BS: A Moral Dilemma

Subject: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Mickey191
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 08:04 PM

This test has 0nly one question. By giving an honest answer you will discover where you stand morally. The test features an unlikely situation, in which you will have to make a decision. Remember that your answer needs to be honest, yet spontaneous.   Ready?  
You're in Miami. There is chaos around you, caused by a   hurricane and floods of biblical proportions. You are a photojournalist working for a major newspaper, trying to shoot career-making photos. There are houses and people swirling around you, some disappearing under the water. Nature is showing all its destructive fury.   You see a man in the water; he is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken away with the water and debris. You move closer. Somehow he looks familiar. Suddenly, you realize ... it's George W. Bush!  At the same time you notice that the raging waters are about to take him under, forever. You have two options. You can save the life of George W.   Bush, or you can shoot a Pulitzer Prize winning photo documenting the death of one of the world's most powerful men. Now, here's the question: Would you use color film, or go with the classic simplicity of black and white?

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 08:16 PM

The mere thought of that disgusts me!

Colour or Black and white indeed!

There is only one moral postion in this suituation! Digital Video! That way I would have a complete record which you could play back very very slowly savouring each second!

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:13 PM

:~(

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:22 PM

Is this a trick question, 'er what? You're gonna shoot what ever you got.... Ain't no time fir thinking Pulitzer here. JUst shoot the piccure, dangit...

Sniff... So Gorgie Porgie done drowned? Man, this is real bad. Think President Cheney here, folks!!!! Yikes.......

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:27 PM

Man overboard!!! Throw him a life preserver!!!

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:32 PM

Bobert, Cheney been the Prez from day one. The smirking doofus just runs interference for him.

Subject: A Moral Dilemma II
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:33 PM

Think President Cheney here, folks!!!! Yikes

So you're a heart surgeon, Cheney has just been informed of Bush's demise and has been rushed to your care following the inevitible heart attack. Your portfolio contained mostly Enron stock and you lost a son in Iraq.......

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:23 PM

:(....always save a life if you can. The hell with the picture.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:48 PM

I wouldn't piss on the Resident if he was on fire, whether I was taking a photo or not.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 11:02 PM

There was a joke going around after the Shrub stole the election that said, Dick Cheney might die of a heart attack and then George Bush would be president. I'm not sure which of those @#$%^&**&^%$@!!!!!!!! is the brains of the outfit. I am sure that I couldn't think of cusswords that were worthy of those two *&^%$#!@#<:*&^%!!! and have been forced to resort to punctuation marks.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:06 AM

Mickey,

we all now by now your feelings for Bush. So here's a real dilemma for you:

You are drifting in a river and hear already the waterfall coming closer. Your last chance is the bridge close to the fall and that there is someone on the bridge throwing you a lifebelt. You see a man on the bridge but he seems to be lost in thoughts. When you open your mouth to shout for help you recognise the profile: It is George W. Bush.

Now what do you do? You wouldn't want to have to be grateful to this man for the rest of your life even if only for this one act, would you?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Dr Will C U Now
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:12 AM

Does the vid have sound?
Glub glub glub......

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:25 AM

Ha! Of course an actual photojournalist would have several cameras ready at hand, some loaded with color, some with B&W, so the dilemma Mickey191 poses has that ring of authority. The video would be shot by the cameraman accompanying the local news anchor. There may even be a sound engineer with a microphone on a long pole that could be extended out towards the Resident to better capture his last dying gasps. Of course the engiineer would be very careful not to get any water on an expensive microphone.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 12:38 PM

It would be a criminal act of moral dereliction to take a photograph in these circumstances.   Put your foot on his face,

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Mickey191
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 12:46 PM

Hi Wolfgang, Of course I'm taking the belt from the man on the bridge. Self preservation is a natural part of our psyche. And as George is pulling me up, I know where his thoughts are. He's thinking of all the publicity & kudos he will get for saving this Democrat's life.

After the photo shoot I will fade into the woodwork and still do my best to get this guy out of public life.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 01:11 PM

This is nasty. The moral dilemma is clear... Do you personally blame a figurehead for the workings of a much larger picture? And the follow up... Do you feel qualified to pass judgement on any fellow human being? ...especially in these circumstances involving life and death? For Shame!

Yes, George Bush has done terrible harm to the world and it's citizens... He's been catapulted into his own 'peter principle'... 'sbeen a bully, and a lousy public speaker... His policies are nationalistic and fascist seeds for a very 'well organized' future for all dominary sociopaths... He has passed the buck back to the 'cold war' industries, and set environmental technology back fourty years as well... while at the same time, evaluing war as the 'prime' negotiating tool... And he's 'selling short' the American economy for one last big oil boom...

