Radio BRITFOLK hits the net

Subject: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 02:03 PM

A new kind of internet radio station is now completing its field trials and is about to go "public" by starting a 3-month fully functioning licenced trial: RadioBritfolk ("the best of songs tunes and stories, ancient and modern, from all the
British islands").

Britfolk aims to offer much more background than conventional stations, and will operate something akin to an on-line folk festival - with 'Main Stage'-type shows (similar to ones you'll hear on other radio stations), Session-type shows, (which will showcase lesser-known music and artists - often with a strong local slant), and Workshop-type shows (how to play an instrument etc), which you wouldn't hear on other stations. We also aim to offer a balance of music from around these islands, both traditional and new.
The web pages will also offer background information, pictures, chat, archives and links, for those who want to carry out research, or contribute in some other way.

The station is owned by folkWISE, a limited company run by performers for the benefit of performers, which aims to support and encourage professional folk artists from Wales, Ireland, Scotland and England in all aspects of their work and career.

Its list of founding members includes many of the luminaries of British folk: Ben Sands, Brian Heywood (chair), Anne Lister, Dave Evardson (treasurer), Gavin Atkin, Pete McClelland, Jez Lowe, Kate Bramley (funding), Tom Bliss (co-ordinator), Phil Snell (programming), Eddie Walker, Sylvia Needham (membership), Tim Moon, Keith Kendrick, Vicki Swan (user support), Anahata, Dick Gaughan, Shep Woolley, Alistair Hulett, Anne Lennox-Martin, Karine Polwart, Shanty Jack, Tom and Barbara Brown, Pete Castle, Genevieve Tudor, Cath Mundy, Jay Turner, Pete Coe (original idea), Mike Freeman, Elaine Samuels, Jacey Bedford (exec)- oh, and a fat Greek too (though people like Tom Bliss, Jacey and Anahata have been involved far longer than myself).

Listening costs nothing. For more facilities you can also become a Normal Member, which will cost £2 a month and will give you access to the discussion forum, reviews, last week's shows, and the permanent programme archive. This will be very useful if, for example, you are following a workshop series, and miss a show. Full membership will cost £5 a month, and allow you also to add listings and news on line. This will be of benefit to performers, promoters and agents. But I repeat - it costs nothing to simply listen.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: 12string growler
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 03:07 PM

Let me wish you every success in this venture.
How many folkies does it take to start a radio station?

Loads

Good on you all

Chris

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Morticia
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 03:10 PM

thanks for the heads up, George

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 03:19 PM

Cool.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: My guru always said
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 04:13 PM

Oooeerrr!! Exciting stuff!!!

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: GUEST,Fullerton
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 04:18 PM

Fantastic idea im going to listen NOW!!

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: rhyzla
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:03 PM

I remember reading about this when I used to monitor the folkwise message board (as a member) a few months ago. I'm really pleased it is going to happen, and I will certainly be keen to listen and become a member.

Thanks for highlighting it , George.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 07:37 PM

Just put one of my old tracks up on the billboard programme (active from 1st July)

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Dave Masterson
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 08:25 AM

Thanks for the info George – looks like it will be a great site – with some heavyweights of the folk world backing it (not a comment on your girth!).

By the way, Eileen and I caught your gig at Faversham a few months back, thoroughly enjoyed it. Sorry we didn't come up to say 'Kalispera' but we were both knackered from decorating our dining room at the time and just wanted to crawl home to bed. Next time we'll make ourselves known.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 06:05 AM

I've put some reviews up and two songs on the Billboard (which is already active, by the way)

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 06:14 AM

Great idea! Its a start.   I believe in starts - as the guy in the committments said.
Can't be long till we get our first tv station. which is what we're really all waiting for.

can you get it on DAB - if you can only get it online its not really going to attract that many people - think how many times you switch the radio off when something you hate comes on - and theres plenty of that even in the acoustic world - we all have our bind spots.

anyway could you listen to it while chatting on mudcat?

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Dave4Guild
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 06:59 AM

Nice one, George!! It's on my desk-top already

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 07:11 AM

No DAB - yet. Though I wouldn't count it out for the future, initially the focus is on internet; podcasting will probably come next, to allow downloading to personal gadgets.

