It's almost hypnotic to me. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,meself Date: 03 Apr 07 - 06:03 PM He doesn't need them for those "McDONALD burgers". Nor for the "cambell" soup for that matter, should he decide to go over to the dark side, or take a walk on the wild side ... |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Apr 07 - 05:58 PM Hamish: Put yer teeth in! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,HAMISH A MCDONALD Date: 03 Apr 07 - 05:45 PM the best version of the massacre of glencoe was the alexander brothers and what pepole keep forgetting is mcIain was heald in prison for three days or more so he counin't sign in time as the plan had already been put into plan by higher up the ladder and for one wee glen in scotland why should they forget what had happend all these year's ago and why should they forgive a cambell when they murderd there own even his own neice they might have there soups but we have ower McDONALD burgers |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:57 AM Well I know that Jim Lad composed The Hills Of Margaree and that is a fine song by any standard. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Mar 07 - 12:01 AM Naw! That was Burnsy? I wrote something else but nobody liked it. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,meself Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:14 PM I wouldn't put it past Jim Lad - but I think what he said is that he's "partial to rogues" - and I don't think he meant that in the polite sense ... |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Bardan Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:00 PM Two comments. Did someone Scottish say they objected to being called Jimmy? Sure the Scots call everyone Jimmy. Including people who's names have no connection whatsoever. I think it's just like mac or mate in other places. Jim Lad, did you say you'd composed parcel of rogues? If so well done! Great song! Ditto Jim McLean but you've already been congratulated plenty. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:24 PM Was never a fan of Alisdair. Bit too "Throaty", I always thought so I can't imagine him doing a nice job of it. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:15 PM It may have been Alasdair Gillies that you heard. Just a guess. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:06 PM They dance a Waltz to "No Man's Land" in Cape Breton. I swear to God! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,meself Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:18 PM Don't remember the EXACT date, but I remember the exact place - the living-room couch, when I was a young lad, the old fella sitting there with his arm around me - watching one of those music shows from the Maritimes, and there was this young man in highland regalia (not J'n Allan) standing alone singing ... I can still see it - and hear it. I don't know if it was the MacDonald blood in my veins or what, but the song must have really struck me - it was probably at least fifteen years before I heard the song again, but I never forgot the melody, the story, and the chorus. Like Jim Lad, I can't say that about many songs. The melody, by the way, became a standard waltz tune in Cape Breton. Gentlemen, I give you: Jim McLean! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 26 Mar 07 - 04:07 PM Jim - I'd wondered why it wasn't among those available to listen to! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim McLean Date: 26 Mar 07 - 03:37 PM Tery, no problems. If you 'Google' me you should include a ong of mine like 'Glencoe' otherwise you might end up with a famouse golfer! Thanks Jim Lad. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 26 Mar 07 - 02:05 PM Jim - Apologies - I put 'Jim McLean' into Google and came up with a Scots singer/songwriter who, when I listened to his recordings, was very good indeed and I assumed I was listening to you. Sorry about that. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:46 PM I know the exact date and where I was when I learned that song. I don't think I can say that about any other. Just realized that. Jim: You certainly gave me food for though, earlier. I'd have to say, we all get pricked by different thorns as we walk our separate paths. That's why He made Blackberries and Gooseberries I suppose. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,meself Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:41 PM Terry, Terry, Terry ... I feel like Miss Manners here. You come into a room in which some people are discussing a popular song with the man who wrote it. This man has written other songs that have become pub standards on both sides of the Atlantic, and was a compatriot of the Dubliners, Dominic Behan, and Lord knows who else. You proceed to tell this man, along with the rest of the company, that you don't like the song under discussion, but that you do sing this song, reluctantly, because it serves your purposes as an entertainer. You repeat this - how many times? One of the company good-naturedly chides you, and you repeat this statement yet again! I have a mind what kind of treatment that would get you down at the Ship Inn - and it would be more of the MISTER Manners variety (for instance, the phrase "puck in the gob" may come to mind ... ). |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim McLean Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:39 PM Just a couple of points. Sandy, I agree with all you have said and I don't think it differs from what I said as a glance at any pre Clearance publication will show. Terry, you must be a better guitarist and singer than I am as I have never been recorded! