BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews

Subject: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 02:52 PM

Well, I can't believe five days have passed since the movie opened and nobody else has posted, so I guess I'll have to start it off.

The boys (hubby and 8-year-old son) and I had a fine time at the movie. I'm the one who's read the books, the others just keep hearing about them. I went in expecting to be reasonably entertained but to be disappointed with the Doctor's portrayal (given some others' previews and reviews), and I was pleasantly surprised. I'd say it was a good time all-round.

The only really bad review I've seen was in the Sunday 11/16 New York Times, by a reader who had lots of quibbles about emphasis on the wrong details and the historical improbability of the alternative plot that was devised for the movie. (The Times had a good review from someone else on Friday, as it happens.) I think that guy went in with expectations way to high. I went in assuming that the movie could never do justice to the depth of the books (they're just WAY too dense with detail), and came out feeling that they'd given it a good gloss, given the inherent limitations of the movie form.

So... what say you all?

~ Becky in Tucson

For future searchers purposes:
Master and Commander - the Far Side of the World
Patrick O'Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 03:04 PM

I'm about 1/2 way through my first O'Brian book - 'The Yellow Admiral' - and enjoying it. I expect I may get around to the movie in 2006 or so....

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Amos
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 03:07 PM

I am anticipating it with high enthusiasm, just for the FX.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 03:19 PM

I saw the movie Saturday and was very pleased with it. Good action, good special effects and a decent plot line. The acting was believable and period costumes seemed authentic. All in all, a very enjoyable afternoon at the flicks.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: MAG
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 03:20 PM

Peter WEir said on NPR that the movie was not intended to glorify war. It is a well-made, brilliantly cted movie -- which proceeds to glorify the English navy.

And we know what the Irish thought of Lord Nelson, after he dissed his birthplace.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST,Nancy King at work
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 03:38 PM

MMario --

If you like the one you're reading now, go back and start at the beginning of the series with "Master and Commander" and read 'em in order. They really do build on one another. I listened to them all on tape, in order, and have now started back at the beginning reading the books. Great!

Cheers, Nancy

P.S. From what I hear, the movie has not much to do with the plots of the books, so you might as well go and see it now! I plan to see it this weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 04:17 PM

Oh, yes, MMario, definitely read them in order.

In one review of the movie on public radio there was a complaint that, like watching an episode of Star Trek, you are never in doubt that the good guys will win. (Actually, the parallels between the Star Trek series and Aubrey/Maturin would make an interesting analysis...) In contrast, what you find in the books is that, though you know Aubrey and Maturin will survive, you're never sure if "the barky" (ship) will, or wether they'll ever reach their intended destination, or accomplish what they set out to do, or even if so, whether the folks back home will appreciate it the way they should or throw them in jail instead. Many times the plot twist is in the last pages, sometimes it's at the beginning of the next book... definitely keeps you hooked.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Dani
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 04:28 PM

I loved it. Have been trying to talk my husband into reading them, and after seeing it, he just might!

Some of my favorite lines were in there, dialogue that I had thoroughly enjoyed in Master and Commander.

What I thought was especially terrific was the portrayal of the friendship between two such different men. That's a favorite part of the stories, to me, and it really came across in the film.

Jack Aubrey seemed about as difficult to pigeon-hole as he is in the stories: a good, ambitious, flawed, interesting, well-meaning, sensitive man.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 06:35 PM

One quibble: As a Master and Commander, Aubrey would not have been entitled to 2 epaulettes. The sequence was: Master and Commander, 1 epaulette, left shoulder; Captain of less than 3 years seniority, 1 epaulette, right shoulder; Captain of more than 3 years seniority 2 epaulettes.

Besides which, a master and commander would not have been appointed to command a frigate, which was designated as a rated vessel (6th rate). Those were for captains. In the event of a really successful action, the first lieutenant of the vessels involved might have been elevated directly to Captain. This was considered a mark of approval of the captain's behavior.

