BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 06:04 PM

BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) -- U.S.-led forces, insurgents and criminal gangs have killed nearly 25,000 civilians, police and army recruits since the war began in March 2003, according to a survey by Iraq Body Count, a U.S.-British non-government group.

Nearly half the deaths occurred in Baghdad, where a fifth of Iraq's 25 million people live, according to media reports that Iraq Body Count has surveyed.

The second-highest death toll was in the former insurgent stronghold of Falluja, where one in every 137 of the town's population has died violently.

Of the total, nearly 37 percent were killed by U.S.-led forces, according to the group.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/19/iraq.bodycount.reut/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 05 - 01:07 PM

"Iraq uses poison gas on Halabja, a Kurdish village, killing 6,000 men, women and children. At the time Iraq was a USA client state. Between 1985 and 1989, private companies from the USA had exported biological agents to Iraq after obtaining licenses from the USA Department of Commerce (including Bacillus anthracis, the cause of the often fatal disease, anthrax and Histoplasma capsulatum, a disease that attacks lungs, brain, heart and spinal chord). Other exports had included the precursors to chemical warfare agents, production facilities and equipment for filling warheads with chemicals."

Here is what YOU export, asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 08 May 05 - 01:03 PM

Canada exports asbestos. Here are some US exports:

Year Country Details
1946 Japan Obtained results of wartime biological experiments from Japan after promising immunity from prosecution.
1950 Bahamas Spraying of toxic bacteria for testing.
1951 Marshall Islands Testing of Hydrogen Bomb.
1952 Korea Biological (plague, anthrax and encephalitis) and chemical (napalm) warfare.
1953 Canada Chemical tests (zinc cadmium sulphide) in city.
1954 Marshall Islands Testing of Hydrogen Bomb.
1958 Turkey
Greece Nuclear weapons installed in a country bordering the USSR.
1962 Vietnam Use of Agent Orange, a defoliant which contains dioxin which is carcinogenic (cancer producing).
1962 Cuba Use of chemical contaminants to sabotage the country's sugar and turkey exports.
1965 Vietnam Use of agent orange (cancer producing defoliant) and flesh burning napalm.
1968 Vietnam Use of flesh burning napalm.
1968 Marshall Islands Human aftermath of nuclear testing.
1969 Korea Agent Orange (carcinogenic defoliant) used extensively; Chemical training given to other countries.
1970 Vietnam Agent Orange used extensively; CS Gas sprayed, killing thousands; cyanide, arsenic, napalm and naphthalene used.
1970 Laos Sarin nerve gas used against villages - also affects USA soldiers.
1971 Cuba Pigs infected with African Swine Fever.
1975 Vietnam Human aftermath of Agent Orange used.
1980 Cuba Attempt to infect Cuba with bacteria.
1988 Iraq Export of biological and chemical agents to a regime that gasses civilians.
1989 Panama Village sprayed with gas during invasion.
1991 Iraq Deliberate bombing of nuclear facilities; use of weapons tipped with depleted Uranium, a hard but radioactive metal; civilians napalmed; use of sarin nerve gas.
1994 USA USA soldiers exposed to nuclear, biological and chemical agents around the world.
1996 Cuba Anti-crop insect sprayed over Cuba.
1997 USA Refusal of USA to sign a treaty banning chemical weapons (signed by over 100 countries).
1998 South Africa Encouragment of South Africa's apartheid regime to develop chemical and biological weapons.
1999 USA Refusal of USA to sign a treaty banning nuclear tests.
1999 Panama USA military tests chemicals like Agent Orange, mustard gas, VX, sarin and cyanide in Panama.
2001 Iraq Human aftermath of 96,000 depleted Uranium shells dropped on Iraq since 1991.
2001 USA Unilateral USA withdrawal from missile and biological treaties.
2003 Iraq Effects of depleted Uranium used in Iraq during the 1991 Gulf War. Declaration that it will be used again in the 2003 invasion.
2003 Iraq Use of depleted Uranium.
2003 Iraq Use of napalm near Baghdad.
2003 USA and others Storage of nuclear weapons in the USA and other countries.
2003 Colombia Toxic spraying.
2004 Iraq Use of napalm in Fallujah.
2005 Vietnam Legal case about the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.

Yep. Canada exports asbestos.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 05 - 06:45 PM

From now on I'll just use FO for you.

FO.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 05 - 06:30 PM

Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 05 - 06:29 PM

s usual, the liberal disease has struck: Accuse the person you are arguing with of whatever you have done, then refuse to talk to them. seems like even the more intelligent folks here have bought into it.

