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Subject: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,Henry Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:00 PM There's a programme on BBC Radio 4 tomorrow, Tuesday, about Vaughan Williams collecting songs in Suffolk. It's from 1.30 to 2.00pm. It's called Blyth Valley Voices, and will be broadcast on the internet too. It should also be available on demand for the following seven days, and possibly more. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:59 PM Vaughan Williams was certainly an extraordinary person, but I'm wondering howhe is (and was) regarded as a folk song collector. I think Roy Palmer said that Vaughan Williams emphasized the tunes of folk songs, and sometimes transcribed only a verse of two of the lyrics. Since many collectors didn't bother with melodies at all, maybe Vaughan Williams served as a good balance. I also got the impression that perhaps Vaughan Williams only dabbled in folk song collecting, and that his work in that area wasn't significant. I have Palmer's 1983 book, Bushes and Briars: Folk Songs Collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams. It's an inexpensive 1999 reprint from Llanerch publishers, and I really like it. Oh - in my senior year of high school, my English professor said the that the first name of Vaughan Williams is pronounced "Rafe." Is that correct? This same professor also contended that Michelangelo's David is not circumcised - could that be so? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 16 Aug 04 - 04:26 PM The programme was presumably inspired by the recent book Blyth Voices, published by the East Anglian Traditional Music Trust. The book concentrates on material collected in the Southwold area of Sussex in 1910. Partly because Vaughan Williams (yes, he pronounced his first name "rafe") is chiefly known as a composer, people tend to pay less attention than they perhaps ought to his collecting. Although this occupied a relatively short space of time (about 10 years) he noted some 800 pieces, which is not inconsiderable. Much of the time he only got the tunes. There were several reasons for that, which I haven't time to go into at the moment; from our point of view it was a regrettable omission, but he was a composer by trade, and had his own agenda. Although he did little field work after 1913, he devoted a lot of time and effort to the folk music revival during the rest of his life. I don't think we should underestimate his importance in the scheme of things. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,Jon Date: 16 Aug 04 - 05:11 PM Malcolm of course meant to say Suffolk, not Sussex above. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Liz the Squeak Date: 16 Aug 04 - 05:46 PM He composed the music for William Barnes' song 'Linden Lea' and his widow got very upset when people referred to him as Ralf and not Rafe. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 16 Aug 04 - 06:34 PM Thanks, Jon. My apologies to East Anglia! I particularly remember the pronounciation of RVW's name because I had an uncle called Ralph who, like most people, pronounced it "ralf". I recall my headmaster (who spoke perfect English but was actually Francophone Swiss) announcing that this was obviously wrong because the famous composer preferred "rafe". That rankled rather (I felt that poor old uncle Ralph had been slighted) but Berthoud was a kind man at heart, though inclined to snobbery in some respects, and taught me some good French songs. That was pretty irrelevant, wasn't it. There are several useful biographies of Vaughan Williams, the most recent being Simon Heffer's Vaughan Williams (London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 2000). I haven't had time to read it yet, unfortunately. Michael Kennedy's The Works of Ralph Vaughan Williams (Oxford, OUP, 1964) I have read, however, and it contains useful commentary on RVW's involvement with folk song and what he did with it; plus a list of most of the songs he collected, with dates and sources. I found that very helpful when working on Penguin, and it saved me a lot of time when I had subsequently to go through RVW's notebooks on microfilm. On the tendency of early 20th century folk song collectors toward a certain bias in favour of modal tunes, see Julian Onderdonk, 'Vaughan Williams and the Modes' in Folk Music Journal vol 7 no 5, 1999. Joe has already mentioned Roy Palmer's book, the revised edition of which can be had from Llanerch Press; it's excellent and well worth getting hold of. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,cardboard cutout Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:12 AM the programme itself was brilliant, well worth listening to, and only very incidentally about Vaughan Williams |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Leadfingers Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:17 AM Point of interest - there were several reference in the programme to the amount of singing in the various pubs in Southwold - Just wondering how these songs would be remembered if PEL had existed a hundred years ago ! |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: The Borchester Echo Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:28 AM Yes. the 'star' was undoubtedly the Southwold town crier John Barber who is also Grandad to Mawkin's melodeon player! Following close on was the school class composing new verses to The Herring's Head in Chris Coe's voice workshop and then being encouraged to dance by Katy Howson. Then we were taken down to a pub on Southwold harbour where among much merrymaking was a 12-year-old heard stepdancing as part of 'normal' everyday activity. Though Vaughan Williams' work was important in the sense that it probably preserved some of what would otherwise have been lost, this programme was centred on the tradition as it lives, grows and changes. Truly inspirational. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Liz the Squeak Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:24 PM But not entirely grabbing you and making you want to go to Southwold (although there is an excellent beer named after it).... I found it interesting but only because I was interested in the subject. Had I been a chance listener who'd never heard of Southwold, I would have tuned out fairly rapidly. Sorry, but there we go, that's my opinion. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Ralphie Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:13 AM Liz Fair point, well made. But, to their credit in the last 6 months or so, the Beeb has upped it's recognition of "alternative" musics a 100% Radio 2, with its coverage of Cambridge, a bit of Sidmouth, and the regular M Harding show. Even Stuart Maconie did Ms Rusby on the critical list...Fairport on Johnnie Walker two weeks ago (Hairy gig that one!), Eliza's Anglicana..even Wogan isn't immune! Radio 3 with the eclectic Late Junction.(including most of the Yorks carols concert by CBS and friends)...Various Folkies on Kershaw...Martin Simpson, etc. not to mention lots of Womad. Ms Tabor seems to be a regular on Womans Hour on Radio 4 now!! As for TV...BBC4, well what a list...Docs about Carthy, Drake, Thompson, Stanshall, concerts from Tabor & Rusby, Lots of Womad, lots of Cambridge, a retro of Sidmouth coming soon, the 2nd Transatlantic sessions...and lots more to come. (and I didn't even mention all the Blues and Country progs that are very much related) So, appreciating your point that the Blyth prog yesterday might not have brought in your average listener, It's just astonishing to me that it's there at all!! 2 years ago, it wouldn't have happened. (I asked a colleague at work, a non folkie to listen, and he really enjoyed it. He hadn't realised that trad songs had such fantastic tales to tell....I fear for his bank account!) As for RVW, It's a little known fact that his friends called him Ralphie! Kindest regards R |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Dave Bryant Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:20 AM Of course, the Sole Bay area of Southwold has made another important contribution to the folk scene. Adnam's ale has helped many sessions that I've been involved in - especially at Walton Folk Festival. Don Shepherd (is he still around ?) even wrote a song about it. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: FIDDLE-4 Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:36 AM YES, Vaughan Williams was a great collector of english folk song-worth his salt. jim mcauley fiddle-4 |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: pavane Date: 18 Aug 04 - 06:50 AM Maybe BBC has heard that folk is currently enjoying renewed interest? Can't knock it. Stuart Maconie has obviously been acquainted with folk music to some extent in the past, from the odd stray comments I have heard him make over the last couple of years. (But it's not what pays the bills. That's why Mrs Pavane sings Pop in the clubs, not folk!) |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,Dave of Mawkin Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:31 PM LTS, Southwold, is magical. The people are wonderfully interesting, nice, 'real' characters and are almost constantly