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BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: bflat Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:00 PM He was amazing. He dedicated himself with his unprecedented training regime to overcoming age; a new tour designed to work against him; and unruly fans wishing to derail him. Congratulations to a champion. Ellen |
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Subject: maillot jaune From: GUEST Date: 27 Jul 04 - 04:44 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: GUEST,twowheeler Date: 26 Jul 04 - 04:17 PM Big Mick: Right On!!! Wolfgang: You still don't know what you're talking about. His burst to the lead was to aid THE SIX RIDERS THAT SIMEONI WAS ATTEMPTING TO ATTACK - IN VIOLATION OF YOUR PRECIOUS UNWRITTEN RULES. Again, I heed Bill OReilly's advice... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Big Mick Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:00 PM Sorry, Wolfgang, but I disagree mightily. I think Armstrong's motivations were crystal clear and well uttered beforehand. Every one I know, including this fan of Armstrong, pretty well agreed that he had almost no chance of pulling off a sixth win. The world was gunning for him, the course was set to defeat him, and the inevitable cheap shot enviers were all about. Lance said from the beginning that not only would he attempt to win, but he would do everything in his power to do it hugely. He didn't want any doubt that he was the legitimate champ, and further he wanted it to be from full effort in the stages. The only time he let up was in the final stage, and that was tactical. My Grandmother always said that what one is speaks louder than what one says s/he is. Lance Armstrong showed himself to have the heart of a lion, and his teammates showed themselves to be worthy of that distinction. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:32 PM Yes and no, Johnny. (1) Yes, for to many cyclists the Tour is a succession of day events, where you have to enter each day event to be allowed to continue competing. The sprinters hate the mountain stages. They have no chance of winning and it is awful for them. Others are not good enough in the sprints but could take one stage with a small group making an escape from the peloton. They too don't go for the overall ranking on time for they are not good enough for that. For them, the Tour is a succession of single day races in which they are without chances in most stages. The wait for their moment of fame in this Tour or the next or never... For all of them is valid and accepted that they do all they can to win a stage (2) No, for there are cyclists in the Tour who go for the ultimate challenge that is to be the best on overall time. For them the stages are stages and only one result really counts: the final standing in Paris. These few, foremost among them Armstrong, are expected to respect the wishes of those for whom the win of a stage is the most that they can expect from the Tour. They are only expected to fight for the win of a stage if that is unavoidable for the big aim. Therefore nobody blamed Armstrong for taking laast year the victory away from some poor devil he did overtake shortly before the finish line for that was necessary for his win. (BTW, the time trials are excepted as well: anybody does his best) For those few, the unwritten rules are different. Giving away a stage is similar to a tennis player giving away one point when he thought the referee has made a bad call. Unwritten that too. BTW, the big ones also profit from unwritten rules: There is always a big and sometimes dangerous struggle in the field for the best positions, near to the front of the peloton, but never exposed. These fights can be very nasty, but those who can win the Tour are exempted from these fights. If a poor devil has a puncture He'll be at the end of the peloton often with littel chances to find a good position. If a big one has the same mishap the peloton opens for him to come up front. These are those little rules of give and take. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 26 Jul 04 - 12:26 PM Wolfgang, I agree with you about injured players in football, where the 'unwritten rule' exists for the well-being and early treatment of the injured player, but that's not the same thing as match-fixing by deliberately not winning. Maybe I was unclear in my first post - surely the essential essence of sport is that competitors - all competitors - are there to win and make every effort to do so? Or am I being too simplistic? :0) Johnny :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Bill D Date: 26 Jul 04 - 12:00 PM from what I was able to understand, Simeoni was doing more than just trying to get some attention....he seemed to have an agenda that was personal/political in nature about doping charges. When he tried to join that attack, I think it was the OTHER riders in the lead group who made it clear that Simeoni was not 'welcome' under those conditions. It is a matter of opinion what Armstrong's motives were. Simeoni seems to have decided, and is SUEING Armstong !...over a tactical manuver? *tsk* It is too bad that issues other than "who's the best rider and team?" have to enter the race, but it is a perpetual problem. Lance has been generous and not greedy in many other stages over the last few years, allowing others to win stages he might have taken, so I wonder if there is not more to the Simeoni incident than we understand. