BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean

Subject: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 05:56 PM

Nerd, had a chance to hear Howard Dean live and in person and I realize that I was basing my views on him from what the media would allow me to see.

I won't make that mistake again.

Dean was articulate, witty, sensible, down to earth, accessible to people, unpretentious and fully appraised of the political scene today. On top of that, in person, he was magnetic. His answers to questions were concise, pertinent, respectful and in short I believe him to be a real man of the people.

i can't believe that I was so wrong about him. But now I really understand how the reactionary media can distort a candidate by editing, reframing the questions, pushing a reactionary Bush-oriented agenda, and how as Democrats we have to stop chewing each other up.

Kerry had his moments live as well. But Dean has fostered a new hope in me for possible solutions to this dismal scene by an immoral president. Dean is an honorable man to be reckoned with.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:01 PM

Has anyone heard from Nerd? I messaged him a few days back asking how he's doing ('cause I hadn't seen any posts from him for quite a while). No answer yet.

Frank: That is a generous and gutsy post. I admire courage in people.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:06 PM

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:09 PM

Looks like the jackass MG has reported in, braying as usual.

Good post, Frank.

Nerd is an academic--I wonder if he has simply been away from his computer during the break? At my university, unless faculty are teaching in the short Winter Term, they aren't expected back until Jan. 18.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:13 PM

Thank, SRS. I was a bit worried about him, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:15 PM

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH


"Oh Dean! Dean!".....................Jerry Lewis c. 1951

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:16 PM

SRS, let the record show that you were the first name caller on this thread.

Get out before I make an issue out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:21 PM

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST,Nerd, sans cookie
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:23 PM

Hi Everyone... I have been away from my computer, and didn't want to clutter up this one with a cookie as it's my host's. Since I'm not logged in, I can't see or respond to Brucie's PM, but I'm checking in every few days. I should be back on line on my own machine in less than a week.

Frank, I'm glad you got a chance to see Dean in person. That was also what did it for me; I got a chance to see him several times early on, and my wife is a Vermonter and knew him to be a smart, sensible governor. So we knew the media distortion for what it was. My wife is so mad she will not watch mainstream news shows at all anymore!

During the campaign Kerry also grew on me, and I thought he would have made a fine President, so both of us changed our opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:34 PM

I still don't understand what happened to Howard Dean, one moment he's flavour of the month, the next he's sunk without trace. Looking westward, from where I sit I thought he'd have done better than John Kerry. Just my opinion.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:44 PM

Yeah, Frank, Dean go the big ol' hatchet job...

He was the only Dem who had a chance to beat Bush soundly enough to overcome the Diebopld advantage that Bush had...

Too bad...

Dean was and is my man...

I hope he wrestles the DNC chairmanship away from the Demopubs...

Bobert (Green for Dean...)

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:55 PM

The media flayed him, apparently with a gross distortion of that scream, and blew it up into some kind of animal grotesquery. It completely chilled his momentum.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:58 PM

Nerd's OK, and that's a good thing. Thanks for posting, buddy.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 08:25 PM

Isn't it strange that the "democratic" left are always converted *after* the election.

One would think that Frank would have listened to people like Bobert and GUEST and had a look at Dean before wasting his vote on Kerry.

Even had Kerry won, he would not have carried out a progressive program..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 08:33 PM

Good to see Nerd check in. I've noticed that the academic lists are quite chatty now that folks are getting back to campus but haven't started teaching yet.

Martin, I assumed that this cry of yours was onomatopoeia in action. The facts are clear that Dean's shout was misrepresented by the specialized microphone he was using. If you choose to hijack another thread and start calling people nasty names, that is your choice.
SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 08:42 PM

There is that hindsight thing, akenaton.

Also that enough of the true democratic left in this country that could have swung the election to Kerry & the Republicrats saw this election as rigged on both sides, and decided to sit out the last election.

I don't just fault the media for the demise of Dean. I blame the party leadership, especially Kerry's Democratic Leadership Council for doing a whole lot of behind the scenes backstabbing of Dean, and convincing the media he wasn't electable.

AND YES, I BLAME the rank and file of the party more than anyone else in this last election, for selling out to the militarists, rolling over, and playing dead cowards every step of the way.