Though he could stand up to the machine that makes him seem 'presidential'... he doesn't have the courage to 'let out his dirty laundry' that they safely keep in the 'spin cycle'...

However... the 'dilemma' behind this thread is disgusting. ;^( ttr

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Mickey191
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 05:41 PM

Thomas, the original post is a humorous premise. Sorry the humor is lost on you. There is no doubt in my mind that all the posters would save his life were it at risk - just as I would. Lighten up.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 06:01 PM

LMAO! The answer of course is ALWAYS black and white......strictly speaking of personal film choices, of course! *G* Besides, flooding waters and that kind of scene are all pretty gray anyway....color would be a waste of time! Black and white.....that brings character to the picture!!!   LOL..funny!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 06:24 PM

Can we ask him to surface again it we don't get the picture quite right.........

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 06:50 PM

Just because a jerk is laughing, doesn't mean that the joke is funny... and, just because a jerk 'doesn't get it', doesn't make a joke funnier... Yes, I can admit that your humor is lost on me mickey191... and yes, I'm glad... But don't mind me... go ahead and wish death and humiliation on all kinds of people... I'm sure they will thank you for it later on! ;^)

Yikes! Yeh... Hilarious... Lighten up and get dark with Mickey191... funniest premise yet!

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Mickey191
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 06:54 PM

Who ate the jam off your bread? You must be a joy to live with.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Mickey191
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 07:11 PM

Shanghaiceltic, I've heard one always bobs up & down three times before its over. Keep snapping-you'll get a good one.

Michelle, I agree, it must be black & white. Then you can call it "A Study in ......" Were it in color it wouldn't work!

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 07:17 PM

No difficulty in my choice. I would throw George a Lead life jacket. And then take the photograph.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 07:37 PM

Ideal answer Gareth!

Sure, I can be a 'hard case' at times Mickey191... but you're better off with me than the 'nodding' alternative... But then... what is your track record? ;^)

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 07:53 PM

Well, of course, I'd try to save him. He's a human being. Besides, he's just a figurehead, in my opinion. I disapprove of his policies enormously, but I highly doubt that he is the primary motive force behind them. When he's gone, they'll just find another one. The USA has been practicing grand imperialism ("Manifest Destiny") ever since 1812 or even earlier than that. I don't think George Bush is crucial to maintaining that aspect of national character.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Mickey191
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 08:08 PM

Thomas,

Your Own Words:
(my comments in brackets)
-----
I've got the social skills of an idiot, because I am one...
(I'll agree with that)
-----
I've got a sense of humour that is unpredictable and spontanious, ..
(whoever told you that was kidding)
-----
I come across as though my head is vacant...
(Hardly, but you must inculcate humor in the vacant areas)
-----
At work, I do amazing feats, and I talk about it freely... to myself......
(Perhaps therapy would help that)
-----
I'm seen as judgemental...
(Got that right)
------
Now Thomas, what do you mean by my track record? Glad to tell you anything if it will help you. Mickey191

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 08:37 PM

If you guys are lookin' to fight a duel over this, I can provide fresh-peeled bananas, seconds, and an enthusiastic audience of screeching chimps and monkeys...

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 08:56 PM

Mickey191... I never thought that anyone could 'show up' Bush's conciet and single minded meanness... but by golly, you've done it! Congradulations!

...therapy didn't work... I proved to be too ordinary and boring. ;^)
ttr

P.S. LittleH... There's nothing to fight about here... Mickey191's morbidity is abhorent to me... end of story. I'll just shut up about it, and remain kind.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 09:19 PM

Humor AND irony impaired, I see, and holier than thou about it too.

Heavy sigh.

Give it a rest, will you Thomas the Rhymer, you moralistic, "kind" passive aggressive jerk.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 09:40 PM

OK Guest, I will... *snicker*... you're SO cute!

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 01:12 AM

I heard a funny joke today on Fresh Air. It only ties in if Dubya is a S. Baptist, but chances are he is:



Why don't Southern Baptists have sex standing up?

Because someone might think they are dancing!

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 05:02 AM

Maybe I can lead the discussion away from the fight by taking the first post dead serious but giving a slightly different response from Thomas.

Let's suppose the man was Hitler in 1943: I wouldn't save him.
Let's suppose the man was Bush in 2004: I would save him.

