BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....

Subject: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 07:47 PM

Oh, the champayne corks are poppin' thru out Boss Hogdom tonight. Yep, after the 60 year battle to end Social Security the light is at the end of their tunnel...

Today, Alan Greenspan, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank announced that, with the severe deficit, that Social Security is going to have to me scaled back.

Like who didn't see this coming? I sure did. The Bush folks have done everything in their power to bankrupt the country so they could hold up their hands and say, "Sorry folks, we're broke!"

So fir those of you who have worked all your lives and paid into the "SYSTEM" and thought that you'd have that $962 a month to look forward to when you reach 65 years old, ofrget it... Welcome to Bush/Enron's America...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Deckman
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 07:54 PM

I certainly noticed Greenspan's heads up about this. It's been a long time coming. In my opinion, there is not going to be ONE congressman who has the balls to vote to CUT S.S. benifits. Congressmen know it would be instant political death. I can't help but wonder if Greenspan is trying to speak for the ultra conservitive right wing of the republican party, and giving another warning to President bush about how unhappy they are with him. There are so many ironies here. Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Amergin
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 07:59 PM

I think it would cut the deficit alot more if they cut back the military spending....but you can't have that i suppose...not with all those heathen countries just waiting to be conquered...uh I mean liberated...

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:03 PM

Or, Bob, this could just be a little "softening up" so that when it does come down the pike we won't be able to say we didn't know anything. I noticed that both Greenspan and Bush used *identical* language on the news tonight which tells me that they are in cohoots.

As fir the Congressmen? Hey, manipulate enough information and a reduction could get passed 390-2, with a few absaining. IT could become one of them "Patriotic" issues.

"On 9/11 out country was attacked and we're fighting those Terrorists back for your safety and security and we're all in this together..."

Blah, blah, blah...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 10:59 PM

Gee - and how much has Iraq cost so far? Not to mention, Afghanistan.

...and now they want you to pay for it out of your retirement fund?

Is Bush trying to start a civil war?

d

Keep your cool. He wants you to riot in the streets so he can justify shooting you.

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 11:43 PM

I never expected to receive Social Security. I'm retired from the (US) Federal Civil Service. As one of the provisions of that program, I am not entitled to receive the Social Security benefits that I earned from other employment before I went to work for the Feds. There is a formula, of course, to figure out the net benefits payable...in my case, it is $zero.

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Art Thieme
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 12:16 AM

As someone once said, "We got a lot o' knives an' forks. We gotta cut something."

You wanna see anger, gut Social Security and you watch whose gonna get cut.

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 02:23 AM

From the small amount of stuff I've read, Greenspan and Bush don't get along all that well... My take on what Alan has done here... He is firing a warning shot. It's as if he's saying "if you had any doubts left about whether this 'record spending' might come back later and bite our collective US butts... kiss 'em goodby".

They've gutted it alright, Bobert... and there is no one at the helm that has any idea what 'healing arts' might be...

Like most of us expected, the shrub, once a silverspooned devil of a boy... has surely blossomed into a careful considerate conservative...

Well... lak ah said 'back'n tew thiaosand'... "Bush is bunk". And a've bein thinkin' eiat eiver seince. Twizzle TwazzleTwezzle twome... Time for this one... to come home.
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Nerd
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 03:05 AM

BOHICA, folks...

They'll call the elimination of Social Security the "Save our Children Act" or the "Worker Benefit Act" or something. Then they can say "Senator Byrd voted not to Save Our Children..." or "Senator Harkin voted against the important provisions of the Worker Benefit Act."

Hey, we can have healthy forests, clear skies AND worker benefits, right?

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Hrothgar
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 06:16 AM

Must ne a great time to be in Congress.

The options seem to be:

(a) Cut social security
(b) Cut "national security" (military) spending
(c) Increase taxes (or reverse a tax cut - just semantics)

Best of luck, fellers.

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 11:45 AM

well, you can see where the Bushites do NOT intend to cut, and I hope Thomas the Rhymer is right, that Greenspan is just using his voice to lay bare the implications of the Bush policies.

