Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Bloke in the Corner
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 01:08 PM

Bloke will certainly be there, in the corner probably. God, how predictable he is becoming.
Apart from that, the Crown & Anchor was a very good session last night, lovely singing and music, I'll be happy to put it on my monthly schedule.
Hope to see plenty of you all tonight

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: daithi
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 09:11 AM

Yes Deanmeister - It was I playing a bit of whistle at the Crown & Anchor.And you were in fine voice yourself, if I may venture my opinion... Dáithí

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 07:51 AM

Did we meet last night, Daithi?

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 04:50 AM

The wombat will be incapcitated due to tooth extraction this afternoon and I'm still in dock with bad back. My apologies to all.
In addition it is quite a way from Huddersfield for a session!!
Good Luck tonight if you have a visitation

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: daithi
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 04:41 AM

Apologies from me too - can't make tonight (still recovering from last week's TV appearance)but will be along next week I hope. (Got my fix this week though at the Newport session)best wishes - Dáithí

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:29 AM

Don't forget you membership cards!!! Sorry I won't be there as at the workhouse. Have a good time everyone.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:56 AM

Judging by past form there could well be a raid tonight - won't they be supprised to find the doors closed against them. Remember to come along members and guests!

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 01:32 PM

I sent Jeremy Taylor an email asking if I could have his chords for Jobsworth as I intended to regale our friend from the council with it.
He kindly relpied and gave us the message of Good Luck Give 'em hell!!
What a good chap eh?
Chords for those who want to know I've posted on the Jobsworth thread, like Harvey Andrews said on one thread, a song not sung is a dead song and this one is a cracker

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 08:02 AM

Just spoken to Gill of 'The Sloop' who thought the LookNorth bit was ace. There should be a piece in the Scunthorpe Telegraph tomorrow night. She's heard absolutely nothing from the council/fire brigade/health-safety inspectors/communicable diseases control centre,so as far as she's concerned it's still every Tuesday night. It'll run in the same format, pub closed to anyone who isn't a member but as we can all sign in two guests for the evening all folkies will be most welcome.
I shan't be there next week as on dreaded nights in the lovely HRI but I hope it will be as good as this weeks.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 06:27 PM

I thought my left foot was syncopating wonderfully, plus the sexy button work at the start of the piece. Toe curling, from a personal viewpoint, we looked like the Wurzels.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Oaklet
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 02:46 PM

The article about the traffic in Hull was very enlightening though, Sireen. And beautfully lit.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 01:29 PM

Just watched it- pretty good! Nice to see familiar faces on TV, and well-expressed opinions, even if it wasn't very seriously dealt with.

If anyone else gets the chance to see it before it gets taken off, the relevant piece is about 2/3 way through the prog- save you wading through the rest of the local news.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 05:32 AM

Can some kind soul make and post a transcription here before it gets replaced?

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 05:17 AM

U have to look before the next show apparently, as that will automatically erase the last one.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 04:57 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/looknorthhull/ Click on 1830 North East edition to view last night's programme. Not a bad article I thought.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 04:27 AM

Yes and you were on it Raggytash. with Sound bites from Karen, ET and chap from Manchester, plus all of us playing, it was quite good really apart from the tit of a presenter (not the bloke who came to the session) making some comment about saying nothing about folk music or he'll be in trouble.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,KJ
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 03:47 AM

Yes

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 03:40 AM

Well, did BBC Humberside give any coveage to the debacle over live music at the Sloop last night?

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 02:10 PM

Maybe we could have a protest session about the axing of Henry Ayrton's show. Laurie, if you don't get any more exciting offers we wouldn't mind a ride to Newport, share the bridge fees.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 01:06 PM

Is this Newport Near Howden off the M62. Or Monmouth?

It was a bloody good session last night but I hoped that if it had been a club I could raise a point of order and limit music to 120 bpm or fine anyone for exceeding this since I can't keep up.

Just a reminder that Gill promises this every Tuesday, close down to public and members only.

