Lyr/Tune Req: Ellan Vannen

Subject: Ellen Vannen
From: Chris Harrison
Date: 10 Feb 97 - 11:38 AM

I am looking for the words and music to a song of the above name. Has anyone heard of it?

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From:
Date: 11 Feb 97 - 11:40 PM

Here's the words as I heard them sung by an English girl about 20 years ago. I don't know how to transmit the tune. It's about the Isle of Man between England and Ireland. The opening line refers to mountains which the company's ships are named after. I believe the island is also referred to as "Mona's Isle" in myth and legend. The date in the end verse may have gone through the folk process and be incorrect.

Snaefell, Tinwald, Ben McCree,
14 ships have sailed the sea
Proudly bearing a Manx name,
Now there's one will never again
Now there's one will never again

Chorus: (sung after each verse)
Oh Ellen Vannen of the Isle of Mann company
Oh Ellen Vannen, Lost in the Irish sea

At one AM in Ramsay Bay,
Captain Tare was heard to say,
"Our contract is to deliver the mail,
In this rough weather we must not fail"

With her crew of 21 Manx men
Her passengers Liverpool business men
Farewell to Mona's Isle, farewell
This little ship is bound for hell

Ocean liners sheltered from the storm
While Ellen Vannen on the sea was borne
Her hold was full and battened down
As she sailed toward far Liverpool town

Just a mile from the Bar light ship (a signal buoy ?)
Ellen Vannen by a wave was hit
She sank in the waters of Liverpool bay
And there she lies until this day

Few Manx men now remember
The third day of the month November
The terrible storm of 1909
When Ellen Vannen sailed for the very last time

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Lynn
Date: 15 Feb 97 - 04:28 PM

The Ellen Vannin Tragedy is a Manx song which I first heard recorded by the Spinners - you may still be able to get hold of it, but I'm sorry I can't find the name of the lp.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From:
Date: 07 Apr 98 - 04:58 PM

Thanks to all who have posted to this thread, especially lesben for the lyrics.

I will gladly pay all costs if anyone has the music for this one.

Dave

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Susan of DT
Date: 07 Apr 98 - 07:44 PM

Always try the database first - it is in there already

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Bartje
Date: 08 Apr 98 - 05:04 PM

Here are the words as we learned them from the Irish group Oisin. You can find it on an album called The Jennie C. I know the song was written by Hughie Jones a member of the group the Spinners, who has recorded it himself on an CD, called Hughie's ditty-bag.

ELLEN VANIN

Snaefell, Tynwald, Benmachree,
Fourteen ships all on the sea
Each one bearing a Manx name
But there is one will never sail again
Oh, Ellen Vanin of the Isle of Man company
Oh, Ellen Vanin lost in the Irish sea
At one A.M. in Ramsey Bay,
Captain Tier was heard to say
Our contract says deliver the mail
In this rough weather we must not fail

Two liners sheltered from the storm
Ellen Vanin on the waves was born
Her hold was full and battened down
As she sailed forth from Liverpool town
With a crew of twenty-one Manx men
Her passengers Liverpool businessmen
Farewell ye mourners, aye, farewell
This little ship was doomed for hell
'T was less than a mile from the Balroys ship
By a mighty wave Ellen Vanin was hit
She sank in the waters of Liverpool Bay
And there she lies until this day
Very few men can now remember
The third day of the month December
A terrible storm in ninety nine
Ellen Vanin sailed for the very last time

Good luck!

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: BIGJ
Date: 08 Apr 98 - 07:50 PM

Are you sure that this is the song you're looking for (The Wreck of the Ellan Vannin - written by Hughie Jones?). There is another song called simply 'Ellan Vannin' written by Eliza Craven Green which begins, 'When the summer day is over and it's busy cares have flown'.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: alison
Date: 08 Apr 98 - 08:28 PM

Hi,

Here goes for a little Irish story... are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin....

Once upon a time.... Finn McCool (famous Irish giant who built the Giant's Causeway) decided there wasn't enough water in Northern Ireland, (I'd like to know how he decided this seeing as it rains a lot!!). so he picked up a handful of ground from the centre of Northern Ireland and hurled it into the Irish Sea. The hole filled with water and became Lough Neagh, and the piece he threw away became the Isle of Man......

Think i'm making it up eh???

Check it out on a map if you don't believe me... now I'm off to chat to the leprechaun who lives behind my shed...

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From:
Date: 09 Apr 98 - 11:18 PM

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,Julia Henderson
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 11:26 AM

Hello People

I am a Spinners fan and it is their album I first heard the song from I think the album is called the best of the Spinners, there are some other interesting songs on it. One is called the D Day dodgers, It goes to the tune of lillie marlaine, and was written by a member of the eighth army, who were trapped in Italy, it is quite poiniant.

Take care

Julia Henderson.

So pleased I have found this site I have been trying to locate these words myself.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 11:44 AM

I think that's the LP that I learned this song from too!!

