BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales

Subject: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:08 PM

May I be first to register my pleasure at the banning of Foxhunting to take effect this Friday in England and Wales.

Maybe the morons will find something more constructive to do at weekends, instead of terrorising our wildlife.

It was never about class, and always about cruelty.

This is one of the only things Blair's government has got right.

Tally ho! Ha ha

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:16 PM

I don't care either way, but to say it wasn't about class is crap. Class is what the Labour Party new or old is all about.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:16 PM

I suspect this will eventually go the way of prohibition

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:23 PM

It certainly isn't a class thing - it's a " what is right and moral thing". And, don't forget, all the working-class equivalents - dog/cock fighting - were banned years ago!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: *Laura*
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:24 PM

What was never about class Smiler? Hunting, or the decision to ban it?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:41 PM

It's not hunting. It's a cruel chase in which an animal is subjected to psycological terror and physical torture. Proper hunting allows neither.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:46 PM

Both Laura.

As tunesmith says, working class forms of animal cruelty were banned a long time ago.

It is a moral thing. Pain and terror transcend both class and species.

While I am pleased that their wretched way of life is dismantled and have no sympathy for them,
I am over the moon, that our wildlife is being afforded a protection, it has never had before.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:49 PM

"Proper hunting allows neither."

What would white people know about proper hunting!

BS! Ban it all

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:52 PM

Just wait till rabies becomes rampant in the UK, which it will the bigger the fox population becomes. I expect people will prefer the survival of foxes over that of their bird killing cats. Their children will also come second of course. The whole thing stinks of class prejudice and hypocrisy.

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:59 PM

"wait till rabies becomes rampant in the UK"

How could the rest of the world tell the difference....

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 03:59 PM

CH... now, what would a Viking do without meat? Ban all swords I say.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: *Laura*
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:01 PM

But hunting only accounts for about 6% of fox deaths or something like that. What about all the foxes killed in towns and cities each year?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Layah
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:02 PM

Out of curiosity, CH, what color of skin makes you know something about hunting? Is this innate knowledge, goes along with having said color of skin?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:04 PM

Well you've just demolished the argument that it was done for fox control Laura.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,ged
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:05 PM

Laura, dogs and cats are killed on the roads every day. Should we take up ripping them apart while they are still alive so as to lessen the chances of them ending us as road kill?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:05 PM

I get my meat from the grocery store... the same as 99% of the white people in the world... (The onther 1% most likely gets it out of a dumpster or from garbage bags after fat lazy slobs like the rest of us are 'done' with it)

And sure... I love the taste of game... and I've hunted... and I don't care what 'hunters' say... it's cruel... especially given how unlikely the "Instant Kill Shot" is...

So if it's cruelty yer looking to ban, better ban it all... And ya'd better ban 95% of human-to-human contact while yer at it....

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: *Laura*
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:07 PM

Oi - don't start on me. I'm only asking. Jeez.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:17 PM

CH... apparently, you're not much of a hunter. And, until you stop eating meat, you are worse than a poor hunter.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:20 PM

Sorry Laura.

You asked some valid questions. Didn't mean to start on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,ged
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:34 PM

Sorry Laura. Are you still hoping to get in a kill before the ban or have you gone off that idea now?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: *Laura*
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:41 PM

Time's kinda run out now.
Ahh I don't know - I never would have thought about it if it hadn't been banned. I just, I dunno - I wanted to have the chance to make the choice at some point in my life. Never will now so that's why I was so against it.

And it's true anyway - far far more foxes are killed each year in the towns and cities than by hunts, and not by cars, but by people who kill them because they are a pest.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:42 PM

I don't have to hunt... I pay other people to raise, slaughter and deliver meat to me... Division of labour... It's one of the joys of NOT living in the middle ages anymore...

Or do you raise your own cotton to make clothing from... and plant, and harvest all your own veggies? I suppose you mined, processed, manufactured and assembled all the bits that went into that PC you're on too eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:44 PM

Well, they're going to have more to kill now. However, hopefully, it'll be much more humane.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: *Laura*
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:45 PM

Yes, hopefully.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:54 PM

CH... Shall we agree to disagree ? I beg your forgiveness for the slight. It was in poor taste and unwarranted. I'll blame my rash behaviour to the mead. I shall respect your right to BBQ if you will respect mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:55 PM

The hunt ban is an aweful piece of partisan, class based legislation, that hopefully will be repealed as soon as possible. This may be an insult to the convention that goverment do not reverse each others legislation, but that is is just part of the mainly unwritten consitution of Britan, that has been abused in almost every way by the 'new' Labour goverment by 1997.

