What is wicca all about

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:47 PM

Erm if the other piper is supposedly gar then I will personally kill him for you.....

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST,the REAL Pied Piper
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:44 PM

Peeps i didn't write that earlier comment...i will KILL the person who did that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't even have a comp in Feb. 4th
I i supposedly make another comment besides this one..its most likely NOT me. I am sorry anyway even though i didn't write it.

the_pied_piper20002004

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:41 PM

I figure the quality and usefullness of Wicca rests largely in the consciousness and intentions of the one practicing it...as with all religions.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST,WanderingSoul
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:30 PM

Wow Piper.........Thats mean.......and I know you........Wicca is a study that has more power and beauty to it then many can understand. You shouldn't insult in......

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:35 PM

I celebrated Halloween with a wiccan friend some years back. My main worry during the ceremony was when she lit the sacred fire in the sacred cauldron. She set fire to a cauldron full of dried herbs and scented oils and the flame shot up three feet. I was scared witless she'd burn the house down. Fortunately the fire stayed in the cauldron.
At the end of the ceremony, Topaz, the priestess's attack cat, pounced out from under the altar, and went after everybody's bare feet. There was some cursing, but not of a magical nature.
The cat lived to a ripe old age.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 05:45 PM

Etymological note:

(Haven't read through the whole thing, so forgive me if I'm duplicating anything that anyone else has said.)

Wicca (or wicce) is an Englisc (Anglo-Saxon to you lot) word. It is correctly pronounced "witch-a", not "wicker" as in modern speech. Yes, wicca is the word that became witch, but it had a very different resonance for the original speakers! The neo-pagan 'definition' of the word has only a small connection to the original usage.

I'm not, by any means, an expert on Wicca (with a capital W), but my limited contact with it suggests that it is a modern mish-mash, rehash, & 'revival' of older beliefs, often from several different cultures (I've seen/heard celtic, germanic & egyptian strands mixed together by some). That's never mind Gardner, Alexander, or even Crowley!

As I understand it, it's nature worship, but it is also a modern amalgam of not necessarily compatible threads. An awful lot seems to depend on the individual beliefs of the given practitioner. {shrug} I'm not being perjorative here. Personally, I prefer to try to follow the unalloyed original (& I merely walk the path, I don't attempt to practice the arts), but the essence of paganism, IMHO, is that with the multiplicity of available gods & traditions, the responsibility is yours to find the right path. There is no bible or Q'ran to lay down the inviolable law, no priest, of any stripe, to insist that you must, or that you are sinful...

Priests are an irrelevance, as far as I'm concerned. Get it wrong, & I'm sure the gods will find some way to let you know. If you're lucky, it'll be before you're dead... ;)

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST,Oh heck
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 10:54 AM

"In my experience, not very many neo-pagans, witches, Wiccans, what have you, are very well-informed about their own tradition or community's history. This leads to a whole lot of confusion when laypeople seek to find out more"

Thanks for that peg, I think this is were the thread started, confusion, so what chance the un-educated, ah well...

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST,Witch is rite: W or M?
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 07:02 PM

Thank you Micca for those technical terms for my condition. I must have dubyaWMixlexia. I got to go through the medical journals a look all three waladies, darn, maladies up.

WM/mw

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Micca
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 06:36 PM

I think you have Wixlexia, or is that Mixlexia? I occasionally get my wucking mords Fuddled too!!!

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST,Witch is rite: W or M?
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:54 PM

"What is wicca all about"

I don't know him personally, but Micca is well known here by most and..er.. I get my dubyas' and m's flipped. There has got to be name for that condition, what is it, not dyslexia, is it?

Anymays, I aw pretty sure Wicca er, Micca, ain't a marlock and he ain't a mitch, ah, witch for sure!

Sorry Micca, I just could not resist.

Factoid: M is an upside down W.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Peg
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:25 PM

Kendall: you have not been hanging out at the right campsites.