In the first book of the series, Jack Aubrey, an unemployed Lieutenant, is appointed Master and Commander of the Sloop Sophie. The next book has him rated Captain. Especially in foreign stations, appointment as master and commander was a sign of preferment and generally resulted in elevation to captain within a year or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 08:44 PM

I've always enjoyed an adventure yarn, especially one that takes place on the high seas. This is even better than that, with well crafted characters, grit, and excellent action sequences. It's the kind of movie that should show up action-drivel like the latest Matrix movie for what it is. I sincerely hope for more in this series, especially if they can get Crowe to re-enlist.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Naemanson
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 09:03 PM

Was the Surprise the frigate in the film? Remember that they had to take special action in the books to rate her as a frigate and give her to Aubrey as a captain. If I remember right he was happy to get her because of financial or marital troubles at home.

It will be a while till I can see the movie. I am in Oz for then next ten days. I hope it's still playing in Guam when I get home.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 09:50 PM

Jenn and I saw it last week and were very pleased. We have both read all of the books two or three times, and were satisfied with the treatment the movie gives them. She identifies more with Stephen Matcherin, the studious Irish revolutionary, who would have been a Communist if they had been invented yet, while I am more the Jack Aubrey fan...you know, the portly guy who enjoys his port?

For those who are purists, this movie is not a direct adaptation of the first book (or maybe only loosely). It has elements from at least 3 or 4...it's subtitled "The Far Side of the World" (#10), and owes at least as much to that one, by which time he is certainly a Post Captain.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 02:32 AM

So why the title "Master and Commander?"

The original deal was that the former owners of Rose would get her back for a nominal price after the movie. They disliked the effects the modifications had on her sailing qualities so much that the deal might not happen. At present, she is being reserved for a possible sequel. [See the current WoodenBoat Magazine for more on this.]

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 02:52 AM

I know the film has been criticised as being a bit Hollywoodised...history is a fluid concept. But how about a previous post in this thread, which draws attention to what the Irish thought of Lord Nelson for "dissing his birthplace"? What's that about exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Nerd
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 02:53 AM

Yes, I thought it was odd that they should title it "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" as though there would be a whole "Master and Commander" series. Since he has the rank of Master and Commander for only two of the books, and then toward the end of the second is rated Post Captain, a rank he maintains until book 20 (barring the occasional temporary commodore's rating), it would be more logical to call them "Post Captain" and set the films during that phase of his career. I can only assume that "Master and Commander" sounded more marketable.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST,Strick
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 04:16 PM

I found it interesting to read "who" they cast as the French ship, the Acheron, for the movie - the USS Constitution, "Old Ironsides". Seems they laser scanned it to build a slightly modified scale model.

Cool.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: MartinRyan
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 04:32 PM

I suspect the "dissing" reference was to Wellington - who WAS born in Ireland. He is said to have remarked to the effect that being born in a stable didn't necessarily mean one was a horse! For my part, I've always given him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he was being blasphemous rather than anti-Irish!

Regards
p.s. Looking forward to seeing the film...

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 04:37 PM

I've enjoyed all the books, several times over. O'Brian was truly a master writer, and never let a plot get in the way of character interaction. But it will be some time before I get a chance to see this film, being on the far side of the world and upside down!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble in OZ

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 05:31 PM

I am goin to see this TONIGHT and I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!

I haven't read any of the books, though I've wanted to. My friend Howard, who is himself a brilliant novelist, said he found Master and Commander to be a little dry, owing to its propensity toward nautical terminology. Someone who wasn't familiar with such might get lost. I'd probably just skip the boring parts anyhow. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: MAG
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 07:32 PM

O you are right, MartinRyan, and I apologize to one and all for shooting from the hip.

What Welling ton said, the way I heard it, was more like "Born in a sty ..."

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 07:52 PM

Kim -- yes, the nautical lore and jargon does seem a bit overwhelming at first, but do persevere -- pretty soon you get caught up in the characters and their relationships and in the suspense of what will happen next, and the setting becomes more familiar.

