BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant

Subject: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Pied Piper
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 09:20 AM

I was interested to hear the fuss caused by the miss handling of the Koran in the US concentration camps in Cuba.
Apparently It's possible to offend some Muslims by mistreating a book. Now a book is just a collection of marks on paper, and has no meaning when it is not being read.
The assuming these people to members of the Taliban it seems that the Koran has to be treated with ridiculous respect but destroying a unique ancient Buddhist monument and murdering other (Sheit) Muslims is OK.
My question is how much tolerance should we have for intolerant people intent on forcing every body to adopt their religious views.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 09:30 AM

I was told this was the Golden rule:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 09:37 AM

None. I believe that it is important to respect the views and beliefs held by others, even if you do not agree with them. However, respect is a totally different thing from tolerance.

Tolerance, like intolerance, can be extremley dangerous when taken to extremes. If we tolerate bad behaviour of any kind it engenders boundaries being pushed back further. Respect allows for differing opinions, but does not allow for those opinions to over-ride our own.

On the question of the importance of the Koran - this is a holy book, containing the words of the prophet Mohammed, and, as such, I can understand why Muslims object to its misuse. Christians swear on the Bible, another collection of marks on paper, but which has a great deal of significance for the followers of that belief.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: mack/misophist
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 09:52 AM

Personally, I don't care for Islam but here's their answer to your question. The Koran receives the same mystical veneration the Bible got in Europe 3 or 4 hundred years ago. ie. The book itself was considered holy because of the contents. In the second case, human effigies are forbidden. Don't expect consistancy in the matter of pictures of Ayatollahs and the like. All people are good at lieing to themselves. The bottom line is that if you want to influence the Islamic world, you need to know enough about it to avoid pushing the wrong buttons.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 10:19 AM

The Muslim reaction to defiling the Koran is more understandable when you consider how some Americans react to burning the American flag.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 10:21 AM

"My question is how much tolerance should we have for intolerant people intent on forcing every body to adopt their religious views."

Not one damned bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:20 PM

I think you have been mislead, Pied Piper, by people with an axe to grind. The "fuss" you have referred to was a product of an ongoing and long term pattern of the use of humiliation, dehumanization, torture, and other forms of abuse that people who happen to be Muslims have been experiencing at the hands of those who claim to hold the moral high ground (the governments of the United States and Britain). The abuse of the Koran is only a very small part of a much larger picture.

These practices are wrong no matter who is using them. But we can't claim the moral high ground and feel superior to anyone if we are using them ourselves. And we are using them, and have been for a very long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:25 PM

BTW, you use of the term "concentration camps" is probably more apt than you realise. But it is also important to note that many of the people being held in these camps are not Taliban or Al Quaida, and have not been charged with any crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:42 PM

Carol C is tolerant of bad aromas in her trailer.

Along with tolerance of Al Quaida.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:50 PM

Martin Gibson IS a bad aroma. And has more in common with Al Quaida than he thinks; for example he believes in intimidation through force and abuse of persons as a means to his confused ends.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:54 PM

Go ahead and kill the thread, Martin. I don't have any problem with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:54 PM

The Weasel just put in an appearance. Don't let him make this thread all about him. Ignore him!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:57 PM

I don't take meds Amos. I am just intoleant of much of the stupid things you are tolerant of. Not everything, of course.

Looks like you are not nearly as tolerant as you think you are. You sure are not tolerant of people who disagree with you. Or tolerant of people who don't put up with your pseudo-intellectual crap.

In fact you are about as tolerant as George Bush is with people who don't agree with him.

(A hush decends upon Mudcat as Amos is compared directly with the man on this planet that he hates the most. What will Amos do? Will he show the greatest surge of tolerance he has ever shown in his life, or will his head pop with force of a giant enema, completely splattering everyone in the room)

but c'mon amos, let's see how tolerant you are.

Are you tolerant of people like yourself breaking the law and using drugs? The Supreme Court just banned pot for medicinal use. Now you have no more excuses.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 01:00 PM

No tolerance from don Firth and all of the others who preach it.

Phonies! Fakes!

Tolerance for their own dirty underpants only!

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 01:08 PM

Martin:

It bewilders me how you can believe half the crap you write about me. You come up with these flailing accusations with no grounds, you have no idea what the referents are that you pretend to be talking about, and you end up just shooting off huge wads of hot air.

What is it exactly that you think I am phony about?