Peter: some things are more sacred than others.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Peg
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:23 PM

leads to a lengthy set of definitions and explanations that is pretty good! very up to date with the latest scholarship which is always nice to see...

you sometimes find some witches who call themselves "wiccan" when they really aren't..and the opposite is also true, some people who practice Wicca prefer to call themselves witches....I personally find the use of the word 'wiccan" as a noun or adjective to be a misnomer as neither Gardner nor Sanders ever used it that way....
In my experience, not very many neo-pagans, witches, Wiccans, what have you, are very well-informed about their own tradition or community's history. This leads to a whole lot of confusion when laypeople seek to find out more, to find the one true answer to questions they may have. A rampant eclecticism has characterized this modern religious path from the beginning...and it will probably always be so.

Modern pagans are those interested in, among other things, and not necessarily including the following:
the concept of nature as sacred or divine, alternative spirituality, maybe performing the occasional ritual or spell or seasonal festival, meditation and herbalism...maybe they are into tarot cards or runes...maybe they attend the occasional pagan gathering...maybe they believe in karma and reincarnation...but they are not witches. There are also a number of ceremonial magicians and even some Satan worshippers out there; but they are not witches either. But there is no moratorium on the use or non-use of this word. Anyone can do anything and call themselves anything they want, ya know?

John Salvi thought he was a good little Catholic, for example...

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: NobleSavage
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:58 PM

A quick search (thanks google!) provides this item--what do our local witches think?


http://www.wordiq.com/cgi-bin/knowledge/lookup.cgi?title=Wicca

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: NobleSavage
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:52 PM

Hi, daylia--

As I understand it, wicca itself has pretty definite boundaries, Gardnerian, Alexandrian being the main subsets that I am aware of.

Then, you have people like Raymond Buckland who seems to have started his own path--I recall reading that he was initiated into Gardnerian wicca and then went his own way. I'm sure there are many people who took the same route--initated into say, Gardnerian or Alexiandrian wicca and then evolved something that kept the basic principles while modifying some to create something different.

I think what we need here is to define what is wicca and what isn't.

I cannot do that as I am not wiccan--perhaps someone who is an active practiconer of such, (or who knows more that I do) could be so helpful as to dileanate for us the difference between wicca and non-wicca.

I do know that not all witches are wiccan. Also, that many who claim the name wiccan do not follow the practices recognised by wiccans as wicca.

Again, the core question: How do we tell wicca from generic neopagan witchcraft?

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:55 PM

As a Christian, who's been debating with a Muslim-turned-Wiccan, I'd say that Wicca is a nature-based religion, though my friend did add that she believed in the Goddess and Genesis 1. She just couldn't get the original sin part (and then ranted about Wiccans being lumped in with atheists in the census). Either Wicca is a real religion that opens up the possibility of becoming a witch, or she is a much better liar than I gave her credit for...

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: *daylia*
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:42 PM

Peter, kendall :-) !!

catsPHiddle, you're right ... the word "Wiccan" is used so loosely it seems to mean "witch" rather than a member of what is now a recognized religious denomination. In my understanding of Wicca, I've always used "Wiccan" to mean a practitioner of either the Alexandrian or Gardnerian traditions, someone who's been accepted and initiated into a Wiccan coven.

I've run into problems with one of the locals because I continue to refuse to pass myself off as a "Wiccan" and teach "Wiccan" classes for her! I keep telling her that even though I've studied Wicca from books, and have practiced certain Wiccan ways on my own for years, that does NOT make me "Wiccan" or qualify me in any way to teach their traditions.   

Maybe it's time to ease up a little, then.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Midchuck
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:43 AM

Kendall, I've known you for years, but I've never seen you naked. What am I doing right?

Peter.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 09:39 AM

LOL Kendall!

Daylia, alot of people call themselves Wiccan, they could be Gardnerian, Alexandrian, a Hedgewitch, Traditional or eccletic. It seems that the word Wicca or Wiccan is now used to mean the word Witch. I don't use the term Wiccan to describe myself, just Witch. If people then gone on to ask sensible questions then I am mostly happy to answer their curiosities.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: kendall
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 09:05 AM

I've known Peg for years, but I've never seen her naked. What am I doing wrong?

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: *daylia*
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 07:48 AM

It does?? I found this box of kittens on the side of the road once, right beside this empty one ... oh never mind ....

