The pros and cons of DADGAD

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: ollaimh
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 10:26 PM

i use dadgad and standard tuning both. usually for different things.dadgad is difficult for sessuin backing--but then i usually play a mandolin, or bouzouki at a sessuin, however a friend of mine used to play dadgbd--two dropped ds for sessuin backing. you get regular chords in the middle four strings and two drones for d or g which reduces the capo needs--he rarely uses one. i almost never use a capo either.

with dadgbd you only have to tune up the high d to e and you get dropped d when wanted or tune the b down to a for dadgad. however he is a fantastic guitarist--he sounds great playing anything.he recorded a smithsonian folklore album in the sixties and toured with john lee hooker.

i used to also play several open c tunings and open d, both are great for certain songs. on a strong guitar those low c notes resonate like crazy. and yeah joni mitchell used many many tunings. she is a genius . she even played revolutionary dulcimer music--for the time

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 06:28 PM

Sounds good this tuning, will have to explore it a bit.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 04:21 PM

I think it does because dadgad or rather adgad is a tuning used occasionally on the 5 string banjo, and dgcd and dgbd and other open tunings are used on 5 string banjo, furthermore Steve Baughman is discussing a style of guitar playing in cgcgcd AKA Orkney [ a tuning closely related to dadgad]melodic playing which has its origins in 5 string[KEITH OR MELODIC PLAYING].
any person who has played banjo and guitar will see that the two stylescan become interchangeable, a melodic banjo style player can transfer that style to Dadgad, or any other open tuning such dgdgbd dgdgcd cgcgcd daf#ad, among the 5 paragraphs it explains the idea of not playing the tune on the same string, it also refers to BENSUSAN, and his harp like style in dadgad, as far as I understand the articles there is a link between melodic banjo playing, melodic guitar playing.
example 1.. What classifies Melodic Banjo? Melodic Banjo can be easily differentiated by its unique sound...there's a cascading quality to it...it can sound almost like a harp or a harpsichord...some notes will continue to ring while other melody notes go floating by. This is caused by the consecutive notes being played, which classifies this style, are almost never played on the same string.
example 2.The Orkney tuning (CGDGCD) has become my favorite over the years. It is a wonderful tool for melodic (non-linear) playing, in which you avoid playing subsequent notes on the same string. This technique (Pierre Bensusan calls it "harp style,") allows for a very smooth and gentle delivery of the melody and avoids the staccato effect that marks many guitar arrangements of fiddle tunes.
connection 3.Pierre Bensusan calls it "harp style,"Pierre Bensusan DOES THIS IN dadgad

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 03:18 PM

"you liking it is not what is under discussion, what is under discussion is it harmonically limited?.?"

What is under discussion is the question of "The pros and cons of DADGAD", which is what I addressed. I'm not sure that pasting five paragraphs on melodic banjo has advanced that discussion very much, Dick.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:58 PM

here is what Steve Baughman has to say about orkney tuning
This tuning has nothing to do with the islands off the northern coast of Scotland. I have simply chosen Orkney as a shorthand way to refer to CGDGCD tuningwhose rise to prominence has been hampered solely by the fact that, unlike DADGAD, it is impossible to pronounce.

The Orkney tuning (CGDGCD) has become my favorite over the years. It is a wonderful tool for melodic (non-linear) playing, in which you avoid playing subsequent notes on the same string. This technique (Pierre Bensusan calls it "harp style,") allows for a very smooth and gentle delivery of the melody and avoids the staccato effect that marks many guitar arrangements of fiddle tunes.

The Orkney tuning is also a great tuning for session back-up. I like it better than DADGAD. You get one extra note's range in the first position and when you're in C, (which in Orkney is often,) you've got a fifth in easy reach at the fifth fret of the first string. This allows for a nice ringy sound. In DADGADyou'd have to stretch your pinkie to the 7th fret to get the equivalent effect.