Noone here has refused to tolerate your extremist notions, except when you indulge in virulent abuse of others. If anyone has acted intolerant on this site, it is your own sweet, misunderstood, overwhelmed self.

You have my sympathy, amigo. And my tolerance. But your rabid abuses do not.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 01:25 PM

How much tolerance should we have of those who are apparantly intolerant of a billion people because of the misdeeds of a few thousand or maybe a few million?

The publicity over the desecration of the Koran is obviously propaganda. It is intended to take narrow minds of the many real greivances the rioters might have had with the US, including torture and illegal detainment in the name of "democracy" and "justice".

I'm not in any way condoning terrorism or the actions of the Taliban, but the thing is that the US has not proven that many of the detainees are terrorists or Taliban.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 01:33 PM

He doesn't believe any of it, Amos. He's just doing what his puppetmasters tell him to do, so they can have a few laughs at his expense. He doesn't realize how idiotic they're making him look.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 01:48 PM

If I am intolerant of you, Marty, it's because you are intolerant of anybody and everybody who doesn't agree with you or who finds your antisocial behavior distasteful. Hell, Marty, when it comes to intolerance, you are the Champion of Nine Galaxies!

Bloody hypocrite!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 02:12 PM

Unfortunatly Carol - Martin is used to the laughter - it's something he's heard all of his life. From the other boys in the locker room in Junior High, the women he first made feebly attepts to date, to his boss when he asks for a raise, and especially his wife when he tries to exert any authority around the house. So our laughter falls on deaf ears.

That won't stop us from laughing at him anyway.

Oh well. He'll probably post another message pretending to be me again. I don't blame him - it's the closest he gets to rational thought.

And now - back to our adult conversation.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 02:23 PM

No, back to MY conversation, sleepless Dad

first, look at don firth or filth if I may. his post of 12:54:

"Ignore him!"

Yep, that's don back again finding it impossible to not ignore me at 1;48. what did he do for that hour? My suspicion is that he was on the toilet reading Mad magazine.

Ignore him? talk about hypocracy.

Laugh all you want, pal. I just don't hear it. What I see is a bunch of responses that are anything but laughter. what I see is a few goons who are really, really pissed off and they sure aren't laughing.

Tsk, tsk. Such intolerance for a little bit of fun. If you were laughing, I would think it would be just a little more obvious.

Nope, no laughter out of this bunch of enema squirters.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 02:42 PM

Tolerating people doesn't mean you have to approve of them or like them; it just means you're willing to let them live in their own way. That's as long as they let you live in your own way.

In other words, one should tolerate & respect anyone's beliefs, but you only have to tolerate those actions of theirs that interfere with your life.

And be sure that the actions do interfere with your life, not with your special priveleges. Or your inflated opinion of yourself.

Respect the Muslim feelings about the Koran; don't let them tell you how to treat the Bible or your first edition of Dianetics.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 02:52 PM

There you are, Marty, wallowing in the toilet again. Your natural habitat.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 03:12 PM

I suppose we should be flattered though, if the people giving Martoon his marching orders are so afraid of us that they have to send in a patsy to take their drubbings for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 03:12 PM

You don't really piss anyone off, Martin Gibson. If you arouse any emotion at all in people, it's a mixture of disgust and pity. And you're not fooling anyone by constantly harping on how much fun you're having. It's obvious that you're desperate for attention and you don't care how you get it or what kind of attention it is, you just have to have it, because what you call your "real life" is so terribly lonely.

(Now watch him blither about how happy and fulfilling his "real life" is. Fat chance!)

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 03:48 PM

Perhaps this is a good chance to show toleration in practice - rather than yet another excuse to descend again to same level of those who undertake the name-calling?

Perhaps it is good chance to resist the temptation to post simply to join in the witch-hunt with others and to pass judgement on fellow posters who are thought to be easy targets?

If you still do choose to litter up our forum with these responses - please do us all a favour and don't attempt to hold the moral-high ground and think your name-calling to be superior.

Generally tolerating the intolerant - even if you cannot respect them - is possibly the only choice we have in most situations? Unless your real intention is to make matters even worse.........?

Subject: RE: BS: Tolerance and the Intolerant
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 03:55 PM

Hi Don. done any ignoring lately?

What a riot!

sure, sure Casual observer, whatever you say. You have it all figured out.

except for one thing. You are 100% wrong. Actually 110%. Lighten up.

OK? thanks.

Be tolerant. Are you tolerant of Don's hypocritical way of ignoring? I am. I just wish he would have as much fun as I do.