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Blackcatter Date: 26 Jul 04 - 11:17 AM You're porbably right Wolfgang, but the last few days were pretty tough for Armstrong. First of all, the Tour organizers publicly stated that this year's course was specifically designed to beat Armstrong. Talk about unsportsman like behavior. Add to that the stupid "fans" who he's had to littereally push away from him while he's racing, who have spit on him and who have yelled obscenities. Add to that Greg Lomond's pissy and envoius (I my opinon) statements about Armstrong being on drugs - so Armstrong is even getting attacked by the only other American biker that 90% of Americans have ever heard of. Lance was a model of restraint in my mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 26 Jul 04 - 09:34 AM Johnny, that's not a good comparison for what Ferrari did was within the written rules but it was extremely unfair according to the unwritten rules. Sports are full with unwritten rules. In football, for instance, when a player lies injured on the ground, most times even the opposite team will play the ball off the field to cause an interruption for treatment of injuries. Everybody then expects the other team to play the ball off the field too. They don't have to, of course, but it is expected. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 26 Jul 04 - 09:08 AM Deliberately holding back so someone else wins sounds like match-fixing to me. If he could win the stage, he was right to do so. There's no room in sport for 'unwritten rules' Wolfgang - they result in cheating. Look at the furore in Formula 1 when Ferrari cheated by telling Barrichello to let your countryman Schumaker pass him to win. A shameful episode. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: GUEST,twowheeler Date: 26 Jul 04 - 08:45 AM wolfgang: Armstrong did exactly the right thing on every stage of the race, which you would have realized if you were at all knowledgeable about the Tour. Since you obviously aren't, take Bill O'Rilley's advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:57 AM Armstrong has done it but he has lost a couple of fans including me in the last couple of days. He appears as a great athlete but as a smallminded and meanspirited man. With the exception of Merckx, the former quintuple champions have been generous and forgiving in their victories. One of the unwritten rules is that the man with the yellow jersey doesn't go for stage victories unless there are still doubts about his overall victory. Taking away a stage victory from Klöden for whom that would have been his first victory doesn't show the man Armstrong being as great as the athlete. It is true that on the day before, on the ascent to Alpe d'Huez, German spectators have been mean, nasty and annoying to Armstrong. That's very bad behaviour no real fans of cycling agrees with. But to take revenge on a German cyclist who never had anything but words of praise for Armstrong is bad sportsmanship. What he has done to Simeoni on the third last stage is even worse. Simeoni is one of those many cyclists who are always struggling to find a team (any money) for one more season. Never god enough tzo be more than a helper. One of the few possibilities for such a man to advertise his abilities to scouts for other teams is to pull away from the peloton with some similar minded and perhaps to win a stage or at least to make a little show of strength for some dozen miles before falling back to the peloton. When Simeoni was trying to do that Armstrong himself was joining Simeoni in order to make any pulling away impossible for Simeoni. Any pulling away with the yellow jersey trailing behind is doomed for nobody can let the leader of the field win even more seconds. So, dutifully T-Mobile had to increase the speed of the Peloton and Simeoni had to give up with a smugly grinning Armstrong falling back to his place in the field. Simeoni was the man who had accused Ferrari of being involved in doping. Though the actual incrimination didn't involve Armstrong, Ferrari had been a team helper for Armstrong. Armstrong had not forgotten that and had made clear to the world of cycling that as long as he could prevent it Simeoni would not have even the smallest little success. In a minor act of defiance, on the last stage Simeoni made another attack without really trying seriously (a win in Paris is so prestigious that any attack on the last stage will be without success. Simeoni has been elected most agressive cyclist for the last stage an act which hpoefully has not been completely lost on Armstrong. Another big disappointment for me is Ullrich. I'm fed