Cheers

Eric

PS have a hard copy (200 pages of Hansard report on the debate in Parliament on this bill. more interesting than it sounds, except Howells bit which was miserable and made no reference to all the protests about acoustic music. Anyone wanting a copy, free, send me a message and a snail mail address - too big to e-mail and would bust your printer printing it.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,The Bloke in the Corner
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 06:26 AM

Yes, yes, to all the above. We really must find something else to protest about really soon!
Gill the landlady deserved - and got - our thanks last night, all those who came are SOOOO welcome every Tuesday night, not all sessions are as full at that one, but we have some real good ones, if a little smaller.
Newport looks good, I'll be able to take three people from the Barton area. Let's do it ALL AGAIN!

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 06:19 AM

Where's Newport?

Gerry

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 05:14 AM

Ooooooh my aching head, I'm only looking for sympathy - yes I know it's in the dictionary between shit & syphilis!! However I think I will have recovered enough to drag my long-suffering husband to the Newport session.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:45 AM

May I draw everybody's attention to the Session that Bill Sables has organised at the Crown and Anchor at Newport next Monday, 31st March, 8.30 pm. It has been organised with the intention of uniting the musicians from the Goole/Selby area with the Hull/Lincs people, and promises to be a wonderful night. If it's anything like the fantastic evening at the Sloop last night, it'll be ace. Hope to see you all there!

Keep Music Live.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:28 AM

You weren't drinking that orrible halcoholic stuff were you, KJ? Shame on you. What a wonderful night, wasn't it? I may have to venture across the water into deepest lincs more often, if only to hear you sing...x Did you get the lowdown on monday session in Newport?

Raggy, I'll pm the chords across when I wake up and remember what they are!

Cheers, Pete.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:17 AM

Oooooooooh don't mention the A H, I haven't got that bloody tune out of my head all night.Still I must applaud the verve & vitality of the rendition, I thought skipjack's arms were going to fall off!!

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:11 AM

Ooooooooh my aching head,this solacing stuff is not so good the day after!! Still a mild hangover is a reasonable price to pay for the wonderful session last night. I must admit to feeling slightly queasy whenever I think about that reporter's tie, the stuff of nightmares!!
'twas really good, can we have some more protest sessions please

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: bill\sables
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:06 AM

It was a bloddy good session last night.
It sort of looked like the days of prohibition in the USA. When we arrived there were musicians in various guises all carring instruments disguised in machene gun cases. The door was closed with a notice of a private party posted, but you could get in if you said to the doorman "John from Hull sent me"
The first half hour seemed to be dedicated to the "Athol Highlanders" which was played over and over again for the benifit of the BBC. It was good to see so many Mudcat members in one place.
Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 03:39 AM

Well what a good do, good to see so many committed people............. or is that people who should be committed .....................
I will not received the same version of Look North as you do so a report would be interesting, although Ossenflags may remember to tape it for me
We will try yet again to post some piccys on this thread but steam driven computer doesn't like them.
Finally,Deanmeister I would like definative chords to Jobsworth if you have them.
Ta Raggytash

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 08:28 PM

John I said a more sober person - you are ruled out by default cos I recon your as nuet as a pissed as I am! :-) hic

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 08:14 PM

9

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 08:04 PM

Oakley don't be silly it wasn't Colin Thompson we know that it was your nemisis Mr Winston Whats-his-face!

T'was a great session loads o support from catters and the BBC was thur filming an interviewing and we should be on Look North the morrow mornings night.

I'm sure a mnore ober person could be found to give a better report on the night.. I can only say I had a brilliant time!