Drawbacks are that the 6th string tuned down to a C note can sometimes become a bit spaghetti-like and hard to tune. I find, however, that using a heavy 6th string makes this problem quite manageable. Another possible drawback is that playing in D or A is best done with a capo at the 2nd fret. Some people prefer an, un-capoed sound. On the other hand, you may like the higher, ringy sound of the second fret D and A chords.

In all, it's a great tuning. In fact, my theory is that the only thing keeping CGDGCD from overtaking DADGADas the session player's tuning of choice is that its name has heretofore been impossible to pronounce. Accordingly, I hereby christen it "ORKNEY" to sharpen its competitive edge. Try it out and let me know what you think.
this idea of what he describes as melodic plying comes from a 5 string banjo player called Bill Keith who used other banjo tunings other than dgcd, including dgbd[similar to guitar tuning dgdgbd see below.Melodic Style Banjo Introduction

Melodic Style Banjo has been around since the 1950s and 1960s...introduced by Bill Keith and Bobby Thompson...brought to further popularity by the likes of Alan Munde, Bela Fleck, Butch Robins, Tony Trischka, Larry McNeely, Pat Cloud and Pete Wernick. (along with many others)
What is Melodic Style Banjo? Melodic Style Banjo has its origins in the adaptation of the 5-string banjo to playing note for note fiddle tunes...Bill Keith spearheaded this approach and even played this very same style within Bill Monroe's band. He adapted many fiddle tunes including: "Devil's Dream", "Sailor's Hornpipe" and even standards such as "Caravan". His facility with this style has been well respected by most every aspiring banjo player since the 1960s...and even today, Bill still travels most of the year teaching this style along with music theory at banjo workshops. His influence has been well established and is now considered an integral part of the evolution and legacy of the banjo.

Melodic style banjo is known by a few other names: Keith Style, Chromatic Style and Fiddle Tune Style...today, it doesn't seem to hold the same popularity it once did in the '70s. This is surprising considering this style offers another dimension to what can be accomplished with the 5-string banjo. The cascading beauty of melodic banjo cannot be emulated by any other approach...including Single-String Style (made popular and innovated by Don Reno), Scruggs Style (the bluegrass standard), Classical Banjo (known as parlor style), or Frailing (clawhammer and traditional Appalachian)...all of these approaches to the 5-string banjo resonate with their very own beauty...and deserve the highest regard within the history and development of the 5-string banjo. Notwithstanding, Melodic Banjo deserves its very own place within this legacy of banjo styles. Outside of the fact that this approach always seemed to lay in the shadows, while a few progressive exponents of the style have carried it forward, it may still be discovered as a mainstream approach in its own right. It has its very own uniqueness of which no other style can emulate...the flow of cascading notes falling down like a colorful waterfall over precipices of never-ending scales lays down the simple fact that Melodic Banjo is here to stay...whether in obscurity or not.

Now, as a complete banjoist, having some Melodic Banjo technique in your arsenal will add to your ability to create optimal lead or back-up for most any musical setting. Keep in mind, there is a time and place to apply the melodic style...many times you'll want to consider the origin of the tune you're playing. Your goal as a tasteful player is to contribute to the song; you should not haphazardly arrange nor play a passage for the sake of displaying technique. When putting together your first melodic passages, find ways to make it contributory to the song's message. Technique in itself can be fun to pursue...however, when it comes to the ultimate goal of contributing to a musical setting, whether a recording session or a performance, make your best effort to contribute to the message...no matter how simple or complex the final arrangement becomes, the main question you want to ask yourself is: Did I contribute or take away from this musical setting? Having Melodic Banjo Technique to tap into may just add a new dimension in your efforts to master your banjo.

