BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror

Subject: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 06:25 PM

Form the paper that today spent 3 pages telling us what a racist pig Ron Atkinson, comes this delightful artice by Bill Burrows- a vile piece of pondlife if ever there was one.




'T HE people of the Yorkshire Dales have recently taken a decision to prevent the rest of us moving into a new house in their part of the world.

But then they are from Yorkshire.

They like to refer to it as "God's county". What a shame! He spent so much on the set and then found out he had nothing left to spend on the cast.

All new houses and barn conversions in the National Park are to be made available for sale at "affordable prices" to local people. And no one else.

No, not you. Not your family. Nobody else. Especially not a Mancunian such as myself.

These homes are for plain-talking, straightforward, a spade-is-a-spade Yorkshire types.

Or, as the rest of the country regards them, buffoons with no manners whatsoever.

This is all about regionalism, racism's snotty little brother.

"At the moment, most house building in the Yorkshire Dales National Park is open market," Peter Watson, the head of planning for the park authority, has declared. That means "anyone can buy them".

Hold the front page. "Free democratic society in you can live wherever you want" shocker.

Hang on, there is a (cough) "brain drain" of young Yorkshire Dales folk to the surrounding towns and cities - you know who I mean, you see them standing on street corners, pointing at planes.

As the late, great Les Dawson once observed, "Yorkshire is like Lancashire but without the O-levels."

While we're at it, let's disregard the idea that the locals are even remotely aware that, without this influx of cash from outsiders, they would be reduced to selling their organs on the net.

That's the lung and kidney variety - not the wood-effect versions made by Hammond.'

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Piers
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 06:36 PM

'This is all about regionalism, racism's snotty little brother.' Yeah, nothing to do with people not being able to afford homes near where they work and want to live because second-home/buy-to-let buyers have priced them out - as if. Rent is robbery, profit is plunder!

Piers

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: jacqui.c
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 06:51 PM

Unfortunately this is something that happens in any part of the country that is considered to be attractive. I applaud the idea of restricting these homes to local people and wish that other areas would follow the lead.

Always did think that Mirror was a tacky little rag anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: MudGuard
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 06:59 PM

Mr. Bean (R. Atkinson) does strange things to his teddy - but calling him a racist for that seems a bit harsh ...

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 07:12 PM

The Mirror, lets be serious, its a rag, not worth the paper its printed on. Think of it this way? Do you want the type of people who read that rag moving to Yorkshire? If not then let them print what they like about the shire then there following will give Yorkshire such a wide birth that Yorkshire will become just that little bit closer to heaven!

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:07 PM

It's the rant of a Southerner pissed off that he can't sell his two room flat for enough cash to buy the place of his dreams in the beautiful North, or use the cash he's fiddled to buy his holiday cottage.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:29 PM

Or it could be the rant of a southener who also has been outpriced of his own locality. But doesn't have the narrow mindedness associated with the North to sort his problems out for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 09:05 PM

This is a serious problem in the West of Scotland, where our beautiful countryside is being devoured by developers.
The houses they build are so expensive, that the sons and daughters of local familiues cant afdford to buy them, but there are hordes of retired people ,(mostly from England), who have sold a house in the south, have a big pension and want to settle here

The result is a dormatory village for over 70s, stretching inadequate health services to the limit.
Another major problem is environmental pollution.   As development is usually "ribbon"....along the shore lines of the lochs, proper sewage treatment is impossible.
The local authority relies on "septic tanks" to attempt to cut down the pollution ,but this is useless, due to the use of houshold chemicals, and chlorinated mains water.

Im afraid the problem stems from our own greed, when Thatcher brought in the "Right to buy" scheme, we swallowed the bait hook line and sinker. Overnight, we became a nation of propery owning Capitalists.

Houses, which should mean shelter for all, had become a commodity and we all started climbing the ladder.

Personally I am involved locally in a campaign to stop all mass housing development. The local people are the big losers in the development game, and the big winners are the landowners and development companies.

By concentrating protest on environmental problems caused by housing development, the left can strike against Capital...and get a result.