Noble Savage, would you tell us something about the "many paths of Wicca" then? Did you mean Alexandrian vs Gardnerian Wicca? I don't know of any other "subdivisions" within Wicca itself.

Within any group there are often certain individuals whose attitudes and behaviors cast the rest in an unfavorable light. Maybe it's these people Beast is roaring about.

There are only a handful of people calling themselves "Wiccan" (???) in my area. Unfortunately, what Beast said DOES ring a few bells about a few - certainly not all but a FEW - of these people.   I've no problem with Wiccan beliefs and enjoy practicing select "Wiccan ways" myself, but those few individuals hold key positions in the pagan community here, and truthfully, they are one of the main reasons I continue to prefer "Hermit" mode.

daylia

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 06:47 PM

An empty vessel always makes the most noise

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 04:37 PM

Hi Peg! Good to see you on the forum again. I fully agree with you. There is alot of ignorance, if these people were truely interested they would do some research and not stereotype people and their beliefs.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: NobleSavage
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:41 PM

Beast--

To which path of wicca do you refer? There are many, and they are not all alike.

It sounds as though you are confusing wicca with something else.

Perhaps you can provide us with objective evidence we can all examine here.

Perhaps not.

I venture to say that if you were to demonstrate more respect in the way you phrase your assertions, you would enjoy more positive reactions.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 01:54 PM

that was me, by the way, on kendall's computer.
peg

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 01:53 PM

I don't even know where to begin. So much ignorance and misunderstanding, but that is nowhere near as disturbing as the amount of sheer bigotry and stupidity.

Thanks to those trying to steer the morons and misanthropes towards some amount of understanding; but you may be wasting your words.

Most neo-pagans are bibliophiles. That oughtta tell ya something.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:33 PM

There goes this thread...

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 07:20 AM

I hope Peg sees this last post.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST,The Beast
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 06:33 AM

Wicca is usually about man-hating lesbians who dream of being roasted (or their great-great-great-great-great-great grandmothers etc being roasted) by the Inquisition in a past life (or several) creating a "religion" to vent their paranoid delusions.

Wicca even offers the possibility of suing rich institutions (like the RC Church) for "what they did to poor ole granny" 500 hundred years ago. So you'd never have to work again! You could spend the rest of your days dancing naked around a bonfire under the full moon instead!

Who could ask for more?

Wicca is also about people who lack the self-discipline or mental capacity to undertake a serious study of the occult sciences/Western esoteric tradition, but still want to have fun playing with "power" and casting "spells". (Till they burn themselves, anyway).

And Wicca's great for soothing the souls of the "Ladies of the Night", who get to view their profession a whole new way .... as "Goddess-work"!

Any more questions?

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: NobleSavage
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 06:12 AM

Boab--

I'm having trouble understanding your comment.

What do you mean by 'believable' in connection with the mention of Mr. Hutton?

Which 'Hutton' are you refering to?

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 05:48 AM

Then there is the other new religion, Jedi....

Proliferation of fishes looking for little ponds, perhaps?

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:41 AM

Not THE "Hutton" surely,Noblesavage? We'd like to read something believeable----

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 11:43 PM

It is really called Ricca, but it was invented by a guy who was speaking with his mouth full

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Melani
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 11:01 PM

Having been brought up as a rather low-key Protestant, I tend to like religions that have fancy clothes and fun props. There are a lot of them, and you can pick and choose. It's all just another view of the same thing. Wicca is as good as any and better than some, and a lot more fun.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: NobleSavage
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 11:25 AM

The best information about Wicca (specifically) and neopaganism(generally) is a book by one Ronald Hutton entitled "Triumph of the Moon".

Mr. Hutton is a professor of history at the University of Bristol. The book deals with what is really known about the roots of neopaganism. He has a separate chapter on Wicca.

It was published in 1999, so it should be readily available by now--most public libraries have a copy.

Refreshingly, Mr. Hutton confines himself to the facts wherever possible and does not represent opinion as fact.

I think it wise to get all the factual information about belief systems generally and especially about the ones we may disagree with before posting ill informed and derogatory opinions concerning things we know nothing about.

A little respect goes a long way. . .

