BS: Abdication of parental responsibility

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:51 PM

M.Ted: sorry, my bad. I looked at the post incorrectly -- indeed you didn't say what I quoted.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:14 PM

I have just survived that passage and all I can say is SRS has the rights of it. It is a matter of constant care and attention and never ghetting it as right as you would like to and never getting the results you hope for, but continuing nevertheless, coaching and training in the skills of dealing with all sorts of beastly semi-human interactions (both from peers and from adults) while striving to keep alive the spark of human compassion at the center.

I think we succeeded but it was as much luck as anything else; anyone who is struggling through it is a quiet hero.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:59 PM

John, you've conflated lots of anecdotes and horror stories in your first post to end up with Frankenstein's teenage step-child. It isn't easy raising children, not if you do a good job of it, but if you do a good job if it, it isn't the job from hell, either. I see a healthy cross-section of kids who play with my kids. While some of them can be annoying, my kids know my rules and they don't fail to let their friends know what the house rules are when they come over.

Schools are one of those "lowest common denominator" kinds of places, and there are always bad apples. You do what you can to teach your children how to survive in that environment, and you hope to hell they'll grow and thrive and outlive you. There are children in the middle and high school who are pretty scary, whose parents either aren't paying attention, aren't in control, or who don't care. I think they are the minority.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:36 PM

I have students who ensure that I get a sample of what is prepared in Home Ec, always. They tell me about their lives, struggles and bright spots. I have met very few kids woh do not have redeeming qualities. In fact, in the past 50 years, I'm probably the worst. Got lost in West Edmonto Mall a few years ago. Saw some kids with chains, purple/yellow/green hair and pierced body parts. Tough looking crew. Ask if they could help me find a certain store. First they tried to explain how to get there. I told them I was screwed because I'd never find it. They walked me there, and we had a good conversation on the way.

Met some kids workin' a wipe racket about 10 years ago on Canal Street in NYC at about 10:00 pm. Stopped and asked what they were doin', because I was from Canada and hadn't seen this particular thing before. They talked with me for 20 minutes about their word, themselves and their street life. When my wife and I were leaving, they told us to be careful because the district had a bad reputation. They were the toughest lookin' guys we saw the whole time we were in the city.

I think that if ya treat people with respect, and take a genuine interest in them, they will treat you back with respect. Never seen it be otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:12 PM

With regard to being truant, when my brother was in Elementary school and I was in Junior High, many years ago, he played hookey by sitting in the attic for two weeks, unknown to our single, working mother. For two of those days, I was home sick and I didn't even know he was up there. This was no small feat, as it was a single floor dwelling, our attic didn't have a floor to sit on, just floor joists and insulation and it got incredibly hot up there.

The school assumed he was ill and finally phoned my mother to find out how he was doing. Maybe it was easier back then to play hookey, because the younger grades rarely got homework and my little brother did not talk much of how he was doing on the best of days anyways, he was a fairly quiet introverted child. But there was no way that my mother could have been considered an irresponsible parent, if anything, she was overconcientious, besides work, she had no life other than my brother and I.

Fortunately for my brother the outcome was beneficial. He had had a particularly nasty teacher who decided to make an example of the only kid in the school who came from what was called then, a "broken home". There was only one parent in our little family, but our home was definitely not broken. My mother managed to get him transferred to another school for the balance of the school year (no mean feat either) and he thrived and went on to become a very decent human being and a damned fine folk muscian to boot.

I don't know the circumstances of the parent in the initial post, but blanket statements get up my nose sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:07 PM

As to the stickers...

It tells me that they are responsible and aware of the risks when taking baby on the road. It is a gentle reminder for people to slow down and be careful. I see alot of bumper stickers that are far more offensive. How about, "I'm spending my children's inheritance now" tacked on to a big motorhome, spewing out noxious emissions. It shows wanton disregard for future generations.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:42 PM

I didn't say that, pdc, it was Giok that said it--I disagree--

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:28 PM

I renounce all mine............but thetablet =s hae jusrt kicked in os it probaboly woudjp;jdn't hod up ihn cournt.

She's all yours, but you besk nmaeheke your ouwh picup arangebet,s]]]'''''oo

#TLS

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:01 PM

Haven't we heard this rant before? Kids nowadays have no respect...etc, blah, blah, blah. Every generation seems to think the younger generation is going to the dogs.

Most kids go through a rebellious stage. I know both of mine did. They have turned out to be responsible, caring adults. In fact, I'm surprised they turned out as good as they did. I always say they became the adults they are (quite conservative) in spite of me. We are great friends and I hope they will someday be responsible parents.

...but I still believe it takes a community to raise a child.

What have you done for the kids in your neighborhood lately? Do you even give them a chance to be kind and helpful?

d

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:13 PM

M. Ted said, "Kids nowadays just laugh at authority, and there is no effective sanctions teachers or parents can apply" a ridiculous statement..."

