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BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Rapparee Date: 16 Mar 06 - 10:43 PM Once upon a time, before Idaho disappeared, the land that came to be known as "Idaho" was flat as Kansas or Saska...Saksa...the province to the right of Alberta as you face North. It was, geology has shown, a high, flat, plain and rather boring from end to end. Then came the potato. What is known to only a few -- it's kept secret by the US Dept. of Agriculture and you'll learn why in just a minute -- is that potatoes are not vegetables!! Potatoes are actually a sightless, subterranean parasite much like a nemotode. Potatoes take their nutrients from the roots of what we call the "potato plant" or "potato vine". Potatoes will travel many miles (or kilometers in Canada or England or Ireland) to latch onto the roots of this plant, much like leeches do to warm-blooded creatures. The potato will suck the life from the plant if permitted to do so. Potatoes were indigenous through the Idaho Plateau. There were literally millions of the critters, and when humans began planting potato plants the potatoes were of course attracted to their primary food source. But humans didn't plant the potato plants evenly. No, they concentrated them in farms, in areas convenient to the humans. Thus the potatoes, generation after generation, migrated to what was, to them, a cheap and easy food source. But when the potatoes migrated nothing moved in behind them to fill the underground space that was vacated. Gradually, the land caved in, filling in the areas once full of potatoes. In many areas of Idaho this migration was so great, the swarms of potatoes so huge, that eventually the rocky "spines" underground were all that was left, and humans coming later thought that Idaho had always been covered with mountains. This is a simple explanation, of course. You can read the entire story in Larribee's definitive work, Idaho Geology: The Challenge of the Potato (Moscow, Idaho: University of Idaho Press, 1947). Of course, the U of I no longer exists but you might find the book in some library somewhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Don Firth Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:50 PM Last time I tried to look a potato in the eyes, I felt like I was trying to stare down Marty Feldman. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:32 PM Darn! Well, I should be relieved, I guess. I was almost ready to go for that deal. ;-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: frogprince Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:18 PM Accidentally learned from the "tube" last night that almost all potatoes for chips (U.S. type chips) are grown in Pennsylvania. But that may be just since Idaho disappeared. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Peace Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:07 PM LOL However, BE WARNED: Don't take it on the road in Idaho. It ain't there. As Rapaire said, people have been vanishing lots lately. And truthfully, when's the last time a potato looked you straight in the eyes and said, "I am from Idaho!" Aha, thought so . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Don Firth Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:03 PM Sorry, Little Hawk, the deal's off. My conscience got to bothering me. I mean, after all, you're a good bloke, and if I were to lumber you with that mini-act, I would be cheating you. The thing is a total fraud! That stupid canary can't sing a note. The mouse is a ventriloquist. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Don Firth Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:00 PM Aha, Peace, I found it! Cities in Flight, four novels in one volume, by James Blish. Due to the good offices of my wife, Barbara, who works at the Seattle Public Library and used her skills to organize our bookshelves, it was sitting amid other novels by James Blish, just to the right of a couple of novels by Alfred Bester. 600+ pages. I may be "spaced out" for awhile. And, Little Hawk, thanks for the offer on the swampland and the bridge. I'll check it out with my broker and see what he thinks (I call him "my broker" because "broker" is what he would keep me if I let him). But let me run this past you: perhaps we could work a swap. The swampland and the bridge for a neat little "mini-act" I have. It consists of a mouse, a tiny grand piano, and a canary. The mouse wears white tie and tails and plays the little grand piano. The canary wears an itty-bitty tiara and a gold lame evening gown, and stands in the incurve of the piano with the tips of her little wings clasped. They don't do any folk music, unfortunately, except for some gussied-up concert versions, but they have a big repertoire of opera, lieder, Broadway show tunes, pop songs from all eras, and a whole bunch of novelty songs. If you were to take this little act on the road, you could probably make a fortune! Think it over and let me know. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Rapparee Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:42 PM So, if you're driving from Alberta south to Salt Lake City or Elko, when you get to the border with the US you just softly and silently vanish away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: rock chick Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:39 PM I must be careful what i say or they may cart me away in a straight jacket!! mind you they may do that anyway ;o)) Seriously though, I say anything is possible and if it gives you faith and helps you lead a better life then go with it, providing it harms no one in the process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Don Firth Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:28 PM The Cities in Flight series by James Blish. Great stuff, Peace! I read the series as separate novels back in the Sixties. I think I have them around here somewhere and they definitely merit re-reading. Mind-boggling! Thanks for the reminder! I saw a science program on the tube a few of weeks ago where a couple of heavy-duty physicist were discussing possible space drives. One of the things they talked about was using a rapidly rotating mass to control gravity waves. Sounds a bit like Blish's "spindizzy" antigravity device. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:18 PM Well that settles it. There is no Idaho. I looked in Jeff's list and it's not there, so it can't possibly exist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Bill D Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:15 PM awww..shucks. Jeff, who makes icons ,wants to charge for some. The states list is free, but you seem to have to go in the front door. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Peace Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:12 PM Idaho has been kidnapped. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:09 PM If it didn't exist, someone would be compelled to invent it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:09 PM This is what I found in your link, Bill... Forbidden You don't have permission to access /71354/LK-Idaho.gif on this server. Maybe Idaho really doesn't exist. I'm not too surprised, actually. I know I've never seen it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Bill D Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:02 PM I can't find one of Atlantis...doesn't that prove...ummmm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Bill D Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:01 PM sure it does |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Rapparee Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:42 PM I'm not completely sure that I believe Idaho exists, much less Atlantis. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Mar 06 - 09:15 PM "Has it been definitively established that there never was a place called "Atlantis", then?" If you know anything about reading Plato, how and why he wrote what he did then, yes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 08:38 PM Ummm...I mean, would I lie to you? Well, whaddya think? Of course I wouldn't! My word is my bond and my generosity is legendary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 08:36 PM You'll change your mind, Don, if you come up to Orillia, Ontario. I have a little swamp out here in the woods that I am willing to part with for a song...well, not literally, but a surprisingly low price! Yes indeed. And who would ever guess that beneath this little swamp is rumored to be hidden...Captain Kidd's pirate gold! Would I like to you? Of course not. Then there's the bridge. It's near here, and it's a lovely antique bridge over the Coldwater River near beautiful downtown Coldwater. This picturesque reminder of our small town heritage can be had for a mere $30,000...payable in small unmarked bills. But hurry! I can't promise that these items will last long, not at these prices. I'm practically GIVING THEM AWAY! I'm giving you this hot tip because I'm a friend, and that's what friends are for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Peace Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:39 PM Don, I expect that you would enjoy reading James Blish's "Cities in Flight". It's a novel (made up of four novels) and there is a gang of neat stuff in it. Starts with a team building a bridge on Saturn (?). The bridge goes nowhere, but there is much more going on than that. It is sci-fi, but IMO one of the ten best ever written. I know that ain't yer bag, but just maybe . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Don Firth Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:35 PM Gawd, Bill, that brings back memories. I had a close relative who was into all of that stuff. If anybody questioned any of it, she would lapse into this smug, all-knowing smile and mutter something about "concrete-bound." I became fascinated with the "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" comic strip in the Sunday funnies when I was about six years old, and have been a heavy-duty science-fiction fan ever since. Whole bookshelves full of Asimov, Heinlein, Edmond Hamilton, all those guys, and on into many of the more recent ones, plus often attending science-fiction conventions, meeting authors, taking in workshops. Jerry Pournelle and I used to be drinking-buddies. I have a couple of half-written science-fiction novels just waiting for me to get back to them (gotta do some up-dating, though). Never missed a single episode of Star Trek, except a couple episodes of Enterprise after it started getting a bit tedious (main thing that kept me watching was Jolene Blalock in a cat-suit; love women with pointy ears; madly in love with Galadriel, too). Science fact also. I rarely miss an episode of Nova, watch the Discovery Channel a lot, and I devour books by people like Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan, and Michio Kaku. I can let my mind hurtle through vast expanses of space and time, and speculate endlessly on an infinity of possibilities. No lack of imagination. But I never buy swampland or bridges. At least, I haven't yet. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Rapparee Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:04 PM To get back to the thread title, yes, I believe in God because it's damned sure that somebody Up There is out to get me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:39 PM There's enough stuff on zetatalk, Bill, to keep you amused for eons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:36 PM Bill, you are entirely too gullible. We're going to have to do something about that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Bill D Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:32 PM hey! you want Atlantis? I got info right here! pictures 'n maps & such of related stuff How & why & when wow...I found it using Google, so it must be true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Peace Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:58 PM 47 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:05 PM Oh, there are...no question about that. It beats hell out of doing your tax return, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:00 PM I'm the one LAYING those tracks.... Follow them if you dare! :-P Heh " It seems more probable to me that we are spirits..." Really? Well, we puts our money on the table, where we think it'll do the most good eh.... At least you show glimmers from time to time of knowing you are sat AT the table with the rest of us..... Unlike the ones who are laying twitching at our feet, hallucinating they are soaring around the rafters... This post gives me an ice-cream headache..... I'm gonna go see if there are any pictures of pretty young naked women on the internet.