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:27 PM One of the best songs to come out of Scotland in the twentieth century. Even those who don't like it, sing it. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:16 PM OK, done that. Now what? I suppose I was simply reiterating what I said 25 March, 03:40 AM. I really wish I could be more enthusiastic but there is just something about it (the tempo, I reckon) that makes me not put it amongst my favourite songs. It'll stay in my repertoire, though. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,meself Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:43 PM Okay - now go stand in the corner and think about it awhile! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:27 PM meself - put like that, I don't know! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,meself Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:10 PM Terry - why exactly are you going out of your way to tell the man who wrote a very popular song fifty or more years ago that you are not fond of it? (A rhetorical question). |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:53 AM Oh well - just listened to the Corries' version, which seems to be most people's favourite. Sorry Jim, but I'm still not enamored with it and it's the tempo (especially on the chorus)rather than the melody. It's just too simple a 3/4 rhythm for my taste. But, as I said earlier, everyone likes it so who am I to deny the public what they want? I'll certainly continue to sing and play it when the venue calls for it. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:46 AM In regards to Mc/Mac it is very subjective. My parents and grandparents before me used "Mc". When I was born the registar recorded my birth certificate as "Mac" so that is my legal name but I still use "Mc". Mac in Gaelic means son. MacLean in Gaelic has several spellings, one being "MacGillean". This was shortened in English to McLean and later the "a" was put back in by many people. Cape Breton Island was heavily settled by Gaelic speaking folk from the Clearances and almost all of any clan used "Mc" when writing their name in English. Today most here use "Mac". A tour of any cemetery in Cape Breton containing headstones of these pioneers will quickly give proof to what I say. Slainte, Sandy |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: guitar Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:34 AM true story, a french tourist arrives at Ballauaish near Glencoe and asked a local if there were any McDonald's (they were hungry) and the local said not any more |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:15 AM Jim McLean - just found your post of 29 May 05 and the key and chords you cited then are exactly as I play the song. I've been listening to you on the Folk Alley website - you're a much better singer and guitarist than I am! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: jacqui.c Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:06 AM I first heard this song at a local folk session, sung by a guy from Fort William. He was a little off key but I loved both the words and the melody from the first time I heard them. The only version I know is the one by the Corries and that was so good! Jimlad - having listened to some of your other stuff, I would love to hear your take on this one. I bet you could do it real justice. Jim McLean - many thanks for a beautiful song. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim McLean Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:37 AM Thanks Jim. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:24 AM Jim: "I don't see how you can just say I'm wrong." Not at all! Your opinion is as valid as mine. It was a good natured jab, nothing more. You clearly have a more forgiving nature than I do when it comes to names though. I was "Brannigan" to the teachers all the way through school and like many Scots was well into adulthood before I ever heard my own handle on a frequent basis. I'll be looking up your catalogue soon. If this song is a typical example of your work, I want to see more. Kind Regards Jim |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Jim McLean Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:06 AM Jim Lad, A number of years ago (before Google) I began to wonder why my father was an Mc but his brother was an Mac and also why was the small c on the upper line and not on the same 'level' as the ean? Reading a few 18th and 19th century book showed me that the printers' convention at the time was to use an apostrophe in place of Mac. All MacDonalds, MacLeans, MacGibbons were in fact M'Donald, M'Lean and M'Gibbon. This would explain why it was printed above the line. It would be just as easy to write a small c. On closer examination I found