Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)

Subject: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay
From: GUEST,sanmo
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 04:20 PM

Please take a look at Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay lyrics and take them off the kids section of the website. Or off completely. This is a horrible song for kids.

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay
From: GUEST,curmudgeon
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 06:22 PM

Sanmo -- If you study the kids' songs carefully, you will realise that many of these songs were made by kids, ie., Tah Rah Rah Boomdeay. Like it or not, kids have sung some fairly ribald and viiolent songs, and passed them on to their fellows, and from time to time, to us witless adults. Take a look at "Long and Thin."

If all this offends you, don't look at it; don't let your kids look at it. But do not attempt to censor this music, made by and for the people. Better yet, stick to the Readers Dogest -- Tom

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 08:30 PM

Yeah, I think you're right. Sure, it's a kids song - but they shouldn't be able to get it from a part of the Website that's designed for kids. It's fine for it to be in the Digital Tradition, but it shouldn't be accessible in the "Mudcat for Kids" section. I'll try to see that it's removed.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: GUEST,curmudgeon
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 08:54 PM

Joe -- You are taking on a massive task. i just went to the kids' section because of the censorious post, and just skimming briefly, foumd three off color kids ditties. If you off one, you have to off 'em all -- Tom

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 09:55 PM

I have to be with Curmudgeon on this one. Kids know more than we think they do, and will make up really bawdy stuff. Frankly I didn't see anything in Ta Ra that set me off. I remember:
Ta ra ra boom de ay,
How did she get that way?

Which is bawdier than the DT version.

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 11:07 PM

Oh, my! Censor the old playground songs. I think I first learned this one in first grade, or a very close version.
One version was Ta-ra..., Mary show us your butt today. Another verse about buggery.
Like curmudgeon, my sex education began with my earliest school days. A comic pamphlet of Popeye, Olive Oyl, Bluto and Hamburger? (Can't remember the name) doing it all in every possible position which I obtained in trade for a banana and candy was confiscated when my mother found it, but I remember my father laughing about it for a long time afterwards. I wish I had got it back. Kids are so pure and correct today.

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 05:15 PM

Well, we're talking about what to do. It will take a bit of programming to sort things out.

Dick and Susan wouldn't dream of omitting songs from the Digital Tradition because they might be objectionable for kids. However, I think that parents have the right to expect that if their children go to a site designed for kids, the material at the site should be pretty clean. So, I think we more-or-less have an obligation not to give kids direct access to bawdy songs on the Mudcat for Kids Website. One of our most memorable threads from the early days of Mudcat is Naughty Kids' Greatest Hits, but I don't think I'd put a link to it on Mudcat for Kids.


I think it's healthy for kids to learn about "naughty" stuff by coming across it in normal situations. I'd have no objection to having my 13-yr-old stepson use the Digital Tradition - if I could convince him to use it. Heck, last night, I taught him the meaning of the word "asshole."

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: curmudgeon
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 08:21 PM

Am I correct in assuming that any kid can access the DT without an ID? If this is the case, then any attempt to protect the little buggers is all in vain if they are truly curious.
Rather, change the heading to "Songs For Kids" and remove offending lyrics therefrom.
Of course, we are now obliged to define "kids." Do we have a "G" section, a "PG-13" Section.
I am not opposed to making a set of lyrics suitable for our youth to become acquainted with the tradition, but I do think it will take some time and serious discussion.
And, BTW, I will put my time where my mouth is to help in determining just which songs might not be appropriate for children.
Twenty years a teacher -- Tom

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 08:31 PM

The kids' list is here (click). If you see anything that shouldn't be on the list, let me know by personal message.
Yes, any kid can access the Digital Tradition without an ID - but I assume their parents can use filter software if they like.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 09:06 PM

Yes, it really is up to the parents to apply filtering. And since the heading is Mudcat for Kids, selection is necessary. I hate censorship, but I can see that it is necessary with that heading. Then it is up to the parent to provide guidance for the other parts of Mudcat.