Now, let's dissect this approach to 5-String Banjo called Melodic Banjo:
1. What classifies Melodic Banjo? Melodic Banjo can be easily differentiated by its unique sound...there's a cascading quality to it...it can sound almost like a harp or a harpsichord...some notes will continue to ring while other melody notes go floating by. This is caused by the consecutive notes being played, which classifies this style, are almost never played on the same string.
2. How is Melodic Banjo different than Scruggs Style? Melodic banjo offers note-for-note melody lines. Scruggs Style is based on chords and rolls with accents on the interspersed melody notes within chordal forms.
3. Melodic Banjo differs from Single String Style in the approach to the melody. In Single String approach, the melody is played in a linear fashion. For instance, three or four notes will be consecutively played on the same string. Whereas, in the Melodic approach, the melody will be played in a more vertical fashion. From note to note, the strings are played alternatively...one note per new string played. Very seldom do two consecutive notes occur on the same string...and on the rare occasion that they are played on the same string, the two notes would be connected by a slur through a hammer-on or a pull-off. This retains the floating effect that's characteristic of Melodic Style Banjo.

The best methodology for learning to play Melodic Banjo, is the scalar approach. First become familiar with the scales and patterns that constitute this style, and you'll have the skeletal framework necessary in arranging and executing melodies as a Melodic Banjo player.
Copyright ©2000-2011 Mystic West Media

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:47 PM

ok, Brian but dadgad still only gives YOU 3 keys, so it is limited harmonically compared to cgcgda [5 keys] or standard or drop d.

"I don't doubt that standard tuning is the most flexible, and I wouldn't use DADGAD if I were trying to play jazz. It's just that standard doesn't give me the sound I like, to accompany traditional songs and dance music"
"Well, it's held my interest for thirty years now - perhaps you should have stuck at it a bit longer. And what are "distinctively harmonic limitations"?
you liking it is not what is under discussion, what is under discussion is it harmonically limited?.
I have given you an answer to its limitations.
I like it too on occasions, but I do not like to use it exclusively, although as I stated before, Bensusan has explored it in depth and shown what its possibilites are with a lot of work.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM

I can think of very few British traditional players who used guitar. "Peerie" Willie Johnson from Shetland, of course, and I've a photo in an EFDSS magazine from the '60s of an Orkney trio comprising fiddle, accordion and slide guitar. The Norfolk melodeon player Percy Brown was sometimes accompanied on guitar by his son-in-law Fred Devo. No doubt there were others, but the guitar never found a place in traditional music to compare with fiddle, the free-reed family, flute and whistle, or even bagpipes.

It was the folk revival, influenced by American music, which saw the introduction of the guitar in large numbers into the folk clubs. There's no question that among folk revival musicians the guitar has a significant presence. However in the absence of any traditional British styles the British folk scene has developed its own, which makes considerable use of open tunings - of which DADGAD is just one.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:28 PM

"he used dadgad for sailors life and although he liked the sound he found it confining and never felt comfortable using it as he could only play in the key of d"

See my previous post about DADGAD in G and A positions.

I don't doubt that standard tuning is the most flexible, and I wouldn't use DADGAD if I were trying to play jazz. It's just that standard doesn't give me the sound I like, to accompany traditional songs and dance music.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:12 PM

of course cgda is a tenor banjo tuning, and for those people who are used to flatpicking irish tunes on a tenor banjo , those irish tunes can be transferred straight away.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:09 PM

Martin Carthy appears to use cgcdgd,cgcdga,for tune playing
MARTIN states in his book that dadeae enabled him to play in two keys d and a, he then dropped the tuning a whole tone to suit his voice he goes on to say that later on he dropped the top d down to a and ... by using cgcdga, he could play in four of five keys c.g.f.d. and possibly a minor.
he also says he used dadgad for sailors life and although he liked the sound he found it confining and never felt comfortable using it as he could only play in the key of d.
of course this is only Martins opinion, but his comment about more flexibilty of keys in cgcgda while retaining the open key sound is very interesting.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 01:36 PM

