Lyr ADD: Pancho and Lefty (Townes Van Zandt)

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,Question Mark
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 09:01 AM

I've listened a number of times to this song since the beginning of the year. Can't get it out of my head now.

In retrospect, I like the theory of the song that I previously stated. Kinda deep.

The only thing to add to that interpretation is that the story line might be referencing that Pancho's dying words were to tell Lefty where the money he stole as a bandit was at...which Lefty then took. The local police may have known that, but let Lefty split town with it 1) because Lefty was a dreamer, and 2. because they killed his brother. Over the years, though, Pancho's dirty money got Lefty nowhere...perhaps even guilt ridden.

QM

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 09:14 AM

LH et al-

I like the romantic theorgy of "where the best songs come from" but I also admire the song crafters who grind out waste quantities of songs, out of which a few great ones still float to the top. It's a hard business, this songwriting, and if we had to wait for the muse to strike before composing a song we songwriters might not be so filthy rich!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 01:31 PM

Yes, Charlie, that's a whole different kind of discipline, and it's definitely a worthy one. People who do it that way, writing new songs every day like the folks in Tin Pan Alley did, are to be respected for their hard work and their accomplishments. They come up with a few really great ones.

I never approached songwriting in that disciplined fashion, because I wasn't trying to make a living at it, so I just wrote stuff when the muse hit me, and you never know when that will be.

I would say that the worst stuff I ever wrote was the stuff that I was pre-thinking or calculating as I was doing it...in other words, I had some idea in advance to write about something in particular...that usually resulted in a mediocre song.

The best stuff I ever wrote came seemingly out of nowhere, very fast, totally unplanned, as if I was just the conduit and the song came from beyond me, but through me.

That has shaped my view of where the best songs come from. I don't think they come from me, but simply through me. In coming through me, they are of course influenced and colored to some extent by the person I am, so my fingerprints, so to speak, might be all over them, but they still came from way out there far beyond my own calculating mind.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,Chad
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 10:55 PM

Just to add a few thoughts to this discussion, and I am probably wrong. But what if Lefty was a folk singer writing songs about Mexican outlaws (Poncho). But after Poncho dies so does Lefty's dream and he can no longer sing the blues all night long like he used to. So he moves back home to Cleveland back dies off slowly with dust in his mouth the same way Poncho died in the desert.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 11:05 PM

Chad:

You're spinning an interesting story, but it's not the one in the song. The night they laid old Pancho low, Lefty split for Ohio. But where he got the bread to go, ain't nobody knows. There's only one rational conclusion to be made from this little line.


A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 11:07 PM

May I say just one thing at this juncture...?

It's not Poncho fer Chrissake! It's PANCHO!!!!!!!!!!!! P-A-N-C-H-O! Pancho with an "A". Got it, folks?

A poncho is a thing you wear. The common Mexican name is Pancho.

Geez!

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 12:22 PM

I was able to copy the first verse with detailed explanations for each line from another website where they too seem to be doing research on this song. Here's the first verse I copied and the website with a blue clicky hot link provided:

Livin' on the road, my friend
Was gonna keep you free and clean
TVZ believed that a life without soap wasn't worth living and since the best soaps came from many far away places, a life on the road would be needed to avail oneself of all the possibilities. There is also some reasonably certain probability that the mention of "free" had something to do with TVZ's fear of living in houses. His boyhood home was destroyed when the neighboring condom factory exploded and coated the whole place in latex.
But now you wear your skin like iron
Van Zandt now alleges that his central character failed miserably in finding any soap at all and now after years of weathering his skin was in pretty bad shape.
And your breath's as hard as kerosene
Plus he was in dire need of toothpaste and a dentist as well
You weren't your mama's only boy
While this was true, he was the only one born with balls the size of cantelopes which required immediate surgery
But her favorite one, it seems
This was because the baby had a willie to match which they didn't operate on
She began to cry when you said goodbye
Mom had been long into the incestuous relationship which would prove to be very detrimental to her son's mental health. While she dreamed of a porn star future for him, all he could think of was how great it would be taking a piss without stepping on his dick. His dream was surgery
And sank into your dreams
He vowed to save all he could for that glorious day when penis reduction surgery would be possible.


