BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a

Subject: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:50 PM

Tomorrow is my son's 30th birthday. As usual, he has disappeared for about a year and will turn up when he needs to know he has a family who loves him. I wonder if he will ever be around to care for me when I can't take care of myself. Not looking for sympathy; just ruminating.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:58 PM

Without casting any aspertions on anyone, I'm thinking that the only person who will take care of me is me (and my wife). We have no children, and I don't think that I could depend upon them if we did.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:59 PM

End up?

Been there, done that, read the book, watched the play, saw the movie, was in the cast for the road tour, got the T-shirt to prove it....

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 09:11 PM

Hey Mary, We have 5 children (ages 21, 23, 25, 27 and 29) and we've wondered the same thing. Tawmmie and I will be retiring in 5 years and we've been ruminating on the thought of moving to New England somewhere for our golden years. Maybe we can all take care of each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 09:22 PM

Yo, Sins...

I believe in Karma... While it may not be about yer kid, hey, if ya send out enough love while you can than things will work out fir ya when you need it back...

Simplistic? Yeah... But that's what I believe and believe it deeply and seen it it up close so, hey, just saty the lovin', carin', lady that you are and things will be fine...

I promise...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 09:58 PM

old and a what?

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 10:07 PM

How many of US took care of our parents when they got old?

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 10:20 PM

I did.
Bobert - I have lived my life giving out good karma (usually) knowing that it would come back. Who knows - maybe it will be Mike and Tawmmie living next door.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: John O'L
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 10:53 PM

It's a parent's lot to be neglected, and the better the parent the greater the neglect (generally speaking). It has to be that way. It's how you know if you've done a good job.

My siblings and I were all absentee offspring from as soon as we were able, but the world is small, and whenever they needed us at least some of us were there. Sometimes when they didn't. Sometimes when they would have preferred us gone.

My kids don't always show the full depth of their feelings, and I know I didn't either. You have to keep some in reserve for special occasions.

You may be pleasantly surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Peace
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 10:59 PM

I know I will.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:05 PM

He will not be around.

The last five years of his life will be spent in coma. Medical/Legal/Moral-Guilt costs will consume your savings and all of your monetary-property-value.

You will die in a state-run-hospice - feeling good from the morphine and knowing you "did right" by extending the vegitative life of your son.

You will leave no known biological heirs - (which is good for the eco-chain.)

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

post an imprint of your tea-leaves for a more precise reading as to exact dates - (but please include a 500 dollar (US) contribution to CAMSCO)

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:10 PM

With my kids, it depends on their current partner. At present, my son's girlfriend is the one to remind him of birthday's and other special occasions. With my daughter, its her boyfriend that tells her she needs to pay more attention to me and to respect that I am her mother.

When they are single, I hardly ever see them. They're too busy looking for their significant "other".

My son has told me, however, not to worry about old age because there will always be room at his house. I hope I never have to take him up on it but it is comforting to know.

Sinsull - Are your kids settled yet? Do they have children? Sometimes it takes them a long time to return but they usually do.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:48 PM

Truthfully, I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to retire. Librarians aren't the best paid people in the world.

One of the saddest things I've ever run across was a letter from a city attorney to a library board, written back in 1953. In it, the city attorney said that there was no legal way the board could pay a pension of $50 per month to the recently-retired librarian, even though she'd worked at the library since it started in 1902. A phrase from the letter sticks with me: "I must admit that we did not pay her anywhere near what she was worth."

Two weeks after the letter was written, the lady was dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:05 AM

Sorry to hear that, Sinsull. I don't usually get to spend my son's birthdays with him either (he has been away at university in Utah, and his other home base is in the Washington DC area). We fly him down here when we can, and I love seeing him whenever possible. But I expect him to be spending the next few decades of his life (at the very least), traveling around the world and doing things he loves doing.

Anyway, I'll be thinking about you tomorrow, as, I am sure, will many other people. So I wish you (tomorrow), a happy 30th aniversary of the day you brought a new life into the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:22 AM

So did I.

My daughter and son in law have a guest house (two rooms and a bath) they say is "mine" when I need it. I don't expect to need it. Frankly, I don't dread the possibility of a nursing home. I'm very aware of the dwindling autonomy that comes with age and decrepitude. At the same time I hope to have a joyful old age.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 01:30 AM

I won't... I have cats. So even if I do, at least they'll be fed until the council break the door down.