1. The inabilty to modulate easily to different keys,WHICH IS ONE OF THE GREAT ADVANTAGES OF STANDARD TUNING.


Couldn't agree more. Standard tuning has evolved over along period and exists for the very sound reason that it allows a far greater range of possiblities than any of the others. I use it 80% of the time.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 01:14 PM

it does have distinctive harmonic limitations.
1. The inabilty to modulate easily to different keys,WHICH IS ONE OF THE GREAT ADVANTAGES OF STANDARD TUNING.
String singer is correct Bensusan is one of the few people who has explored Dadgad extensively.
the reason why Carthy hardly uses dadgad these days, but uses dadeae, or the c based variant of this.. is because it is less limited harmonically than dadgad, And because it allows the player more flexibilty key wise .
Another tuning which has less harmonic limitations than dadgad is orkney tuning, cgcgcd.
dadgad is not the only tuning suited to folk music, or especially irish music, that is just untrue, dadf#ad dgdgbd, dgdgcd, are all tunings that really suit[in the first 2] blues and all suit american 5 string banjo tunes.
irish tunes are very suited to dadeae[ that is why it is known as Irish tuning[check out paul de grae]
finally one of the finest irish gutarists arty mc glynn, uses dadgbe[ drop d], and proves it is eminently suitable for irish music, playing tunes and as well as rhythym.
Dick Gaughan[i believe used a tuning for coppers and brass which was based on the tenor banjo daddae]
Dadgad is ok but it does have certain limitations, in fact more limitations than some other open tunings, check out Martin Carthys opinion on this and martin simpson and nic jones.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: tonyteach1
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 01:02 PM

FAO Howard Jones - do not disagree with you about DADGAD but take issue on the British folk tradition and its use of guitars

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:31 PM

"I have found that DADGAD tuning is interesting for the first fifteen minutes. It has distinctively harmonic limitations."

Well, it's held my interest for thirty years now - perhaps you should have stuck at it a bit longer. And what are "distinctively harmonic limitations"?

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 11:38 AM

I have found that DADGAD tuning is interesting for the first fifteen minutes. It has distinctively harmonic limitations.

An interesting use of alternate tunings is David Crosby's "Guinivere". Does anyone know what that tuning is? Was it DADGAD?

My preference is for Pierre Bensusan who has explored this tuning to an art.

Even so, don't expect that tuning to fare well in the area of jazz,due to its inflexibility.

Joni Mitchell has come up with some interesting tunings also, probably her own and not DADGAD. "Micheal From Mountains" for example.

Here's another tuning to experiment with used to good results by acoustic jazz guitarists Karl Kress and Marty Grosz, Bb,F,C,G,B,D, the bottom four strings are like tenor banjo tuning and the top four (C-D) are like plectrum banjo tuning. This tuning uses the bass lines in chord progressions effectively.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 10:38 AM

Without getting into a "what is folk" argument, I distinguish between the original folk tradition and the folk revival as reflected in folk clubs. I was referring to the use of guitar in the British musical tradition, where it was seldom found (although there are some examples). The guitar is widespread in folk clubs, but this is a feature of the folk revival. Without a true traditional style to emulate, a style of playing British folk music has developed which relies heavily on open tunings. That's not to say that standard tuning isn't also widely used.

With respect, Tonyteach1, your post did not ask about the advantages of DADGAD but commented that it seemed no more useful than other tunings. My point in reply was that all tunings have their strengths and weaknesses, and you have to pick the one that most suits the music you're trying to play.

The advantages of DADGAD is that it seems particularly suited to folk music, and perhaps expecially Irish music, for reasons which are set out above. In particular, the chord voicings seem to be particularly suited to tunes which are often modal (and let's not start another discussion about what "modal" means)

Personally I've never got on with DADGAD and prefer DADEAE (one of Carthy's tunings, although he's since developed it further)

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 10:29 AM

The point has been made already but, to reiterate it, one of the main advantages of DADGAD (apart from the greater depth it adds to the D chord - a chord that crops up very commonly in accompanying fiddle music) is that it encourages a range of chords with no thirds, i.e. neither major nor minor. To my ears those chords sound appropriate when accompanying the kind of modal tunes that you find in English folk song and much dance music. Of course it is possible to add the thirds, and deliberately warm up the sound of the chords, but you don't have them imposed on you as you do with standard tuning.