Dani, I'm glad to hear the relationship between Aubrey and Maturin comes across in the film. One of the taped books had an interview with O'Brian at the end of the story, and one of the things he said was that he really set out to write stories about the relationships between men. He chose the shipboard setting partly because it provided such an insular environment. Here were all these guys crammed into a small space for the length of the voyage (years, in some cases), and O'Brian could explore how they got along. Obviously, he also had some interest in the nautical lore and history as well, or he'd never have been able to write such historically accurate books.

I'm looking forward to the movie!

Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST,Nancy King at work
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 07:56 PM

That last anonymous post was me. I keep forgetting to put in my name when I post from work. Life does get complicated, don't it?

Nancy

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Les from Hull
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 09:17 AM

I'm looking forward to the film, which will be here in a week or so. For anyone who hasn't read the books, I will reinforce the advice to start with Master and Commander and read the rest in order. They make a remarkable series.

Actually, Nelson wasn't born that far away from Diss, a place in his native county, Norfolk. And while I'm having a go, it's not the English navy, but the Royal Navy (or perhaps the British Navy) and in those days they did all the glorifying themselves. If you read books about the naval actions of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars they sound just like Hollywood fiction!

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 09:50 AM

This is a really awesome movie. Lots of action and a few really heart-wrenching moments. Russell Crowe is great.... Aubrey chasing the Acheron isn't too unlike Ahab chasing the white whale. The costuming is impeccable and the score is fabulous.

Go see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 10:24 AM

Except for cavils about the titling and things of that sort, the costuming may be impeccable.

According to "Nelson: A Personal History," by Christopher Hibbert, Nelson was born at Burnham Thorpe, in Norfolk.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Naemanson
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 09:36 PM

I have to admit to being surprised at the number of women who have read the books and who are interested in the movie (i.e., the movie not necessarily the actors). I don't mean to be chauvinist by this remark. It's just that none of the women in my acquaintance are even the slightest bit interested in the books. My discussions have all been with men.

As for you women who loved the books, Welcome Aboard. I hope to see more of you among the ranks of O'Brian fans.

There has been no comment on the other books written by O'Brian. He wrote a couple of books about Commodore Hanson's voyage around the world. Those were very good as well.

I haven't read any of his other books, the others that were not about the British Navy.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 11:21 PM

Well here I am in Buffalo, NY and have just seen the film with my son Geof. We both thought the film to superior in many ways to the stuff that has been about lately.

Once again, I go to movies to be entertained. If the only real concern is the number of epaulettes on Jack Aubrey's shoulders I am willing to over look it. As I sit here I can't once recall anyone calling the Surprise a frigate, only the Archeron.

Since I haven't read any of the books I can't say what O'Brian called the Surprise but at 28 guns she clearly wasn't a Frigate.

I enjoyed the characters and thought them to be well developed and well acted. The humor (humour) was very funny and the irony was subtle. The music was spot on as was the clearly defined social space between Officers and able seamen.

This will be a must see when I get the chance every time it's on.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:34 AM

Don-

Frigates came in various sizes, from economy sized of 24 guns or so to the 50-gun family-sized. The rating by number of cannons was also approximate, generally only counted the "great guns" used in the broadside when originally commissioned. For example the U.S. Constitution is generally described as a 44-gun frigate but generally mounted well over 50 cannons. But you don't need to know those kind of arcane things as well to enjoy the movie or the books.

Hope the movie is still around Maine by the time we return to Maine!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:46 AM

We have been waiting for the film with almost as much anticipation as our wait for The Return of the King. (December 17). I enjoy seeing Russel Crowe at work, he generates believability.

I am also going to check out the FX since I heard (on NPR?) that all the ocean footage was computer generated. Just to see if it is obvious. But I am going mostly to see a ripping good yarn. Nancy is going to see Mr. Crowe perform (mostly) and brother Ken is coming along to see the sea, too.