LTS

Subject: Lyr Add: SONS AND DAUGHTERS (Harvey Andrews)
From: GUEST,harvey andrews
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 06:07 AM

SONS AND DAUGHTERS

Sons and daughters leaving
Going far away
See them sadly waving
Wishing they could stay
All they see about them
Darkness and decay
Sons and daughters leaving
Going far away

Job in South Australia
Out along a bay
House with half an acre
Mortgage they can pay
Sandy beach and blue sky
Safe for childrens play
Job in South Australia
Out along a bay

   Letting go the children
   Telling them goodbye
   See you in the summer,
   Yes, I know you'll try
   A better life for certain
   Break the bonds that tie
   Letting go the children
   Telling them goodbye

Should have gone in '80
Things were different then
Now you're so much older
Couldn't start again
Smile and say it's all right
That was way back when
Should have gone in '80
Things were different then

So you're on your own now
That's the way life goes
Home's too big and empty
Bid for bungalows
Learn to send an e mail
Leaving out life's woes
So you're on your own now
That's the way life goes

With sons and daughters leaving
Going far away
See them sadly waving
Wishing they could stay
All they see about them
Darkness and decay
Sons and daughters leaving
Going far away
Sons and daughters leaving
For a better day

Subject: Lyr Add: SONS OF YOUR SONS (Jacques Brel)
From: Amos
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:09 AM

This song from Jacques Brel was popularized by Judy Collins. It is relevant here, and in its own way quite poignant.

Sons Of Your Sons

© Jacques Brel

Sons of the thief, sons of the saint
Who is the child with no complaint
Sons of the great or sons unknown
All were children like your own
The same sweet smiles, the same sad tears
The cries at night, the nightmare fears
Sons of the great or sons unknown
All were children like your own

So long ago: long, long, ago

But sons of tycoons or sons of the farms
All of the children ran from your arms
Through fields of gold, through fields of ruin
All of the children vanished too soon
In tow'ring waves, in walls of flesh
Among dying birds trembling with death
Sons of tycoons or sons of the farms
All of the children ran from your arms

So long ago: long, long, ago

But sons of your sons or sons passing by
Children we lost in lullabies
Sons of true love or sons of regret
All of the sons you cannot forget
Some built the roads, some wrote the poems
Some went to war, some never came home
Sons of your sons or sons passing by
Children we lost in lullabies

So long ago: long, long, ago

But, sons of the thief, sons of the saint
Who is the child with no complaint
Sons of the great or sons unknown
All were children like your own
The same sweet smiles, the same sad tears
The cries at night, the nightmare fears
Sons of the great or sons unknown
All were children like your own

Like your own, like your own

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Tinker
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:57 AM

Mary, we give and build what we can and deal with what we're dealt. The communities we build for ourselves are perhaps as important as the roots we are able to give our kids. But it doesn't make the what if's less whistful...

Love Ya

Kathy

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:12 AM

I would like to thank my youngest daughter Francesca, for helping me assemble a cheapo B & Q barbecue yesterday. Without her patient attention to the instructions, I would have smacked hell out of it with a lump hammer! Talk about fiddly!
    Anyway, I digress, my daughters have told me they are simply going to roll me into a ditch after they have emptied my bank account.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 01:31 PM

...save them the trouble. Spend it all now.

Subject: Lyr Add: JUST LIKE YOU
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 01:48 PM

JUST LIKE YOU

Hector Brown, he lives on a farm been a farmer all his life
'Til he had to slow down, his heart broke down,
He went under a surgeon's knife,
And the 4 kids that he raised,
They all live so far from home,
And since his wife died last December,
Hector's all alone.

CHORUS:
And if you don't think an old man,
Could be alone and blue,
Let me tell you my friend,
He's just like you.

Ethel Kline, she lives in the city,
The landlord lives out of town
When the cold wind blows it chills her
Her backache gets her down,
So she reads by day, sleeps by night,
She never goes nowhere,
and scarcely anybody, even know's she's there.

And if you don't think that woman,
Could be alone and blue,
Let me tell you my friend,
She's just like you.

Well I know it's not so long ago,
You were only 21,
But time moves only one way,
You won't always be young,
And if you don't think, when you get old,
You can be alone and blue,
Let me tell you my friend,
You've got some thinking to do.

And if you don't think an old man,
can be alone and blue,
Let me tell you my friend,
He's just like you.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE OLD FOLKS
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 01:49 PM

THE OLD FOLKS

The old folks don't talk much
And they talk so slowly when they do
They are rich, they are poor, their illusions are gone
They share one haeart for two
Their homes all smell of thyme, of old photographs
And an old-fashioned song
Though you may live in town you live so far away
When you've lived too long
And have they laughed too much, do their dry voices crack
Talking of times gone by
And have they cried too much, a tear or two
Still always seems to cloud the eye
They tremble as they watch the old silver clock
When day is through
It tick-tocks oh so slow, it says, "Yes," it says, "No"
It says, "I'll wait for you."
The old folks dream no more
The books have gone to sleep, the piano's out of tune
The little cat is dead and no more do they sing
On a Sunday afternoon
The old folks move no more, their world's become too small
Their bodies feel like lead
They might look out the window or else sit in a chair
Or else they stay in bed
And if they still go out, arm in arm, arm in arm
In the morning's chill
It's to have a good cry, to say their last good-bye
To one who's older still
And then they go home to the old silver clock
When day is through
It tick-tocks oh so slow, it says, "Yes," it says, "No"
It says, "I'll wait for you."
The old folks never die
They just put down their heads and go to sleep one day
They hold each other's hand like children in the dark
But one will get lost anyway
And the other will remain just sitting in that room
Which makes no sound
It doesn't matter now, the song has died away
And echoes all around
You'll see them when they walk through the sun-filled park
Where children run and play
It hurts too much to smile, it hurts too much but life goes on
For still another day
As they try to escape the old silver clock
When day is through
It tick-tocks oh so slow, it says, "Yes," it says, "No"
It says, "I'll wait for you."
The old, old silver clock that's hanging on the wall
That waits for us
All