I'm not so sure, Ted. When I was raising my kids, I had one daughter who was completely out of control when she was 15, the only one who was ever a problem. She skipped school even when I drove her there and watched her go in the door -- she would go out another door that I couldn't see. When she went to bed at night and I was sure she was home, and would go to sleep myself, she would sneak out. In other words, she did all sorts of things that were dangerous: smoking, drinking, partying, sleeping around, etc.

At my wits' end, and after she refused to go for individual or family counselling, I went to the police to find out what I could do -- could I take any physical action. The answer was no, I couldn't. I wasn't allowed to lock her in her room, lock the house so she couldn't get back in at night (the "tough love" response), or physically compel her in any way to respect the family's way of life.

At the same time, if she committed any kind of crime at all, I was responsible, as she was a minor.

The story has a happy ending -- she outgrew this ugly phase and is a wonderful young woman. We are very close.

But what is a parent to do when their kid is right over the top and the law ties their hands? I didn't want to beat her -- I simply wanted to prevent her from doing what she was doing, physically if necessary. I had absolute responsibility and absolutely no authority.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:40 PM

As I remember, the original "Baby On Board" signs were not stickers, but hanging cards that could be displayed or removed easily.. as per this e "UK last week a Mother was jailed for failing to ensure that her child attended school, as part of her defence she said that she did not know that her child was playing truant" if it were a typical incident, it hardly would have made the news.

As for this statement"Kids nowadays just laugh at authority, and there is no effective sanctions teachers or parents can apply" a ridiculous statement--there are always a few difficult kids, but most kids do what they are expected to do most of the time--

People have been complaining about kids since forever--when I was growing up, it was commonly said that teenagers were turning into sex crazed dope fiends, and that depraved teenaged gangs had turned every school into a war zone of some sort. Nowadays, people seem to regard those times as some sort of halcyon, where every kid studied hard, abstained from vice of all sorts, and respected adults--

As far as I can see, there are a few new problems--they are under more pressure than ever from adults, and they get less excercise(and therefore are more prone to being overweight), and everyone seems to want to medicate them--

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:31 PM

"Now wouldn't THAT piss people off!"

Not all people. Just the jerks. So please, buy and proudly fly that banner.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST,dinnerlady
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:24 PM

I personally don't think those stickers make any difference. Maniac drivers will drive like maniacs whatever and likewise the careful ones. When we were the proud owners of our very first baby we had one of those stickers in the back.Thirteen years later our precious cargo has increased by 4...(including twins!)and we have no sticker...but perhaps we should now be thinking about haveing a huge banner!Now wouldn't THAT piss people off!

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:00 PM

Sorry boys, but accident and moving violation ticket statistics don't back up your claim that girls and women are the bad drivers. Quite the opposite, in fact. Statistics show that 18-25 year old males are the most dangerous drivers on the road. By a wide margin.

Yet, the thread is about how baby on board bumper stickers are a threat to society.

Like I said, it's easy to see why the Republicans keep winning.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:40 PM

Parents today are no more irresponsible than they have ever been.

The only time I exceed the speed limit is when I have the flashers and siren going, and then only for good reason (life at risk, speed of the essense, fire). Even the ambulance is governed at 159 km/hr. People who drive without due care deserve to have their licenses suspended. We no longer call them MVAs (motor vehicle accidents); now, we call them MVCs (motor vehicle collisions). Most accidents are preventable--slow down.

If the sign in the window makes you feel safer, and if you feel it may caution someone to drive more carefully, go for it.

I still think they're useless, but you don't. Have at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST,earthling
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:23 PM

Ok....forget the boy racers, racers of unknown gender do?

And Martin we can't help being adept at multi tasking :)

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:19 PM

It seems to me by far that right now the most aggressive drivers are young women.

Also, what's with this applying make while driving thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:14 PM

Boy racers?

When I drove on HWY 100 (in Maryland) 9 out of 10 times when it was a yuppie mobile speeding it was a female behind the wheel.

It's also become something of the rage in California for the femlaes to compete with the males. Good looking woman with brains and an extremely fast car. You've come a long way baby!

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST,earthling
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:12 PM

Yes you are quite right, we should take the sticker down, but hands up I don't, but will think about it now.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:08 PM

Should people take the sticker down when no kids are in the car, and would they then carry more weight?
John

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST,earthling
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:02 PM

I heartily second M.Ted and Mc Grath.

I have such a sticker for exactly the reasons above re accidents and also to gently remind boy racers that there are other people on the road.

But just to thread drift for a moment, I have also noticed that as I get older,some people without kids tend to get tetchier, and their patience towards children dwindles into non existency. Sure they cry and scream and vomit at the drop of a hat, but we all did that at some stage.