I spent some time in the National Records Office at Kew, and found the manifest for this tragic ship. The captains' name is recorded there as Teare and it took place in 1909 (sung as nineteen nine) not nintey nine as in the last set of posted words.

LTS

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,Jan
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM

First of all the correct song title is ELLAN VANNIN and was witten by Hughie Jones ( of The Spinners) the posting by LTS is quite correct the Captain's name was Teare and it was 1909. Hughie "wrote" it in his head while cutting the lawn one day! went indoors and committed it to paper and so the legend was born.

Other postings listed are also correct the version is on Hughies Ditty Bag - in fact the front cover shows him wearing the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company official sweater given to him by the company as a Thank You.

Any more info wanted please let me know - Hughie is one of our closest friends and he is always happy to answer questions etc - but does not like PC's!

Jan

Always happy to help

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 07:15 PM

I have a book called New British Broadsides in which is published Ellen Vannin, words and music by Hugh Jones copyright Spin Publications 1965

Notes
The Ellen Vannin, a small ship built in 1860,plied between Liverpool and the Isle of Man and was sunk in a stormy sea in 1909. Hugh Jones, a member of the Spinners folk song group, wrote this song with the assistance of Ted Hughes, retired engineer, Stan Hugill, and the Isle of Man Packet Company.

Incidentally "Ellen Vannin" is Manx for "Isle of Man"
I recorded this about 15 years ago

Jan- say hi to Hughie from me (and Fred) and we'll hope to see him at the International Festival of the Sea in Portsmouth in June

Best- Julia Lane /Castlebay

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Snuffy
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 07:27 PM

I have an old LP of the Spinners which contains a live recording from 1965 of a song called "The Ellen Vannin Tragedy", and the composing credit is "Bosworth". And it is spelled Ellen not Ellan on front & back sleeve and label.

Can't access a turntable to check at the moment - is this a different song? If not, who is Bosworth?

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 07:44 PM

Guest, Julia HENDERSON
The words to D-Day Dodgers were written by Hamish HENDERSON, along with Fare well ye Banks of Sicily and the "Freedom Come All Ye" one of Scotland's greatest ever songwriters. his works are celebrated on a CD called "A' the Bairns o' Adam" - well worth a listen!
TB

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 08:39 PM

Mona is an old name for Anglesea in Wales?

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 01:25 AM

Robin Gibb (Bee Gees) also does a song called Ellen Vannen, which he describes as the "unofficial Manx National Anthem".

A real haunting melody that includes bagpipes and brilliant lyrics, although they are nothing to do with the boat tragedy.

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but then, I am a mine of useless information.

WHB

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:44 AM

From this site (which also has a picture of said ship, and further info on the sinking):

The Ellan Vannin was originally built as an iron paddle steamer and named Mona's Isle. Constructed in Scotland by Tod & MacGregor at Meadowside, Glasgow in 1860 at a cost of 10,673UKL. She had a gross tonnage on building of 339 tons, top speed of 12 knots and an overall length of 63.09metres. She was launched on 10 April 1860.In 1883 the Mona's Isle was converted to a twin screw steamer by Westray, Copeland and Co. of Barrow and renamed Ellan Vannin on 16 November 1883. Ellan Vannin is the Gaelic for "Isle of Man".

I believe that, as the Manx language was traditionally never written down but only survived orally, any spellings (such as Ellan Vannin, Ellen Vannen etc.) are debatable and variable and not worth losing sleep over.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Snuffy
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 08:40 AM

History of Publications in Manx. First Manx Bible 1748.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 10:44 AM

"I believe that, as the Manx language was traditionally never written down but only survived orally, any spellings (such as Ellan Vannin, Ellen Vannen etc.) are debatable and variable and not worth losing sleep over."

Manx was a written language from the 17th Century onwards, when the Book of Common Prayer and the Bible were translated, though most people were illiterate both in Manx and English. The orthography reflects this lack of ancient literature, and the fact that the translators probably knew neither Irish nor Scottish Gaelic.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 12:12 PM

Thanks, Snuffy and Paul- I should know better than to make such a sweeping statement with very little information. I was foolishly repeating what I had previously heard. I now know more: (both following quotes from MANX LANGUAGE
ITS GRAMMAR, LITERATURE, AND PRESENT STATE: A PAPER READ BEFORE THE PHILOLOGICAL SOCIETY, JUNE 18TH, 1875 BY HENRY JENNER, ESQ., OF THE MS. DEPARTMENT, BRITISH MUSEUM.)


