St David's Day (music for March 1)

Subject: St David's Day (music)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 03:40 PM

Having just refreshed Bugelio'r Gwenith Gwyn and Hob-y-deri-dando by posting more lyrics, I thought to link them to a St David's day thread, but found there wasn't one. So with St David's Day fast approaching (March 1st) I feel there is room for a thread on Welsh songs. Feel free to post links to your favourites, or to make requests for those you can't find. I hope this will become like the St Patrick's day thread, suitable for refreshing on an annual basis. (If it doesn't get bogged down in BS!)

HWYL FAWR

Nigel

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music)
From: curmudgeon
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 03:42 PM

Translation and pronunciation, please. Thanks -- Tom

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 03:48 PM

Presumably of Hwyl Fawr: Generally used in place of "Cheers"
Pronunciation: difficult that!
Hwyl: somewhere between "Who will" and "Hoil"
Fawr: Vour ('our' as in hour)
Nigel

Subject: BS: food for March 1st
From: sian, west wales
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 04:53 PM

Just a few days until Gwyl Ddewi - St. David's Day and I'm getting my recipes out. Thought I'd just share a couple, in case anyone was thinking of celebrating. (BTW - what ever happened to the Mudcat Cook Book thread? Couldn't find it. Should be a PermaThread?)

Anyway, here are a couple of favourites.

Selsig Morgannwg (Glamorgan Sausages)

1 egg
a little very finely chopped onion
a pinch of mixed herbs (sage, thyme)
a pinch of dry mustard
5 ounces of bread crumbs
3 ounces grated cheese
pepper and salt

Divide egg yolk from white, mix all dry ingredients and bind with egg yolk. Divide into small sausages and roll in flour. Dip each into white of eggg, then roll in breadcrumbs and fry in pork fat.

I've had these served with a red onion 'marmalade' that was gorgeous … but I don't have the recipe.

Cacen Gri (griddle cake)

2 cups flour
1/2 lb butter
3/4 cup sugar
1/4 tsp salt
1 tsp baking powder
3/4 cup currants
2 small to medium eggs (beaten)

Blend flour and butter. Add sugar, salt, baking powder and currants. Add beaten eggs and a little milk if necessary to make a stiff dough (like pastry). Roll out on floured board* and cut in rounds. Bake on hot (320 degree) ungreased griddle. Cook til brown on both sides. (Watch them carefully!)

* I mix flour and white sugar.

sian, west wales

---

I moved this delicious message here from another thread on the same topic.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: food for March 1st
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 05:02 PM

Was it this one, Sian: clickety

---

I moved this message here from another thread on the same topic.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music)
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 05:43 PM

Our mom named my baby brother David because he was born on St. David's Day and each year I ask him if he put (or is it took) a leek in his hat and since I've been doing this for over fifty years it IS getting tired.

Please, some sort of song or at least other reference would surely be welcome in OUR familty! (And earn my brother's eternal gratitude!)

CB

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:46 AM

Refresh:   After 10 Mudcat-less hours, this thread could drop out too quickly!

Nigel

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: curmudgeon
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:23 AM

The sausages sound really good. Anyone know what kind of cheese? Dry breadcrumbs or fresh? Thanks -- Tom

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:34 AM

Thanks, kat, that's the one! Still think it should be a PermaThread!

Curmudgeon, I don't know much about American cheese, but I'd use something that goo's up well. In Britain, I use a mature cheddar. I use dry or fresh crumbs - whatever comes to hand. The fresh might brown a bit too fast in the oil.

Nigel, where's our 'Can y Melinydd'? I think you've already refreshed 'Hob y Deri Dando' so if anyone wants to make up any Mudcat verses ...

Haven't been able to get into Mudcat all day (has it been down?) I'll see what I can find to add tonight...

siân

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:02 PM

Siân:Cân y Melinydd
Nigel

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:26 PM

Well, I did an @Welsh search in the DigiTrad and there are a few good 'uns. (I've always liked Llwyn Onn) But - oh! - can something be done about Counting the Goats? It's a bit insulting to only have the phonetics (and those aren't very good!) and not the original. So ...