"Keep voting for Bush & his cronies and watch them use up your children's future lining their own pockets and bombing petty dictators."

Now there's a message that will shake up a few!

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 12:02 PM

The AARP is a pretty powerful organization and generally politicians don't like to get them too upset. Could lose 'em the next election. When the Pols diddled with Medicare, they gussied it up to make it look good and managed to slip it past an uncharacteristically gullible AARP, much to the anger and disgust of many of AARP's many members. One began to wonder if the AARP Board of Directors had all gone senile.

But this little number ought to rattle their cage pretty good. To the AARP, messing with Social Security is the Ultimate Sin. If Bush goes along with this, he's toast.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 12:10 PM

Let them eat toast!

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 12:38 PM

Well, it kind of scares me as I will be on disability and there is only me to take care of things. No other help from anyone. Just me....... (scared)!

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 01:11 PM

Well, I'm even madder than I was yesterday becuase I have read this morning that the "exact" word came out of Bush as came out of Greenspan. Word fir word...That couldn't have happened unless these two guys are in cohoots...

And lets not forget who initially appointed Greespan: the Grandfatther of "trickle down vodo economics" himsel.... Ronnie Raygun! And the only reason that Clinton reappointed him is because Clinton was an *old time* Rupublican (unlike the current radicals) when it came to fiscal policies....

Yeah, we've known for some time that Boss Hog hates everything that FDR did and vowed to kill it. This hatred has been apssed down from one silver-spoon piglet to the next and now we seeing all these piglets have grown into folks like their daddys and granddaddies and with their theft of the United Sates government they're gonna be danged sure to finish the mission....

...bankrupt the governemnt and throw up their hands!!!...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 03:49 PM

Bobert, settle down... just cause Bush's handlers know how to cut and paste, doesn't make Greenspan a cahooter... shall we join in in song while the 'ample political rope' thats been given to GWB is put to good use by him? :^)

BTW... notice the new influx of dem. bashing threads? The little henchmen are stirring...
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 04:00 PM

well the first thing that this administration did was a 600$ billion
tax cut (most it went to the top 10% income bracket) - the program
is spread over a few years -
but if thats reversed - that's one place where you can get your money,
(even O'Neill who was fired in his first year - a solid centre republican was opposed to the tax cut)
- trickle down reaganomics where already disproved in the 80's.

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 04:04 PM

I had another term for trickle down--p*$#@d upon!

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: GUEST,garydon
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 04:43 PM

Here is my beef. from the original plan the younger folks pay for the older folks. I've paid for others and now I want to get my payments later. Government should have always kept there mitts out of the SS fund and now they should really get their little grubs out. The SS has been broke anr/or going broke for 40 years.

I've lived through higher SS taxes and they may have to be raised again. Cost of living definitle has gone up. As in the past SS never has a surplus for other spending or borrowing. When they borrowed they robbed (what's new there). They have to pay it back now like right now. there are two sollutions in that rant already if we are willing to look at.

Of course you can always pick apart the spelling and avoid issues too

Just ranting

Thanks    Gary®

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: kendall
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 01:42 PM

Where are our resident conservatives?

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 08:16 PM

some of our resident conservatives are older folks, and are not sure what to make of this latest move, I suspect!

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: freda underhill
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 09:51 PM

something similar is happening in Oz - we have just been told not to expect pensions, and that we will have to keep working until we drop..

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 11:10 PM

Normal, freda.... Same here...Work 'til you drop is the newest policy...

Waht I don't undersatnd is how the the country that has corralled the most wealth in the world now has a government that is preparing us to live live folks in Third World countries...

There is some "fuzzy math" and some serious greed going on...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Mudlark
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 02:30 AM

People in Bush's stratosphere aren't living on SS. They are sitting on vast nest eggs that buffer them from the harsh realities of life in the middle and lower class. Most of the people I know, down here in the trenches, are really scrimping to live on their SS as it is. I'm just hoping if these guys keep piling it on like this enough people will finally see the light and at least change administrations. I don't expect that will make a big difference, but it might slow down the disasters.