For more info click the link and go to www.tvzwuzzadoofusandurallfucktup.com

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 12:36 PM

You are such a dipwad, man. ;-) I have it on good authority that immediately after dying you are going to be teleported to a special part of hell where you will be surrounded by nothing but Woody Allen clones who will talk to you constantly about their personal problems and follow you around relentlessly. There will be no women there, no beer, no food at all, no easy chairs, no TV, no music, and no weimaraners! But there will be Freudian analysts to whom you can go to talk about your woes, and they will all look and act very much like Dick Cheney. They will charge you heavily for their time, and you will have no money, so you'll have to work it off in the salt mines while "Woody" tells you all about his romantic disappointments and family problems.

You're fucked.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 12:48 PM

Man, that all sounds great to me........except for the lack of Weimaraners. Any kind of life, afterlife or otherwise, is simply worthless without Weimies.............***sigh***............but I guess I could even take that providing there were no fucking Dachshunds!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 01:03 PM

Oh, now you're really asking for it...! Sacred ground, buddy, you're treading on sacred ground.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 04:01 PM

Seems to make as much sense as the other explanations.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 08:29 PM

Awesome!

Why do I even bother to post! Such insight! Reality stripped away to its orgasmic elemental state. But words are inadequate.

I need another drink...

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 08:04 AM

Charley, that one drove me back to the hard drugs of my youth.

LOL.

Mick

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 08:50 AM

SPaw,

I think you might have over-analyzed things, here. But not by much...



A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 09:07 AM

An alternative explanation would posit that Pancho was weaned all too early and had latent sexual fantasies about his mother:

You weren't your mama's only boy
But her favorite one, it seems;
She began to cry when you said goodbye
And sank into your dreams

There's the additional suggestion that Pancho was also impotent:

Wore his guns outside his pants

Lefty on the other hand (his larboard one) was equally tramatized but by too early toilet training, the key reference in the song being these lines:

The dust that Pancho bit down South
It ended up in Lefty's mouth

This song, I fear, is never going to seem the same after all this erudite discourse.

I suppose, out of kindness, we might have let it go.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 10:07 AM

The Ballad of Pat and Charley's Literary Criticisms

Old Pat was plain and sexual,
He warn't no inty-leckshual,
He like to shout in terms obscene,
At people on the movie screen.
But down at Mudcat, on a break
Someone made abig mistake,
Asked Pat for a literary critique,
Something you should never do.

All the professorés swear
They'd heard of his repute somewhere
They only lost the footnote source
When the winds began to blow.

Now Charley, he a can't pick amd choose
Every verse, like he useter do,
When Pat produced his grand critique,
It raised a bit of Charley's pique
It was all bullshit, smoke and phlegm
But that didn't matter much to him,
He started writing one himself,
AN' we all know how that goes.

All the professorés swear
They'd heard of his repute somewhere
They only lost the footnote source
When the winds began to blow.

Now critics all ignored old Pat,
And Charley's counterpoint fell flat
On grounds of insufficient charm
And post-deconstructionist alarm.
And Pat, he needs your prayers, it's true
But save a few for Charley, too,
He's writing guidebooks for the Zoo
Who show up in the spring.

All the professorés swear
They'd heard of his repute somewhere
They only lost the footnote source
When the winds began to blow....
Oh, when the winds began to blow....

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 10:24 AM

I ...... cannot ......... wait ....... for ..... the ....... response ....... to ...... this!!!!!!

You are a master, Amos.

Mick

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 10:37 AM

Mick-

how can i typeeee when i keep falling off this chair laughingggggg

Amos, you's the KING!

Charley NNNNNoble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 11:17 AM

Well FINALLY!!!!!!

At last this has turned into a real Mudcat thread. Lots of fun pokin', an Amos original of high quality, and foremost above all, just about completely lost from the original topic in the best tradition of this joint. Truly past the classic "Thread Drift" and into the rare air of "Thread Blown All to Hell."