We can't get to the show until monday!!

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: DonMeixner
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 02:40 AM

Thanks Charlie, further investigation says that Frigates were ships built as pursuit/scout/light engagment vessals. Also They carried between 32 and 40 guns on a single designated gun deck with a separate deck overhead. They also carried as many swivel guns and carronades as they wished. American Frigates were larger than British Frigates and carried more large guns.

Using this information it is easy to see how the Surprize could be considered a Frigate as could Archeron.

Neat stuff, thanks again and see the film in a theatre if you can..

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 03:53 AM

Judging from the several special features on the film's site, the seas were not all computer generated -- there are lots of splash-tank shots, and a full scale ship built as well, afloat on a realistic sea....their huge challenge is to make the integration seamless.

I have only seen the leaders but it looks terribly good to me.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: DonMeixner
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 09:35 AM

Amos, the word is seamless.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Kim C
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 09:43 AM

Naemanson, I haven't got around to reading the books yet, but it's on my list of things to do. I am a total FREAK for tall ships - don't ask me why, since I ain't that fond of the ocean. My friend Samantha enjoyed the movie too. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 10:08 AM

Story: lame pulp. Agreed 100% with the "bad" NYT review (and loved the title of the one: "Far Side of Credibility") The series of books and the film are the testosterone equivalent of historical romance novels. Satisfying to history buffs? I think not.

Russell Crowe was as dire as he always is--his on-screen ego seems to grow with every film he makes, overtaking the character. Maybe he should be given some sort of military honor for playing the same cardboard warrior stereotype in film after film.

I was dragged to see this, with the promise that it would be at least as entertaining a film as the deliciously ironic "Pirates of the Caribbean" was. I have to say, of the two, I found "Pirates" to be the more likely candidate for historic authenticity.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 10:20 AM

Don -- right -- seamless is the word I used, isn't it?

Dear GUEST-who-fears-to-be-named:

I do not believe the film was created, nor the books written, to satisfy historical specialists who believe they really know all the correct answers. I notice that you don't provide specifics. My instinct was similar on first blush -- the posters show a highly improbable scene of a ship beam-on in a high sea, threatened with breaching and firing a broadside at an improbable angle. I doubt the shot was real. But I was willing to suspend hyper-criticality in order to hear the tale. I believe they went to considerable trouble to make their film as authentic as possible as far as the seafaring aspects. What exactly did you find off-putting?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:02 AM

"What exactly did you find off-putting?"

For brevity sake, the list of what I didn't find off-putting would be a more concise synopsis of this film.

The writing was appalling, the story bad, bad, bad. Russell Crowe, Russell Crowe, and Russell Crowe, and his earnest obsession with "making every English man stand tall" (as he said at the London opening). Please. This sort of romantic nationalist hero worshipping Hollywood crap is well past the use-by date in terms of film cliche. As I said, "Pirates of the Caribbean" with Geoffrey Rush was a much more entertaining depiction of the era, and a more honest one, frankly.

And about the 1812 enemy in hot pursuit being French...convenient in today's geopolitical terms, no? Hollywood bankrollers are, after all, very Republican creatures. Wouldn't want to tarnish the polish on the Anglo American alliance, now would we? This looked like a bad propaganda film from the 1940s.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:12 AM

And as for the suggestion that this film is Weir's best since "Mosquito Coast" I couldn't agree more. This films sucks just as badly as "Mosquito Coast" did (a lot), and suffers from the same testosterone overdose leading man syndrome (with Russell Crowe replacing Harrison Ford, who now simplistically plays only caricatures of himself, a sure sign of cinematic irrelevance and super-stardom).

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:34 AM

I am anxious to see the movie and hope to do so tomorrow afternoon. My father, an avid O'Brien fan - saw the flick and said it was a very good movie. He said it was not much like the books, but he didn;t expect that. It captured some of the 'backdrop' and a composite of the stories. Sounds about like I'd expect.