Protest on environmental damage, allied to the very effective animal rights issue should be a model for left strategy in the years ahead ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 09:36 PM

but there are hordes of retired people ,(mostly from England), who have sold a house in the south, have a big pension and want to settle here

Oh puh-leeeeze. Like no one in Scotland/Yorkshire has ever moved south? I think you'll find the migration figures show that traffic is far heavier downwards. You are facing what the south has had to deal with for decades. Welcome to the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:43 AM

I wouldn't wipe my arse on the Daily Mirror.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:47 AM

Yporjkshiree is ther best place in the wioolrd , and evertty wrre eslesle is rubbish.

john

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 05:54 AM

"Oh puh-leeeeze. Like no one in Scotland/Yorkshire has ever moved south? I think you'll find the migration figures show that traffic is far heavier downwards. You are facing what the south has had to deal with for decades. Welcome to the real world"

Usually they come south because there is not enough work at home, and they may as well pay exorbitant rents to English landlords in England, as to pay them to English landlords in Scotland. Either that or they come down to help you run your country!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:13 AM

Eric - neither would I, the ink comes off!!

If I wanted to move back to the village I was born in, I'd have to wait on the council housing list for 4 years (low priority) or win the lottery. My mother's birthplace, grandfathers' farmhouse (just the house, not the 150 acres that were attached), no central heating, no proper bathroom (hot and cold taps over a moveable tub, emptied by bailing it out into the sink), 30 years ago was sold for £116,000 and would probably go for £750,000 now. If I could afford it, I would have to prove I had the right to live in the village (which luckily I can, aunt & cousins still there, document proof we've been there since 1814), but I'd still have to take my chances with the rest on the waiting list for housing.

I can see the logic in restricting sales, it means you get a full time, multi-aged community, with a sense of continuity. A village infrastructure evolves and facilities improve. In London, we are noticing young families move out to better conditions, leaving elderly people behind. Their social circle is, perforce, shrinking. Small local shops and markets are being forced out by huge supermarket chains and 'out of centre' shopping parks, so they have diffuculty in getting basic supplies. The more local amenities disappear, the more people move away to better conditions elsewhere. Soon we are left with an area with no amenities and a migratory population who are only there a part of the time.

Trouble is, the most logical answer to a problem is usually the one that gets you labelled a racist.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:17 AM

Are you Local?


New Road , Arrrggggh!!!
No New Road!



This is a local place, for local people, theres nothing for you here!

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 07:35 AM

My remarks regarding English pushing North were not intented to be racist,but merely a statement of fact a it applies to or area.

As a local builder, I am in contact with these people daily and am alwatys amused by their contention that they "love Scotland and the countryside so much" while busily erecting fences and paving over any weed or plant that dares to raise its head.
This condition applies to both the English and the Scots who arrive here from a midde class suburban environment.
Most show no interest in trying to understand country ways and have little empathy with the cycle of nature.

They remind me of the "hordes" who relocate to Spain, a country with a wonderful culture of music and dance.
They immediately gather in a "Little Britain" enclave, organise "Country" and karioke nights, then wonder why they are despised by the Spanish...........Ole!!   Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 08:55 AM

Either that or they come down to help you run your country!

ROTFLMAO. Sitting in a doorway under a blanket isn't really helping anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST,jacqui.c
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:30 PM

I was a Londoner - I know from experience that there are a lot of people from other parts of the country who come down South and find work - I've worked with quite a number of them. Those sitting under a blanket in a doorway are a minority.

It still doesn't negate the fact that housing in many parts of the country is being priced out of the abilities of first time local buyers. It would appear that the Mirror is doing their usual slime story, they don't seem to be able to appreciate any good reason for this sort of move. Just shows how ignorant and ill informed their people are.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:42 PM

The only difference between the Mirror and a kids comic, is that the comic is aimed at people with a higher IQ.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: gnomad
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:32 PM

I'm unsure if this development will cure the problem, only time will tell.

As for the Mirror - tomorrows chip wrappers. Yorkshire has been around a lot longer, and will outlast the Mirror. It is also much nicer, though that isn't difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: CharleyR
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 11:55 AM

Obviously written by someone without the slightest idea about the issue... but then that's hardly surprising considering which publication the article comes from.

It seems reasonable to me to try and help people who grew up in an area and have family and a job there to be able to stay there if they want. In the area where I come from (in the Peak District) it seems that the people who do (try to) stay in the village they live in are the ones who can least afford it. The ones who leave are those that move away to go to university and the ones that stay are the ones who work in the village shop or one of the pubs or whatever. Not that any of these people will be able to afford a house any more in the place they grew up in, and there is generally not much rented accommodation in villages. Seems a bit harsh for people of any circumstances who want to continue living in the area they grew up in to have to move miles away from their family and find new jobs and friends in a city somewhere because they have been crowded out by people who can live anywhere they choose.

The only reason the Yorkshire Dales are resorting to schemes like this is because the whole unaffordable housing situation has got so ridiculous already.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: MudGuard
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:03 PM

May I repeat my (maybe stupid) question: in which way is Mr. Bean (Mr. Atkinson) involved?