Bunnahbhain

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 05:02 PM

"CH... Shall we agree to disagree ?"

We can even just flat out disagree Gnu... tain't no thing, but a chicken wing, mate...

What a dull world it'd be if we all felt exactly the same about everything all the time eh....

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 06:33 PM

I'm thrilled at the ban and desolate that the police appear to have given the bastards permission to carry on, as they don't want to make the effort to stop them. This will only lead to acts against the hunters by frustrated opponents who see the law flouted. Once we get to the point that you choose which laws you abide by we're all f...d

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 08:06 PM

"...far far more foxes are killed each year in the towns and cities than by hunts, and not by cars, but by people who kill them because they are a pest."

Where'd you get that statistic, Laura? Maybe it's true, but all I know is, foxes are pretty popular in Harlow - people even feed them. More often than not, if I'm out late coming home from a session or something, I'll see the odd fox strolling around looking pretty relaxed. If anybody is busy killing them they keep very quiet about it, wisely.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 08:16 PM

http://www.hounslow.gov.uk/home/a-z_services/u/urbanfoxespestcontrol.htm

if this link works...it is just one borough's view on killing urban foxes, and it kind of says they don't?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 12:59 AM

Now that Dido, Bendigo and the rest of them hounds have been made redundant, will the British government put them on a pension for life?

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:02 AM

More foxes are killed in towns and cities simply because that is where more of them now live. If fox hunting was done purely as a way of controlling the fox population (the argument used for not banning it a century ago along with cock fights and badger baiting), then why haven't I seen the Quorn or Cattistock hunts riding down my road?

We have foxes near us. They are a nuisance if you don't put your rubbish in bins, or if they can get into your garden and scent. There is at least one lady in my block who leaves food for them, they regularly patrol my daughter's school, I have to be careful driving after midnight because there is more likely to be a fox in the road than a cat or a dog. But they are not a big problem. They inhabit the Northern Outfall Sewer and do a pretty good job of keeping the rats under control and scavenging the local area for scraps that attract more rats.

It also means that the children who live in this area have seen a real 'wild' animal... I was brought up in the country with a hunting community, and never saw a *live* fox until I was 18.

Personally I am glad that this activity has been banned. Regardless of what people say, it IS class related - only the well off or landed gentry can afford the money and space to keep the 2-3 horses per person each hunt requires, or the kennelling that 30-40 hounds require. And that's before we start on the riding habits, riding lessons, vets' bills, hospital bills and the social expenses that are associated with hunting.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: mooman
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:20 AM

And good riddance to that hideous and cruel anachronism. It should have been banned years ago and may it never return.

Peace

moo (wearing both biologist's and plain sentient being's hats)

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:22 AM

Just wait till rabies becomes rampant in the UK, which it will the bigger the fox population becomes.

So the reason we don't have rabies in the UK is because of the tiny percentage of foxes killed by the hunt? Wow! I never knew that. I thought is was more to do with us being an island and having strict controls on the import of animals? You learn something new everday...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:50 AM

McGrath,
       The statistics concerning fox road deaths were read out by Germaine Greer on Channel recently and are as follows:- foxes killed by hunting per year = 25,000. Foxes killed on the roads each year = 100,000.
                         Tally ho!
                           el ted
                        pro - hunting.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 05:04 AM

Well DtG it's true that it works at the moment, but when it eventually gets here [and it will] foxes will be the first casualty. Not through the disease but through being killed by all possible means, by order of HMG to slow the spread of the disease. That will be followed by stray or feral cats, and all animals in rescue kennels etc. That of course will lead to a long thread on Mudcat protesting about animals being deprived of the right to be rabid.
Giok
pro personal freedoms

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,eric the red
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:50 AM

The Devonshire Constabulary [ the largest number of hunts in England ] have allready said they have no intention of policing this ban, this is tantamount to telling the red coat brigade it is OK to break the law if they don't agree with it.

Hunters trip themselves up everytime they open their gobs, firstly they say hunting is the only effective way of controlling the fox population and the go on to say they only kill a few foxes.

