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BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST,appalled mudcatter Date: 10 May 04 - 09:14 PM Mr. Happy posted a link to a single image in a site that has numerous images. Some are probably what Rummy and Dubya viewed behind closed doors. http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/IraqPOW/ is the index to the image thumbnails. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Cluin Date: 11 May 04 - 12:07 AM Stupid morons doing stupid things to Iraqi prisoners while other stupid morons stand around snapping pictures of it. You better hope involvement doesn't go too high up. Doesn't say much for the intelligence of the Intelligence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST,Dwight Date: 11 May 04 - 01:05 AM what is amazing to me is that most americans were more interested in the final episode of "Friends" than the prisoner abuse. Where is the outrage. Where is the outrage over 800 soldiers dead in an illegal war. We had a lot more pressing matters like nukes being sold from pakistan to N. korea. We sure needed to stabalize the Afgan situation before going to Iraqi, which had nothing to do with 9/11 and was being contained. We could have worried about Saddam after we solved some of the other problems. I wish this president cared as much about the lives of our soldiers and Iraqi civilians as he does about the lives of stem cells and fetuses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 11 May 04 - 01:18 AM I am bemused that the website has a Korean Flag. Bush made a great fuss about 'Axis of Evil'. The subtle thing is that on the second page, there is a picture from 1950 showing US Military parading (North) Korean nurses stripped to their underwear. Only a few years before Aussie soldiers (and nurses) were similarly (and worse) mistreated by the Japanese, and the US were the 'Saviours of the World' against such horrors. This web page is a political slap in the face for the US over the way it is behaving towards Korea, as well as the rest of the world. Robin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 May 04 - 01:35 AM That's a very sweeping and general indictment, guest Dwight. Having never watched the program Friends, I can't speak to it's popularity. In my circle of friends and associates the primary topic for a couple of weeks now has been the abomination of these acts as they have been revealed. And how to get rid of Dubya so someone else can begin to try to make some repairs. There have certainly been low-points in America's worldwide reputation within the lifetime of many of us. Korea and Vietnam, for example. About the only other time in the last 100 years when the U.S. reputation was in such shreds in the world community as it is now was after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We killed a lot more there, but in this wired global village, it takes fewer deaths to acquire the same reputation. I can see George doing the comparison now: Let's see: Hiroshima and Nagasaki, about 150,000 dead within the year after the war, but only about 10,000 Iraqi's killed so far. What a relief! Only 10,000 dead! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 03:04 AM "The purest treasure mortal times afford is spotless reputation.... Mine honour is my life, both grow in one; Take honour from me, and my life is done." -- Shakespeare |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 10:20 AM Yesterday I requested that the above link posted by Mr. Happy be removed. Considering that this photo hasn't been posted by a single legitimate news source in the US, Europe, Asia, Australia or anywhere else I did a quick internet search of, I think it is correct to assume this is a doctored photograph until we have evidence to the contrary. In that light, I think the link, which is pornographic in nature (and the soldier's penis certainly looks "enhanced" shall we say?), should be removed from this website. Typically, Joe Offer doesn't agree. This isn't a sound judgment call, as even Mr. Happy's concurs with my request that it be removed: "Request for link in thread to be removed" Another demonstration of why some of us feel Joe Offer's judgment is questionable at times. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 May 04 - 11:03 AM Guest, you reflect the sentiments of the American male-controlled media: the penis is off-limits for mainstream publication, though just about anything on a woman may appear, as long as a movie rating is in place. [this is called a double-standard] Your sensitivity doesn't do you any credit, and dulls your ability to look at those images and see what is clearly there. It isn't pornographic in the sense that it is over-the-top sex, it is obscene in the sense that it is rape. I hope that the men whose pricks are in view torturing those women have to face charges, and that the women they abused are still alive and are able to confront their torturers. This is such a depressing time. Thanks to George W. Bush and this obscene "war" of his I sat at breakfast with my children this morning