that the apostrophe was in fact an open quote which looks like a small c, the reverse of the apostrophe. And so this was in time seen as a small c on the upper part of the line. In my family's case, it appeared that my grandfather just allowed the registrar to fill in the certificate on both occasions (he was very fond of his whisky). My great grandfather was from Mull and spelled his name Mac! Like you I am called either Jim, James, etcetera but this has no relevance on the Mc V Mac question. I don't see how you can just say I'm wrong. Regarding the chords to Glencoe, I leave that to the singer/player as I wrote it as a melody line. At the time of writing, about 45 years ago, I lived in a tiny room and composed most of my songs using an English concertina! Thanks for all your kind comments. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:15 PM meself - that's a very fair and interesting point! I've never realised it before but I've only ever heard Alistair MacDonald sing it (and lately Ruth at the Thursday folk club in Wimborne) so, yes, maybe I've missed something. I continually re-work songs that I've known for thirty or more years but can't think of how I would do Glencoe differently. Ummmm.....worrying....... |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 25 Mar 07 - 06:57 PM Re The Glencoe Massacre: John Dalrymple, The Master of Stair took charge of the Royal Ordinance that every highland clan chief must abandon his Stuart loyalty. Although I had forgotten his name, I remember the story well because Jim McLean's song prompted me to research this piece of history, many years ago as opposed to accepting the English indoctrination that passes for "History" in our schools. If that doesn't say something about the relevance of this song with regards to the "Folk Process" then I may well be, uncharacteristically, at a loss for words. Thanks again for the song, Jim. Names: John, Jack, Jock & Johnny may all be John at birth but to deny the difference is to deny the identity of the individual. I frequently get Hamish, Seamus, James and believe it or not "Jim Lad" from those who know me but when someone calls me "Jimmy", it ticks me right off. Because it's usually from one who thinks he knows me better than he does. I was never called Jimmy in Scotland because that's not my name. Same goes with Mc & Mac. I can hear, at least where I was raised, a distinct difference between the two. To Conclude: "The Massacre of Glencoe" is a rer wee folk song. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,meself Date: 25 Mar 07 - 06:54 PM Terry - sounds like your criticism is of a certain recorded version - the Alistair MacDonald one, presumably? - rather than of the song itself (lyrics + melody) - right? I think this should be made clear if you're talking to the man who wrote the song! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 25 Mar 07 - 06:15 PM Jim. You're wrong. Cheers Jim |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:48 PM Jim McLean - nice to hear from the writer! I genuinely thought it had been written by Alistair MacDonald and even said so in a thread about it in 2003. Oops! My only criticism (or perhaps 'comment) is that it doesn't sound like a 'traditional' or 'folk' song - the chords are just too modern. Everyone likes it, though, and I'm not the only person to sing it at the folk club I go to each Thursday. Interestingly, the other singer, uses just three chords. What sequence did you use when you wrote it? |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim McLean Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:21 PM I,ve just seen this thread again and I find it amusing how it has affected some people. I wrote it as I did many other historical songs, based on research and recorded facts. Jim Lad, Mc and Mac or M' (open quote) are all the same. There is an intersting page in the notes to Johnson's Musical Museum where the name McGibbon is spelled McGibbon, MacGibbon and M (small, underlined c), all, I repeat on the same page. It's purely a matter of spelling in the 18th and 19th century and all would have been pronounced exactly the same. |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:10 PM Jim....I never expected such a stereotypical response! Hope you wear a check shirt and say 'eh!' at the end of every sentence..... No - it's not a fine song, but it is a very commercial one and I was (and am) conscious of how popular it is. Doesn't sound like a 'folk song' to me, though. Deliberately learned it all those years ago for the reasons I cited earlier. (I also like playing it - nice chords) |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 25 Mar 07 - 04:39 PM And when we drink our tea, do we hold the pinky up in the air also? It's a fine song. Come on. You can say it! |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 25 Mar 07 - 01:02 PM We write it with the 'c' up in the air.... |
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Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version From: Jim Lad Date: 25 Mar 07 - 12:58 PM The pronunciation I was referring to was the "Mc" versus the "Mac". As for your English accent, no need to apologize. Grin Jim |
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