Why do these detestable people think they have a right to chose which laws the want to obey or not.


eric

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,Giok
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 08:49 AM

Maybe they think they're MPs eric!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 11:01 AM

Disease is one of the the natural ways natural populations of wild animals are controlled.

Whatever happens from now one - perhaps we can finally stop hunting 'red herring's and pretending that hunting with hounds ever had anything to do with controling fox numbers?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 12:04 PM

So the reason we don't have rabies in the UK is because of the tiny percentage of foxes killed by the hunt? Wow! I never knew that. I thought is was more to do with us being an island and having strict controls on the import of animals? You learn something new everday...

Nice one Dave

*Smiles*

I think the position of some of our senior police on this matter does have serious implications. We seem to heading to be heading for a situation where those who are empowered only to enforce legislation fairly - appear to think they have a choice about which ones to enforce to the very letter and which to ignore.

It is right that these officers should be listened to before the law is passed. But after this - and what ever their views - good or bad - it is the law and it is their job to esure that it is enforced.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:15 PM

I think the ban is a great thing. It'll send a lot of English fox-hunters to Ireland where it's still legal, and they'll spend a lot of English money while they're there. God knows the Irish need the money. And the French and Italians stand to make a bundle as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:37 PM

Well terminal smugness is a sad thing, as people just sit back and say 'It won't happen to us' I did not say that rabies was to be found on the UK mainland as far as we know, what I did say, and I will say it again, RABIES WILL COME TO THE UK, it is already endemic across the channel, and now that UK dogs can go abroad using a 'Pet Passport' it will come to the UK. The rules and regs for the use and obtaining of the 'Pet Passport' are very stringent, but it isn't infallible.
What do anti hunt people do when they get mice or rats in their
house?
I'm sure the UK police have enough to do without trying to enforce unnecessary, and pointless laws.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:58 PM

If the majority of the population agree with it, it may not be necessary,but it makes more people satisfies than dis-satisfied. Time for a few people to find a new hobby?

And 1000's of cats and dogs are killed on the roads daily, should we take up the slaughter of them too? Following a very shaky logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 02:05 PM

"What do anti hunt people do when they get mice or rats in their
house?"

Personally? Uh, kill them. With a cat, or a trap, or a well-aimed missile of some sort...but i don't kill them uneccessarily, nor do i take any pleasure in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 02:13 PM

Whatever happens from now one - perhaps we can finally stop hunting 'red herring's and pretending that hunting with hounds ever had anything to do with controling fox numbers?

It looks as if the same people are going to continue to meet - dress-up as usual to ride all over the country side but now claim it is to simply exercise their dogs.

Whether they do this or follow a drag-line scent trail - that is fine by me (and the law). Everyone can see that a lot of pleasure can be obtained by this and very few would wish to prevent it. I may even saddle-up and join them........

So what is all the fuss about now about?

If these 'hunters' still say they intend to hunt and kill foxes and they still do indulge in this - I would expect the law to be enforced. For I am sure there will be lots present to record the identity of the participants and supply this evidence to the police.

The so-called pro fox hunting lobby are going to have to decide when they meet - if they are proudly and openly going to continue to defy the law and hunt and kill foxes with hounds or if they are going to do this but hide behind the lie that they are doing something else.

To now attend such a hunt but pretend to be obeying the law to avoid the consequences of breaking it - would not seem to be much of an honourable protest action. Perhaps people prepared to do this are not honourable people?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 02:18 PM

What do pro hunt people do when they get mice or rats in their
house?

Why they saddle up their trusty hunter, put on their red coats and 'Tally-Ho' all over their furniture?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:11 PM

It won't be long till some enterprising anti fox hunting campaigner, uses a road kill fox to try and frame some poor fox hunt. This is because they are not really out to stop fox hunting, they are out to piss off what they regard as a load of toffs. Or I could be wrong, after all it's got nothing to do with class has it?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:18 PM

Probably. From personal experience, all the fox hunters i've met have been arrogant, over-priviliged, self-righteous w**ks. All the anti fox hunting campaigners i've met have been exactly the same, only more self-righteous... *sigh*...can't win, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:21 PM

A generalisation BI, but a very agreeable one ;~)
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting banned in England/Wales
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:29 PM

See, i'm not prejudiced, i hate everyone equally.