Please Help with Spanish Translation

Subject: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: JedMarum
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 09:32 AM

I hate to bring this question to so public a forum, but I am sure that Mudcatters can come to my rescue.

I have written a song with a Spanish refrain and English verses. Now that I have written the melody around the rythym of Spanish refrain, some of my Spanish speaking freinds say "yeah, works fine, that's how I'd do it," and some say, that one of the repeated phrases may not be correct. Well, if it was English I could make up my own mind and claim artistic license for any discrepancies ... but in Spanish, well, I'm in much deeper water!

The song was inspired by my reading about the graveside scene of James Power, an Irish immigrant who was one of Texas's early settlers, and was indeed a major influence in the region. He married a Tex/Mexican girl and with her had a long and apparently happy life. In the refrain, he is saying, "with this kiss that says goodbye, never cry for me, my love, never mourn for me, my love - for my soul flies to God in the light of your love, on the wings of your love"

That roughly translates to this in Spanish, I hope:

Con este beso te digo adios.
Nunca llores por mi, mi amor
Nunca te lamentes por mí, mi amor

Porque mi alma vuela a Dios
En las alas de tu amor.
Sobre la luz de tu amor


Now - the question is; the couple of phrases saying 'never cry for me, my love' One friend says my language may actually be incorrect and instead of "nunca llores por mi," I should be saying "no llores nunca para mi," followed by, "no te lamentes para mi." Now I am not looking for the grammatically perfect expression; I want a more common expression.

If my friend is correct, I have a problem with the meter of the new phrase and my melody needs changing. I love the melody I have ...

So - Spanish speaking Mudcatters; please let me know your thoughts on the two phrases in question, and in fact if you see any other odd things that couldn't be covered by artistic license, please let me know.

I have to sing this on TV tomorrow and my audience will be primary Spanish language folks. I may be an idiot, but I don;t want to look like one on TV.

;-)

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 09:43 AM

Can't help with the Spanish, but I wouldnt worry too much. I find the crappy English in a lot of Europop music vastly endearing, so I'm sure it'll work the other way. If anyone criticises you, say it's Galician dialect and therefore Celtic and OK.

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: Allan C.
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 09:53 AM

I'm no expert; but I believe it is unusual to begin a phrase with nunca. What your friend offers is certainly more grammatically correct. But your question is not so much about what is absolutely proper as it is about whether what you have written sounds plausible in terms of what an average person might say. I think a native speaker could answer that much better than I.

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: JedMarum
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 09:53 AM

LOL - thanks Greg!

I may sing it as is tomorrow, and see what fall out I get. The change it later, as need be.

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: JedMarum
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 09:55 AM

You got it, Allen. Does this work within commonly spoken language - or is it OK based upon artistic license. Will people understand it without wincing too much?

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 10:48 AM

Jed, it's not unusual to start a phrase with "nunca". I am not sure your phrase is idiomatically correct for the region and time frame, but it is fine. Sing the hell out of it and see what happens.

I will see if I can reach a friend of mine who sings with a Mariachi group today and get his take on it. He is a little hard to reach.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: leprechaun
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:12 AM

How about "Para me no llores" or "Por favor no llores"

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:18 PM

Jed

Just for the heck of it, I put your words through a translation site, and it came out thus:

con este beso que dice adios,
nunca grito para mí, mi amor,
nunca llora para mí, mi amor -
para mis moscas de la alma al Dios
en la luz de su amor,
en las alas de su amor.

Allan

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: leprechaun
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:39 PM

That's funny. Are they fruit flies or horse flies?

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 03:07 PM

leprechaun

Haha - you never know, it could be trouser flies.

Sorry, Jed. Don't mean to belittle your lyrics.

Allan

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: JedMarum
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:56 PM

Ah! Good stuff, y'all.

I spent some time today with a native Spanish speaker, fluent in English and went over the story first. Didn't tell her I had questions about specifics - she loved it. She said the nunca bits at teh start of the lines were fine, in a song - and that it is commonly done (she named a few). We did changes vuela a Dios to vuela con Dios. I like the way it works beter anyway, and love the imagery.

I think I;m done. BUT, I am still refining the english!


Thanks!

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: Escamillo
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:54 AM

Sorry to be a little late. The phrases are gramatically perfect as they are, and the imagery is beautiful. The version "para mi" is incorrect. In Spanish, the concept of "for" is expressed by two words: POR means "because of" or "on behalf of", while PARA means "for the purpose of" or "intended for". Thus, if you want to say "Do never cry for me", you should say "Nunca llores por mí".

The word "nunca" at the beginning of a phrase is usual and correct.
When you need some help for Spanish lyrics or expressions, please send me a personal message because I could easily miss the thread among so many.

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: leprechaun
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:06 AM

Muchas Gracias, Andres.

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:09 AM

Thanks Andrés. The woman at the TV station told me very much the same thing, so you have given me the confidence to keep it as is. I very much appreciate your comments. The phrasing and the language now work.

I am not happy with the English verses, now though. I do have some "place holder" lyrics - but I will refine them. The song is worth the effort.

Thanks again to all. I love this place.

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:13 AM

Nunca diga El Gigante, sin aggregarle Andres Escamillo.

Mick

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:22 AM

awwww,

Come on, aren't you going to give us all they lyrics? We'd love to see them.

pax yall

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: momnopp
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:32 AM

So, Jed -- now all ya gotta do is get some coachin' on the pro-nunce-ki-AY-shun (thank you, Popeye!) and you'll be in fat city...(yeah, that was me waaay in the back of the room at O'Malley's house concert tellin' ya you sound like a gringo...:-)

Keep on doing what you're doing. Love yer show, babe!

JudyO

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:08 PM

it's OK if I sound like a gringo - I look like a gringo!

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:13 PM

CON ESTE BESO

The last rays of day light still dancing on water
The summer heat rises from Copano Bay
I know as the sun slips below the horizon
I'll not see it brighten another day

Come hold me and sit by my side for these moments
My sweet Thomasa, you've been good to me
I have done much in my lifetime for certain
But my saving grace has been your love for me

CHO:        Con este beso te digo adios.
       Nunca llores por mi, mi amor
       Nunca te lamentes por mí, mi amor

       Porque mi alma vuela a Dios
       En la luz de tu amor
       Sobre las alas de tu amor.

BRDG:        Rio Nueces to the old San Antonio
       Long may you bless my children's home

Born in the glens of the Barrow and Liffey
Near Balleygarrett on the Irish Sea
Blessed by the love of my South Texas family
My sweet Thomasa, you've been so good to me

CHO:        Con este beso te digo adios.
       Nunca llores por mi, mi amor
       Nunca te lamentes por mí, mi amor

       Porque mi alma vuela a Dios
       En la luz de tu amor
       Sobre las alas de tu amor.

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:15 PM

there is a fourth verse coming ...

Subject: RE: Please Help with Spanish Translation
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:16 PM

That is one of the best lines I have ever heard on the subject, Jed! Perfect!