The thing with Britfolk is that it is not a single stream of music. The menu will contain (changing every week):
- A minimum 7 hours worth of Listen on Demand individual 30-minute programmes (specials, workshops etc) produced by folk music professionals such as the names I mentioned above, plus many more others.
- Up to 3 hours' worth of streaming music (non-interruptible, so a bit like a normal radio station) - the "Billboard". However, this programme is randomised, so that every time you click to listen you will get the three hours' worth in a different sequence!

And yes, you can listen to it while you do other things on the computer, as I am doing now.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 07:44 AM

I should add that:

- Anyone can make a programme for RadioBritfolk (though they should not be self-promotional); technical and content guidelines for this are included in the FAQs. Make your proposals for it, and the chances are it will be accepted. We are using a very wide definition of "folk", though we intend to focus on British folk (rather than US, or World Music). Having said that, crossovers will no doubt happen (like Martyn W-R's Songlinks material; and I will be putting some of my Greek-inspired stuff on the Billboard, like "Vassiliki" or "Memories of Salonika").

- Anyone can get their music played on RadioBritfolk, in either of two ways: a) Send your music to one of the regular presenters (like you would for normal radio), or b) Have it included in the "Billboard" streaming programme, for a mere £3 per track per week (or £10 for 4 track-weeks). Easy payment by PayPal. This second option allows anyone to bypass the presenters' selection process if they so wish, and will provide some funding for the station.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: John J
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 08:38 AM

I'm listening as I type: excellent!

Well done and good luck for the future.

John

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 10:54 AM

the e-mails I have are describing a podcast. Links on my site soon, for sure.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 08:42 AM

George--

Sounds wonderful. Thanks so much for this info--it's just great to hear this--particularly for me, since I won't be able to be at Sidmouth this year (suppose I shouldn't complain--my group will be singing in Brazil and Argentina while Sidmouth is going on)-- but I'll really miss Sidmouth.   And I was really torn. Meanwhile this reminds me so much of it, especially the singarounds and the Prom.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 10:05 AM

I'm listening to it right now El Greko. The South Bank show...no sign of Melvyn Bragg anywhere...phew! ;0) It's great..have put it on my 'favourites' list.

Brilliant name..Radio Britfolk....Brilliant idea!

Hope it all goes well. There'll be no work done anywhere in the country tomorrow as people start tuning in and the work starts to pile up right across the nation.

I've just heard 'Three Score Years And Ten' and am listening to the history of the song at the present. Loads of information with each song. Thanks for letting us know about it.

Good heavens!! I've just heard the saucy song 'Cottage For Sale'...I'm not saying a WORD!! ;0) Loads of giggling going on in that room. Then...sorry I can't stop listening and typing....I've just heard Shanty Jack....Oh boy...and Stormalong John is singing on this too..well that's it...I'm totally hooked now! This is almost Radio for pirates isn't it? Swoon! ;0)

Oh no..we're putting in a new kitchen today and himself has just told me that he's got to turn the power off!!! What torture!!!....Fisherman....Boats.Grimsby Town and now I've got to leave! Any minute now Major Sharpe is about to appear over the hill and I'm going to miss him! :0( .....I'll be back later to listen to the whole show.

I'm sorry....but WHO is Mike Harding???? What is the BBC????

Give me Radio Britfolk everytime!

Pirates Radio! ;0)

Lizzie :0)

PS...I'm leaving this just as Liam Duffy is starting to sing.....sob!

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Singing Referee
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 10:50 AM

Just tuned in for the first time, sounds great. Just a quick snatch for now, but I can see me getting addicted.!

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: nutty
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 08:41 PM

My sentiments are the same as the previous post ....this could become addictive. Congratulations to all involved.

ONE PROBLEM ...... I can only get audio when using Internet Explorer, I hope that will change and that other browsers will be supported.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 09:06 PM

There is certainly a problem with the pre-release version; I've contacted them about it. I suspect that they haven't set MIME type definitions on the server, which always creates problems for non-microsoft browsers; and that the use of scripting instead of direct links to audio files is also making things difficult (existing browser plugins not being recognised, and the workaround involving opening the media file in the appropriate standalone program not working).

