BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 05:32 PM

Here's an extract from this site, on a passage about makingthe filk Deliverance - 'Summer of Deliverance' By Christopher Dickey

"I was supposed to know how to shoot a bow, one of the assistant directors asked me to shoot one of the trout they'd put in a little makeshift pond at the edge of the river. They needed a close-up miss and a close-up hit. I'd never shot a trout. But, hey, this was going to be like -- this was -- shooting fish in a barrel.

Just to get the feel of it, I took aim at one of the trout, steadied the shaft, aiming low to compensate for the refraction of light, and released. The arrow went right into it, just the way it was supposed to. Now the cameras rolled. And rolled. And rolled...and rolled. I could not hit another fish. We joked. We laughed a lot. I made excuses. The sun was going down and we were losing light. This whole little sideshow was turning into an embarrassment, then a humiliation, as people came over to see why we were taking so long. "I thought you knew how to do this?" said the assistant cameraman. Even fish in a barrel are hard to hit with an arrow. Anyone might have made an equal fool of himself.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 05:46 PM

I also vote for the carnival organ.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: Cluin
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 05:59 PM

Just goes to show you that Mudcatters can debate the crap out of anything.


Wasn't there a story here not too long ago about discharging a gun in an outhouse?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 12:43 PM

While there is no doubt that the "common meaning" now is just anything that's very easy, among the locals I grew up with the term "shooting fish in a barrel" nearly always implied a strong condemnation of "unsportsmanlike" conduct of some sort. Anything compared to "shooting fish in a barrel" was likely something it was understood that "you just don't do."

I suspect that that meaning has pretty much faded out of use - the modern generation seems to like everything as easy as possible...(?)
but it might be of help if someone really wants to look into origins of the term. Comparable, but less used, terms were "hunting chickens/duck/birds in a pen," "shooting pigs in the barnyard" and/or "fishing with dynamite."

The usual connotation of any of these terms was that only an "incompetent" would take pleasure from any such "contrived" situation. There apparently is no shortage of such "incompetents," since the major game law convictions in my area recently have been for things - all illegal here - like "herding" game to the "hunters(?)" using aircraft, 4WD, or ATV vehicles, using radio/cb/cellphone communications while hunting, and/or "shining" - using spotlights (or headlights) to blind the game at night. All much like "shooting fish in a barrel" - in the older sense as I learned it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 07:35 PM

You are right JiK - that's what it menat when I first heard it too..

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 07:40 PM

That's how I've always understood it - something supposedly so easy it's cheating and not sporting. Like shooting a sitting bird.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:09 PM

A friend of mine, as a wee lad, used to go hunting with his father on a pheasant ranch, or farm, or some such thing. The dog would point, and then my friend's job was to put his lollipop in his pocket, run out, kick the bird in the ass so it would fly, and then his dad would shoot it (the bird.)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 08:28 AM

I'm a Midwesterner, and have never heard of a connotation for this phrase that associates it with unsportsmanlike conduct. Only that it is something that is so easy, the outcome is guaranteed.

It isn't the least bit uncommon for euphemisms to not make literal sense. That is probably why we have a thing called figurative speech.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 09:10 AM

Duck, McGrath!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 09:21 AM

Only that it is something that is so easy, the outcome is guaranteed.

I'd have thought that, in the context of sport, that in itself would be likely to mean unsportsmanlike. Surely the idea of overcoming some kind of difficulty is central to the whole notion of sport?

Obviously it's figurative laguagen, but it seems the wrong way round. It's a bit as if people were using "walking a tightrope" as a figurative way of saying how easy it was to do something, or "walking in a straight line" as a way of saying how hard it was.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 07:04 PM

Such a thing IS a very 'English' thing in the English sense of humour - also very Australia too. It's also known as irony - and only those in on the joke know it to be funny.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:18 AM

oh.





You mean, like, everything McGrath wrote above is, like, really, really funny?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 08:48 AM

Now you're with the program, Citizen!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 09:41 AM

Well, dang, that's exciting! Now I'll have to go back and re-read all of his posts on mudcat. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 12:27 PM

FOR FUCKS SAKE

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST,Norton1
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:13 AM

Never shot a fish IN a barrel but shot a pistol into a metal bucket once. It was a little .25 caliber automatic pistol and I wanted to see how the hollow point bullets expaded. Bullet expanded nicely and then went through the bottom of the bucket. Dang - it was a real nice older heavy metal bucket. I welded the hole up - but it looks like a wart on the bottom now!

Had there been a fish in it the fish would have died. :-)

We used to shoot carp out at Lake Lowell when I was a kid. 22s and bows and arrows both. It was pretty easy once you got the hang of the water refraction.

Hee hee hah hah - and yes - Mudcatters can debate anything - :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:20 AM

Ha! And they used to tell us to avoid shooting at the water, especially with low-velocity bullets like .22s. Said the danger of ricochet was higher with those.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:36 AM

I, for one, won't accept Norton1's mere conclusion as to hypothetical fish vitality. Upon inspection, it amounts to no more than conjecture and surmise. There were no controls whatsoever, and the "data" (for want of a better word) is entirely inadequate for statistcal analysis. If we are going to maintain appropriate standards in this peer review process, I submit to you that further research is obligatory. What we have achieved is simply inadequate if mudcat intends to maintain its respect as a deliberative body.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST,Norton1
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 04:14 PM

Wellll Cluin - at a bit of TOO much of an angle they do ricochet. Part of getting the hang of it was how much angle you could get away with.

Heric - entirely correct - next time I'm out farting around I'll try again and post the statistical portion for review - and I was most likely out of controls, or is that out of control??

Hmmm - I'll try to do better in the future :-)

[i]hanging head and walking away with a shucky darns sort of look[/i]

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 07:36 PM

Looks like 'GUEST' doesn't really get what the whole point of the Mudcat BS section is all about - probably not much of a muso either...

Obviously not spent much time in the 'Green Room'# during gigs...

Now back to the serious stuff - Carry On, Mudcatters!

(and they DO carry on....)


# The Green Room is the Traditional Theatre term for the place where the cast of a show hang out before, during and after a show, when they are not actually on stage...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 08:17 PM

Thank you for that, Norton1. Data on fish-brain splatter patterns may suffice for our purposes.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Shooting fish in a barrel'??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 08:29 PM

Maybe someone could get a research grant to look into all this, with experiments with differerent calibre guns and different size barrels and different sorts of fish.