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Oaklet
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 07:36 PM

Colin Thompson told them about the glass

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 06:50 PM

heloo, i just get back from the sloop, it was really nice and a good sessuin , but tgis goverment is a big load of shit, they making si;lly roules about doors etc, why dont they piss off and misd there one bisinrss.this is my iopimion.john

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,The Bloke in the Corner
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 01:53 PM

LATEST BREAKING NEWS! PLENTY OF ROOM FOR ALL AT THE SLOOP TONIGHT! DON'T BE AFRAID TO COME, THE PUB IS ALL OURS!The madness goes on, but it might all be for the good. The licensing person said the frosted glass door was OK, BUT then the building department (wonder who told them??) came this afternoon and said the glass in the door had to be clear 'as otherwise the people inside would not be able to see a fire developing' (sic) Whoops, that's it then - but NO IT ISN'T! In a stroke of genius, courage and support for us folkies, Gill is CLOSING the pub to the public and for tonight making it a private folk club. Members may sign in guests, of course, so there is no problem with numbers as we have the whole pub to ourselves. Let's make sure that, whatever happens afterwards, we al show Gill and Tony how much we appreciate their support. P.S. There is a rumour of Look North being interested in coming.....bring an instrument and make thsi a night to remember.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 12:01 PM

I hate incorrect punctuation. Sorry Oakley, it wasn't deliberate. The grocer in me slipped out for a minute.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 11:59 AM

Nah, think I'll give tonight a miss. Wednesday's sound more like my thing. Can I bring my special instrument case....?

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 09:41 AM

Just been taking some solace in the sloop (day off!!)& Gill is all geared up for tonight. We have to fill out a membership form, so BRING A PEN as well as your good selves & various musical implements.Apparently if we are a club we are supposed to have an agenda, can I suggest solacing ourselves with our instruments in an entirely impromptu manner? We are also supposed to keep minutes...anyone got a mini-disc or tape recorder? Gill & I thought it may be a good idea to start other clubs for example 'The Sloop Wednesday Orgy Club'- rubber & manacles optional!!
PS Dean can I get a request in for Brave Wolfe?

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 06:26 AM

thanks mick, see you tonight.john

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 06:07 AM

Karen, that last post sums up my feelings on the subject completely. Wonderful. I shall try that the next time hear a jukebox!!!! See u tonight.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 05:44 AM

The problem with the private members club route is that you will have to have memberships and exclude casual members of the public.

It is this way around the PEL requirement that causes the authorities the most concern and has been the subject of many undercover visits (or entrapments).

As the wish of the partipants and the licensees is not to exclude the public, perhaps a more constructive route can be taken? Perhaps an appeal from all parties to local councillors to allow the event to continue as it is, until a meeting can be arranged to find a solution?

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 05:02 AM

Will do Tony. I don't think there will be any membership subscriptions or lots of rules & regulations. The agenda is that we are there to play music & meet up with friends old & new. The only rule is that one must participate with some sort of musical instrument or voice. We've only set ourselves up as a 'club' because that is what we were advised to do by the first council official, as a way of getting round this stupid law & the silly,narrow-minded plonkers that have complained to the council. After all the landlord is not making zillions by having us there, we probably put more customers off than attract them in!! What we're protesting about is the fact that like other people we go to a pub to socialise but we don't play pool, darts or dominoes, we gather & attempt to produce something vaguely musical. I could understand it if we were loud enough to disturb the whole neighbourhood but we only disturb the regulars of the pub & they are used to it (probably all deaf!!) May be we all ought to complain to the council every time we walk into a plastic pub with a loud jukebox playing commercial shite.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Fossil
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 04:25 AM

Dear All involved in the Mother of All Sessions -

Unfortunately, my current parlous financial situation won't allow me to cross the Channel to add my twangs to the assorted Noises Off/Off Noises Against the Council, but I'll be with you in spirit. Please add my name, Tony Fuell, to the membership list and (if there is one) advise me on the subscription to pay. And don't forget that the assorted Mudcatters will be expecting a full report!