What's the difference? I wouldn't save a person that I would murder if I could (assuming for a moment I wouldn't be afraid to risk my life). With extremely few exceptions I'm against murder in politics (and, of course, for private reasons). But when I agree with murdering the worst of tyrants I have to agree in this case that not saving him is morally right for me.

Wolfgang

(What would you do if you saw a Turk about to drown in a river? That's how some recent German Neonazi jokes start. One of the response is: I'd take a picture)

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 06:25 AM

If TTR is as solemn and responsible as he implies, how can he fall in so easily with the idea of throwing a drowning man a lifejacket made of lead? Or was that just his wicked sense of humour peeking through?

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: GUEST,Buffy the Hamster slayer
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 06:43 AM

What if.............. Hamsters were 9foot tall?

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 08:14 AM

I find it ridiculous to claim that because jokes get co-opted, adapted, and molded to fit the worldview of people telling the joke (ie Wolfgang's example of the joke in the opening of this thread being common among neo-Nazis), that we shouldn't tell the joke.

Same for the joke cited by SRS, which has been around forever (sorry SRS, no comment on you, it is a funny joke, but I heard this one about 10 or so years ago). I've heard it about Baptists in the southern US and Calvinists in Scotland. Of course, as some of us know, the former has it's cultural roots in the later, which makes the joke easy to spread through those cultures.

Really, it is just a joke. Jokes often are dark because humor, and dark humor especially, is a good way to cope with the terrible things that happen in life. Whenever people respond to what is obviously meant to be a harmless joke about a detested politiican, as if it were a racist or sexist joke, or a tasteless joke about someone with disabilities, or some such, it quickly becomes clear that one is in the presence of literal moralists who just plain don't get and/or can't appreciate the cleverness or irony of the joke. It is usually the Pollyanna, I see the world through my "NICE" lense, sort of people who don't like ambiguity, grey areas and all that.

The inability of such people to find humor in the original post's joke is a sad commentary on them, though. Not the joke teller.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Pseudolus
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 08:50 AM

A conversation you'll never hear....

ttr: Mickey, that joke about the president was disgusting and tasteless and it doesn't belong here...

M191: Omigod, you're right!! I take everything back, I'm so ashamed!!


....and yet the fight continues..... :)


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:10 AM

Yikes!   I read this thread and thought of it as a JOKE....not that anyone would seriously get their panties in a wad.....perhaps I'm a bit naive, but I think there aren't too many people who would actually let another human being drown. Geez...here I was thinking this was a bullsh*t thread....you know, not necessarily serious. Maybe some folks just don't get along with the original poster and feel that he must be shunned at every turn or something.

I read it as a joke and responded in a like manner. Gee whiz people, LIGHTEN UP!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: GUEST,Lilyfestre at School
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:10 AM

Oops...forgot to sign in for the previous post...it's me...Lilyfestre, aka Michelle. :)

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Pseudolus
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 03:21 PM

I totally agree Michelle. Unfortunately some folks can't help but try to decide what's funny and what's not. It was a damn funny thread for a while until we were told it wasn't.....bummer......


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 02:15 AM

I would save GWB and forget the photograph. The publicity I would get would be immense and I could make megabucks from my memoirs when they were serialised in the tabloid press.

Doug C

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 02:49 AM

Dear Doug,

If you save him, you have to feed him.

BBruce MM

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:15 AM

Worse still, you have to be responsible for him!


A

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:54 PM

Then there's this one:

It was George W's first night in the White House. The spirit of Washington came to him.
Father of our country! the shrub said, "What advice can you give me?"
"Maintain an honest administration," said Washington.
The next night the spirit of Jefferson came to him.
"Author of the Declaration of Independence! What advice can you give me!"
"Remember the working man," Jefferson said.
On his third night he was visited by the spirit of Lincoln. "At last, a fellow Republican! Honest Abe what advice do you give me?" asked the Shrub.
"Take in a show," said Lincoln.
Sic semper shrubs.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:16 AM

shoot him twice, just to be sure.







Actually, I once played the part of GWB. I was on a camping trip, and we were crossing a deep and COLD, braid in a river on a narrow tree branch. I fell in, and was swept to one bank. My rescuer paused to take a picture of my plight before volunteering his aide. I was hypothermic.

But I was somehow pleased to find out a few weeks later that his photos didn't come out.

Subject: RE: BS: A Moral Dilemma
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:23 AM

A painting I did relates to this discussion on many levels:

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/rope1.jpg