This last campaign was the most stultifyingly unimaginative "by the playbook" campaign I've ever seen in my life.

The party is just plain too corrupt to be supported, and the very best that can be said of the Kerry campaign is it didn't rock a single status quo boat in the Democratic OR Republican party.

The worst that can be said about the Democrats this time around is that they were very effective in destroying any vestiges of non-partisan, progressive action in this country by breaking Nader's back.

I hope the Democrats are so depressed they collectively jump off the Bay Bridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 10:19 PM

Ditto...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: LadyJean
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 11:09 PM

I had a chance to hear Dr. Dean speak in October 03. He is a fine speaker, but Dr. Dean was never a trial lawyer.
Like actors, trial lawyers learn to project their voices to the back of the room. I know because I come from a long line of them. (The tendency skipped me. But my sister has tried cases.) Doctors don't need to make themselves heard as a rule. Dean doesn't project, he shouts.
At his famous "Scream" speech, he was competing with a room full of screaming enthusiasts. The media blocked out the background noise, and made him look like a lunatic.
The campaign could have used that, and I wish they had.
It was moved, seconded and passed that John Kerry was electable, and the other candidates weren't. So, the Democrats went with Kerry, who wasn't quite as electable as they thought.

Mr Gibson, everyone knows you can use your shift key. You don't have to use it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 01:19 PM

The other thing that puzzles me about US politics is; why is Liberal such a dirty word? There must be a Funk and Wagnell definition of the word liberal that never made it to the OED.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 03:50 PM

It isn't a dirty word. But that doesn't keep repubicans like Karl Rove from trying to turn it into one. Scares off potential party members that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 03:57 PM

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH


EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH


EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 04:30 PM

"Liberal" was turned into a swear word by writers like AnnCoulter whop foams at the mouth and writes books about what "liberals" think and do which is high treason to the Great United States, or the Rodina, or something. This is a common black public relations technique, PR by redefining of terminology, which has the interesting side effect of ruining the basics agreement that enables communication on order to gain short term advantage. It is thus not really an ethical tactic.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 05:52 PM

Ann Coulter must be Ayn Rand reincarnated, or something like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 05:59 PM

Ann Coulter is a complete and total cunt.

She should call herself Ann Cunter.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 06:02 PM

They are all propagandists. No one will use those plain terms, just like they won't call politicians who lie liars. It isn't polite.

Then, when someone speaks truths, like Nader, they shoot the messenger, or claim he is doing the same propagandizing that they do.

What the Democrats and Republicans are engaging in has been in the realms of propaganda, and far beyond black PR, for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 06:11 PM

LH you do Ayn Rand a real disservice with that comparison. She actually had things in her head called 'ideas'.

I too thought the press as a whole had a feeding frenzy at his expense, but his position against the war cost him the election. I have heard him after the election and also thought he came off as intelligent and able. I also admire the relationship he has with his wife, and I hope it survived the campaign.

The "I Have A Scream" incident didn't mean anything to me. I noticed that while he was on his 'apparent' rant he was naming off a long string of primaries with no list in front of him. Quite impressive.

"Liberal" will come back from the dustheap. The aspersions cast against it are by polemicists such as Limbaugh and Coulter, blowhards of the moment, but no real depth, (although Limbaugh has some capacity). It should be noted that there was an era when "Conservative" received the same abuse for the same reason. Partisanship remains what it always was, the only thing that's changed is the position of the pendulum.

By the way, I don't know how you can inspire laughter with just an incoherent shout, but Martin's posts made me roll on the floor every time. The man's got a gift.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 06:14 PM

Robo

I think you meant that positively.

Thanks and:



EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 06:50 PM

Yeah, it always makes me laugh too. It's very cathartic. We would all love to just let go and scream like that sometimes...

In fact, I think I will. Right now.

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


Ummm, boy. That felt good.

What???

The dog is looking at me kinda weird now.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 11:45 PM

Amazing. MG and I agree on one thing. Ann Coulter.

Little Hawk, your dog is dancing on your leg. That must'a been some howl.

;->

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 02:32 AM

ROFLMAO

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 05:13 AM

I guess it's an American thing, but so far I haven't chuckled or even smiled.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 11:18 AM

Frank:

A manly thing, to find yourself wrong and say so with equanimity.