up with him telling each year that this year his preparation is better than ever and that he'll really try to win this time. Each time, he doesn't enough during the winter and comes back overweight and in bad shape in the spring. He makes a few races and mostly gives them up being unable to follow even a medium speed. Then he exercises a bit in Mallorca (good weather and good streets) and comes to the Tour in better shape but not in best shape. He always needs the first week to struggle to find his best form and blames lack of success to bad weather and ill health. If he'd do a preparation similar to Armstrong (who goes the big mountains up and down even in the worst of weather) or even only similar to other German cyclists with somewhat less of ability he would start the Tour in the shape he normally only has at the end of it and he'd not moan each time again about the bad weather as if bad weather in the mountains of France would be a big surprise. He is a talent wasted. I'm not sure if he could beat Armstrong when in better shape but at least it would be a much more interesting competition. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Benjamin Date: 22 Jul 04 - 04:53 PM On a sadder note today, Roberto did not start the stage. I guess he never made a full recovery as he wasn't able to keep up on the climbs where he'd normally be attacking. There's always next year, and the Vuelta. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: GUEST,Blackcatter Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:43 PM I hope he does. I miss being able to watch this year. Had cable last year but not now. Tried to listen to OLN's streaming audio, but listening to a bike race is pretty boring. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Big Mick Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:06 PM Armstrong had one of the most amazing finishes today that I have ever seen. His teammate, Landis, had set this amazing pace and maintained it throughout this stage. Landis should be nicknamed "Lionheart". I was completely blown away by his courageous performance. I have always admired Jan Ullrich as a bear of a man with amazing strength. Yet Landis set a pace that kept Ullrich strictly in the position of trying to maintain position. When it came time for a move, Ullrich didn't have enough left to do it. Armstrong tried to push Landis to the stage win, but Landis (understandably) didn't have enough left. Then one of Ullrich's teammates made a move that looked insurmountable. Armstrong put on an incredible run, and managed to overcome this all but insurmountable lead to win by a nose. It was an amazing show. The scary thing is he looks strong enough to do this again next year. Wow!!! Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: GUEST Date: 21 Jul 04 - 08:40 PM It is only a matter of time until some important race is ruined by injury to a major rider caused by ridiculous fans. I believe it has happened before in some smaller races. And of course, last year's Tour saw Armstrong yanked off his bike by an idiot with a plastic bag. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Bill D Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:52 PM to go back to my earlier post, Armstrong said in a post-race interview today that the crowds on the climb today were very scary in some places. He managed to be diplomatic and not condemn 'enthusiasm', but made it clear that he'd like to see some restraints on flag waving idiots who drink all day, then jump in the middle of the course to 'cheer' their favorites. It is only a matter of time until some important race is ruined by injury to a major rider caused by ridiculous fans.. In the meantime, it does look like the race is now for 2nd & 3rd..etc, and Klöden is being quite impressive! (And it will be very interesting in future years if Voeckler improves his pedaling style and gets with a good team, hmmm?) (the boy wastes enough energy going from side to side to move him up several places..) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: bflat Date: 21 Jul 04 - 06:17 PM A picture of Lance Armstrong receiving a congratulatory kiss from Cheryl Crow appeared in the NYTimes today. Does this post qualify the thread for the non-BS section? I'd guess they are making music. I hope he has much success this weekend. Ellen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: artbrooks Date: 21 Jul 04 - 03:40 PM Well, maybe...but he and the team already have a sponsor for at least the next two years...the Discovery Channel! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 21 Jul 04 - 03:04 PM Armstrong has won the uphill time trial before Ullrich and Klöden. His sixth victory seems undisputed now but for a major accident. The fight for second place can still be interesting. I see Klöden now as the most likely of the two Gedrmans to make the podium. I'd say he'll be seond in the end (he is now third, behind Basso). Speaking about Armstrong and what else he could if he tried: He is second now in the mountain points competition without having really tried to go for these points. He only tokk what was unavoidable to take in order to go for the yellow jersey. In the green jersey competition of the sprinter he is now 9th though he always has tried to stay clear of all sprints. That too were only the points he got when going for his main aim. He'll fall back in the sprinters competition in the last days, for he'd be crazy to risk the yellow jersey in one of the coming sprints. He'll declare the end of his carreer when in Paris I guess. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 18 Jul 04 - 11:31 AM Dangers of road cycling from motor vehicles: Cyclist crushed to death in Iowa 43 year-old Iowan resident and avid cyclist, David L. Holmes, was crushed to death while out training last Wednesday, July 14. According to Kim West from Des Moines, Iowa, Holmes was out on a routine training ride that took him through a highway construction zone. A pilot vehicle - hired by the construction company to safely lead vehicles through the single-lane zone one direction at a time - passed him while he rode his bike through the zone; after the pilot vehicle passed, a semi-truck and trailer also overtook Holmes, and reportedly cut back over too soon, crushing the cyclist with its rear wheels. West has said the local newspapers have made it sound like Holmes 'lost control' of his bike. "Not hard to do when a semi is crushing you," he wrote in an email to Cyclingnews. "David was married in April of this year. He did Paris-Brest-Paris in the past, and organized many races in and around Iowa. We miss him already." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 17 Jul 04 - 08:26 PM Twenty-two seconds behind !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Benjamin Date: 17 Jul 04 - 05:07 PM Yeah, but I'm still a fan of the Spanish riders, Heras and Mayo in particular. Liberty is way too strong of a team to be collectively riding so poorly. But hey, we still have the Vuelta. Heras is always stronger then. At least the season isn't over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Bill D Date: 17 Jul 04 - 02:58 PM missed today...what happened to Hamilton? He was doing pretty well. (and I am impressed with Voeckler, no matter how it ends!) Ullrich is still around if anything 'happens' to the leaders. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:59 PM Sad to see Spaniards fall from grace in the Pyrenees, too. Still, Lance WILL have his way. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Benjamin Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:49 PM Heras crashed on a decent lost too much time. He's out of contention. Still, I'd have to respect him he finsihes the race anyways. It's too bad to see this happen in his first tour as the main guy on his team. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:32 PM These are from cyclingnews.com, BTW, and when I posted above they had not finished posting all the results, so here is Heras, about even with the USPS domestiques:
~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Blackcatter Date: 17 Jul 04 - 12:34 PM Damn! Hamilton is out. I was really hoping he'd do well this year. Sorry about my scoring mistakes. above. Just going by memory, which isn't as complicated at the silly scoring system. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Jul 04 - 12:04 PM Hamilton has abandoned; I dunno about Heras. ~S~
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Jul 04 - 11:28 AM I feel like this-- if fate removes Armstrong, I'm happy just to see the old Lance has returned. Of course I hope he wins, but I don't have that sense of dread anymore. I also hope he retires now-- I can't tkae this nect year! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 17 Jul 04 - 07:45 AM Just in case you wonder, he's new to me too (except that I knew the name of course: Klöden). I see nobody now among the other cyclists to stop Armstrong's sixth (and if that happens: last I'd say) victory. The only other possibilities are: a downhill crash, Armstrong getting sick, or the sick way how Eddie Merckx was stopped on his way to his sixth victory. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 16 Jul 04 - 11:43 AM That Kloden fellow, he's new to me, but he looks like an interesting factor for this year. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 16 Jul 04 - 06:00 AM I see Tyler Hamilton and Oscar Sevilla as the main contenders of Armstrong. Ullrich this year has not a good team for the mountains though his personal shape seems to be good. Ullrich has lost his strongest teammate before the Tour by injury, last year's third placed Vinokurov. His second strongest teammate, Botero, seems to be out of form completely. The young French champion, Thomas Voeckler, doesn't look like he wants to hand over the yellow jersey without a fight, but he isn't strong enough yet. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jul 04 - 04:17 PM TEAM MOUNTAIN STRATEGY ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jul 04 - 03:03 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Benjamin Date: 15 Jul 04 - 02:12 AM This tour has been quite unpredictable. Petachi and Cipolini are both out, and Liberty rode a terrible team time trial. I don't really believe that the GC contention will get interesting till the last week as that is when all the main contenders are trying to peak. In the mean time, I still hold onto a small glimmer of hope for Heras. Witht he moutain stages here, he just might have a chance to finally get back the time he needs before the time trials. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Bill D Date: 14 Jul 04 - 05:46 PM an interesting sidelight of the race is the 'political' and gentleman's agreement to allow certain riders to 'win' a stage when they 'could' be beaten, but have ridden well, and are in their home town, or sentimental favorites..etc... as long as it doesn't affect the overall results or cost a serious contender a lot of points. Armstrong let Heras win a stage one year when he probably could have beaten him..and a few similar things happen each year.. Also, there is a sort of agreement that if a major contender has a bad fall or flat tire, his opponent will slow down a bit to allow the 'competition' to continue....which ultimately is good for publicity and viewership. (and next time it might be YOU that has the bad luck!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Jul 04 - 04:51 PM The time bonuses also change from time to time, sometimes every year, depending on the course and how the race organizers want to weight it. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Folkiedave Date: 14 Jul 04 - 04:37 PM In answer to the question at the start - Derek Woods of Sheffield City Morris is a keen cycling fan and is following part of the tour at this very moment. It does mean he is so fit he can caper over a bus shelter. (OK I exagerrate but you know what I mean). Dave www.collectorsfolk.co.uk |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 14 Jul 04 - 04:28 PM Sorry, but 'King of the mountains' is not determined by the times on the mountain stages, but by the points you get for being first, second, third and so on on the top of the mountains (not: at finish) irrespective of how far you are before the next. The higher the mountain the more points you can get. For the green jersey (best sprinter) the equivalent is valid: 30 points for the first (whether half an hour, half a minute or half a split second before the next), 25 for the second and so on. The flatter the stage the more points for the winner. On mountain stages you don't get as many points for being first as on flat stages. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: GUEST,Blackcatter Date: 14 Jul 04 - 04:03 PM Beyond being a natural occurance in a race with 200 riders, the Peloton also has a useful purpose. When one or more riders break away from the pack on a "break-away," often tiems they're hope is to finish that day's stage in a significantly shorter time, therefore moving up in the standings. The Peloton allows the majority of the riders to catch those break-away riders most of the time, since a rider in the Peloton uses up to 30% less energy riding in that crowd instead of riding by himself or in a small group. Therefore, the mas of riders can use their energy more effectivly and typically "reel" the break-away riders back to the Peloton. Of course, some riders can maintain their lead by the end of a stage and do more up in the standings. As for scoring, it's all pretty simple. The person with the lowest elapsed time wins the race. The person with the lowest elapsed time in the "mountain stages" wins "King of the Mountains" and the rider who wins the most sprints/has the shortest elapsed time during them wins the Sprinting prize. Remember there are mini-sprints a couple times a day in most stages as well as the individual and team time trials. Why does Lance win (in no particular order)? He is one of the strongest riders (watch him burn up them mountains better than all but the mountain specialists). He is one of the fastest riders (typically he's at the top or near the top in time trials and he almost never finishes behind the Peloton). He is one of the best with strategy and knows his main opponents weaknessses. He has one of the best teams that work with him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 14 Jul 04 - 03:37 PM Of my several typos I'd like to correct two: Ullrich (not Ulrich) and Merckx (not Merckxs). The day after tomorrow will tell who can make the podium. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Jul 04 - 09:08 AM Yes, Wolfgang, good job. I think I watched two Tours intently and did a lot of reading before the commentary began to really sink in. It can't really be learned and integrated in three weeks. All the info is there-- it's just so complex the brain needs time to sort it. Like learning poker by watching. Enjoy what you can and let the rest sit a bit-- it will make more sense next year. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: Wolfgang Date: 14 Jul 04 - 05:12 AM Just to add a bit and tell why sprinters never go for the general classification and why people going for the general classification don't go for sprints and what's the use of teams when the main general classification is the individual one. (1) Sprinters have more body weight due to having more muscle mass. That makes them slow (due to their weight) in the mountains. But they are not as bad in the mountains as it looks when you see their placement in the general classification more than 1 hour behind Armstrong. If a good sprinter would go for the general classification in time he would be among the first 20 or 30 perhaps. A German sprinter and world champion, Rudi Altig, oncve tried that and ended a good nineteenth. Now, they are so specialised that they don't want to lose strength in the mountain legs and therefore cycle slower than they actually could. There is a time limit (10 to 15% more than the winner, perhaps). They know that and they do just enough to come in before the limit. At the foot of a big mountain someone calls out 'groupetto' and a slow train of those not going for the general classification forms. They are informed about the time difference and race according to the rule 'as slow as possible without being disqualified'. (2) Why do people going for the general classification no sprint. They actually are not bad at sprint, but their lower weight is a disadvantage in sprints. However, if Armstrong would go for the green jersey (the classification according to ranks on arrival) he might make even the podium or even win (Merckxs once did win both classifications). He would end lets say tenth in sprints in flat legs and would be among the first three in mountain legs, In addition he could win overall the points classification. He doesn't make it for one single reason: It is too dangerous. He and Ullrich always come in now between 20th and 30th place, safe from the sprints and safe from falls (and lost time) in the main field. In several of the Tours, Armstrong had been about fifth in the points classification for winning a lot of points in the mountain legs. But he doesn't risk the win in what he is best for a possible but unsure win in what he is good. (3) Noone can now win the Tour on his own. The last who could do that was Merckxs. The reason for that is the advantage a rider has if riding in a big group (less wind). The speed can be over 50 km/hour and at that speed a lone cyclist needs 10% more strength as a rider in the middle of a group. The differences in strength are less than these 10 % so no single rider can outperform a group at top speed. In the mountain stages, the velocities can drop to 15 km/h. At that speed and in the mountains, the wind plays nearly no role, so a single man can outperform a group. That's why they come in teams. Armstrong never will go at the head of a group as long as he has a teammate with him. He has the easy life for most of the Tour. His teammates bring him the food and the drinks so he hasn't to slow down at food control points. He is never in the wind, he doesn't have to wait for teammates with a flat tire. When he has a flat tire a teammate gives him his cycle and rides on Armstrongs new cycle from behind up to the front for a quick change. So, for Armstrong and his rivals the Tour is easy for at least 95 % of the race. But the last 5 % is what makes the overall winners. At the end of a long day of cycling through the mountains the finish is high on a mountain. His teammates are then tired from making all the work for him and he usually is on his own among peers who are also without helpers. No benefits any more from riding behind another. Now he has to show why he is the leader of a team. He rides up a mountain as fast as he can for half an hour or a bit less. If he is good at that he'll take 2 min off his rivals, enough to win the overall classification. He is also alone in the two time trials. The wind is the same for everyone and his team expects him to be the fastest rider. In the sprints, the team also is vital: The best sprinter is behind his teammates who make the pace as fast as they can. One by one they drop out due to exhaustion. The fastest of his teammates is the last. Ideally, he goes out of the way 100 m from the finish line. If in doing so he crosses the path of a rival of his own sprinter that's an extra benefit. The sprinter only does the tlast 100 m on his own. A group of riders can be as quick as the peloton, if they are at least about twenty. Fewer riders can on flat stages never be as quick as the peloton. As small group will ride in 'Belgian circle' (or however you call it) that is the first man in the wind only stays there for a few seconds and then drops back to the last place and so on. It looks like a continuous circle and so this group can perform nearly as quick as the peloton. If you see a rider not contributing to this circle, always staying at the last position, he is a teammate of the man with the yellow jersey. He is not expected to help others to take the yellow jersey from his mate. So he is probably the strongest maof this group when it comes to a sprint. He could win the stage and there is no official