BECKY - We did have some conversation on this subject already, albeit in an obscurly titled thread! POB's Desolation Island.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:00 PM

Do you suppose the film might become a gay cult classic, based upon the sexual innuendo between Crowe and whazzizname in many scenes, but the fiddle about dancing scene in particular? Considering how dull and long this is turkey is though, I'm sure the boys will simply fast forward to their favorite gay scenes.

In keeping with the thread title, here is my favorite published review of the film so far, from Mike Sage at Rotten Tomatoes:

Next to S.W.A.T. and Bad Boys 2, this is the most testosterone-fueled action/adventure of the year. I couldn't have been more bored out of my mind.

Running a lengthy near-three hours (and feeling twice that long), Master and Commander has its moments of brilliant character study but these are engulfed by a plethora of tedious, male bondage sea scraps and self-indulgent naval zoom-outs (I counted at least six of 'em). Director Peter Weir can brandish his pretty $150 million cinematography and the gruelling-to-the-point-of-irrelevant Napoleonic nautical accuracy all he wants. These details can't prevent the dirty work incurred by the film's interminable plotlessness as it lulls you into a deep, careless slumber.

Russell Crowe et al give seaworthy performances but nothing you're not familiar with, except perhaps the interesting and rebellious ship-surgeon-meets-adventuring-scientist as played by Paul Bettany.

Crowe himself is the sturdy Captain Jack Aubrey (pretty much Gladiator's same honour-stricken pillar of righteous heroism with a penchant for despising humour), just one of an assortment of an all-manly-men British sea-crew, who battle the waves, scurvy and the dirty French on a day-to-day basis.

To describe an actual plot is fairly impossible because I don't actually remember one having existed. Sure, Aubrey teaches some of his fairy-winkle shipmates to fend for themselves against the take-no-prisoners crew taking advantage of their waning authority and Dr. Stephen Maturin persists to visit the Galapagos Islands to explore the multitudes of diverse new life. There are even a few random naval brawls amidst the drunken feasts, complete with life-changing, epiphany-laden (I'm sure) opportunities for youngsters to take control along the way. Oh, and I seem to remember a coastal shopping spree where the crew stocked up on South American native goods and perhaps a few ship-restoration scenes. And oh, those forty-second sailing ship zoom-outs!

If you're thinking this sounds the least-bit riveting, and not the least bit bland or repetitive, then, by all means, make your way to the nearest theatre for the film equivalent of a drawn-out, theme-heavy but horrendously tension-free novel of gargantuan proportions.

If you're still awake when the credits finally begin to roll, just remember you can be held partially responsible for the box office success of Master and Commander and that your unfortunate interest will likely result in the consequent potential adaptations of any of the umpteen other Patrick O'Brian sea-set misadventures surely to scourge their way to a theatre and bore us further to tears. Just you remember that.

Master and Commander is heavy-handed Oscar bait that's a whole lot less than the sum of its beautiful parts (picture perfect scenery, almost too subtle naval accuracy and spicy vernacular dialogue) and the musical score is a washed-up disappointment that manages to afflict the film with its glaring continuity holes.

As far as tall-tale watery epics go, this insomnia cure should have taken a few pages from the swashbuckling script of Pirates of the Caribbean.

Rating: 2 1/2 stars out of 5

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:17 PM

Well, clearly, some folks got it and some don't. I am willing to wager that Guest-who-fears-her-own-name is among those who have never been to sea.

There is nothing inappropriate about using the French as the opposition -- it is true to the book and the history of the time. To cast that as opportunism is just silly,


A

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:24 PM

Loved the film, eh Amos?

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:26 PM

No -- I haven't seen it yet. I intend to do so, however.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:57 PM

I couldn't tell what the film was about from the trailers, and said that to the people I went with--I cast my vote for going to see "Mystic River" and lost. Having Seen the film, I can now state with certainty I haven't a clue as to what this film is about. It is a plotless behemoth, which bored me senseless. And I really enjoyed both men in "A Beautiful Mind" too, otherwise I'd never have gone along for the ride.