I notice the sardonic and hate-filled Martin Gibson, with his clever little string of capital letters, has much less regard for truth.

I am not surprised. He is given to lies.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Megan L
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 11:35 AM

Giok dinny laugh at the amercans laddie the puir wee things canny help it (tfic) :)

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 11:41 AM

Amos,

I fear you belittle MG's posts in this thread.
So far the majority of his posts here have been consistent. Pretty pointless, and annoying, but consistent.

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: DougR
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 01:47 PM

I sincerely hope you Dean lovers will do everything in your power to see that Dean gets the Democratic nomination in 2008. And I hope you are successful.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 03:48 PM

DOWN! Down, boy! Get off! No! I didn't meant that way...!

Oh, yuck. That is just gross.




Thanks a bunch there, Stilly. Wait till you see your next Christmas present.



My guess is, the Democrats will be able to run just about anyone in 2008 and win, Doug. But there's no way they'll pick anyone but another lukewarm dupe of the $ySStem, like Kerry was. Let's wait and see if I am right.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 04:53 PM

Thank you, Nigel

My posts here and everywhere are quite consistent. Some may find them pointless, others annoying.

If so, I have succeeded.

EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 06:55 PM

Frank, thank you for your post. I worked for the Dean campaign since June '03 and continue to support his Democracy for America. From the first time I read his speeches online, I could see he was a man of ethics and vision.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 08:42 PM

I think that Dean is being written off. In fact, he is criss-crossing the country and picking up followers much in the way that he did through the internet.

The Democratic Party is in shambles now. They are thinking of Roemer to head the DNC which is a bad move. He represents a "Republicrat" point-of-view. Harry Reid is not much better.

Dean has what it takes to mobilize a base of Democratic supporters. He speaks with intelligence and clarity but will not roll over to the Repub side.

He may or may not run for president but I think he will be highly influential amoung the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" in the next few years.

On thing is certain. Republicans may feel confident now that they own the government but they did not get a mandate. There are many of the people in the so-called Red States that did not support Bush and there are chinks in the armour amoung Republicans in Congress over gutting Social Security and the Iraq debacle not to mention the soaring deficit which is a very un-conservative event. Bush's assault on victims rights in the courts is another land mine for them.

Anyway, thanks for responding, Nerd and your information is always valuable.
You were right about Dean. Apologies for dissing him without really having heard him live.

Unfortunately, Kerry bailed on the Ohio recount which hurt him amoung his supporters, however, I still believe him a man of integrity and much more a brave and honest soul then Bush. Dean is a healer. The Party needs him now.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 09:29 PM

Look for a meeting near you of Democracy for America, usually the first Wednesday of each month. You can find the meetings at http://dfa.meetup.com.

Here is part of Gov. Dean's latest letter:
We are engaged in another kind of rebuilding here at home -- rebuilding our
party, our democracy and our sense of community. At stake in the coming
year is nothing less than what kind of society we will be. And to shape
America we have to start locally.

Join us at 7 PM tonight [that was Jan 5th] in your community for the Democracy for America
Meetup:

http://dfa.meetup.com

This month your local group will present a special DVD from Professor George Lakoff, who is fast becoming one of the most
influential thinkers in the progressive movement.

His work has helped us understand how conservatives use language to reinforce their positions. Take, for example, when
corporate elites set their sites on repealing the estate tax, which only affects a few thousand people with multimillion-dollar estates.
They coined the phrase "death tax" in order to bamboozle ordinary non-millionaires into supporting the repeal.

Conservative politicians and Fox News anchors simply stopped calling it the estate tax and adopted the new phrase. Soon
Democrats were calling it the "death tax", too -- even as they tried to explain why it should stay on the books (so that massive
wealth doesn't become permanently concentrated in the hands of just a few).

In order to rebuild our party and communicate our values, we have to understand how the other side works and avoid this kind of
trap. [The January meetup] DVD will spark a discussion at your Meetup -- and the lessons learned will be crucial to our success. Please join us...

http://dfa.meetup.com

Providing disaster relief abroad and rebuilding community at home are complex, long-term projects. But we all have a
responsibility to one another -- and they can only happen with your active engagement.

Thank you.