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:13 PM

It isn't just the Yorkshire Dales doing it, they just attracted the publicity. As I posted above, if I wanted to move into my mothers' home village, I'd have to prove I was eligible to live there. The village is estated owned, and the 'Lord of the Manor' made this rule about 20 years ago. I'm lucky, my aunt still lives there and I've got about 275 yrs worth of documented proof that my family have lived on his estate. I just don't have the £300,000 I would need to buy even the smallest house.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:22 PM

Well, there's room for one more in Yorkshire 'cos I left for the South some years ago. Anyway, Bill Burrows is probably a closet Lancastrian who never got over his lot being beaten in the wars of the roses.....we've still got some unused blades for the gibbet in Halifax museum and he sounds like an ideal candidate for the chop!

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 03:17 PM

Ake - A little fairness, please! Over 70's don't create "dormitory villages". Over 70's generally live where they buy, & are much more likely to contibute to the local community than the real dormitory types, or the holiday home owners.

The 'dormitory' is created by those who buy the picturesque, but live, or work, the week in the big town (often, but not always, London) where salary is better. Culpable, certainly, but perhaps not criminal. The holiday homes are the ones that really ought to be taxed out of existence. They are the ones who live less than 6 weeks of the year in their "cheap" or "investment" second homes & blight places like the Lake District & the West Country, destroying communities by absenteeism.

On the other hand, who sold them all these properties in the first place? Surely it wasn't the local owners who made a profit by selling for the best price? Noooooo! Human nature, I'm afraid. :-/

I can see both sides of this argument. I'm London born & bred, I'm not a stockbroker-type, I would ultimately like to get away from the endless concrete, & I hope I would be a part of the community I'd like to move into. Where does this discriminatory rule leave me? The BBC website had an interesting "Have your say" thread on this topic"...

I don't think this is the right way to handle the problem. Tax hell out of the second home & place the burden of proof of residence (utility bills, frex) on the homeowner is perhaps the best option.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: el_punkoid_nouveau
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 03:38 PM

Yorkshire anyday. The Mirror has nothing to equal it (although it did have Giles when he was alive and working).

We have the same problem in our little ex mining village in NW Leics. The imposition of one housing estate where the pit head used to be (until Maggie decided that the UK didn't need manual workers, and Hezza defended the miners before breakfast, dinner, tea, supper and his bed time snack - well they do say attack is the best form of defence!) increased the village by 25%. Who bought all these luxurious homes? Brummies. Some have settled in, and become part of the village community, while others either want to turn it into little Birmingham or bugger off back down the M42 after a couple of years, and take the massive profit with them.

Which is all probably very hypocritical, since our house was three two-up-two-down cottages put together in the eighties. But we couldn't afford to buy it now.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 03:40 PM

I suppose that's one of the few plus points about living somewhere that's a bit of a dump. So far there have been no millionaires looking for a holiday cottage down our street.

Mind you if you're a millionaire and you want a little pied a terre nestled between the the toxic waste dump and the M1. Look no further......

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 07:22 PM

Raedwulf...As you well know, a fairer man never walked than auld Ake!

And in fairness ,my vocabulary let me down. "Dormitory village " being the wrong expression.

Almost all of the new houses built here are taken by retired people, many of them in poor health.
You say that these people contribute to a community.   "In what way"?

They drive to the nearest large town to shop, ignoring the local shop,except to get the Financial Times!
They are forever blocking up the doctors surgery,getting their pacemakers de-coked or being fitted with various bags an balloons to keep their boots dry.
They also consume huge quantities of prescription drugs....The doctor here dispenses in carrier bags from Asda...These drugs find their way through the drainage system and the septic tanks into our beautful Loch Fyne,where they are making all the fish and anyone who eats them sterile.

Some other arsehole tried to say that more people moved South than North , but those who move South are generally economic migrantes looking for work and somewhere they can afford to buy a house,while we end up with all the wrinklies.

I agree with you about the greed aspect, as I said before the"Right to buy" scheme was a disaster.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:19 AM

I moved from North Yorkshire where I grew up because I couldn't afford to get a house/flat or anything else there. I'm now in a village near to Holmfirth where I am sure my kids won't be able to afford to live either as this has become too popular since we moved here (we both work locally).

Whilst people are still prepared to pay silly money for houses this will carry on and on. Buy a dump to live in during the week and a hideaway for two days at the weekend in the country (so no-one else can live there).