Maybe it is because children tend to put life into perspective for us? I worry about a million things a day, but thankfully don't have the time to dwell on bumper stickers.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Bagpuss
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:59 PM

I think of it this way. Now that my baby son is in the car with us, I make sure my husband drives even more carefully than he already does, because my son is the most precious thing to me. Now I know that some people sometimes don't drive as carefully as they should, and if a sign alerting them to the presence of a baby in my car makes them pay that tiny bit more attention and keeps my son a tiny bit safer, then I will carry the sign. Does that mean I am abdicating responsibility?

Anyway I was just reminded of a comedian (I for get who it was) who the press seems to think has twins, but doesnt. Its because he was being interviewed and asked inane questions. He was asked what three things he would save if his house was on fire. he replied "my guitar, my collection of vinyl, and one of the twins...."

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Sooz
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:54 PM

I'm with you Giok as I spend much of my time with children whose parents defend their right to have as many as possible and accept little responsibility for their upbringing. Mind you, I am often surprised what nice chaps some of our teenagers are knowing the homes they come from.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:54 PM

Ah Ted a touch paranoid I fear, I'm not getting at you, and I also am a parent. What I am saying is that our children are our responsibility, and nobody elses. The sticker on the window/bumper/fender will never stop idiot drivers, and therefore parents must drive defensively not ask others to do it for them. We could also have, Elderly Person on Board, or any other such homily, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. As was said before the roads are full of nutters so drive accordingly.
As for the parents who don't pay enough attention to what their kids are up to, I stand by my original post.
John

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:34 PM

Actually, the notices are supposed to let paramedics or emergency rescue people know that there are children in the vehicle, in case of an accident. You are also supposed to put out some sort of marker to let rescuers know which bedrooms have children in them.

As the parent of 3 children, I have heard no end of complaining about the "special attention" and treatment that children get, as well as the same sort of idiotic ranting that Giok posted above--I am sick of it--it is hard enough to raise children without having some jerk attack you, and your kids.

I don't put up with this crap anymore--Giok and Brucie, so best shut up and go post to a thread that you know something about--

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:18 PM

I've never understood why some people seem to get so steamed up over stickers like this. As I understand the thinking behind them, it's probably a hopeful effort to remind the kind of homicidal maniacs who drive around as if they were on some kind of race track that they are sharing the road with vulnerable human beings. You know - the sort who drive right on your tail, and think speed limits are for wimps.

Most cars seem to have a notice on the back window saying which garage they were bought from. Why doesn't that annoy the people who sound off about the baby notices? After all, who gives a monkeys where they bought their cars?

As for parents who fall down on the job, it's a hard job. Much better to concentrate our attention on doing it the best we can ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:07 PM

OK John, I'll go along with all the stuff you said about parental responsibility.
On the other hand, if you had been tailgated on the Autobahn as many times as I have been in Germany (while overtaking lines of lorríes) you would understand why I want to vapourise those bastards who drive close when my kids are in the car. A car sticker is a very mild statement compared to what I say to those assholes who race up and down streets which my small children have to cross.
To my knowledge car stickers are responsible for a fairly low number of casualties.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:29 PM

Whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:26 PM

Post above this is for guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:25 PM

..!..

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:24 PM

You didn't read the post properly, as usual.
John

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:22 PM

Actually, I was just thinking people couldn't get much pettier over something as insubstantial as that shit rant about bumper stickers being the moral equivalent of parental abdication of responsibility for their children.

No wonder Republicans keep getting elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:18 PM

Giok: Thanks for this thread. You have directed me to something that irritates the shit outta me: those signs. Gives me something for the Things you Hate thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:14 PM

When your kid drives a better car than you do, maybe it's time to wonder where he's gettin' the money.

I do not like those damned signs: Baby on Board. It's like the rest of the world needs a message, ya know? Lady/Guy: then drive your friggin' vehicle carefully.

Subject: BS: Abdication of parental responsibility
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:08 PM

I was behind a car in traffic today with a sticker on it rear window saying 'Twins on Board' instead of the usual 'Children on board' Why should it make a difference to Joe Public how many kids you have, and whether they are 'On board' or not? It is distinctly possible that there were no children in the car at that time anyway. Does this sign say, 'I'm fertile' or does it say, 'I can't be bothered to look out for my own kids, so can you do it for me'? To me it is further evidence of some parents inability to bring up thier kids without outside help. They present them at school unable to understand the word no, or able to do what they are told, or sit still for 5 mins at a time. In the UK last week a Mother was jailed for failing to ensure that her child attended school, as part of her defence she said that she did not know that her child was playing truant. How can a Mother be totally unaware of the fact that her child is missing school, when it would appear that this particular child had been dodging school for more than 50% of the time. I know that my Mother, who worked full time when I was a kid, would have been asking me how school was, and what homework I had, and if not why not? Kids nowadays just laugh at authority, and there is no effective sanctions teachers or parents can apply.
I know this doesn't apply to all kids, but it does apply to too many these days.
John