Governor Howard Dean, M.D.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 09:32 PM

It is very rare in that corrupt 2-party joke of a $ySStem in the USA that anyone gets a true mandate. It's phony baloney to say they do. Propaganda. Self-serving tripe.

If Dean is a genuinely independent thinker with new and progressive ideas, I would be amazed if the Democrats picked him to run next time. Astounded. Gobsmacked. Flabbergasted. Such people don't run...and if they do, they die young.

Those 2 parties both serve the Big Money $ySStem, the military-industrial complex, and whoever pays for their phony campaigns. They are Heckyl and Jeckyl, Tweedledum and Tweedledee, Cisco and Pancho, Mutt and Jeff. They are a travesty.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 01:36 AM

"EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH"

Rawhide?

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 01:09 PM

Go get 'em LH.
He's right bonny when he's angry...

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 01:57 PM

footnote to some of the posts above, re: Ann Coulter..

MSNBC anchor Keith Olberman ("Countdown")does a weekly bit where he is asked questions about the weeks news, and if he answers a majority, he wins a 'prize'...this week, he did, and the prize was an Ann Coulter doll, all neatly boxed.

He smiled evilly and proceeded to aggressively smash the box to smitheerens over the desk until plastic body parts began trickle out the ends. So far, no one has offered him a Bill O'Reilley doll, as they'd probably have to censor the program.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 04:17 PM

As a conservative I want to through my full support for Howard Dean- either as head of the democratic party or for president in 2008.   With the possible exceptions of Ossama Bin Laden, Michael Moore, or Jesse Jackson- I can't think of a better choice.   (I have actually begin to like Al Sharpton lately- all those interviews on O'reilly are getting to me- at least he has the courage to go on as opposed to Kerry or Hillary)

Go Howard Go!!!   You da man.

PS:   A note about Ann Coulter and Keith Oberman.   Keith Oberman does a .3 rating.   O'reilly in the same slot does a 2.2   For those of you lottery purchases out there (bad at math) more than 7 times the number of people watch O'reilly than watch Oberman.   In fact, more people watch the O'reilly rerun at 3 AM than watch Oberman.

Every book by Ann Coulter is a best seller and meticulously researched and referenced.   The biggest difference between her and mudcatters is that her information is based on facts and documented.   This compared with the liberal fantasy's presened in this forum.

You go girl!   Can't wait to get my birthday present of "How to Talk to a Liberal- if you really must"   It should be very helpful in this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 04:22 PM

It's time to reframe the Dean scream. It was an ouburst of honest passion and committment. It can be used as a rallying cry now in the face of the capitulating rollover "Republicrats" and the zombies that control the White House and Senate who are devoid of any real emotion save a pseudo-blustering. I'll take Dean's scream over Bush's cowardly smirk any day. As far as Bush's ineptitude, ignorant bungling and political dirty tricks, I have to admit "Mission Accomplished".

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 05:01 PM

Ann Coulter is a woman with all the charm of an industrial-sized flaming red dildo...and about that much feminine allure. She woulda looked real butch on the arm of Al Capone, that one.

Anyone can easily assemble a bunch of facts that, in isolation, will appear to give support to any ludicrous position whatsoever. Hitler did. Joe McCarthy did. Facts are like bullets, you just pick the specific calibre of facts you want, ignore the rest, load, aim, and pull the trigger. And then, someone dies. Quite often, someone who was innocent.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 09:07 PM

No one is going to frame the scream for you, Frank but you can think that if it helps your irritable bowel syndrome.


"EEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH"

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: GUEST,Larryzfulluvit
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 09:19 PM

Actually, LarryK is dead wrong. Anne Coulter is completely full of shit and her work is NOT based on facts. She has been debunked more thoroughly and consistently than almost any other pundit. She called Christianity "The religion that toppled the Roman Empire," forgetting that it was in fact pagans who sacked the Christian Roman Empire, which was itself Christian. She lies about her age, as Al Franken proved. She told everyone that the New York Times looked down on Nascar-loving real Americans because they NEVER MENTIONED Dale Earnhardt's death--except that it was on the front page. She lies, basically, about everything.

But then, so does LarryK

Subject: RE: BS: Nerd, I was wrong about Dean
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 09:25 PM

Guest, LarryK is a voice of reason here.

You, as you say, are full of it. Loose fecal matter.