Just looking through some of the As and Bs. Many of the songs on the list are from the British Isles, and will need a glossary for North American use. Examples from the first few on the list- groat, haggis bags, baabee baps, tripe, waur. Many others from songs on the first page.

Who put "Auchinlech" on the list? It has got to go. Nekkid, indeed! Also Bang, Bang, Lulu!, Be Prepared (Lehrer), lots to prune out.

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 09:38 PM

Oh please...

Compaired to the stuff on network TV, and in rap songs, that's really tame...

I'd be hard pressed to think of a kid that I know who'd even be INTERESTED in Ta-ra-ra....

I think sanmo is the one who aught to be 'taken off completely'

Ya don't like 'em, don't read 'em!

Go to a different web site... there are plenty of them out there...

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 01:02 AM

Having looked, I found nothing that is beyond my 11 yo's interest. If he can understand it, he can access it. After all, he sang "Do your balls hang low" at a recent chantey sing. He is also a contributor to the infamous Hagar Man chantey as well as writing some of his own material...of which we have heard from his teachers as well as directly from him.

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 06:12 AM

I feel that ta-ra-ra and the other slightly risque songs are likely to be rather tame compared to what most kids sing at achool with their friends. Strangely enough, when I was at primary school (half a century ago), it seemed to be the girls who knew the rude songs - some they sang in giggling little groups in the playground - and some they used as skipping songs. These days they are more likely to be singing parodies of pop songs - there's even been some sick parodies on "The Simpsons".

Most children will always enjoy "naughty" songs and stories, but will hardly admit it to their parents if they think that they will be admonished or punished. A little girl in my class at school was overheard singing a rude song by her mother and promptly told her that she'd learnt it from myself and another boy. In actual fact we'd learnt it from HER - along with some much worse ! Nobody was willing to believe that this innocent young angel would have had more bawdy knowledge than two grubby little boys - so we got the blame.

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Bagpuss
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 06:19 AM

I must have had a sheltered upbringing - the version we sang went:

Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay
The teacher pumped today
She blew the school away
We had a holiday!

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Gareth
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 07:31 AM

Hemmm ! If these are songs for Kids then some blue pencil (cursor ?) work will be required.

If these are songs sung by Kids thats another matter - Possibly a PG sticker.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 08:11 AM

This is all part of a game we play. We collect these songs from their creators and the particular culture from whence they come - in this case, kids. Then we think we ought to not let kids see them. Silly. So why do we do it?

I think it's because of appearances - adults are supposed to keep this stuff from kids. It's part of the game. I don't think the words of these songs really matter in the long run. Children aren't going to learn anything hideous from them - children created them. Maybe it's because adults feel it's like letting little Janey play with that bad kid down the street and folks are worried about influences. Once Janey has a bike and can get out of your field of vision, she IS gonna play with that 'bad' kid. Adults make rules to give the appearance of protection that are hollow, without any real reason, and are destined to be broken.

So maybe, keeping in the spirit of the game, we could just label lyrics the grownups have problems with as 'PG'. We could even have a 'PG' section with all the lyrics indexed on one page. That way, the little kids won't be exposed and kids who are ingenious enough can still find the songs - and we've made it easier to spot the really good ones - we may even increase hits by kids. All that, and we're still giving the appearance of doing the lame rule-making that some adults do. We'd still be fulfilling our role in the game, and the kids would have a lot more fun if they feel like they've found something secret.

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 11:14 AM

You,ve got the idea, Jeri. It IS a game. I've worked with kids all my life, and I've learned it's a game ya gotta play.
But I guess it is reasonable for parents to expect that we won't make it quite so easy for them to stumble across the naughty stuff.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tah Rah Rah Boomdiay (not for kids)
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 01:42 PM

Joe, don't even entertain the idea of censorship. It is a game and we adults should play by the rules, too.