rule against it, but they would make him rue that decision some time later. Someone who has not shared the hard work is expected to stay in the background when there is the fight for the laurels. When Ulrich was winning the Tour, Virenque was his main rival. On a mountain stage, Virenque was attacking and Ullrich follwed as the only rider behind Virenque. They rode together for the whole of the last ascent, Ullrich always in second place (he was leading on time at that moment). Ullrich could have won the stage, but he did what was expected, he stayed in second place. You have seen similar deeds from Armstrong too. Knowing the official rules is one thing, knowing the iron clad other rules is another thing. Today is the first day on which the men for the general classification have to show how strong they are. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Jul 04 - 06:19 PM The Peloton is just everyone trying to ride their race. Whatever one's overall race goal may be, there is a strategic approach to riding in it. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: jimmyt Date: 13 Jul 04 - 05:45 PM thanks susan. WHat is the strategic purpose of the pellaton? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Jul 04 - 04:58 PM Simple is not so quick, but Bob Roll has a great new book out that explains a lot about it. OK, as simple and clear as I can be-- About 200 guys enter the race, arranged in teams invuited to participate. Each indivuidal and each team is commefcially sponsiored. The sponsirs have different interests and expecations based on how much of the freight they've undertaken to pay. But not all 200 finish-- there is attrition expected daily and as the phases of the race go on. To fininsh you have to ride EACH sceduled day-- so a boo-boo on the knee is something you either ride with, or it knocks you out. No injured reserve status. Prizes are given for shortest overall time accumulated (Lance races for this) AKA the "GC" or General Classification. A rider of his caliber has many sponsorhips and he shares his overall prize $$ with other riders on his team. They ride so as to give him every possible chance of winning the GC prize. Each team member has specific skills to devote to this and final team membership takes all this into account. (If it were horses, think steeplechasers.) Prizes are also given for sprints, and the sprinters are usually quite poor at mountain climbing on the bike but they are specialists at racing in short bursts. They concentrate on the flat stages, and there are sprints at the end as well as sprinkled into the race couse itself. Teams that focus on sprints also have riders who help the sprinters get up front when it matters, in time to break through the wannabes and come across the line first. (In horse terms, think American Quarter Horse.) Prizes are given for mountain climbing, and teams organize around that too. (Cross-country eventers or foxhunters.) A GC rider is usually a generalist who is good at all apsects of cycling and who has the stamina to survive three weeks of varied terrain and varied race conditions. A GC-contending rider will let the sprinters have their fun and not worry about their GC ranking while that phase of the race is going on, because they know that the mountains will separate the men from the boys and the well-organized (well-sponsored) teams from the less-well-organized teams. So by the time the whole three weeks have been run, the GC winner has managed to get round the course in the shortest total time. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: jimmyt Date: 13 Jul 04 - 04:22 PM forgive me for being so dumb, but I can't figure out a lot about how this event is scored. Don't get me wrong, I love to watch it, and sit there glued to the tv, but in reality, I am about in as much of a daze about the strategies as I would be watching cricket with Bulgarian announcers. It is really a confusing sport if you don't know the rules, ie hard to figure out on your own. If anyone could shed some simple light on it, I would appreciate it Thanks jimmyt |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM ... but you know, it's a tour of France, not an Olympic-regulated or arena sport. Is it unfortunate that things happen that cause injury and so forth? Of course. But it is a ROAD race with tradition, and the crowd-- in all its forms-- is part of it. To people new to watching it, I'm sure it all seems quite odd, but to old hands-- it's "Le Tour"! If you listen to the comments by Bob Roll, Phil Liggett, and Paul Sherwen-- all experienced riders and Tour habitues-- you'll hear a certain fatalistic tone when these things occur. Vive Le Tour! ~S~ PS, a number of amateur and proferssional cyclists are killed each year, not in the Tour but in training rides, by motorists, sometimes running them off the road on purpose. Compared to the reality of road cycling, the Tour is a safe place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone? From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Jul 04 - 01:49 PM Yes, or its stupid owner. ~S~ |