With luck, they'll sort that out before the official launch on July 1st. It would be a pity if they had only tested their setup in IE on windows-based systems. I gather that there are also problems for Linux users.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Crystal
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 04:22 AM

Fantastic!
Will you be doing advertising of festivals and the like?

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 04:52 AM

Well the power came back on and so did Radio Britfolk! I finished listening to South Bank and loved every minute of it. Liam Duffy has a great voice and Dogger Bank was fantastic.

Do you do requests?

Hopefully sometime today I'll get to hear the other shows too. Brilliant idea guys! Good luck with it all.

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: kitchen piper
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 05:14 AM

Hello!
Just found this thread! So much interest already! The site is still under development and being tested at the moment, so please bare that in mind!

I noticed a few questions about listneing to the audio. It's been a long journey with all the licensing issues and funding. In a nut shell, until Radio Britfolk has < exaggerate > billions < /e > of logged in users a streaming server can't be afforded. So ways round this have had to be worked out. I know that Phil has spent weeks and weeks building and designing and toiling and sweating over this and deserves a millions pints of beer! It's been done using embedded and hidden code stuff (very geeky) ... I'm wittering ... I'll get back on track....

As George said I've offered to do some support stuff, I am a mac user so for PC stuff it sometimes might take me a few moments to get answers. In a nut shell I can tell you that if you're software is basically up todate there should be no problem. Real Player works best for me, but you do need to be up to date.

As a mac user I use Quicktime for mp3. There is an issue with QT7. If you have QT7 the mp3 won't work. I don't know why, but I'm hoping it's a bug that will be fixed soon!!!! Downgrading to QT6 makes it work just fine. Here is a link for QT for PC

So far this QT7 issue is the only problem that has come through to me. No-one else has said they have any problems. So once you've checked to make sure that you're up to date and it still doesn't work, then PM me.

Happy Listening!
:-)
Vicki

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: kitchen piper
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 05:22 AM

It would be a pity if they had only tested their setup in IE on windows-based systems.

The radio has been tested on as may browsers and as many machines as possible. I've had all the audio working on all my browsers on mac. We've requested feedback from as many people as possible, and not had many problems at all. The only one that took a day to track down was the QT7 one.

If there are some problems and you can help or need help, PM me!

:-))
Vicki

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 05:36 AM

I'm running Mac OS X and have got audio working with Safari, IE6 and Opera. What I cannot achieve, though, is getting the media player revealed in order to be able to access different bits. Any ideas? And will you be putting up playlists with timings?

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: kitchen piper
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 06:09 AM

Hello!
I can only get the media player to reveal itself using real. Because of the license only non PRS music will be able to be started and stopped, otherwise it's just a listen straight through job. I'm still working on finding out why I can't get the mp3 to work properly or getting the billboard to work in anything other than safari. As I said before, we're still testing!
:-)
Vicki

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: treewind
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 10:54 AM

As you know (if you got my email Vicki), it's stopped working for Linux+Firefox+RealPlayer/Helix, I think since it changed from a download to a streaming system after going public.

Someone posted to news:uk.music.folk with the same problem.
BBC's "listen again" works on my system, so I suspect there's a server side problem here.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 11:51 AM

They have not done the browser permutations fully. I use IE5.5 at home and can't see several pages like FAQ's. I had to go to the library and use braodband/NT5/IE6 - to get the missing pages. Micro$oft did a lot to standardise then muck it all up again in the name of dollar$. It is anarchy out there. And real players come in how many versions? I run Win98 SE (+SP2) with WinPlayer 9 - try that for a permutation.

FWIW if they are reading this - I know people running Folk Festivals who would want to join for the publicity but some of them still run Win95 and they don't even know enough to tell me what browser (assume IE4.0)

Folkies are luddites by definition. Not all, but statistically enough to make me think about the problem. I usually ask for people to test my pages here because folkies are a helpful lot also.

