Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3]


The pros and cons of DADGAD

Related threads:
Guitar tuning DAGDAD (76)
DADGAD (65)
Chord Req: Learning DADGAD (20)
Guitar: how do you tune a guitar in the key of C (5)
Steve Stills tuning (4)
Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D? (57)
I need help with drop D tuning (24)
sick of DADGAD (77)
Skip Jame's Tuning ??? (11)
Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that? (30)
Open-D: chords / tabs / tips / advice ?? (31)
hurt my guitar to tune it a step high? (74)
Open tunings help needed (19)
Tuning guitar down in standard tuning (40)
Found a good DADGAD book (31)
High Strung Guitars (Nashville Tuned) (27)
OPEN D TUNING (59)
Nurd Talk: Tricks in Open Tunings (19)
Open tuning [what is it] (20)
Tuning to a 5 tone scale (9)
Theory: Tuning Intervals, Guitar (11)
Tuning a Guitar --how?? (35)
Drop-D; wrong all these years? (32)
DADGAD_ what are the basics? (31)
Open D (6)
Need Chord Chart for Open C Tuning and.. (29)
Help Figuring out alternate tunings (9)
Help with 'Drop D' tuning? (52)
To Tune or Not to Tune (34)
DADGAD vs Vestapol (30)
There's more to tunings than DADGAD (33)
alternate tunings (6)
DADGAD tuning (13)


GUEST,Phil B 04 Sep 11 - 01:36 PM
The Sandman 04 Sep 11 - 02:09 PM
The Sandman 04 Sep 11 - 02:12 PM
Brian Peters 04 Sep 11 - 02:28 PM
Howard Jones 04 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM
The Sandman 04 Sep 11 - 02:47 PM
The Sandman 04 Sep 11 - 02:58 PM
Brian Peters 04 Sep 11 - 03:18 PM
The Sandman 04 Sep 11 - 04:21 PM
Jane of 'ull 04 Sep 11 - 06:28 PM
ollaimh 04 Sep 11 - 10:26 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 01:36 PM

1. The inabilty to modulate easily to different keys,WHICH IS ONE OF THE GREAT ADVANTAGES OF STANDARD TUNING.


Couldn't agree more. Standard tuning has evolved over along period and exists for the very sound reason that it allows a far greater range of possiblities than any of the others. I use it 80% of the time.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:09 PM

Martin Carthy appears to use cgcdgd,cgcdga,for tune playing
MARTIN states in his book that dadeae enabled him to play in two keys d and a, he then dropped the tuning a whole tone to suit his voice he goes on to say that later on he dropped the top d down to a and ... by using cgcdga, he could play in four of five keys c.g.f.d. and possibly a minor.
he also says he used dadgad for sailors life and although he liked the sound he found it confining and never felt comfortable using it as he could only play in the key of d.
of course this is only Martins opinion, but his comment about more flexibilty of keys in cgcgda while retaining the open key sound is very interesting.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:12 PM

of course cgda is a tenor banjo tuning, and for those people who are used to flatpicking irish tunes on a tenor banjo , those irish tunes can be transferred straight away.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:28 PM

"he used dadgad for sailors life and although he liked the sound he found it confining and never felt comfortable using it as he could only play in the key of d"

See my previous post about DADGAD in G and A positions.

I don't doubt that standard tuning is the most flexible, and I wouldn't use DADGAD if I were trying to play jazz. It's just that standard doesn't give me the sound I like, to accompany traditional songs and dance music.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM

I can think of very few British traditional players who used guitar. "Peerie" Willie Johnson from Shetland, of course, and I've a photo in an EFDSS magazine from the '60s of an Orkney trio comprising fiddle, accordion and slide guitar. The Norfolk melodeon player Percy Brown was sometimes accompanied on guitar by his son-in-law Fred Devo. No doubt there were others, but the guitar never found a place in traditional music to compare with fiddle, the free-reed family, flute and whistle, or even bagpipes.

It was the folk revival, influenced by American music, which saw the introduction of the guitar in large numbers into the folk clubs. There's no question that among folk revival musicians the guitar has a significant presence. However in the absence of any traditional British styles the British folk scene has developed its own, which makes considerable use of open tunings - of which DADGAD is just one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:47 PM

ok, Brian but dadgad still only gives YOU 3 keys, so it is limited harmonically compared to cgcgda [5 keys] or standard or drop d.