1. Oes gafr eto? Oes, heb ei godro?
Ar y creigiau geirwon mae'r hen afr yn crwydro.

Gafr wen, wen, wen,
Ie, finwen, finwen, finwen,
Foel gynffonwen, foel gynffonwen,
Ystlys wen a chynffon: wen, wen, wen

2. Oes gafr eto? Oes, heb ei godro?
Ar y creigiau geirwon mae'r hen afr yn crwydro.

Gafr ddu, ddu, ddu,
Ie, finddu, finddu, finddu,
Foel gynffonddu, foel gynffonddu,
Ystlys ddu a chynffon: ddu, ddu, ddu
(faster then...)
Gafr wen, wen, wen,
Ie, finwen, finwen, finwen,
Foel gynffonwen, foel gynffonwen,
Ystlys wen a chynffon: wen, wen, wen

3. Oes gafr eto? Oes, heb ei godro?
Ar y creigiau geirwon mae'r hen afr yn crwydro.

Gafr pinc, pinc, pinc,
Ie, finbinc, finbinc, finbinc,
Foel gynffonbinc, foel gynffonbinc,
Ystlys binc a chynffon: pinc, pinc, pinc.
(and faster)
Gafr ddu, ddu, ddu,
Ie, finddu, finddu, finddu,
Foel gynffonddu, foel gynffonddu,
Ystlys ddu a chynffon: ddu, ddu, ddu
(faster then...)
Gafr wen, wen, wen,
Ie, finwen, finwen, finwen,
Foel gynffonwen, foel gynffonwen,
Ystlys wen a chynffon: wen, wen, wen.

There are something like 17 different counting the goats song - and I think I like this the least, but probably only because it's so ubiquitous. Anyway ... I happen to have an ENGLISH translation!

1. Is a goat hiding? One that needs milking?
Off among the craggy rocks and old goat is wandering.

Goatie white, white, white,
Yes, a white one, white one, white one,
Little white one, little white one,
Whitey goat with bob tail: white white white

2. Is a goat hiding? One that needs milking?
Off among the craggy rocks and old goat is wandering.

Goatie black, black, black,
Yes, a black one, black one, black one,
Little black one, little black one,
Blackie goat with bob tail: black, black, black
(and faster ...)
Goatie white, white, white,
Yes, a white one, white one, white one,
Little white one, little white one,
Whitey goat with bob tail: white white white

3. Is a goat hiding? One that needs milking?
Off among the craggy rocks and old goat is wandering.

Goatie white, white white,
Yes, a white one, white one, white one,
Little white one, little white one,
Whitie goat with bob tail: white, white, white
(faster ...)
Goatie black, black, black,
Yes, a black one, black one, black one,
Little black one, little black one,
Blackie goat with bob tail: black, black, black
(and faster ...)
Goatie white, white, white,
Yes, a white one, white one, white one,
Little white one, little white one,
Whitey goat with bob tail: white white white

Well - there's one anyway!

sian

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: breezy
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 05:13 PM

forget the translations and 'goatie' it is not
'White goat goat goat' would be right but it doesnt scan in English cos the adjective follows the noun in Welsh.
Apart from that it makes the song look pathetic for grown-ups
Me mam and dad taught it me when I was a bachgen bach if thats how you spell it being illiterate in my mother tongue and questioning the real value in teaching welsh to non-welsh natives.!!!
Didnt the team do better against the English, its not all doom and gloom.Bring back the passion.
Nos da
Gwyl Dewi Sant
Mary Humphries better have a song sorted for Friday at the Comfort Hotel St Albans for her gig with Anahata

Subject: Lyr Add: Oes Gafr Eto?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:53 AM

Lyrics added by Siân 27 Feb 03 - 04:26 PM

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: treewind
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:43 AM

Breezy - no problem with Welsh song or two tonight.

At Islington last night she actually got a request in the interval to do a Welsh Song, so we started the second half with Gwydr Glas which is quite digestible to any audience because she's added verses of her own English translation (cleverly mimicking the Welsh internal rhyming scemes in the English version) - you'll hear tonight!

Mary could do a whole set of songs in Welsh but be warned she might put you on the spot by asking for a translation, just to see if you can....

See you later
Anahata

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:44 PM

Yeh - I didn't like the Goatie either. Maybe "white goat, white, white, white" would work.

But full marks to anyone, anywhere, who learns Welsh - or any other language, particularly the minority ones. Bless 'em all.

sian

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: fsharpdim7
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 05:52 PM

S'mae - There's a group of us here in Old Chicago learning Cymraeg. Since I'm just starting, I need to hear some of these songs sung slowly. If any of you have some legal mp3 versions, preferably solos, of Welsh folk songs, could you post them on Welsh Taditional Music or some other site?
Diolch yn fawr, Chris in Chicago

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:17 AM

I got interested in Welsh music about 12 years ago, through a friend who plays harp. I've been collecting little books of old tunes since then.