And the Right to Buy legislation has decreased the social housing stock to such an extent that people who need these cannot get them unless they have an astronomoical number of points. letting first time buyers have social housing shares isn't going to help these people either.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: GUEST,Dave Roberts
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 01:36 PM

But isn't this really about the awful decline in journalistic standards, as evidenced by the almost unbelievably prejudiced writing in the article in the Daily Mirror?
And I'm not being naive. Newspapers these days are not above deliberate provocation of this kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:02 PM

Ake - I said "much more likely to contribute to the local community"!!! Not that they did. I don't live in ALL of the afflicted communities (or even some of them), so I'm not in a position to be making the blanket statements that you are ("auld Ake", eh? So when are *you* due a de-coke then? Or perhaps it ought to be a de-bile, mate! ;-) ).

Your latest remarks are acidly amusing, but (serious question) can you show how true they are? Is it just your impression (caused by 'whatever'), or do you have hard evidence to back them up? They seem more than a little over the top to me, given that older people are living longer & in better health these days. Especially those that can afford to buy overpriced retirement homes in pretty, rural, areas!

Though I agree that ribbon development is something that needs to be closely controlled (to the point of stiflingly so, preferably!).

And, on a slightly different tack, if you're supporting this "locals only" rule, it would bar me from moving to your district. Is that what you are after? (I'm expecting a loud "Yes", of course! ;-) But you know what I'm getting at...)

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:20 PM

Just a thought, but when the locals who buy these "affordable" house decide to sell (at a nice big profit no doubt)who will buy them except the same people who are buying up the property now for weekend retreats, buy to let etc etc. Maybe, just maybe, council owned rented accommodation is the answer to the housing shortage in these areas, I mean who would want to rent a council house as a second home :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:47 PM

Raedwulf, Ake did say Scottish and English middle class if you read his post, and I'm with him on this. Most businesses on the west coast are owned and run by incomers [white settlers] they pay over the odds for properties and make life more difficult for others by so doing. They do tend to do their houses up to look like suburban semis and not in keeping with local architectural style. As Ake said, they move into houses with septic tanks, and still use Domestos, and use biological detergents, septic tanks work by bacteriological action, and properly used last for years without maintenance. All these chemical cleaners do is kill the bacteria, so the tank doesn't work properly and the bacteria fails to break down all the nasties, which then leach out into the surrounding water courses, causing the problems Ake mentioned. They move to remote places with very little amenities, and then moan about the lack of services. I had my own business delivering all along the west coast from Ardnamurchan to Tongue, and I know whereof I speak.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 03:41 PM

Giok - Yes, I did take the trouble to read Ake's posts (he's usually worth the trouble!), & I made no comment over English/Scottish (what is it with yez Scot's gits, eh?! ;-) ).

I'm much more likely to believe in a problem with relatively well-off middle-class immigrants, than one with nationalities, which point Ake has already made. Again though, who is failing to advise these people about the... benefits of not using Domestos? (Some of) The local builders they're paying? Naaaah...

If Huygens had found life on Titan it'd be saying "Worl, mate, if yer wanna stop those methane run-offs..." And, mostly, they wouldn't be advising the environmentally friendly option, they'd be advising the one that got them paid cash down, let's not involve the taxman!!

Ake was talking a lot about medicine run-off, which sounded decidely OTT to me (without any substantiation, anyway)). But I'm entirely in agreement with the general opinion about townies who move to deepest Country, & expect to live as though they were still in darkest Town! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 04:51 PM

One thing absolutely certain on the medication front, the oestregens and whatevers from the birth control pill are definitely getting into the sea, and making fish sterile, or else they change sex.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 04:55 PM

And can we really blame our post-menopausal senior citizens (Rumania being ignored at this point!) for the effects of The Pill, eh?! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 05:25 PM

Did I blame them, don't their kids visit?
Giok :~)

Subject: RE: BS: Yorshire versus the Daily Mirror
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 08:59 PM

Giok....Thanks for your support against the Viking Raedwulf,who I dont believe is English at all, and in fact, seems so contrary as to deserve to become an honourary Scot

I'm very impressed by your knowledge of sewage disposal, especially the technical details on Septic tanks, biological breakdown, effects of houshold chemicals ect, although I think Raedwulf may have apoint over the small matter of the birth pills.

Although I say it myself, I too am a bit of an expert on these matters,having spent so long examining the contents of Septic tanks that friends now prefer to approach me from downwind.

I look forward to discussing these matters with you at length, While the threads of Mudcat become a wind swept desert.

Raedwulf ...If you do ever decide to re-locate to Scotland, come to Loch Fyne, I think you'd be one "white settler" who would settle in just grand....Ake