"I don't doubt that standard tuning is the most flexible, and I wouldn't use DADGAD if I were trying to play jazz. It's just that standard doesn't give me the sound I like, to accompany traditional songs and dance music"
"Well, it's held my interest for thirty years now - perhaps you should have stuck at it a bit longer. And what are "distinctively harmonic limitations"?
you liking it is not what is under discussion, what is under discussion is it harmonically limited?.
I have given you an answer to its limitations.
I like it too on occasions, but I do not like to use it exclusively, although as I stated before, Bensusan has explored it in depth and shown what its possibilites are with a lot of work.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:58 PM

here is what Steve Baughman has to say about orkney tuning
This tuning has nothing to do with the islands off the northern coast of Scotland. I have simply chosen Orkney as a shorthand way to refer to CGDGCD tuningwhose rise to prominence has been hampered solely by the fact that, unlike DADGAD, it is impossible to pronounce.

The Orkney tuning (CGDGCD) has become my favorite over the years. It is a wonderful tool for melodic (non-linear) playing, in which you avoid playing subsequent notes on the same string. This technique (Pierre Bensusan calls it "harp style,") allows for a very smooth and gentle delivery of the melody and avoids the staccato effect that marks many guitar arrangements of fiddle tunes.

The Orkney tuning is also a great tuning for session back-up. I like it better than DADGAD. You get one extra note's range in the first position and when you're in C, (which in Orkney is often,) you've got a fifth in easy reach at the fifth fret of the first string. This allows for a nice ringy sound. In DADGADyou'd have to stretch your pinkie to the 7th fret to get the equivalent effect.

Drawbacks are that the 6th string tuned down to a C note can sometimes become a bit spaghetti-like and hard to tune. I find, however, that using a heavy 6th string makes this problem quite manageable. Another possible drawback is that playing in D or A is best done with a capo at the 2nd fret. Some people prefer an, un-capoed sound. On the other hand, you may like the higher, ringy sound of the second fret D and A chords.

In all, it's a great tuning. In fact, my theory is that the only thing keeping CGDGCD from overtaking DADGADas the session player's tuning of choice is that its name has heretofore been impossible to pronounce. Accordingly, I hereby christen it "ORKNEY" to sharpen its competitive edge. Try it out and let me know what you think.
this idea of what he describes as melodic plying comes from a 5 string banjo player called Bill Keith who used other banjo tunings other than dgcd, including dgbd[similar to guitar tuning dgdgbd see below.Melodic Style Banjo Introduction

Melodic Style Banjo has been around since the 1950s and 1960s...introduced by Bill Keith and Bobby Thompson...brought to further popularity by the likes of Alan Munde, Bela Fleck, Butch Robins, Tony Trischka, Larry McNeely, Pat Cloud and Pete Wernick. (along with many others)
What is Melodic Style Banjo? Melodic Style Banjo has its origins in the adaptation of the 5-string banjo to playing note for note fiddle tunes...Bill Keith spearheaded this approach and even played this very same style within Bill Monroe's band. He adapted many fiddle tunes including: "Devil's Dream", "Sailor's Hornpipe" and even standards such as "Caravan". His facility with this style has been well respected by most every aspiring banjo player since the 1960s...and even today, Bill still travels most of the year teaching this style along with music theory at banjo workshops. His influence has been well established and is now considered an integral part of the evolution and legacy of the banjo.

Melodic style banjo is known by a few other names: Keith Style, Chromatic Style and Fiddle Tune Style...today, it doesn't seem to hold the same popularity it once did in the '70s. This is surprising considering this style offers another dimension to what can be accomplished with the 5-string banjo. The cascading beauty of melodic banjo cannot be emulated by any other approach...including Single-String Style (made popular and innovated by Don Reno), Scruggs Style (the bluegrass standard), Classical Banjo (known as parlor style), or Frailing (clawhammer and traditional Appalachian)...all of these approaches to the 5-string banjo resonate with their very own beauty...and deserve the highest regard within the history and development of the 5-string banjo. Notwithstanding, Melodic Banjo deserves its very own place within this legacy of banjo styles. Outside of the fact that this approach always seemed to lay in the shadows, while a few progressive exponents of the style have carried it forward, it may still be discovered as a mainstream approach in its own right. It has its very own uniqueness of which no other style can emulate...the flow of cascading notes falling down like a colorful waterfall over precipices of never-ending scales lays down the simple fact that Melodic Banjo is here to stay...whether in obscurity or not.

Now, as a complete banjoist, having some Melodic Banjo technique in your arsenal will add to your ability to create optimal lead or back-up for most any musical setting. Keep in mind, there is a time and place to apply the melodic style...many times you'll want to consider the origin of the tune you're playing. Your goal as a tasteful player is to contribute to the song; you should not haphazardly arrange nor play a passage for the sake of displaying technique. When putting together your first melodic passages, find ways to make it contributory to the song's message. Technique in itself can be fun to pursue...however, when it comes to the ultimate goal of contributing to a musical setting, whether a recording session or a performance, make your best effort to contribute to the message...no matter how simple or complex the final arrangement becomes, the main question you want to ask yourself is: Did I contribute or take away from this musical setting? Having Melodic Banjo Technique to tap into may just add a new dimension in your efforts to master your banjo.