Thanks Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 12:36 PM

Thanks, Vicki. Yes, the whole lot works brilliantly with Safari including the Billboard which opens up automatically in iTunes. Confirms my belief that the entire world should run Mac OS X. Win/IE (in common with diatonic instruments) gives me a headache . . .

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: treewind
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 03:05 PM

Oi! Leave diatonic instruments out of this...
Win/IE doesn't give me a headache, but only because I haven't used that combination for a very long time.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: GUEST,Hen Harrier
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 11:19 PM

Can't get continuous playing with Real Player on this (or anything else!).
Using Windows 98/IE.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 11:28 PM

Countess--

I second the motion--I also have Mac OS X--and it works brilliantly for BRITFOLK.

After agonizing with Mr. Gates for 3 years (including 1 1/2 years of his double-charging me and another 1 1/2 to get the money back--and Macroslop still owes my mother 6 months double-charge)--I've left Mr. Gates in the dust forever.

It's night and day.



BRITFOLK is exactly what a folk show should be--entertaining (even witty), informative---and with a blessed absence of navel-gazers.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: GUEST,Hermia
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 07:03 AM

Can it be downloaded as streaming never works on my woefully slow internet connection?

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: treewind
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 07:47 AM

Some of the material cannot be downloaded (but can be streamed) because of licensing restrictions.
(Well, it can or there are ways round it, but the software has to be designed so it can't be done by simple user choice)

Britfolk Radio is making considerable effort to keep all its broadcast activities on the right side of copyright legislation.

I believe similar restrictions are the reason why on BBC "listen again" you can't rewind the player; you can only step step forward in jumps of 5 or 15 minutes.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: kitchen piper
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:04 AM

"Can't get continuous playing with Real Player on this (or anything else!). Using Windows 98/IE."

Have you checked that your real player is updated? I think there was a new version released recently, there was for OSX.
:-)
VIcki

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: GUEST,KingBrilliant
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:45 AM

FANTASIC!!!!

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: webfolk
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 10:49 AM

silen 't' in ha hread conribuion was here kingbrillian?

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 03:51 PM

On the BillBoard now:

Vikings        (Jez Lowe and the Bad Pennies)
Thirteen Florins on the Bar (Mike Sparks)
One More Pull (Graeme Knights)
Life As Usual (George Papavgeris)
Hops and Steps & Quick and Merry (Florida)
Do your duty (Anne Lennox-Martin Band)
Father Christmas down Hounslow High St (Robb Johnson)
Someone waits for me (Les Sullivan)
You and your golden Vanity (Jez Lowe and the Bad Pennies
Lincolnshire Song (Miranda Sykes)
Lady in the East (Tom Napper Tom Bliss)
WayFaring Stranger (the Friendly Visit)
The Casquets Light (Tom Napper Tom Bliss)
Fanny Poer (Jon Hayward Alistair Gillies)
Living on the stilts (George Papavgeris)
House Carpenter (Friendly Visit)
Farewell Shanty (Johnny Collins)
Hector the Hero (Vicki Swan & Jonny Dyer)

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 05:05 PM

it can be downloaded as a BIG MP3 ... 53 megs....I suggest using the FREE Media Player Classic,which will play 'almost' any format you are likely to encounter. I have not opened Windows Media Player or Real Audio in a couple of years, since there are many, many better alternatives now that do not include all the spyware and ads. (JetAudio is also a wonderful way to access these programs, but it is a 'bit' more complex to learn to manipulate.)


......and the station/program is wonderful!

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Carol
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 03:11 AM

Just found this and it's good!!

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 02:52 AM

Had a listen on my new pc got Dave and Julie Evardson, thanks to Email from Susz at Gainsborough, just found Mudcat thread!

Best of luck
Ray Padgett

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: treewind
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 05:35 AM

Simple Mozilla Firefox question:

Has anyone got the billboard page's background music to play when viewing the site with Firefox (on any flaour of Windows or any other platform for that matter)

I've just notced I'm getting the same problem (pluging needed...not found) with Firefox on W98SE

Anahata

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: GUEST,KingBrillian
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:15 AM

mus've drank it, webfolk!