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:28 AM

And I won't be changing my name to Eleanor Rigby either!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Davetnova
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:12 AM

Thank you. I now feel extremely depressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 07:31 AM

I feel horribly guilty because I won't be able to look after my parents when they are too old to look after themselves....I live in England and they live in Australia. It will probably fall to my sister to do it, though she will have all and any support I can give her. At the moment I'm really pleased because my 22 year old nephew has just bought a house round the corner from my Mum & Dad and pops in regularly.

As far as I'm concerned, my 9 year old daughter says she is going to stay with me forever, but that will change! My 14 year old son still has every intention of coming home every Sunday for Sunday roast dinner! I have made it quite clear to them that the reason I want them to get a good education, is so they can keep me in my old age. :-)

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 10:18 AM

Amos,
I have printed the lyrics and will save them for Lawrence the next time he surfaces. Must have been the rain. I was somewhat self pitying yesterday. Of course, my cats wouldn't stand for it and had me up and about so all is well.
I have occasionally warned my family that if they can't get a hold of me they better check or the cats will see to it there is not enough left to identify. I won't mind.

Subject: Lyr Add: KILKELLY IRELAND
From: JennyO
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:12 AM

Oh dear, this is not a very happy thread. I think this is something that we will all have to face, but don't want to think about. I know I don't. I would hope that my son would probably be there in some way. My daughter can barely look after herself, let alone anyone else. The thought of losing independence is the worst part in my opinion.

I can only try to adopt Bobert's approach to it, and hope that I will get back some of what I have given. There is a lot of comfort in that thought.

This song, which was sung in a session on the weekend, immediately sprang to mind.

                        KILKELLY IRELAND - Peter and Steve Jones
            
   Kilkelly, Ireland eighteen and sixty, my dear and loving son John:
   Your good friend the schoolmaster Pat MacNamara
   So good as to write these words down
   Your brothers have all gone to find work in England
   The house is so empty and sad
   The crop of potatoes is sorely infected
   A third to a half of them bad
   And your sister Bridget and Patrick O'Donnell
   Are going to get married in June
   And your mother says not to work on the railroad
   And be sure to come on home soon.

   Kilkelly, Ireland eighteen and seventy, my dear and loving son John:
   Hello to your Mrs. and to your four children
   May they grow up healthy and strong
   Michael has got in a wee bit of trouble
   I suppose that he never will learn
   Because of the dampness there's no turf to speak of
   And now there's nothing to burn
   Bridget is happy you named the child for her,
   You know she's got six of her own
   You say you've found work but you don't say what kind
   And when will you be coming home?

   Kilkelly, Ireland eighteen and eighty dear Michael and John my sons:
   I'm sorry to give you the very sad news
   That your dear old mother passed on
   We buried her down at the church at Kilkelly
   Your brothers and Bridget were there
   You don't have to worry she died very quickly
   Remember her in your prayers
   And it's so good to hear that Michael's returning
   With money he's sure to buy land
   But the crop has been poor and people are selling
   At any price that they can.

   Kilkelly, Ireland eighteen and ninety my dear and loving son John:
   I suppose that I must be close on to eighty
   It's thirty years since you've been gone
   Because of all the money you sent me
   I'm still living out on my own
   Michael has built himself a fine house
   And Bridget's daughters are grown.
   And thank you for sending your family picture
   They're lovely young women and men
   You say you might even come for a visit
   What joy to see you again

   Kilkelly, Ireland eighteen and ninety-two my dear brother John:
   I'm sorry that I didn't write sooner
   To tell you Father passed on
   He was living with Bridget she said he was cheerful
   And healthy right up to the end
   You should have seen him playing with the grandchildren
   Of Pat MacNamara, your friend
   We buried him along side of Mother
   Down at the Kilkelly church yard
   He was a strong man, a feisty old man
   Considering his life was so hard
   And it's funny the way he kept talking about you
   He called for you at the end.
   Why don't you think about coming to visit
   We'd love to see you again..........

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: Gypsy
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:45 PM

When i was feeling blue one afternoon, back when we were taking care of the mother in law (in our home, for 4 1/2 years) i called my mother. You see, we have no children to care for us in age, and if we did, wouldn't put that particular load on them anyway. Me darling mither, who knows all, had recently read that in the US, about 80 percent of the population dies in their own home, unassisted. I'll take the 20% odds of ending up in a convalescent home. Not EVERYONE needs care at the end. Or wants it.
Sinsull, yer son's brains are just about ripe. I bet there is a turnaround in the next 5 years or so. My twenties weren't a very bright decade, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever wonder if you will end up old and a
From: GUEST,maire-aine
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:25 PM

We had a very interesting discussion about this last year. Attached is a link to being alone thread for people who may have missed it.

Maryanne