BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way

Subject: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 12:00 PM

Sometimes in the midst of evil good things happen that are so unexpected and full of humanity that they nearly take my breath away. Outside of Europe you may not read the story in full so here it is:

(1) France is an extremely secular country since 1789. That's why they have made a new law prohibiting women to wear a headscarf (there is one other word I don't recollect) at school. The Muslim community is full of rage about that law and many Muslim schoolgirls had planned to wear the headscarf tomorrow at the rentree in defiance of the law.

(2) Some days ago two French journalists have been kidnapped in Iraq. The kidnappers have threatened to kill them the by now well known way if the French government does not revoke the law within 48 hours and allow Muslim women to wear headscarf, Burka, or whatever they want.

I guess that was not new to you but it is necessary to know for to understand what comes now:

All over France Muslims and Muslim organisations rally to speak up against this way of fighting for an aim they share. Not this way, they say, even fairly extreme ones and say they have more in common with the French idea of democracy and parliamentary decision making even if they dislike one particular law than with those terrorists pretending to fight for them.

I see the interviews in TV with Muslim schoolgirls who had planned to wear the headscarf tomorrow with all consequences and now say they won't. 'I do not want to have blood on my headscarf' 'They've taken me hostage and they will not force me to do what I would have loved doing voluntarily.' 'Before that I had planned to act in solidarity with my Muslim sisters, but now I can't.'

Whatever the terrorists may have had in mind they have failed dismally. The fundamentalists' war cry that the Muslim only has one nation, the Muslim nation, falls on deaf ears in France. The terrorists unwillingly have done more for the integration of French Muslims into the society than many well meaning people.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 12:09 PM

Wolfgang:

Thanks for that story of decency. I went to college in an international house with a minority of Americans, and we even posted a large wall map of the world, deliberately slicing it as not intended, to show the US on the borders not in the center. And I've travelled in Europe on my own, only a long time ago. I have learned the lesson that humankind is pretty much the same wherever you find us, just colored and flavored a little differently. Unfortunately I need to be reminded of this fact. It is as food for the soul, like vitamins to the psyche.

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 12:34 PM

Thank you for posting this, Wolfgang.

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 01:46 PM

Wolfgang, the French haven't just banned the wearing of symbols of the Muslim religion - they have banned the wearing of ALL religious symbols in their schools, including Christian ones such as crucifixes. It's not an anti-Muslim thing, they believe it will unite rather than divide different religious communities in France. Looks like they could be right, although not for the reasons they originally thought. Let's hope so.

Not judging on this, just commenting.

J :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: DougR
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 01:56 PM

I had not heard the "rest of the story" as a popular commentator is won't to say in the U. S. Very interesting Wolfgang. Thanks for posting.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Nerd
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 02:10 PM

Yes, Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 02:28 PM

Viva la France.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 07:06 PM

Strolling Johnny,

I had thought that was clear but I guess you're right that it wasn't. You're completely right: All religious symbols are banned from schools irrespective of the religion.

There is only one religion in France for which that ban seems to be a problem for a larger number of followers. That's how it started. However, that is a different problem I would prefer not to discuss in this thread.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 07:57 PM

"All religious symbols are banned from schools irrespective of the religion."

I wish the USA would be so wise....

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 08:21 PM

Interesting thing:

France has the largest proportion of Muslims of all the EU countries, which means a LOT of Muslims.

As I understand it far and away most of the Islamic leadership in the country are AGAINST repealing the law, at least under the circumstances we're now reading about, and in favor of sending their girls to the schoolroom without the headscarves.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: mack/misophist
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:28 PM

My long standing dislike of Islam begins to crumble. These are admirable people. Thank you, Wolfgang.

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:30 PM

Wolfgang - "1) France is an extremely secular country since 1789. That's why they have made a new law prohibiting women to wear a headscarf (there is one other word I don't recollect) at school. The Muslim community is full of rage about that law and many Muslim schoolgirls had planned to wear the headscarf tomorrow at the rentree in defiance of the law."

I realise that English isn't your first language (although you do write it very well), but the above cut from your post clearly implies that the new law applies only to headscarves. I just wanted to clarify that the law applies to all religious sysmbols, and wasn't a specific law against Muslims (even though some Muslims may feel that it is?)

Not disagreeing with you in any way about your hopes for peace and unity between religious groups in France, or indeed everywhere. It's been a long time a-comin', maybe there's hope at last?

Cheers,
SJ :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 06:35 AM

I have often jokingly gone anti-French in a lot of threads as it is the traditional English thing to do (Only 2 things I hate, racism and the French...) but in this case I cannot give them enough praise, particularly the French Muslims. It makes me really glad that the French have the sense and courage to do things differently and that we have such wonderfuly whacky neighbours:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Fighting terrorism the French Muslim way
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 11:03 AM

I work at an urban high school in the US that currently kowtows to two religions: Christian religion (especially the African American Baptists and Eur Am Protestants, but not Catholics of course) and the Muslim religion. It is mind boggling to watch the way the Muslim religion is being catered to here, especially because we have a fairly sizable Jewish student community, and somewhat smaller Buddhist and Hindu communities, at our school that have never received an equivalent "equal" treatment in the schools. The only accomodation those groups get is an excused absence for their holy days.

It is very odd. I have been vocally supporting the ban on religious symbols in the French schools as this controversy has played itself out over the last several years. The problem here in the US public education system is we don't have school uniforms, so it is now impossible to enforce such dress codes as the "national public school standard". I really wish we did have uniforms. Then it would be much easier to police the boundary between church and state in the US, as it is in France.

As it stands now, what keeps happening is the Christians keep getting their foot in the door on more and more issues in public education. Last year in my school library, we had a meeting called by our African American Baptist district superintendent of area religious leaders, looking to become involved in educational initiatives in and partnerships with our public schools.

I was appalled, as were a number of other staff at the school. But our African American Baptist principal thought it was just great.

So, for those of you who think it is just the Eur Am Bushie/Falwell fundies who are taking over our American public education system, think again. There is just as strong and vocal a movement of conservative, reactionary Christians in the schools: the African American Baptists. They are insinuating themselves into the schools by manipulative use of the "cultural tradition" euphemism for playing the race card. They get away with it by doing things like bringing their church music to middle school auditorium stages all across America in little African American Baptist themed "escaped from slavery" pageants, that sort of thing.

Old school African American education leaders never used to do this sort of thing. But now, with the fundie Christians having risen to the political ascendancy in the New Democrat/New Republican USA, the fundamentalist leaning, conservative African American Baptist middle class is right there taking advantage of it. These are the people who proclaim Bill Clinton as "the first black President".