BS: Who's marching on 27th?

Subject: BS: Marching against lies on 27th?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 01:35 PM

"NO MORE WAR NO MORE LIES" - that's the slogan for marches on September 27th, this Saturday - taking place in Algeria, Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Belgium, Canada, Cyprus, Denmark, Egypt, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Japan, Jordan, Lebanon, Macedonia, Mexico, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Pakistan, Palestine, Poland, Portugal, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sudan, Syria, Thailand, UAE, UK and USA.

In the light of today's stories about how the official CIA search for "Weapons of Mass Destruction" has come up with nothing, and expects to come up with nothing, the "No More Lies" bit is especially appropriate. (And here is a link to the story - and to avoid accusations of "liberal" bias, I give the one in the main Conservative newspaper in the UK - the Daily Telegraph.)

Here's a link to the website for the London march.

I suggest any of us going on any of the marches report back here.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 02:00 PM

And here is this from the Stop the War site, dated September 25th:

Confirmed - George W Bush to visit Britain!

It has been confirmed by Buckingham Palace that George W Bush will be visiting Britain on the 19th, 20th and 21st of November. This will be a state visit.

People will be outraged at this fêting of the warmonger in chief even as Iraqis are dying daily. The Stop the War Coalition will be organising demonstrations and a number of other events and stunts on every day of his visit to make it clear that he is not welcome here. Put the dates in your diary now!

We have produced a letter demanding that the British Government retract this invitation immediately. This letter will be available at the demonstration this Saturday and will also be available from the office and on the website. We want people to sign it and send it to 10 Downing St.

Let's make it clear to this government that George W Bush is not welcome here and that if he does come, he will get a reception he will never forget.

See you all on Saturday!

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 09:05 PM

Here's a link to some pictures I took back on the big February march.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 09:22 PM

Can't, McGrath....

The P-Vine's last dughter is being married an' Iz playing one party in the afternoon and then expected to play at the wedding...

But you can bet Iz gonna be there in spirit... Heck, I was there in January when the temp got up to about 15 degrees F which is real danged cold... so you know I'd be there if I could...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: LadyJean
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 12:19 AM

We're having Howard Dean visibility days until He comes to town on October 18. So, I'll be down in the Strip District with my Howard Dean sign this Saturday. He opposes the war in Iraq. I've learned more about what's going on there from the Dean campaign than I do from the papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: Ringer
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 06:01 AM

Not me. Like the Telegraph, I still have to be convinced that the decision to invade Iraq was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 06:17 AM

But to make war you have to be convinced it is right, not just not convinced it was wrong.

Whether the decision was right or wrong, it seem pretty clear that in the process of going to war the government lied even more than governmments normally lie - and I think the Telegraph would probably agree with that statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 07:04 AM

More power to you McGrath, I hope the response is overwhelming.
And not a sign of the WMDs, what is Tony and co going to come up with next. I bet Blair is sorry he ever fed the Chimp peanuts, and that was all he had to offer. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: Ringer
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 12:37 PM

I've no problem in declaring it right, McGrath. I'd hate you to think I was mealy-mouthed.

...in the process of going to war the government lied even more than governmments normally lie... Can't argue with that, and I believe governments (specially this government) lie a lot. And if WMD were the government's only casus belli then I'd find it difficult to defend my views. But I think the world is a better place with Saddam no longer a tyrant, and that that is justification enough.

I don't forget the thousands of Iraqis whom Saddam killed or caused to be killed, unlike your endearingly naïve chums from whom you quote extensively above.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 01:30 PM

Well, as far as we know, Ringer, Saddam is still a tyrant… he's just no longer head of state. But if being a tyrant is “justification enough,” do you then support having George and Tony go after all tyrants everywhere? You do realize that is a very long list, don't you?

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 02:30 PM

I'd think the world would be a better place with a lot of tyrants and rotten leaders gone, including George Bush, but that doesn't mean it would be right to go to war to get rid of them.

Innocent people are still getting killed in Iraq, by both sides, and by a whole mob of gangsters in it for the loot - who only too likely will end up running the place, going by the experience in Afghanistan and in the former Soviet Union.

So far as the thousands of people Saddam caused to be killed goes, for a very large proportion of those deaths, he was acting as the agent of the United States (and the UK), most especially those killed in the aggression against Iran. Noone has gone after his paymasters in Western capitals, and noone will either.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:41 PM

For fairness sake, Ringer, let us not forget the 7-9000 Iraqis who we killed during the invasion, and had it not been for the invasion, which was not necessitated by anything in particular, would not have died- for detailsIraq Body Count --

I will also point out, Ringer,that your opinion or my opinion about the benefits of Saddam's overthrough are really pretty irrelevant--what really matters is how the Iraqi's feel--Rather than relying on Donald Rumsfeld, CNN, or even the Guardian, I suggest you check these accounts of life in Iraq, during and after the invasion, by real Iraqi's:

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2003_09_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#106413887471607711
Where is Raed?

Whether you believed in "Regime change" or not, whether you believed that we had moral or legal rights to invade Iraq, I think you would be hardpressed to deny that Iraq is a huge, expensive, mess right now, with no clear, positive direction evident to anyone--the thing is that, had things been better planned initially, and had the world community not been arrogantly strongarmed by the Bush administration, we'd been in a much more tenable situation today--

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:45 PM

Sorry--should be a blue clickie: Girl Blog from Iraq

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: Leo Condie
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:47 PM

i am marching...anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's marching on 27th?
From: izzy
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 04:02 PM

I will be there in spirit, McG, all the best with it. The more uncomfortable you can make B & B, the better it will be for the world. I don't think there are any marches going on where I am, but I'll take a look around.

Cheers,

Isabel