I HAVE discussed my views, why I feel that way, and asked for discussion.

If there are those here who "Blindly follow, obfuscate, speak bullshit and move on", they are those who tell others NOT to listen to people who dieagree with them. I have never asked anyone not to listen to those posting in opposition to my viewpoint- I have asked for the same level of discussion as afforded others. If that is too much to ask for, I humbly apologize for thinking this was an adult discussion, and will proceed to act like briucie and MG, since that is what is desired.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:46 AM

Grumpy me arse. Ever since I stopped reading BB's posts my BP has been fine. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:43 AM

aha - a grumpy old men moment!

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:36 AM

I think you are the worst kind of American, BB. Blindly follow, obfuscate, speak bullshit and move on. Never again, fellow. You have very seldom answered political questions from anyone on this forum. I think your 'fun' days are over.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:33 AM

As I was passing your post I noticed the word spout. Into gardening are you? LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:05 AM

And yet another unread. Dang. Wish I'd known how easy this is to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 May 05 - 01:25 AM

It is a waste of time when you make statements, then refuse to even read my comments on them. Seems like you just want to spout off, without any real discussion. A little closed-minded, I would think.

Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 12:45 AM

BB,

I do not wish to engage in conversation with you again. It is a waste of time.

Have a nice life.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 12:36 AM

'Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.'

From the www. No attribution.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 05 - 10:58 PM

And yet another unread post from the Conservative mouthpiece.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 05 - 10:55 PM

obviously the best that you can do, in response to a question you don't like the answer to. Seems like you would not be taking after Martin G so easily, but I guess one never knows.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 05 - 10:47 PM

Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 05 - 10:46 PM

brucie,

I DID answer your uestion- YOU are the narrow-minded bigot that refuses to answer mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 05 - 10:29 PM

"beardedbruce - You cannot answer my question by changing the subject."

Jesus H Christ, he's never done it any other way.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 05 - 09:56 PM

Your post says little about you, but perhaps represents a viewpoint you seem to want us to agree with.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 05 - 09:48 PM

Your post says *ALL* anyone has to know about you and your words.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 05 May 05 - 11:05 AM

It's easy to skip your posts, BB. And I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 05 - 02:43 AM

sounds like YOU missed the point, dianavan.


What part of *ALL* do you have a problem with?

And who died and made you God?

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 05 - 02:22 AM

"Just because you believe it's true doesn't make it true.
Just because your motives are pure doesn't mean you are not doing harm."

Sounds like the attempt to bring democracy to Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: DougR
Date: 05 May 05 - 01:07 AM

Guest whoever you are: Can't abide to view news that doesn't coincide with your point of view, right?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 05 - 12:07 AM

...something for ALL of us to keep in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 05 - 12:06 AM

brucie,

Just because you believe it's true doesn't make it true.
Just because your motives are pure doesn't mean you are not doing harm.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 05 - 12:04 AM

brucie,

You have no idea about my mind- but I can see that yours is intolerant of other's viewpoints, unable to deal with reality, and more interested in ad hominim insults than discussion of facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 05 - 09:36 PM

. . . and your mind is narrow enough to contain itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 05 - 09:30 PM

You are sooo cute, and original.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 May 05 - 09:21 PM

Sorry, brucie. But after that bullshit I no longer read your posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 02 May 05 - 11:54 AM

Good looking fellow that Caesar.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 05 - 11:03 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushpax1.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 02 May 05 - 10:35 AM

Well, maybe the US shouldn't have armed Hussein in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: podman
Date: 02 May 05 - 05:35 AM

Saddam modelled himself on that will known humanitarian Josef Stalin. He killed any and all who opposed him or were likely to oppose him or would be capable to oppose him.

There are stories about him having people stand in groups while he went among them and executed them with a pistol.

They are finding body dumps all over the country.

You have a problem with American soldiers who are expecting people to drive mobile bombs amongst them and try to kill them. Sometimes these Americans have shot at people who gave that appearance.

You try it.

Meanwhile the concept of a 'ratio' between Iraqis and Americans is a good one. What if it allows the Americans to have a few free shots if they are 'under your curve'?

Let's see how your 'ratio' compares when you're shot by a terrorist pretending to be wounded.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 05 - 02:51 AM

"The question is: So whats the ratio between those killed by the U.S., those killed by insurgents and those killed by Saddam? "

Best numbers I can come up with are Saddam killed more than 300,000 Kurds. Unknown how many others. No breakdown that can be trusted of how many insurgents vs US have killed, as everyone here states all the killed in Iraq are the fault of the US.