When I looked at web sites that had Welsh folk tunes, almost all the pieces are lyrical love tunes that sound a lot like hymns. However, there was lively dance music in the olden days, and if you are interested in Welsh music, it would be good to add some to your collection. I did find Llanover welsh reel on the web and Gwcw bach (fach?) (vach?) I forget how it was spelled! Another was the Bishop of Bangor's jig. Look for them.

Still, there are many other good tunes to be found if you go to gymanfas and cruise the booths. Also, if you cross paths with Robin Huw Bowen, he sells delightful little books of old tunes.

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:59 AM

For many, many years now, I've longed to compile a Welsh songbook, but have been restrained by my sensible friends. Title? "Take a Leek..."

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 03:30 PM

I'm pretty low tech, so I'm afraid I can't help with MP3s or anything. I would think that there are still people around Chicago who could drop in to your class and teach you some songs. Seems to me there used to be a Welsh chapel in Chicago; a friend of my family was the minister there some years ago.

leeneia is right about there being a lot of good Welsh dance music. There are two particular books published by the Welsh folk dance society, Cymdeithas Dawnsio Gwerin - Blodau'r Grug and Cadw Twmpath - 100 tunes in each.

leeneia also has a point about hymn tunes ... but that's largely because the great Welsh hymnists used a LOT of folk tunes for their hymns, and used the folk meters even more. I might suggest writing to Sain Records and asking which of their CDs come with booklets with words - that's a good way of learning. Or from the books published by Cymdeithas Alawon Gwerin (Welsh Folk Song Soc.). The Soc. is supposed to be publishing a catalogue of all available publications. If and when they do, I'll mention it on Mudcat.

sian

Subject: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: fsharpdim7
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 12:20 PM

We had a great St. David's Day dinner in Chicago. We sang Calon Lan, Hen Wlad, and others. I am hoping to learn some other songs by next year. My problem is not in finding songs in books or on cd's. My concern is that my pronunciation will not be correct. I have used a slow-down program for learning tunes. I guess I'll have to try it for learning the Welsh words - that should produce an interesting accent!   

Thanks for all the responses - good to know you are out there.
Chris

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 04:28 PM

fsharp, I suppose you're in touch with Cymdeithas Madog but, just in case you aren't, look here . They may know some Welsh speakers in your area. That's still the best way to check your pronunciation. Also LISTEN to Welsh speach as much as possible; the BBC Cymru a'r Byd pages should help. Cadences are very important.

Been there. Done that.
sian

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:42 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:46 AM

Happy St. David's Day!

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: pavane
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 07:45 AM

Played a few Welsh tunes on Saturday, including Llanover reel (Which in my sheet music lists a composer) and Glandyfi. But we are never sure HOW Welsh they are. Calch Gwyn Morgannwg, for example, is almost identical to White Joke (Joak?), and Ty Coch Caerdydd is part of a family going back hundreds of years.

(Incidentally I found myself driving through Llanover last week, when I missed my turning onto the A40 at Raglan, and had to detour. Never been there before, assuming it is the same one)

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:49 PM

St. David's Day, Chicago, March 1, 2004 -
We had a great dinner yesterday attended by well over 80 (attendance and unfortunately age-wise) plus Gwyn Hughes-Jones, the great Welsh tenor, performing as Pinkerton in Butterfly here at the Lyric Opera. Myself and 3 others performed - Y Chwarelwr, Arglwydd Dyma Fi, Calon Lan, Lleucu Llwyd, Ifan Pant Y Fedwen, Yma o Hyd, and wrth gwrs all 3 verses of Hen Wlad. Some of the audience were even awake at the end of the performance, or maybe it was the sound of the bar reopening that aided the applause.
Our group is Yr Chwarelwyr ac Un (for the young lady Music Major who foolishly agreed to get on stage with us). We are available for bookings at Eisteddfodau and Gymanfas. Pictures and press material available on request. Adulation freely accepted.
Chris yn Wheaton

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: GUEST,andrew powell
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 08:58 PM

yma o hyd hey taff is from wales

Subject: RE: St David's Day (music for March 1)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 04:30 AM

Gwyl Ddewi Hapus i bawb! Happy St David's Day, everyone!

Off to hear Lynne Denman sing on the town square later, then a bowl of cawl for lunch. As Dewi said, "Do the little things..."

sian