discussing torture and rape, and how rape is so different from healthy sex. The photos are out there, and my kids at 12 and 15 need help to interpret that "news." They're healthy normal kids and images that look like "sex" are going to catch their attention. The networks play and play and play the images, and it's impossible to watch the news and void the images. And we are told a new batch is coming. The link above goes to some of those images--various angles of two separate gang rapes of two distinct Iraqi women by a group of American soldiers, may be the same men in both occasions--and those are liable to end up on tv next. I told the kids that some may not, because American men consider images of the penis off limits, so any photos with men's penises, even when they're torturing a woman, will not be shown. Anything else will appear. The women will appear with agonized expressions, as long as American (and in this instance, white) hands and penises aren't in the picture. I didn't think it was possible to be any more disgusted with George Bush than I have been since he started his defacto personal war against the Moslem world. But he's reached a new low. He turned loose apparently untrained and unsupervised soldiers on that country who are not only brutish, they're so stupid that they take souvenir photos of themselves brutalizing Iraqis. The radio is on. The senator just asked for Taguba his assessment of the situation. The soldiers had "no training whatsover, and a lack of supervision" he answered. Duh. Two other Pentagon officials are there and interrupt his testimony with their approved views of the war. Another senator has come on and started his statement by complaining about these "human rights do-gooders." He suggests that because Saddam's torture was so much worse that this is nothing in comparison. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 11:16 AM Stilly River Sage, I believe you have missed the point. The request to have the link removed has nothing to do with anyone's obsession with or aversion to men's penises or a double standard about male/female pornography. Mr. Happy has admitted (and he is the person who originally posted the link to this particular photograph) that this photograph is likely a fake. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Nerd Date: 11 May 04 - 11:20 AM I have to point out what sad, stupid people these soldiers are who committed these acts of torture. Even the KKK had enough sense that the Klansmen wore the hoods, not the victims. I won't pretend to know what the circumstances were (were they ordered to do it, or not, were theremany of them, or few, etc) but it seems to me that taking a picture of yourself committing a crime is stupid--and it should have been obvious to them that, whatever the orders, these were criminal acts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Lepus Rex Date: 11 May 04 - 11:27 AM Heh, you're some easily bamboozled motherfuckers. SRS, the rape photos are fake, from a military rape-fantasy porn site, which really is kind of tacky to link to. They've been around forever, and they're not even that convincing. Check out the cheesy uniforms, and the fact that neither woman looks Iraqi, for starters. Then, search for "rape photos" on Google News, and read about it for yourself. ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 12:34 PM Right you are Lepus. Mr. Happy now knows he posted a link to a site that is posting doctored porn photographs from other links on the web. Anytime I see a "korean" website in English with these kinds of photos, I automatically balk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 01:29 PM Another bad, arbitrary and capricious decision IMO, Joe. Of course we are all adults. No one requested the link be removed because it offended our sensibilities. We requested it be removed, because it's violent porn being passed off as newsworthy photographs associated with the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. But it is still violent porn. I'm guessing the reason why you are refusing to remove the link is, as usual, you want to set this up as a control issue between yourself and this anonymous guest. If a member had said I find this disturbing pornographic link very disturbing, it would have been gone in an instant. Typical, and pathetic too. But it's your site. If you want this shit polluting Mudcat to prove you are a powerful man like the one in the photo Joe Offer, that's entirely up to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Joe Offer Date: 11 May 04 - 01:37 PM This doesn't just apply to the one link posted by Mr. Happy. There are a number of links in this thread that lead to photos, and some of the photos appear to have been altered. I'm not able to judge which photos are accurate, and which are not. View at your own risk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: mg Date: 11 May 04 - 02:13 PM Bob, as the above thread pointed out, these are pictures that (a)offend (way too weak a word I know) the dignity of a very proud people, with very strong modesty etc. They will be