It's also very good if you like the sound of a drone - playing partial chords of G, C, Bm, Em, etc., whilst leaving D and possibly A strings open.

The main problem with it is that it can become very monotonous if you just play in the key of D and hammer away at the basic one-finger D chord. There are half a dozen of more versions and inversions of D and G chords, all of which give different flavours, and playing DADGAD in the key of G or A modal also gets away from the cliched sound.

Howard Jones is quite right about American music - the standard-tuned guitar has been a part of that since the first commercial recordings of early country and bluegrass music (blues slide gutarists used open tunings, not DADGAD), and DADGAD tends to sound inauthentic when added to a country song or Southern fiddle tune. Though to my mind it can sound good with a modally-tuned banjo or modal Appalachian ballad. There's no comparable history of guitar accompaniment to English folk music predating the 1960s folk revival, so the guitarists experimenting in that period with accompaniments to English folk songs started with a more or less clean slate.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 08:53 AM

I detect a "what is folk" moment coming on...

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: tonyteach1
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 08:51 AM

FAO Howard Jones - I have been going into folk clubs for nearly 50 years There are people who play open tunings and people who dont't Classical and flamenco use altered tuning as well There are altered tunings in the blues for slide and the Vestapol tuning in the US

I would also dispute that the guitar is not widely found in British folk music I have seen lots in in every folk club I have been to.

I was asking about the specific advantages of DADGAD

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 07:48 AM

tonyteach1, all tunings, including "standard" have their strengths and weaknesses. You're right, you wouldn't use DADGAD or a lot of other open tunings to play "All the Things You Are" in A Flat - but for the styles of music which this forum is mostly about they have some advantages. Using different tunings opens up different possibilities - the trick is to match those possibilities to the particular piece of music and choose the most appropriate tuning for the job.

There's also a cultural aspect. The guitar is a traditional instrument in American folk music and there is a traditional guitar sound based largely on standard tuning. The instrument isn't widely found in British traditional music, and its use is mainly a feature of the folk revival. A British style of folk guitar has developed which is largely based on open tunings.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:58 PM

Yes, Dick - and with another capo you can run that mock DADGAD up three frets (if the heel on your guitar is small and it is 14 frets to the body) and in fact IMHO the internal fingerings are better than true DADGAD.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 01:30 PM

Good News - anyone can play it
Bad News - Anyone can play it

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 12:59 PM

Martin Carthy does not use Dadgad these days, hardly at all.I PREFER CGCGCD,
Or second fret partial capo standard tuning 543 strings, very similiar to dadgad, handy if you can sing in e modal [which i can] and avoids a lot of retuning .

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: tonyteach1
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 12:44 PM

I thought I would revive this thread as there is discussion about strings I am a guitar and piano teacher DADGAD seems no more useful to me than a lot of other tunings if you like it good but its no good if you want to play All theThings You Are in A Flat

Great admirer of Martin Carthy and Wizz Jones Bert Jansch

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: David C. Carter
Date: 23 Nov 05 - 11:29 AM

To GUEST HESS,I saw Kevin Coyne one time back in the dark ages,and he played lap style,he was fretting the strings with just his thumb.I tried this,using open G.You don't have to hold down all the strings,you kind of move your thumb across the fretboard selecting which strings you want to play.Did you ever hear his album"Marjory Razorblade",if not,it's well worth a listen or three.......

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 10:56 AM

"does anyone know of a site where there are DADGAD chord charts
to copy or print out?"

There's a chord chart on my web site I linked to above...

:-)

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: rhyzla
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 09:49 AM

Just out of interest, a play a twin neck, with the 6 in DADGAD and the mando in GDAD.

It's good fun playing on one, and letting the other resonate, and to jump from one to another in a song!

Back to the start of this thread - don't see how you can have a con from a tuning - only how it's played.

I've used DADGAD for 10 years, but use lots of others aswell.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 09:35 AM

One pro is how well sueted DADGAD is for all the great " dorian" mode tunes and songs . .: Jefferson & Liberty , Shady Groves, Lovley Joan , Royal Oak
East Virginnia , Polly Dutch Burgers , John Barleycorn ....... Marshall Bearen has written a great tune book for Viol called something like Golden Dorian .. I will go get the exact name but most of them work well with this tuneing ...