I want to thank all of the other "Old Timers".........Hawk, Dick, Mick, Charley, Amos.......... who have successfully converted this otherwise sillyass thread into a complete piece of crap.

BRAVO! BRAVO!   BRAVO!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 02:13 PM

Ha! Ha! Ha! (jeez....it's a good thing that poor old TVZ is not here to see this)

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 02:15 PM

By the way, Spaw, I printed out some of your "member" photos from Mudcat on the printer and showed them to my Dachshunds.

"This is the guy," I said.

They tore them up savagely and pissed on them.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 10:55 PM

Hawk, Dick, Mick, Charley, Amos, and Spaw all toll the bell -
All along, down along, down along lee;
They've huffed an' they've puffed this whole thread to hell,
And it's a good thing ol' TVZ is not here to see!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Franz S.
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 01:41 PM

I've always believed that the TVZ song more or less followed the story of the film "Viva Villa!" (1934; Wallace Beery). There was a reporter named Wallace who was portrayed as a sort of Boswell to Villa. And according to the film Villa was killed by a relative of one of the "wives" he had wronged. I don't recall any hint that the reporter had betrayed Villa in the film, but it's been at least 30 years since I've seen it. Doesn't anyone else here remember it?

For web references:
http://www.geocities.com/cinemorgue2/wallacebeery.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0025948/

Sorry, my blue clickies never work.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 01:46 PM

Pancho Villa as Samuel Johnson? Quite a thought. Or the other way round, that would have been fun: ""Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 02:21 PM

Franz was getting hot and sore,
Pacing up and down the floor,
Researching antecedents which
He found in 1934.
But Franz could not, for all his tryin'
Get the other guys to buy-in,
He swore old Villa was the pillar,
But maybe it ain't so...

All the professorés swear
They'd heard of his repute somewhere
They only lost the footnote source
When the winds began to blow.
Ohhhh, ohh, the winds began to blow....

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 02:28 PM

Villa rhymes with Mia...did you know?
Just say "Villa Farrow", put it in your barrow, feel it to the marrow, and you'll know!
Villa makes you see-a things you never saw before.
Villa is the bee-ah that you spilled upon the floor.
Villa wasn't quee-ah, he consorted with the gals.
Villa like Maria ends in "ee-ah"! That's how you say Villa.

And Pancho is still spelled with a "A" in the 1st syllable.

P-AAAHH-N-CHO   VEEEEE-YAHHH

Got it?

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 03:29 PM

HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !
HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO !

HEY FUCK YOU PAAAHH-N-CHO
HEY UPPA YOU ASS CEEEE-Z-KO

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:34 PM

Hijo de un gran puta!

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:44 PM

Hey, little pinche cabronito, doan be tellin' me how to speak no Spanish mon. Doan forget I live a lot closer to the border den you do, hokay? You gotta remember dese tings, little pendejo, or you get yourself in a LOT of toruble, ya know? A LOT of trouble.

A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:51 PM

I'd be careful Amos or you'll end up on the wrong side of that new fence they're building.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:57 PM

He ees planning to seet on the fence, hombre! He feegers he can play both side for hees own gain and get dates weeth girls, but he's gonna get a beeg sorpresa...BANG! Because the Federales een Mexico gonna blow heem right off that fence and back to California. We use them fockin' gringos chingados like heem for target practice.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:58 PM

Amos is scratchin' his hip some more,
Tryin' to channel his next metaphor;
Hawk is screamin' as if in pain
'Cos no one can speel Pancho's name;
Spaw is spewing HEY PAAAHH-N-CHO !
HEY CEEEE-Z-KO!
Why he spews so?
Well, there ain't nobody knows.

But all the Mudcat lurkers say,
They could have posted better any day;
The opportunity just slipped away,
It's a kindness, I suppose.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:00 PM

It's hot and heavy and the sun still ain't down in the west.

Charley noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:00 PM

Hey, Amos???? Say "Hello" to my leetle friend....

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:01 PM

Shit Charley......LMAO........I just about choked on the salad I'm eating........I think I have some Romaine forced up a sinus cavity now............