happy. Southwold itself is absolutely gorgeous! beautiful beaches,harbours,pubs and shops.And not a fucking McDonalds in sight, in fact the only bit of capitalism you can find is the ASDA or something in the town, most are locally run businesses offering quality products. To cut the crap short, its a brilliant town, and a place that will always be in my heart thanks to Alex Goldsmith, John Barber, Gus Kitson, Lenny Whiting and Co. For anyone wanting to take their folkie kids to as a quiet place to chill out and enjoy the music then go, but be warned, if loads of you go it will be ruined, dont turn up wanting a nice welcoming pub with efficient staff, in fact dont turn up wanting anything, just enjoy their way of life their way and keep it their way. Sorry for ranting, but next to South Zeal, Southwold is one of my favourite places. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST Date: 23 Aug 04 - 05:55 PM A memory- an anecdote... George and I went with Maud Karpeles to the home of Ralph Vaughn Williams, in 1952. He asked me to sing for him, and I sang some verses of a ballad (it might have been,"John Riley-" I'm guessing) but as he was hard of hearing, I had to sing into his ear trumpet! It would have made a wonderful photograph, only, George was afraid to take it, as he had not asked permission. Later, as we were leaving, he took our photo together, with Ursula and Maud, on the balcony (see www.jeanritchie.com Click on Photo Gallery). It is one of my treaures. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,Anne_Royston Date: 24 Aug 04 - 04:44 AM Dave of Mawkin said: 'Southwold, is magical. Sorry for ranting, but next to South Zeal, Southwold is one of my favourite places' I could not agree more - except that Southwold IS my favourite place. We have to have a week there every year end of March. The walks, the pubs, the beer, oh I want to be there now! Except we keep away in the summer as it HEAVES with day trippers. Anne |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: Ron Davies Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:02 AM I'll have to say I was surprised to find any criticism of Ralph Vaughn Williams on Mudcat (earlier in the thread). I remember being completely captivated by his English Folk Song Suite when I played it in high school orchestra at 16. Admittedly I was already fascinated by English, Welsh, and Scottish history at that point, being riveted by Thomas B. Costain's multi-volume history of the Plantagenets, among other reading. (Fascination with Irish history came later) --(yes I am aware there was mistreatment by the English of the Irish, Welsh, and Scots). At any rate, I considered the Folk Song Suite so evocative of a lost pastoral England ( swept away by World War I) in addition to my delight in the tunes themselves, that Vaughn Williams became immediately my favorite English composer. He is still, along with Tallis and Byrd. I consider his Fantasia on Greensleeves one of the most hauntingly beautiful, and again evocative pieces ever written. The Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis (Spem in Alium) (of course not folk) is perhaps even more ethereally wonderful, and I've recently had the magnificent opportunity to sing the original piece (written in 40 parts!) on which that Fantasy was based. Only quite recently have I had the opportunity to sing some of the songs from the Folk Song Suite (e.g. Blow Away the Morning Dew and 17 Come Sunday) in my choral group. I also play the Vaughn Williams setting of On Linden Lea on the piano, though I'm still looking for somebody who will sing the original dialect version. Obviously I'm not an unbiased observer in this. But I feel very strongly that Vaughn Williams, in addition to being one of the best composers who ever lived, is also a great popularizer of English folk song. I'm sure I'm not alone in my reaction to his folk song arrangements. The important thing here as I see it is that popularization is not necessarily a bad thing--it need not be Disneyfication --watering down to pabulum--for instance; in fact it can be a happy marriage of classical and folk. I also consider Vaughn Williams head and shoulders above all other popularizers of English folk song, e.g. Percy Grainger. Vaughn Williams has performed a great service to English folk music by his arrangements of English folk song, due to his genius expressed while doing them. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC From: FreddyHeadey Date: 26 Sep 22 - 06:29 AM Book Of The Week September 2022 - BBC radio 4 The Captain's Apprentice by Caroline Davison Following in the footsteps of Ralph Vaughan Williams, Caroline Davison explores the influence of folk song and the Fens on the composer, in the 150th anniversary of his birth. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001bksj/episodes/guide & more about the book (article by Rowan Mantell) https://www.edp24.co.uk/lifestyle/heritage/kings-lynn-folk-songs-inspire-vaughan-williams-9231202 independent bookshops link https://uk.bookshop.org/books/the-captain-s-apprentice-ralph-vaughan-williams-and-the-story-of-a-folk-song/9781784744540 |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,The Sandman Date: 26 Sep 22 - 08:24 AM Thankyou |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,henryp Date: 26 Sep 22 - 11:33 AM Derby Cathedral and Derby Folk Festival From Pub to Pulpit Ralph Vaughan Williams 150th Anniversary Concert 6pm Fri 30 Sep, Derby Cathedral View map Tickets: £15 - £5. Most tickets cost more when booked via telephone or in person at box office. From Pub to Pulpit is a celebration of Ralph Vaughan Williams’ 150th anniversary, and includes music from Broomdasher, Coracle, and the Cathedral’s own choristers. An acapella folk group, a classically trained instrumental trio, twenty cathedral organists and choirs, community choirs, and concert audiences will turn folk songs into hymns in a flagship nationwide tour. From Pub to Pulpit is an imaginative and rousing concert tour that brings to life the musical journey of folk sings Vaughan Williams collected before “borrowing” the tunes for hymn arrangements in The English Hymnal he edited in 1906. This event is also the only project that crosses the boundaries of Vaughan Williams's work, bringing several genres together in a popular and accessible way, so is definitely not one to be missed! Vaughan Williams was a well-known collector of folk songs and he borrowed folk song tunes he collected from labourers around the country for the tunes of some of the best hymns in the 1906 English Hymnal he edited. In the final part of the concert, Broomdasher and Coracle take the audience on a musical journey, starting with the folk song, going through dance variations and climaxing with everyone raising the roof with full-blooded renditions of the hymns. They include “To Be a Pilgrim”, “Tis Winter Now the fallen Snow” and “I Heard the Voice of Jesus Say” which will be musically transformed from the folk songs “Our Captain Calls”, “Brisk Young Farmer” and “The Murder of Maria Marten. The other sections of the concerts feature individual sections by Derby Cathedral Choir, directed by Alexander Binns; Broomdasher and Coracle. |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,henryp Date: 26 Sep 22 - 02:01 PM From Pub To Pulpit Tour 2022 Derby Cathedral ( From Pub To Pulpit ) 18-19 Iron Gate, Derby, DE1 3GP Date: Friday 30 Sep 2022 Start / Doors: 00:00 Tickets: £12 St Nicholas Cathedral, Newcastle ( From Pub To Pulpit ) Date: Saturday 01 Oct 2022 Start / Doors: 00:00 Tickets: £10, £12 Exeter Cathedral ( From Pub To Pulpit ) Date: Wednesday 05 Oct 2022 Start / Doors: 20:00 Tickets: £10, 16 and Under (Free with Adult) : Workshop £15, 16 and Under (Free with Adult) Lincoln Cathedral ( From Pub To Pulpit ) Date: Saturday 08 Oct 2022 Start / Doors: 00:00 Tickets: £0 - £20 Wells Cathedral ( From Pub To Pulpit ) Date: Wednesday 12 Oct 2022 Start / Doors: 19:30 Tickets: TBC Carlisle Cathedral, 7, The Abbey, Carlisle, CA3 8TZ Date: Thursday 20 Oct 2022 Start / Doors: 19:30 Tickets: £15 (talk & concert) £10 (concert only) / 16-18yrs £5 / Under-16s Free Hull Minster ( From Pub To Pulpit ) Date: Saturday 26 Nov 2022 Start / Doors: 19:00 |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST Date: 27 Sep 22 - 10:09 AM Thanks for that, henryp. As well as those mentioned, we have more lined up for next year. We've done the show twice now, plus a stripped-down version without church choir, at Broadstairs Festival. it has been well received, and we enjoy doing it. Richard (of Broomdasher). |
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Subject: RE: Vaughan Williams BBC Tuesday From: GUEST,henryp Date: 19 Oct 22 - 06:02 AM Potiphar's Apprentices are named after Charles Potiphar, from whom RVW collected the first song which inspired him to look for more of the songs which he had thought lost and forgotten. Our aim is to help return some of the songs - many from previously-unpublished material - to the community. Our third CD, Ballad of Essex, is now available. A concert to mark its launch will be held on Friday 21 October 2022 at Finchingfield Guildhall, Braintree, Essex where you may buy tickets (£10 each). |
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