All the bst , Guy

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 12:31 AM

I always shunned this tuning thinking of it as the devil and all his works. just utterly opposed to my view of folk music. It always represented to me the self conciously 'traditional' sound that totally alienates anybody not actually wearing a fisherman's smock.

I think the guitarists that changed my mind were Eric roche and ken Nicol. Particularly the latter. he gave a seminar at Fylde folk festival and played some exquisite ragtime and blues. Also Tony Dean of No Fixed Abode, being younger and more open minded than myself, used it as a songwring aid and there was nothing in his approach that sounds like the the St Vitus Dance school of folk music.

I've played it for a few months now, and found it very rewarding. Although there is nothing as yet I'd consider performance standard in it, I hope there will be soon and I'd recommend it as a lot of fun.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 11:52 PM

Pierre Bensusan is reputed to have tabulature for his music on his website... but I've never looked.

www.pierrebensusan.com

Cheerio!
ttr

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 11:27 PM

just checking back to what i wrote here nearly a year ago..

since then i can definitely confirm that electric sitars
and danelectro 12 strings sound brilliant in this tuning..

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: open mike
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 11:16 PM

does anyone know of a site where there are DADGAD chord charts
to copy or print out?
i know i have a book and set of instruction tapes around here somewhere.....

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 03:47 AM

I've always found DADGAD very usefull. The difficult bit is playing in a range of keys. It's OK for D, Dm, G, Am, Bm, Em, and Gm but can be difficult for C. Yoy realy need a good capo. As a derivitive I had Steffan Sobell build me a Cittern (5 course Bouzuki) to tune DADGD. Works very well.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Brendy
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:52 AM

7th fret, Clinton... ;-)

The only thing that holds one back in DAGDAD, is one's imagination.
As you're only 'suggesting' chords, at the best of times, you tend to think in different terms.
Especially when accompanying Irish Trad.
The nuances within the melody are more accurately reflected, IMO, by its modal undertones.

.... thinking of writing a song about Iraq, and doing it in the BAGDAD tuning ....

B.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:48 AM

http://www.jerryjonesguitars.com/Baby%20sitar.htm

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:34 AM

punkfolkrocker

not sure if these are available in Australia - anybody got a link or a pic?

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 06:44 AM

just a note of minor interest..

instructions supplied with a Jerry Jones electric baby sitar..
-the budget version without the sypathetic drone strings-
[my latest new music noisemaker]

"tuning from the factory is a 'drop D'.
You may prefer a DADGAD tuning
or even a standard tuning."

so now theres another reason
to treat yourself to one
of these cool fun sitars this xmas..

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Hess
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:15 PM

Thanks for the thoughts - lots of stuff for me to give a go over the weekend. Apparently these shoulders do come right of their own accord - may take a couple of years though, so I don't want to put everything on hold while I wait! Operation - ouch ouch ouch - pleased its worked out for him though.
Cheers Hess

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:31 PM

Hess,

Lap style might be the alternative you seek because of the relaxed position of the upper arms while playing. It is certainly worth some experimentation to see how well it may work given your condition.

Keep the faith

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: shepherdlass
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:51 PM

Check out Pierre Bensusan's stuff (recorded and tablature) - it really opens up the possibilities of DADGAD. The only thing is, if you're looking to emulate his harmonies (which go way beyond the obvious DADGAD sounds) you need big hands (I don't, so I just listen and wonder at the possibilities).