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 12:00 AM

None of the witches I know do their rituals in the buff. My sister says she went to a wiccan gathering that was led by a man with "A stomach big enough to be introduced by name" wearing nothing but a small piece of plaid fabric covering the essentials. Most of the wiccans I know have a sense of humor about their religion.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:23 PM

Naked!!!!

Someone said naked?

Where, When, How, Now?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:52 PM

The value of Wicca, like that of all other faiths, is in the qualities and attitude of the adherent or practitioner.

Therefore, anything you say about it...bad or good...may be true under certain circumstances.

As belief systems go, I find it a rather open-minded and likeable one, with a lot of good possibilities.

The founders of Wicca probably did not anticipate ever recruiting Clinton Hammond... :-) He thinks it's mainly about "selling stuff". Well, anything which is of interest to some human beings sells stuff, doesn't it? Speaking of which, Clinton, I've got some great New Age books here to offer you at reduced prices. I've also got a hat that Bob Dylan wore in the early '60's, and it's still got some of his scalp oils on it, and maybe a wee bit of dandruff. PM me for a good deal on both.

- LH

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Nerd
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:57 PM

Grab,

I don't think there's a big problem with claiming that there are traditions that developed since the 1950s. eg: "we have a tradition in my family of singing at the holidays" often just means for the last ten years or so. "Traditional" in the folk music world has specific connotations that it may not have elsewhere. But even in folk music, you're apt to hear that Cropredy is a tradition, for example.

It's true that much of Wiccan belief and practice is newfangled. Most Wiccans are very honest about this, but some make claims to greater antiquity than is warranted for various of their practices. Many are more interested in the spirituality of it than in the history, so thay haven't done the research to know what is truly old and what is new. Much of the early research on what was called the "witch cult" of ancient and medieval Europe wasn't really that convincing anyway. In this sense, you could say "it's all a load of bollocks."

But I'm always puzzled why members of other religions are so disparaging of newer ones. "It can't be a tradition, it's too young" is only the mildest form of this disparagement. The more stringent form is PP's, above. Why do you folks have to pee on other people's campfires?

Gargoyle's is, of course, the paranoid, Urban-Legend version, in which neo-pagans sacrifice humans. (You should read Jeff Victor's book "Satanic Panic" on this, Garg.)

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: kendall
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:35 PM

If God wanted us to go naked, we would be born that way.

"There is nothing more scary than ignorance in action." (Goethe')

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Bobjack
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM

Post no 100, I thank you. you have made an old guinea pig very happy! Oh, sorry, wrong thread.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Grab
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 12:27 PM

"Tradition developed since the 1950s"?!?!

Electric guitar has been going for roughly the same time. I think that if you suggested electric guitar was a traditional instrument, you would get some real interesting replies! ;-) Hence I don't see how wicca can have a "tradition" - it simply hasn't existed long enough.

Graham.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 10:11 AM

Squawk.
eric

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Bobjack
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:04 AM

Good idea daylia. I have just been to the febuary yorkshire mudcat gathering. should we organize . "FEB YORKSHIRE PUDCAT GATHERING" We could all turn up wearing our regional dishes. Top hole idea I think.

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: *daylia*
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:58 AM

Better yet, in the spirit of true community, invite your pub-mates to lick it off you!

Oh, and post some pictures of this memorable moment, willya pleeeez?    ;)

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Bobjack
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:16 AM

You chicken! You could wear the pudding to keep you warm then eat it later in the pub. a slow strip tease, yorkshire style

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:11 AM

I suppose if it was a big fire and I'd had plenty Yorkshire pudding,
byt then again nah bollocks.
eric

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Bobjack
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 07:41 AM

Why not eric? We could set fire to a tree and dance around it to keep warm

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 07:38 AM

I'm not getting my kit off in February in Yorkshire, well at least not outside.
eric

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: Bobjack
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:30 AM

ooh er missus, how do I join?

Subject: RE: What is wicca all about
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:21 AM

Why do people seem to get hung-up on a bit of nudity these days, I had a friend who was/is a witch she gets involved with the nuddy bit, SO WHAT, you can see it on prime time television every day of the week. I'm sure it all means something to them if they are not causing harm to others why bother about it. If they want to explain they will if not they wont, simple really