"Are you trying to say that the war in Iraq was a preventative measure? If so, you would have to add the number of Iraqis killed by both the U.S. and the insurgents to decide if the invasion was worth it. "

No, I HAVE stated that the invasion of Iraq was a continuation of the 1991 war, when Saddam failed to comply with the cease-fire provisions that he had agreed to. I think 14 years of non-compliance were enough- others seem to have wanted to make it a few more decades.





"What kind of a person kills because they are afraid they might be killed? Is that your your new rationale for the war in Iraq? I call that a criminal act. It was hardly self defense. "

That is YOUR rational. I have stated mine in numerous threads, but have never been given the curtesy of a reasonable discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: dianavan
Date: 02 May 05 - 02:44 AM

beardedbruce - You cannot answer my question by changing the subject. If you want to talk about asbestos, start your own thread.

The question is: So whats the ratio between those killed by the U.S., those killed by insurgents and those killed by Saddam?

Are you trying to say that the war in Iraq was a preventative measure? If so, you would have to add the number of Iraqis killed by both the U.S. and the insurgents to decide if the invasion was worth it.

What kind of a person kills because they are afraid they might be killed? Is that your your new rationale for the war in Iraq? I call that a criminal act. It was hardly self defense.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 02 May 05 - 12:12 AM

Good night, Bruce. I gotta get. It's been a slice.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 02 May 05 - 12:05 AM

"Indeed, the true weapons of mass destruction are the jet fighters, tanks, machine guns and other military exports that the United States ships to nondemocratic countries -- a record $8.3 billion worth in the 1997 fiscal year, the last year for which figures are available."

Does this count as a bad thing? Not quite as bad as asbestos mind you, but bad nevertheless. Or do you have some spin for this, BB?

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:57 PM

I just complimented you on the Canada thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:52 PM

Dr. Jukka Takala, Director of InFocus Programme SafeWork at the International Labour Organisation (ILO), has estimated the number of work-related asbestos deaths from mesothelioma, lung cancer, asbestosis and other diseases worldwide as 100,000 every year, and growing.

So $$Canada kills about as many each year as the entire Iraq war.....

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:52 PM

There you go, BB. The asbestos thing. And you are right about that. However, this thread is about--well, read the title. You do that lots ya know. Try to change the subject when you don't want to deal with the questions. Hell, I started a thread for you a while back about the bad things Canada does. But THIS thread is about the war in Iraq. I am sure Canada will be sending asbestos there. But for now, until we do, back to this thread.

Good try, BTW.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:41 PM

I do not think that there are accurate figures. Perhaps between 20K and 130K Iraqis have been kiled, but I cannot say with any certainty how many were forces under arms, how many civilian casualties, and how many were killed by insurgents. THAT breakdown is needed before a thread like this can have any real meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:36 PM

brucie,

I think we will all agree that it would be better if no-one else were killed- and that could happen IF the terrorists wanted to let a civilian government take form in Iraq so the US and allies could leave. Since they do not, perhaps some blame should be held for them.

And BTW, the total killed in Iraq by US and allied forces over the TWO wars is actually less than the number of third world victims of Canadian Asbestos that will be dying before their time over the next 30 years. But that must be ok- Canadian dollars are so much more important than the risk of WMD ( and the FACTS that were know indicated a real risk, regardless of what was found.)

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:34 PM

I am particularly happy that you chose to quote me. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:26 PM

That's true, GUEST. Now, as to my question; do you have any figures for us or did you just post to say someting obvious?

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:16 PM

"It seems that those who support the continuing war in Iraq would be happy if those who don't support the war would simply say that no one had been killed. "


It seems that those who don't support the war would be happy if those who did support the war would simply say that everything wrong in the world was the fault of the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:16 PM

Moving on. What figures to do with casualties (civilian and military) inflicted by the US, UK, Spain and Bulgaria would be acceptable to pro-war people here? Since the anti-war people's figures are always wrong, could the pro-war people please supply us with the correct figures?

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 05 - 11:01 PM

It seems that those who support the continuing war in Iraq would be happy if those who don't support the war would simply say that no one had been killed. OK, I will say that. No one has been killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Pax Americana Kills More Iraqis
From: dianavan
Date: 01 May 05 - 10:51 PM

So whats the ratio between those killed by the U.S., those killed by insurgents and those killed by Saddam?