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 11:41 AM

People,

When enough of us descend to a low enough level, economically at least, it will open folks' eyes to the facts of life that tell us that the humane and sharing aspects of the New Deal policies to fight "The Depression" really were/are a more humane way to live and to do things. Next, what will happen is that good Democrats will get rich again----and then they will start to bullshit themselves into thinking that their lucky good fortune is due to their own TALENT and is fefinitely God, himself, smiling on them and showing approval --- so they BECOME Republicans !! The next time they drop in monetary value and become Democrats once again, they might even revive the idea that joining together in a UNION might be a good idea so, just maybe, they can achieve something unheard of like an EIGHT HOUR DAY.

When one thing comes "unravelled", there always will be the other side of that coin to fill the void.

If only for pragmatic reasons, I do truly hope that those of us with less have the cajones to rock the boat enough to take what we need from the stolen grain bin billions the Enron/ArthurAndersen tip-o'-the-iceberg thieves have, and are, every day, stealing from us all.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 03:02 PM

Isn't it your money you've invested? If they have used it elsewhere, isn't it their responsibility to pay it back? If they can't, is Greenspan saying the U.S. is bankrupt? Why would he say this? It will surely slow down investment in U.S. markets. I know that when it came time to invest this time around, I steered clear of the U.S. and put my money in Canada and Europe. It doesn't make sense unless it is another form of fear mongering. ie) You better vote Republican because you know the Democrats will never get you out of this financial pickle.

I'm not sure of the rationale, but I do believe it is fear mongering. It seems to be the best tactic Bush has at his disposal. Believe me, his fear mongering will only get worse as the election gets closer.

d

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 10:53 AM

Some 20 years ago Alan Greenspan recommended increasing Social Security taxes so that when the Baby Boomers reached retirement the program would be solvent. Congress apporived the increases and they went into effect. So, like what gives here?

This ain't rocket surgery...

Danged. Even the West Ginny Slide Rule is on top of this one. Someone's had their hand in the cookie jar other than retirees.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 07:04 PM

". . . to secure these rights [Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness], Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." [Emphasis mine—DF]

Things had got so bad before Franklin D. Roosevelt was elected and the New Deal was passed that the United States was much closer to bloody revolution than most people realize. Russia had just had one a decade and a half before, and that was fresh in a lot of people's minds, and not all of them were Marxists. The power that any government has lies ultimately in the consent of the people. And if the people get pissed off enough, "it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government . . . to effect their Safety and Happiness" one way or another. By election if possible, or other methods if that doesn't work.

Greed merchants, war-mongers, and would-be despots would do well to remember that.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Peace
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 07:15 PM

However, there may be one more little thing to throw into the mix. When we look at world economics, has it never struck people that there are x number of dollars to go around, and sooner or later, when lots end up in one pocket, then there aren't all that many left to go around? So, ya got a choice. Print more money (and thus devalue the currency), or hang on to it and what? There's lots of people asking, "Hey, where'd the dollars go?" Right. Look folks, who's got the dollars? Answer that question and you begin to answer the problem.

Money--call it what you will--is either in or out of circulation. Soon as it's out, it ain't bein' used. This isn't rocket science. Our problem is that too few people control too much money. And we have all let them do it!

Subject: RE: BS: 'New Deal' Coming Unraveled....
From: Peace
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 07:25 PM

While I'm on a roll, here, allow me to add to a remark from Don F. Greed is a killer of economies. I recall when a big 'trust' company in Alberta went TU. People were making 20% on their investments. Finally, the whole sham collapsed. I felt no sympathy at all. Hell, everyone else was getting by, and these people are skimming 20% in profit. Shouldn't that tell us something, like maybe everything ain't the way it looks? The biggest perpetrators of this sordid s#it is stock markets. What crap. Invest in this company and make money on child labour in some other place. Shouldn't this tell us something? Our Social Security is taking a beating also. But, the math has been there for years. Ya got x dollars and x people to provide for. The question here isn't one of who did what. The real question is one of 'who has the dollars.' We are not asking the right question. And we are trusting lying bastards to give us honest answers. Death, where is thy sting?