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:34 AM

A guitar-playing friend of mine had an op for his frozen shoulder 3 weeks ago and it's been successful - but I assume you've explored that one already Hess. Good luck with it whichever way you go

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Hess
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:03 AM

Cheers Reggie
The problem is in not beng able to crank the arm outwards/upwards (ouch/wont go). It's all a bit distressing really! Reckon I can do it with a capo ? - guess I've just got to experiment huh!
Thanks for the thoughts
Hess

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 09:02 PM

Hess,

The variant I use is EBEAbBE and it works as well. Besides the E chord, which is the chord your guitar is tuned to without fingering the neck in this open tuning, there are two simple fingered chords that make the A and B. The A chord in this tuning looks very much like the normal E chord in standard tuning, only without fingering the note on the second fret of the fourth string. The B chord in this tuning looks like a D7th in standard tuning except you move the two upper fingers in the shape up one string. I hope this is clear enough to visualize.

You might also try using your guitar as a lap guitar with this tuning. Laying it, back facing down, in your lap the way bluegrass Dobro pickers do. You'll have to purchase a slide bar of some sort. Lap style playing can be an easy alternative given it's simplicity. Of course, you can take this stylistic approach as far as you wish and many have.

They also make capos that work for lap style square neck Dobro guitars should you start to explore this alternative.

All the best

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Hess
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 07:17 PM

Thanks for that thought - sorry to be dumb, but on which fret does the capo go? and any suggestions for easy chord figurings would go down a treat.
Cheers
Hess

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 04:39 PM

You could try a DADGAD variant, but to play in E rather than D - EBEABE. It'd be the same as if you had DADGAD, but capoed up two frets (which would be the other way of doing it.) Simple chords and a good sound.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Hess
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 04:23 PM

OK - now, I need help (that what all from friends say!)and DADGAD (or similar)might be the way through - I've a "frozen" left shoulder, which means I'm unable to move that arm much. I'm pretty frustrated in playing instruments (and I was before as well!) and I need to revisit how I do lots of things at the moment. My left hand struggles to reach above the 7th fret, so I'm looking at capo'ng and playing ULTRA simple chords.I seem to choose to sing lots in aroung E
Suggestions please!
Hess

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: PennyBlack
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 02:44 PM

Gdd Grills nowt goes wrong in 'em

"He He - Turned out nice again"

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 01:18 PM

That's interesting. I just bought one of them George Formby grills...

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 12:42 PM

"Alternative tunings" aren't a new idea. George Formby used to have a range of ukeleles (or rather banjoleles), all tuned to different keys, so he could always use the one lot of chords.

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: reggie miles
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 10:25 PM

I've been foolin' around with a version of this for some time. (GDGBDG) I suppose if I moved that B up to C I'd have the equivalent of the DADGAD tuning but I've never seen the need as of yet. There seems to be plenty of room to poke around in the tuning I've been exploring.

I guess I believe, as moocowpoo has stated, that you're only as limited as your willingness to experiment. I don't feel trapped by the open tuning I've explored. It certainly doesn't serve me in every song and so I have a standard tuned guitar. I attribute my inability to my inexperience with my own exploration. I keep at it, and occasionally make a few new discoveries by noodling my way blindly along. I have no great knowledge of the structure of chords only what seems to sound appropriate to my ear. I'm certain that, given this rather lazy approach to my exploration I may never get very far with any of this.

I do see the need to try to vary song approaches so that they don't all sound the same and I try to do this a couple of different ways. First, I have several guitars tuned in alternate keys but using the same basic pattern in the keys of C, D, and G. Along with my standard tuned guitar (which is tuned a whole step low) and a capo, I have a variety of keys to play with. Second, if I have two or three songs that might have a similar approach, key or tempo, I try to space them far enough apart during the evening's set list so that there won't be too many songs that sound the same too close together. Variety is, after all, the spice of life. Like many others, I have keys that I favor or that seem to work best for my voice within a given melody pattern. Sometimes during my combinations with other folks I'm forced to play in only a narrow range due to the limitations of what I'm trying to accompany. Often, the limitations of one musical partner, coupled with my own, offer enough variety to satisfy most listeners.

It may be time to branch beyond the one open tuning I've been so doggedly hounding all these years. I think I'd like to try that Dobro lap style open G tuning that so many other friends of mine have been exploring.

What is it they say about idle hands?