identified by their families, foes etc. regardless of pixels or whatever. These pictures will be used for filthy purposes by filthy people. If your son or daughter was stripped naked, post-rape or whatever, would you want his/her picture all over the world in a sexual pose? mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 02:31 PM You are wrong again, Joe. The only links in this thread are to sites that show the photographs that appeared at the Washington Post and on 60 Minutes II, with the exception of the two links to the same "Korean" website by Mr. Happy and Guest Appalled Mudcatter. I've checked each and every link in this thread. The original link to the photographs that was posted by me in the opening post of this thread, only went to this site because the photographs hadn't been made available at any of the news websites at the time I started the thread. I had been searching the internet for some time when I finally found the first link. I would be fine with you removing that link as well, as all those photographs have been made widely available online, in print, and on TV. The Korean website has some of the legitimate photographs that have appeared on conventional websites, mixed in with pornographic photographs. The original site I posted to didn't do such an unethical thing. The original site I posted to simply put them up as a public service, before the photographs were widely disseminated through news organizations. If you had bothered to check any of this out, which isn't the least bit difficult if you've been following the story, you wouldn't be claiming what you are claiming. The accused soldiers haven't even claimed the photographs being disseminated by legitimate news organizations are doctored, so why Joe, are you claiming they are? Answer: as a justification not to remove the link, because you want this to be a control and power issue. Which is bogus, but as I said, you've demonstrated this inability to remove your ego from the equation in these sorts of instances before, when you turn the dumbest ass things into needless power struggles with people who post here.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: George Papavgeris Date: 11 May 04 - 03:17 PM Fight! Fight! Fight! Gather round folks! (smiling) I doon't know Joe from Adam, but I don't like to see anybody attacked in public with accusations of being power-mad etc. My personal view is that I'd prefer Joe not to censor and trust me to be a big boy and have a vague idea of how to filter information available to me. As to the photo: I was disgusted when I saw it, but incredulous too. I just find it hard to imagine that anyone could be so stupid as to allow themselves to be photographed in such circumstances - so I assumed that the circumstances (and probably the pictures) had been doctored. I then hung around to see what other opinions/views/info would come in, and lo! - it turns out they were fakes after all. I am still disgusted at the photo, I think that the people actually involved in it are depraved, and the person who doctored it for misinformation evil. But I'm a big boy. I don't go back to it (as it upsets me) and in the light of subsequent info I no longer believe its intended message. One more think on censorship: It takes more courage and trust NOT to censor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: George Papavgeris Date: 11 May 04 - 03:17 PM ...thing... (someone moved the "g" key) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 May 04 - 03:52 PM Rumsfeld and Taguba and others have warned that there is "worse to come." From one web site, following L.Rex's suggested search, says:
Yeah, sure, they're "actresses" (wink, wink). From another site, dated May 6, as this story was breaking:
The identities of the woman being raped and the western-looking males in military outfit have yet to be verified. The photos surfaced only few days after western newspapers published some photos that revealed the inhumane and torturous practices of the U.S. soldiers against Iraqi prisoners. Western newspapers published other photos that show the immoral crimes perpetrated against Iraqi detainees, including urinating on them and taking off all their clothes. Such photos have led to a wave of fury spreading all over the world. From Pitt's essay The War is Lost that Ebbie directed us to in another thread:
The worst, amazingly, is yet to come. A new battery of photographs and videotapes, as yet unreleased, awaits over the horizon of our abused understanding. These photos and videos, also from the Abu Ghraib prison, are reported to show U.S. soldiers gang raping an Iraqi woman, U.S. soldiers beating an Iraqi man nearly to death, U.S. troops posing, smirks affixed, with decomposing Iraqi bodies, and Iraqi troops under U.S. command raping young boys. Actually, whether or not a few of these photos are fake isn't the point. There are going to be people who would try to push it all aside, suggesting that all of it is fake, based on a few with muddy antecedents. And like that senator this morning who suggested that what Saddam did was so much worse that this is no big deal. It's obscene that American soldiers and their followers have had to go to Iraq at all. It's obscene to conduct maneuvers like this in Iraq and call it justifiable. It sounds like a difficult place under the best of conditions and hellish under the worst. Over 700 military have died, and today on Fresh Air a fellow from one of the Washington D.C. think tanks said probably another 50 private for-hire soldiers have died and another 300 wounded. More than 10,000 Iraqis have died so far. Former U.S. soldier and prisoner of war in Iraq Shoshana Johnson was on Good Morning America this morning and said she was treated well and with respect during her 22 days of inprisonment last year. Only a few hours after that broadcast ABC news posted this:
Clearly any Americans captured now are at an exponentially-worse risk than they were before. What I said about how Americans view body parts stands. Even if "legitmate" photos of violence against women appear, as long as there are any male members present, it won't turn up on American televison. So there are always going to be somewhat clandestine places to the photos. And while America is busy trying to hide its privates, a few American soldiers have been busy, as Mary suggests, humiliating members of a very modest society. Another double standard. The Thomas Hobbes quote from Leviathan comes to mind here, applicable to any and all in Iraq: ". . .which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 04:12 PM El Greko, if censorship never happened here at Mudcat I would be in complete agreement with your position on censorship. That just isn't the case here though, as people's posts get censored pretty regularly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 04:26 PM An additional obscenity is the testimony of Taguba, that only the enlisted men and women reservists (and on up the chain of command to their female BG who is refusing to be scapegoated and has been talking to the press) were involved. Right. That sworn testimony directly contradicts the International Red Cross report. It also directly contradicts what has already leaked out to the press from "anonymous Pentagon sources" about the same practices being used, by Pentagon order, in Guantanamo and Afghanistan. So who is lying? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Lepus Rex Date: 11 May 04 - 04:37 PM Yeah, SRS, and even though the "rape" photos are fake, they've already been distributed throughout the middle east, and peasants with no knowledge of such things as rape-fantasy porn or Photoshop have them pinned to their hut walls, so the damage is done. Just to be a glass-full kind of guy: The fake photos might blunt the impact/violent backlash when the real rape photos are released? Nahhh... ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Jim McCallan Date: 11 May 04 - 04:40 PM I think we are in the era, now, where we cannot tell with 100% certainty that any 'image' we see is genuine.... This wave of photgraph releases I'm sure, will give the 'morphers' more material to work with, and I think we have to accept that. The Pentagon, however has admitted that there is 'worse to come', (they are not putting too much emphasis on alleged 'doctored' images), so in a way whereas any photograph or, for that matter, video we see from now on, can have it's authenticity questioned, we have to keep in mind that the Pentagon has confirmed photographs like these ones, exist. In which case, at the very least, the photographs from the site above can be viewed as 'representations' of the images Rumsfeld has already alluded to; though in fairness, one of the women in one of the 'rape' scenes does look decidedly 'oriental'. The taking of the photographs in the first place (the real ones, I mean), or the making of 'home-made' porn, and snuff movies, has set in motion a chain of events where everything from security within the prison (in that, for one, images could be 'smuggled out') to issues regarding who condoned or, perhaps, ordered the human rights abuses that the photographs and video have been admitted as having represented, is being (or should be in the process of being) scrutinised in a lot more detail. And that, I believe is the 'good' that can come out of this. I know that I have no intention of 'flicking' through every 'photograph' that comes out of Iraq from now on; I'm not voyeuristic, and in any case, the damage has already been done by the first revelations. Everything that gets circulated now, will have it's authenticity questioned. The internet is out there, ladies and gentlemen. It's authenticity is always brought into question. Just as we filter out what we see and hear in the mass media, on a daily basis, I'm sure most of us have a capacity for healthy scepticism, when it comes to 'information' relayed to us via the internet. Thankfully no-one yet has taken it upon themselves to cut certain sections of my morning newspaper out, before I get a chance to disregard the information that might have been there, myself, and if we are all 'people of the World' here, I think we all can be given the benefit of the doubt that we can seperate the 'genuine' from the 'suspect', to a certain degree. Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST Date: 11 May 04 - 08:35 PM First, photographs and images being manipulated, changed, etc for effect is as old as the technology. It is a technology open to extreme manipulation because images have such power over our emotions. So sure Jim, it would be great if everyone could or would figure out for themselves which of the photographs is fake, and which aren't. Except they don't, which is how and why this shit gets circulated to begin with--there are people in this thread who immediately reacted to the fake photograph as if it were real, including Mr. Happy who first posted the link. It isn't just Iraqis who have difficulty distinguishing the real from the fake. I'm not voyeuristic either. But I'm also realistic enough to know that many people want to see MORE of these photos, not less, because there is a very real titillation factor involved in their dissemination. Disturbing images of graphic violence is every bit as pornographic and obscene as disturbing images of graphic sex is. When you combine the two, there is a real danger of losing sight of what it is we initially needed to view the photographs for, which was to verify "with our own eyes" what had transpired, because of the power of the warrior hero myth over the majority of our civil society right now. We also know that in a democratic society, we have to see the photographs, so we can begin to turn the tide, and prevent the atrocity level from growing and growing exponentially on the ground in Iraq. Does keeping a link in Mudcat to an obviously shady website which blurs the lines so obviously help us do that? Remember, no one is preventing anyone from seeing the image linked to that is being objected to here. Anyone who wants to can, as Lepus Rex rightly pointed out, find those images anytime, anywhere on the internet. So the judgment call is, does Mudcat want to provide links to that sort of shit? Apparently, the answer is yes. It serves no useful purpose to the discussion, because it is misinformation at it's worst. And like I said, it wouldn't even be an issue if the most innocuous things get censored at Mudcat all the time. It does beg the question, why leave this link in? My belief, and no one will change my mind about it, is that there was a conscious decision to leave a link to a disturbing pornographic image in the thread, because people are so powerfully attracted to the titillation factor some will get from viewing it. Joe's decision to leave it in, even after the person who innocently posted it came back and said they were wrong about it, says this is about Joe's power over that pornographic image, and not about "what's best and for the good of all." This isn't anything newsworthy about the image, Jim. It is old military porn, being recycled to extend it's internet shelf life. By leaving the link here, Joe is choosing to help that happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 May 04 - 08:42 PM An NPR reported described the video of the gruesome death of that American businessman. Was anyone listening to the story? He's from Westchester, PA. Same place that Mudcat originates. Small world, eh? Now I've had more than enough news for the day. I'm turning off the computer, turning off the radio, and am going to listen to some music or maybe watch a movie with the kids. If I don't, I'll end up curled in a depressed huddle. I thought this morning's talk with the kids was on a horrible subject. . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Jim McCallan Date: 11 May 04 - 09:18 PM "My belief..., is that there was a conscious decision to leave a link to a disturbing pornographic image in the thread, because people are so powerfully attracted to the titillation factor some will get from viewing it" I may be wrong, but I'm trying to think who (if any) here, on Mudcat, would be 'titillated' by such images? The theory is as unproveable as the existence of WMDs, IMO. I don't mind the link being there (I don't mind it not being there, either), but I have no reason (or desire) to make it an issue. Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 May 04 - 01:06 AM New York Times photo of Nick Berg's father getting the news of his son's death. Comforted by his other son. I think the grief in this is as real as the photograph. No PhotoShop needed. Too bad George Bush doesn't read newspapers, or he might choke on his breakfast cereal if he happened to glance toward the Times photo tomorrow at breakfast. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: DougR Date: 12 May 04 - 01:23 AM I have it on pretty good authority that GWB does not eat cereal for breakfast, SRS. He eats a healthy breakfast of biscuits, cream gravy, scrambled eggs and country ham. Blaming GWB for what happened is typical of you of course. There were tornados in Colorado last night. I suppose he caused them too, right? Geeze. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 12 May 04 - 01:31 AM Don't be a dam fool Doug. clint |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 May 04 - 01:51 AM DougR, get a grip on reality. Bush (and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rove and Rice, etc.) in his rush to let his rich friends get richer has trumped up charges and attempted to conquer a nation with huge oil reserves. This has NOTHING to do with the events of September 11, 2001 and NOTHING to do with "weapons of mass destruction." Can you try to understand that? You need to understand that he had no business invading Afghanistan OR Iraq and that the two have nothing to do with each other. Clinton may not have finished off Saddam after Bush Sr. pulled out, but he kept him contained. The rest of it wasn't our business--if fixing the world is our business, then we should be doing something about the Sudan right now, but not a peep there from Dubya. (Why go there? There's no oil.) Do you understand that Bush has made himself and this country the most hated nation in the world right now, and that many of us hate being put in this position, being associated with this fool? In his rush to send in troops he sent over numbers of people without training and without supervision who have in essence waved a match into the gas fumes over Iraq. They have severely complicated the lives of the rest of the troops who are there. I don't know about you, but my association with folks in Iraq is through the Army Corps of Engineers. A lot of them from this Southwest district are over in Iraq now--my ex husband was the one who processed many of their papers. That whole office is holding it's collective breath in the face of this juggernaut that Bush has unleashed. What's your story? I am horribly offended by his actions in the name of Americans like myself, and I find him to be small and petty and stupid. I'm offended that the supreme court appointed him to office, and I don't care if Bill Clinton screwed a hundred interns, the difference between Clinton's ability to THINK and the doofus that Bush is is embarrassingly obvious. Bush and his group need to be put on trial for war crimes. The tornados, on the other hand, were probably generated by a blowhard like you. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST,Teribus Date: 12 May 04 - 04:09 AM I see that they are still peddling those photographs of the "Iraqi" being "abused" by the QLR, even although it is becoming increasingly more apparent that those "shots" were faked, staged in a British Army TA Hall back in the UK. Soldiers 'A' and 'B' required photgraphs of "abuse" in order to pocket the £10,000 the "Daily Mirror" offered them for their "story". Does nothing but reinforce my extremely low opinion of the standard and calibre of British journalists: Editor to Journalist - "The Yanks are being blasted for abusing prisoners. Toddle up to Lancs, poke around and bring me back a story about our lads doing the same." Journalist to Editor - "Fair enough, what's the budget, and what are the expenses." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: Wolfgang Date: 12 May 04 - 09:34 AM Soldiers 'A' and 'B' required photgraphs of "abuse" in order to pocket the £10,000 the "Daily Mirror" offered them for their "story". Does nothing but reinforce my extremely low opinion of the standard and calibre of British journalists (Teribus) I'm curious, Teribus, what is the effect upon your opinion of the standard and calibre of British soldiers? Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Photos here of Iraqi prisoner abuse From: GUEST,Teribus Date: 12 May 04 - 11:15 AM "I'm curious, Teribus, what is the effect upon your opinion of the standard and calibre of British soldiers?" Not a simple question to answer. Of soldiers 'A' & 'B' mentioned in my post, Wellington's description seems quite applicable with regard to standard and calibre. These two individuals seem to have deliberately staged photographs, with the intent of making some cash on the side, knowing full well the damage that publication of those photographs would cause. No wonder they wish to remain anonymous, I certainly wouldn't want to be in their boots when they returned to their unit. For the sake of a few quid they have greatly endangered the lives of all their mates and all those serving in Iraq - That, particularly the first bit, you just do not do. As I said previously, it makes no difference at all now, if it is shouted from the roof-tops by the individuals concerned that these photographs are fakes - not a single person in the Arab world would believe them. I'd stick the pair of them back out in Iraq and assign them to foot patrol in Basra, then let the world and his dog know that these were the guys in the photographs - a lie? Yes, but what the hell, they seem to have no scruples about disseminating false information. Now should they then be captured/abducted or whatever, they could then compare notes on how they are treated and then possibly wonder why. In general I have a fairly high opinion of the standard and calibre of the members of Britains armed forces, situation by situation, and, unit for unit, it might vary. |