Now, let's dissect this approach to 5-String Banjo called Melodic Banjo:
1. What classifies Melodic Banjo? Melodic Banjo can be easily differentiated by its unique sound...there's a cascading quality to it...it can sound almost like a harp or a harpsichord...some notes will continue to ring while other melody notes go floating by. This is caused by the consecutive notes being played, which classifies this style, are almost never played on the same string.
2. How is Melodic Banjo different than Scruggs Style? Melodic banjo offers note-for-note melody lines. Scruggs Style is based on chords and rolls with accents on the interspersed melody notes within chordal forms.
3. Melodic Banjo differs from Single String Style in the approach to the melody. In Single String approach, the melody is played in a linear fashion. For instance, three or four notes will be consecutively played on the same string. Whereas, in the Melodic approach, the melody will be played in a more vertical fashion. From note to note, the strings are played alternatively...one note per new string played. Very seldom do two consecutive notes occur on the same string...and on the rare occasion that they are played on the same string, the two notes would be connected by a slur through a hammer-on or a pull-off. This retains the floating effect that's characteristic of Melodic Style Banjo.

The best methodology for learning to play Melodic Banjo, is the scalar approach. First become familiar with the scales and patterns that constitute this style, and you'll have the skeletal framework necessary in arranging and executing melodies as a Melodic Banjo player.
Copyright ©2000-2011 Mystic West Media


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 03:18 PM

"you liking it is not what is under discussion, what is under discussion is it harmonically limited?.?"

What is under discussion is the question of "The pros and cons of DADGAD", which is what I addressed. I'm not sure that pasting five paragraphs on melodic banjo has advanced that discussion very much, Dick.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 04:21 PM

I think it does because dadgad or rather adgad is a tuning used occasionally on the 5 string banjo, and dgcd and dgbd and other open tunings are used on 5 string banjo, furthermore Steve Baughman is discussing a style of guitar playing in cgcgcd AKA Orkney [ a tuning closely related to dadgad]melodic playing which has its origins in 5 string[KEITH OR MELODIC PLAYING].
any person who has played banjo and guitar will see that the two stylescan become interchangeable, a melodic banjo style player can transfer that style to Dadgad, or any other open tuning such dgdgbd dgdgcd cgcgcd daf#ad, among the 5 paragraphs it explains the idea of not playing the tune on the same string, it also refers to BENSUSAN, and his harp like style in dadgad, as far as I understand the articles there is a link between melodic banjo playing, melodic guitar playing.
example 1.. What classifies Melodic Banjo? Melodic Banjo can be easily differentiated by its unique sound...there's a cascading quality to it...it can sound almost like a harp or a harpsichord...some notes will continue to ring while other melody notes go floating by. This is caused by the consecutive notes being played, which classifies this style, are almost never played on the same string.
example 2.The Orkney tuning (CGDGCD) has become my favorite over the years. It is a wonderful tool for melodic (non-linear) playing, in which you avoid playing subsequent notes on the same string. This technique (Pierre Bensusan calls it "harp style,") allows for a very smooth and gentle delivery of the melody and avoids the staccato effect that marks many guitar arrangements of fiddle tunes.
connection 3.Pierre Bensusan calls it "harp style,"Pierre Bensusan DOES THIS IN dadgad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 06:28 PM

Sounds good this tuning, will have to explore it a bit.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The pros and cons of DADGAD
From: ollaimh
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 10:26 PM

i use dadgad and standard tuning both. usually for different things.dadgad is difficult for sessuin backing--but then i usually play a mandolin, or bouzouki at a sessuin, however a friend of mine used to play dadgbd--two dropped ds for sessuin backing. you get regular chords in the middle four strings and two drones for d or g which reduces the capo needs--he rarely uses one. i almost never use a capo either.

with dadgbd you only have to tune up the high d to e and you get dropped d when wanted or tune the b down to a for dadgad. however he is a fantastic guitarist--he sounds great playing anything.he recorded a smithsonian folklore album in the sixties and toured with john lee hooker.

i used to also play several open c tunings and open d, both are great for certain songs. on a strong guitar those low c notes resonate like crazy. and yeah joni mitchell used many many tunings. she is a genius . she even played revolutionary dulcimer music--for the time


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 26 April 5:58 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.