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,ossonflags
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 02:18 AM

John,there is room in the punchmobile.Report to the mcgarry residence before 7.15pm this evening.Any one else in 'ull wanting to come there is still some room.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 05:04 PM

Interesting and I agree, its not a question of jobsworth doing their duty. Usually they act on complaints, often from other Pubs that have spent money on PELs. The other problem is that councils don't go for musicians, they go for the Landlord. In this case an absent landlord so they would go for the licensee, who is an employee and not in a position to risk anything or spend money. And often in a prosecution in a magistrates court only the council has unlimited funds and a solicitor, not the licensee. And since the case can only be heard before Magistrates there is no precendent set for other courts. Appeals on a point of law are by way of case stated to the high court. It needs someone with both conviction and money to take this. This is why local authorities, who have no convictions, other than that of the licensee, but plenty of money, take nonesense like, 2 then 2 then 2 equals 6 in a bar.

The idea of tomorrow is to obtain some good publicity by being jammed in a small room as a club, playing to ourselves in a way that cannot be enjoyed by the rest of the pub, usually a bloke watching TV in a far room anyway. BBC considering whether to send a camera man but not rung back to say if they will or not. they would if they were certain PEL person was turning up!

The issue of entertaining others has already been raised with this lady. She says whatever others might say she was entertained. Not seductively it seems to go away and consider some more important issue.

I have written to my MP (not a labour man) saying that many many musicians are disillusioned with new labour over this issue. Hope everyone who signed the petition have also written to their MP? Think Fax your MP had concked out last night but try it.

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Trevor Gilson
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 03:06 PM

Can we please get rid of this idea that Council Officers are 'only doing their duty' when these things happen. As 'Shambles' and Hamish have pointed out, the law is at best ambiguous and a considered legal opinion is that a 'proper' Court Case would very probably go against the Council, so long as the musicians were unpaid and also not specifically invited in by the licensee. Unfortunately a Magistrates Court would most likely uphold the Council rather than the Law, being lay people and frightened to express a legal opinion in the face of the contrary opinion expressed by a Council Solicitor. Only in a Higher Court or at Appeal is a valid outcome likely - note the recent case of R (Ashbrook) v East Sussex County Council which had to go to Appeal (I am sure you saw the pictures of Kate Ashbrook wielding the giant snips preparatory to opening up the footpath on which the Council had so long deferred action, in the face of criminal activity culminating in manslaughter).

Sadly, both Shambles and I believe we have been lied to when it suited a Council Officer's purposes to do so. We are not sure some of them understand what truth is.
Can we please get rid of this idea that Council Officers are 'only doing their duty' when these things happen. As 'Shambles' and Hamish have pointed out, the law is at best ambiguous and a considered legal opinion is that a 'proper' Court Case would very probably go against the Council, so long as the musicians were unpaid and also not specifically invited in by the licensee. Unfortunately a Magistrates Court would most likely uphold the Council rather than the Law, being lay people and frightened to express a legal opinion in the face of the contrary opinion expressed by a Council Solicitor. Only in a Higher Court or at Appeal is a valid outcome likely - note the recent case of R (Ashbrook) v East Sussex County Council which had to go to Appeal (I am sure you saw the pictures of Kate Ashbrook wielding the giant snips preparatory to opening up the footpath on which the Council had so long deferred action, in the face of criminal activity culminating in manslaughter).

Sadly, both Shambles and I believe we have been lied to when it suited a Council Officer's purposes to do so. We are not sure some of them understand what truth is.
[e-mail]
web.onetel.net.uk/~trevorgilson

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:30 PM

You'll find me at the turnstile at the zoo,
Or outside the Roxy marshalling the queue.
If you turn up late, when I'm on the gate,
Don't expect me to let me through........

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Pied Piper
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:02 PM

I'm not shore I can make it but good luck.

"It's because o't Magna charter what were signed by't Barrons of old,
that we English can do what we want to; as long as we do what we're told"

PP

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:50 AM

Does anyone know Shuberts Impromptu in B flat. Playing that might satisfy the need for impromptu music.

Spoke to BBC Look North today. They are considering whether of not to attend. Thanks to Gregg for introduc

Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:56 AM

Is there any spare seats left in the punchmobile Mick?
KJ-Please add me to your list as well, 9John Evans).