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Alan Day
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 04:00 PM

I would be grateful if you would explain to me your Billboard policy.
I can understand the format and your play time arrangement.What would concern me is if the following occured,that
A You generate so much interest that the site was swamped with recordings some you may have to listen for days before you hear them.
B That you received a lot of very bad recordings,even by unknown artists paying to get on your site and switching off in droves due to the poor quality of recordings being played.
Please do not think that I am trying to critisise your site I am not,I am for anything which promotes our interest and I do not want it to fail.
Al

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 03:48 AM

Al,

although the process of uploading onto the server a track intended for the Billboard is automated, the track is not automatically linked to the Billboard itself - that needs manual intervention, and so there is an opportunity for the editorial team to review such tracks and decide if it needs to be ignored and the money refunded because, say, it is peddling ideas that are against common decency or downright illegal (hatemongering, excessive use of gratuitous prafanity, religious intolerance etc).

Inevitably the use of editorial powers depends on personal interpretation and even taste or tolerance levels. But I believe and hope that you will find our use of editorial powers in that respect to be no worse than that of any any radio/TV station or newspaper/magazine, and probably more lax than most (we do not propose to allow PC-madness to restrict some of the fine traditional material, for example).

That leaves the matter of quality that you mention. Here we will need to hold back our personal tastes and allow even some "crap" material through; after all it is the individual's right to advertise their wares, no matter what we think. But if we get a deluge of such "crap" we may need to ration it out, spread it across different weeks etc. No doubt some will still accuse the editorial team (just like Mike Harding et al) of being "elitist" or exercising personal taste to excess; or of allowing too much "crap" through. It is a very fine line that any editorial team has to tread between upholding someone's right to be heard and keeping the quality level of broadcast material high. Only time will show if we are doing it right. Personally, I trust those involved and their judgement to make the best of what is traditionally a bad job.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 04:03 AM

Al,

I just realised that I did not answer part A of your question (what happens if we get so many tracks that you have to listen for days before you hear them):

This is no different to any normal (not internet based) radio station, where you only tune in for part of a programme. But we hope that many people will listen to it for the full 3 hours, and so will get to hear all the tracks.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Alan Day
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 07:05 AM

Many thanks for your response.
We are currently waiting on release of Anglo International and may well use your site in the near future.
Al

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: sapper82
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:12 AM

Been listening for a couple of weeks now and have just joined.
Excellent site.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: JohnB
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 11:34 AM

Bloody marvelous, I am listening on straight dial up connection in rural Ontario Canada, not had a drop out yet.
Good Luck with the project, I will spread the word with the folky crowd I know over here.
JohnB

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 12:03 PM

Thanks, folks - and it's going to get even better.
Thanks for joining sapper82; we need people to become members, to keep going. All the effort going into it is volunteered at the moment, including much of the programming. But we still need to cover server hosting costs, some software licences, and more important, copyright licencing.

So - join up; pay $3 to have your song played on the Billboard for a week; and spread the word.

By the way, Andy Kershaw is our patron. For the non-UKers, Andy is a big force for folk (and for good) on British radio.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Drystone
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 11:49 AM

Sapper 82 - has your membership been activated yet?

I joined over a week ago but still can't log on - not sure if it's a problem just with my membership / payment, or if the website is so overwhelmed with new members that activation's taking a long time.   I just wondered how you had fared.

Cheers

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 12:04 PM

There should not be such a delay. Please contact the webmaster (Phil Snell), his email address is available on the site in the case of such delays.

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Drystone
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 12:39 PM

That was fast!    Thanks for the advice, George.

While you were writing that, I was emailing the 'General Enquiries' part of the Radio Britfolk contact page, just in case the person dealing with Membership enquiries has been ill or otherwise out of action.    I'll give the person dealing with general enquiries a chance to reply, then if there's no joy after the weekend I'll contact Phil.    Unless Phil is 'General Enquiries' in which case I've just done as you suggested.

Thanks again,

Joy

Subject: RE: Radio BRITFOLK hits the net
From: Drystone
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 07:03 PM

Don't know if it's something you did George, or whether my emails did the trick at last, but Tom Bliss has been in touch and my memberships are both activated now.

Thanks again

Joy