This film may be very authentic in navy history detail, but the story is so bad, the earnest arrogance and self-righteous bastardness of the characters so phony, that I can also honestly say this film had all the emotional and intellectual truth of 40s war propaganda films, which is what it felt like to me. If John Wayne had ever made a film about being a swash buckling British sea captain, this would have been the movie for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 01:14 PM

Now, Mystic River -- there's a hardboiled beauty of a movie. Go see it if you can!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 03:15 PM

Amos, I am determined to see "Mystic River" though I don't know if I'll get to see it in theatres. I so rarely get out to the theatres, which is why I felt so damn burned by wasting three precious hours of my hurried and harried life, not to mention my limited budget, on this bloated, nonsensical Hollywood crap. These days, I'm lucky if I get out to movie theatres about every three months or so. The last film I saw was "Pirates of the Caribbean" which I thoroughly enjoyed. Especially the ironic, yet campy play between the Rush and Depp characters--it reminded me of the play between the Dustin Hoffman and Bob Hoskins characters in "Hook" (which Hoffman described as them playing a couple of old queens). They weren't really parodying the genre, as much as doing a very entertaining tongue-in-cheek sort of commentary on the genre, if you know what I mean.

So I went to see FSOTW, despite all my misgivings about it, and now bitterly regret it! So buyer beware! Don't believe the advertising about this film, disguised as pop movie criticism! Ebert and Roeper are both full of it when it comes to this film--it truly, truly has no discernible plot, and you just have to suffer along through plodding, endless subplot after plodding, endless subplot...and it is most certainly NOT a story about two friends, Capt Jack Aubrey and whazzizname...did I mention this movie drags on interminably? ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: artbrooks
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 03:30 PM

Let's see...eight for, one against, and several "can't waits."

I only problem I had with it was a personal one...my hearing isn't that good, so I missed some of the dialogue during the storm and battle scenes. My solution will be to buy the DVD as soon as it comes out.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 03:36 PM

Well artbrooks, majority rules in some rather unsavory situations, like the Jonestown massacre where everyone obediently took their medicine. However, the end result probably wasn't what they hoped it would be when they signed on to "just go along" with the majority at the Jones camp.

After going along with the majority, and seeing this film, I know how the few survivors must have felt.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 03:48 PM

LOL!! Dear Guest, cheer up -- if all you ever had were pleasant experiences your critical faculties would never be properly exercised!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 03:57 PM

You do speak the truth Amos. And of course, it is always in that noble spirit that I (very rarely) go against my own best instincts and go along with the majority vote as to which film we will see for our evening's entertainment.

The last time I followed those noble instincts, I fell asleep in the middle of the first Harry Potter film.

Subject: RE: BS: Master and Commander FSOTW reviews
From: DonMeixner
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 05:13 PM

Amos, I wasn't correcting you. The ocean sequences are seamless I couldn't tell what was computer generated from what wasn't. Tho' common sense tells me that no film crew would be allowed to film in the Straits of Magellan during a gale.

One of the few momments in my life when I am caught off guard by a person with an obvious political bent involves this film. The Ultra conservative, ultra homophobic, utra wierd Michael Savage called this film a advertisement for NAMBLA. (Why I found myself listening to him is unexplainable even by me.) I found this film no more homosexually innuendoized than The Deerhunter, The Bounty, or Lonesome Dove. Or Star Trek, the Kirk, Spock, McCoy trangle must be considered homo-something by someone.

The plot is simple. It is a chase. What more of a plot need there be. The David after the Goliath. The underdog victorious over the superior adversary. The good guy after the bad guy. "High Noon" didn't have much of a plot. "The Enemy Bellow" was equally thin so was "The African Queen". But they seemed to be good movies to me.

The movie did the job for me. I was entertained by the film for 2+ hours and at least three days by this thread.

Don.