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:11 PM

Ole Hawk, he stayed behind in school,
While they taught him not to drool,
Until they turned him out, alone,
To face the cold inside his bones.
He couldn't stand the cold inspections,
And grammar, text and style corrections,
So he dropped out in Canada,
Where no-one knows his past.

The poets sing about the threads
That he fucked up and left for dead,
And where he lives is bitter cold,
And that is how the tale is told.
But Little Hawk still gets his say
--he writes pedantic posts, by day,
They show the latest dusty trace
Of the thumb that's up his ass.

A few old professorés claim
They could have understood his brain,
They only had to run away
When the wind began to blow...

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:14 PM

I suppose you think you can goad me into spending some of my valuable time composing yet more doggerel to the framework of Pancho and Lefty, do you, Amos?

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:15 PM

LOL

I wonder if Amos is as quick drawing a six-shooter?

What's he do for a day job?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:45 PM

You have to wonder. ;-) He seems to have a great deal of time on his hands.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:58 PM

Well that and then when you figure he's multi-tasking and typing with only one hand, his other being actively engaged in polishing his tiny knob, well.........ya' just gotta' be im-damn-pressed!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,Ghost of Townes van Zant
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 06:45 PM

I just want all of you frivolous and whimsical bastards to know that, despite an afterlife spent visiting and haunting the various taverns, greasy spoons, performance venues, Greyhound Bus Stations, whorehouses, and Steve Earle's condominium, I still have time to occasionally haunt the Mudcat Cafe and keep an eye on you worthless sons of bitches. And I don't like what I'm seeing.
I don't like the over-analysis of my songs, any more than Picasso would like you creeps overanalyzing his painting, finding Santa Claus taking a leak in the top right corner of the Guernica, or fighting over whether the Man with the Blue Guitar is playing a Guild or a Martin. (Its a goddam Harmony by the way). Anyway, lay off and get a life while there's still time.
Shee-it.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 07:04 PM

Ghost of TVZ-

Thanks for sharing!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 07:21 PM

That's jus' ole Hawk gettin' even, Charley. I thought you knowed.


A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 07:35 PM

Well spoken, Mr Van Zandt. I fully understand your frustration with this tasteless desecration of your worthy and memorable songwriting. But I fear that it may continue, because Amos can keep spinning out more inane codswallop indefinitely, and Spaw has been hanging out so long with those damned filthy Weimaraners that he has basically forgotten whatever he once knew about common restraint and decency.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 07:38 PM

Aw, Little Hawk, your feathers!!! I yam sorry I stepped on your toes there. I was swept away in the glorious floodgates of creative ejaculation; I am sure you understand that.

No need to go using an artificial entity there just to say what you feel when you have been insulted.

A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 07:50 PM

Look, it wasn't me, Amos. Got that? It wasn't. I swear upon the honor of Winona Ryder that it wasn't me, and that's serious business.

Whoever it was, though, I like his sense of humor. Or if it really was TVZ's ghost, then I can sympathize with his point of view.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 08:45 PM

Gentlemen-

TVZ's ghost may not be one of us. Shouldn't we nurture this contact with the afterlife, rather than evoke consternation? At least consider carefully (I know that's asking a lot) before posting.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Franz S.
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 10:15 PM

"We create our own reality." And it's a lot more fun that way.

(Or is it Uber-reality?)

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 08:51 AM

I spend my days on the road,
in motel rooms all full of mold.
Tryin' to fight the bosses greed,
spreadin'out the workers creed.
Its important work you know its true
takes all my time to push it through
So why am I sitting here with you
laughing like a fool????

Spaw, he is a funny boy
Charley constantly sings "Ships Ahoy"
Amos, a master of hyperbole
He's almost as good as me
Up in Princeton, Dick bitches of wrongs
committed by rubes on the old songs
What Little Hawk is saying in Canada's snows
Ain't nobody knows

All the bosses are happy today
Cause ole Mick has gone away,
instead of fighting for fairer pay
He's writing this stupid song



***chuckle***

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 09:35 AM

LMAO.....I'd say more but I gotta' go watch the TrisMan bowl......helluva' job Bro.......

Spaw....still LOL