Irish, like Welsh, is a literary and cultivated tongue, and one that has been from an early period reduced to rule, and not allowed to form itself how it pleased in the mouths of illiterate peasants. Scotch, like Breton, has not had quite the same advantages, though it also has not been entirely neglected; while Manx, like Cornish, has simply been allowed to go to pieces, and, until quite recent times, has never been worked upon in any way, and, like Cornish, in its decay it has preserved the characteristics of the less cultivated of its fellows.

and

In appearance on paper Manx differs considerably from either of the other two, but that is chiefly owing to its attempted phonetic system of orthography, and the consequent absence of the multitude of silent letters that so encumber Irish and Scotch.

I think this is what led to my previous belief- as Manx looks rather like a Gaelic language writen down phonetically by an English speaker.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:34 PM

I heard it sung by Ged Todd while on a ferry trip from Hull to Zebrugge during a force 8 gale. The ferry was lurching a bucking and he started (and finished) singing the Ellen Vannin Tragedy with chorus from the drinking crowd in the 1st class lounge. Funniest moment I can remember on a ferry!!.

Spot

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,BIGJ
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:51 PM

WHB
The version that the BGs recorded is the one that I mentioned in my post of almost seven years ago (see earlier in this thread).
The Gibbs, of course, lived in the Isle of Man for several years.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,Tom Harwood
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 05:06 PM

I heard this song the other week on an ancient spinners record in my mums collection. I wanted to play it but have found very little mention of it on the internet so figured out the chords myself. Not sure how good they are but this is what I came up with...

Cm                        Fm      Cm
Snaefell, Tynwald, Ben My Chree
Cm                            Gm          Cm
Fourteen ships had sailed the sea
Cm       F         Dm(?)       Gm
Proudly bearing a Manx name
Cm                            Gm    Cm
But there's one will never again
Fm               Cm               Fm             Cm
Oh Ellan Vannin, of the Isle of Man Company
Fm             Cm                Gm       Cm
Oh Ellan Vannin, lost in the Irish Sea

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 05:21 PM

Just a little bit of useless background....

Ben My Chree means something 'of my heart'... lost the bit of paper it was on.

Snaefell is the mountain that is only just a mountain by 4 ft. A hill is 2032ft high, a mountain is taller than that. Tynwold is the name of the Manx Parliament. It's a large tiered earthwork with a flag standard in the centre, where the Parliament literally, sit.

LTS

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,BIGJ
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 07:28 AM

"where the Parliament literally sit"

But only on the 5th of July Liz.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 08:27 AM

That was also on the bit of paper I lost!

LTS

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:48 PM

I believe a "Ben" is a mountain in Gaelic?
Julia

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 06:05 AM

Snaefell, Tynwald, Ben my Chree- these names were still in use for the later generation of steamers that took us on a series of blissfully happy holidays there in the early 1960s, sailing out of Liverpool from near the Pier Head. The long walk (for small legs) from the boat to the train station, the crazy little railway with red steam engines and wooden carriages, the bumpy ride finishing in a tiny station seemingly far from any habitation, then the walk through the glen to the holiday cottage... thanks for bringing all this back.

Note the strong Norse influence- Tynwald is the same as the Icellandic Thingvellir, Snaefell is just snow mountain.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 06:57 AM

http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/IOMSP1.html#anchor1049559 - for a really good pictorial history

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 07:35 AM

Hi all

I have a great version of Ellen Vannen by a long gone cheshire group named Millers Thumb. The writing credit on the sleeve says "Bosworth".

Absolutely great song

By the way Mon (not mona) is Welsh for Anglesey.

Cheers
LL

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 07:40 AM

This is one of my favourite songs and I love singing it. It's nice to have found out so much more about the background from this thread.

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 09:23 AM

So is "Bosworth" a pseudonym for Hughie Jones, or are there two separate songs?

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:01 AM

Google searh "Ellan Vannin MP3" - this site has MP3 of the spinners and all data of their CDs

Subject: RE: Ellen Vannen
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 03:45 PM

Francis K. Bosworth was a name used by the Spinners when copyrighting their songs. Even the traditional ones sometimes!

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Ellan Vannen
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 07:53 PM

Thankyou, guest. The evidence was in front of me all along: I see on the same LP there is:
Drunken Sailor (Trad. arr. Bosworth)A-Roving (Trad. arr. & adpt. Bosworth)
Mandy (Bosworth)

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Ellan Vannen
From: JHW
Date: 03 Dec 13 - 03:06 PM

Nice Mondegreen spotted

'Farewell ye mourners, aye, farewell'

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Ellan Vannen
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 13 - 08:28 PM

The origin of the names is Latin, Mōna. When the Romans left in 425, the Welsh filled the power vacuum along the entire north-west coast, which is why the west side of the Pennines is called Cumbria: one or two relics survived in local dialect, such as the shepherd's count "yan tan pethera". The Celtic languages mutate/aspirate, changing the consonants to aid elision: so Anglesea became Ynys Môn, and the Isle of Man became Ellen Vannin, the Little Island of Mōna. And thence, of course, the Isle of Man (or sometimes simply Mann). Mona was also one of the names continuously in use by IOMSPCo ships.