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:57 PM make a left at Narnia and bear right when you pass Oz and you will find Atlantis |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:54 PM Then lie down on the tracks, would you? ;-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:52 PM I'm not convinced there's a freight train either... ,-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:51 PM If I am wrong, Clinton, it won't matter. I won't know I was wrong. I'll just be dead. I wouldn't mind that in the least, frankly. It would be like going to sleep. Sounds nice. I don't believe in an afterlife because I have to have one to look forward to in order to be happy. I don't worry about it. I don't care. Either way is absolutely fine with me. Oblivion/non-existence or a conscious afterlife...either way is perfectly all right, as far as I'm concerned. I gradually came to believe in an afterlife (after many years of believing in no such thing) simply because, based on a lot of different personal experiences and info I came across, it began to seem much more likely to me than no afterlife. No other reason than that. It seems more probable to me that we are spirits temporarily building and inhabiting a body than bodies temporarily manifesting life which then ceases to be upon the body's death. I owe this impression to no particular religion. In fact, religion has little or nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: number 6 Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:38 PM "Life as Holocaust analogy?" huh .... I didn't mean it that way ... when our day is through, we get on the old freight train to take us home. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:33 PM Life as Holocaust analogy? If you wanna live yours like that, go right ahead... I don't see the need myself.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: number 6 Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:26 PM I'm with you on that CH ... why worry, why speculate, think more about the 'now' cause that's what is ... anyway you'll find out where that freight train is going when they throw you onto the car. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:21 PM What if you are? Think of all the time you've wasted preparing for something that never happens... I'll let the 'after' sort itself out, especially until I have ANY good evidence that says there might BE any 'after'... If there turns out to be an 'after', I'll deal with it when I get there..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:56 PM Death is gonna get my body, in the end. But what if I am not solely my physical body? Then what? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:51 PM "others are naturally enthusiastic about the hypothetical" Talk 'what if' all you want... what IS gonna get ya in the end.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:46 PM No, I don't think it justifies any high level of certainty, I just think it's interesting and should not be rejected out of hand. You see, most people still tend to believe what they want to believe. And that determines which side of the argument they will immediately rush to support whenever something like this is mentioned. They have an emotional predilection either toward or against the unconventional or the unusual or the "unconfirmed". That's what's interesting. Why are some people more comfortable only with the confirmed while others are naturally enthusiastic about the hypothetical? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Bill D Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:46 PM "They may have had ancient maps of Atlantis. They may have had written records of contact. They may have had artifacts."...right, 10,000 years old. That's a lot of maybes... I have a lot of respect for what those clever old Greeks did, but their civilization was not AT that level for all those centuries. Someone had to MAKE clear records, someone had to PRESERVE the records, someone had to translate and remember what they were about, and relate the data to reality. They 'may' have had past lives who lived there and channeled memories of the street plans....but, like I said, I wouldn't hold my breath till we are sure. Do you **really** think that what Plato said justifies any high level of certainty? A legend may be loosely based on 'some' reality, but legends are embroidered..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Don Firth Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:36 PM "Methuselah lived nine-hundred years. . . ." According to the Book of Genesis, 5:27: And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died. That may be regarded by some as "The Word of God," but it doth stretch mine credibility, and probably thine as well. I think they had some fairly fuzzy ways of measuring time back in those days (and "those days"—Biblical times—overlap the age of the Greek philosophers). And this, of course lent some equally fuzzy time-lines to legends, such as the legend of Atlantis. The Greeks, especially those of the Aristotelian persuasion, were a lot more precise, having made a number of basic scientific discoveries that still hold up pretty well today, and were pretty amazing considering how little, beyond their own observation and intelligence, they had to work with (no Hubble telescopes or computers). But I think Plato's estimate of when Atlantis sank was probably something in the nature of "one helluva long time ago." Then, when somebody asked, "Well, how long ago?" the answer he came up with was a wild guess. 1,500 years? 15,000 years? Remember, "myriad," a rather imprecise term meaning "approximately 10,000" was a commonly used word to indicate "I don't know how many, but a whole bunch!" And the same goes for distances. Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote a lot of stuff about what was going on up on Mars, but that was a long way from here, we didn't know much about the place, and at the time, no one could check up on him. And both he and H. Rider Haggard wrote a lot of stuff set in deepest, darkest, dankest Africa, which, at the time was only very sparsely explored. Methinks "beyond the Pillars of Hercules" had the same mysterious aura of unexplored places back in the days of Plato. Terra Incognita, "Here Be Dragons!" And as far as the wisdom and knowledge of the Greeks is concerned, no, it wasn't lost during the Dark Ages, it just got diverted to the East, and tabled, at least as far as Europeans were concerned. The burning of the Great Library of Alexandria was a major historical disaster, considering the scrolls that went up in flames. But a big question remains as to who actually burned the library. Plutarch blamed Julius Caesar. Edward Gibbon blamed Theophilus. One or two Christian bishops have also been blamed for it (along with the murder of Hypatia). Mark Antony was supposed to have given Cleopatra over 200,000 scrolls for the Library long after Julius Caesar is accused of having burned it. But much of the knowledge of the ancient Greeks was preserved by Arabs, Muslims, et al, who added a great deal to the store of knowledge. The Dark Ages were a European phenomenon. While Europe was groping about in ignorance and superstition, in the Middle East, major advances were being made in astronomy, in the development of mathematics, including algebra (which is an Arabic root word), and much more. One salutary effect of the Crusades was that this knowledge began trickling back to Europe. At the same time, Thomas Aquinas discovered Aristotle, and tried to prove the existence of God through logic. He failed. All of his arguments have holes in them, but his efforts did earn him a sainthood and it got others interested in employing Aristotelian logic. Aristotle advocated learning by observation of the external world and using rigorous logic (essentially scientific method), as opposed to the Platonic practice of looking inward, which the Christians had adopted. With Plato, enlightenment was supposed to come through contemplation of the True Essence of things; with Christians, through prayer, meditation, and Divine Revelation. Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo were inspired to try to learn what it's all about by looking outward and using their "God-given" brains instead of the European Christian version of navel gazing. Bingo! Renaissance! No, I don't think we lost all that much actual knowledge because of the loss of the Alexandrian library. Many of the plays of Sophocles were lost (only about five remain) and that was a tragedy, as was the loss of other literary works. But anything discovered by a process of rational thought can be re-discovered by rational thought. (But making back-ups is definitely advisable) Considering that deep-dive vehicles have explored, and are currently exploring, the depths of the oceans and have been as far down as discovering and exploring the mid-Atlantic ridge, and that various kinds of sensor probes from satellites have pretty well mapped the oceans' depths, if a place such as Atlantis, existing "beyond the Gates of Hercules," I think that by now they would have found incontrovertible evidence of it (not just a haphazard row of squarish-looking stones that, if you squint just right, look like they may at one time have been some kind of a road). I don't think Plato's Atlantis really existed any more that Thomas More's Utopia really existed. It's more a State of Mind. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: MMario Date: 15 Mar 06 - 01:18 PM I believe in hamster replication. I've seen hamsters both begin and finish the replication process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 06 - 01:13 PM Heh. The Wikipedia page didn't come up in my Google search on Piri Reis. ...maybe it was abducted by aliens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:51 PM You may be right about Plato, Clinton. What is more interesting is not whether you are right or wrong about that, specifically, or about anything else, but why you are of a mindset that almost always puts you instantly in defence of the most conventional viewpoints of present-day culture. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:42 PM Piri Reis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piri_Reis_map "... the claim that the map depicts a portion of the ancient Antarctican landmass has certain criticisms. Firstly, the map is large-scale and low-detail, and the landmass pictured is arguably not accurate enough to be matched to any actual landscape. Secondly, any similarity it may have to modern radar imaging of the Antarctica under the ice may be irrelevant, since in the period when Antarctica was not covered with an ice cap its shorelines may be so different as to be completely unrecognizable, due to the pre-icecap sea level being significantly higher, and thus obscuring a great portion of the sixth continent. Thirdly, for it to be Antartica one would have to explain why the South American east coast ends at the mouth of the Amazon. Clearly it does not, the landmass depicted is just the continuation of the coast and includes features of Tierra del Fuego and the Malvinas/Falklands." For what that's worth..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:29 PM Read Plato... it's OBVIOUS he was writing FICTION as social commentary when he wrote about Atlantis... It's fiction... always has been... always will be.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:16 PM Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of the Piri Reis map of Antarctica? Piri Reis was a 15th century Turkish sailor, and the map shows the coastline of Antarctica as it would be if it was not under a covering of ice. Antarctica was not "discovered" until the 19th century, and the ice has been there far longer than the period of time covered in the recorded history now in our possession. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis... From: number 6 Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:16 PM My wife and I met an elderly expatriate American lady (very interesting person)living in St. John's Newfoundland ... she had arrived 40 years previously due to some 'calling' ... anyway her theory was that Newfoundland is part of the lost continent of Atlantis ... take or leave it, but an interesting theory by her explanation. BTW ... she had one of the most intriguing back yard gardens I have ever seen. sIx |
