BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog

Subject: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 11:06 PM

Well now my kids tell me they won't watch To Kill a Mockingbird again because they are convinced a dog was shot in the film making process. I don't know what to say. Anyone know the truth?

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 11:16 PM

Well, get them to watch "Pale Rider" instead. The dog that gets killed by being trampled to death in that film is so obviously a stuffed puppet after his "death" that the whole audience at the show I saw spontaneously burst out with disgusted snorts and groans in reaction to the scene...your kids will KNOW it's fake.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:15 AM

The thing that might me hesitate about that is - Last (and only) time I got them an Eastwood movie (so they could learn to walk and have a steely glare), I got Josey Wales. Ever seen that that on dvd instead of television? Sondra Locke got brutally gang raped, with T&A everywhere. Bad dad. They should just read more, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:24 AM

Yeah, I was really just joking about the Eastwood movie. Most of those are a bit too vicious for kids, I think. I've not seen the specific version of "Josey Wales" you mention, but it sounds fairly typical. I don't know what Eastwood's problem is, but it's no surprise that he's a Republican, is it?

It's funny. I like his movies, but totally disagree with his philosophy...it's just that he plays it so well. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:41 AM

Tell 'em the shooting was "movie magic" ~ a fake, staged event. Even though they didn't have today's computer-graphics techniques back in the 60s, they had plenty of other ways to create illusions.

Do I know this as an absolute fact? Well, no ~ but I'm about 99.9% sure it's true. Trained animals capable of taking direction and "acting" in the movies have been around for quite a while, and they have always been much too valuable to snuff on camera.

In any event, Mockingbird is a great film that they really should see several more times, every few years as they get older and more mature and grow in their ability to understand everything that is going on in the story.

Of course, they should read the book sooner or later, too. Every literary work adapted for film contains much more material, and conveys it on many more levels, than does the movie.

By the way: I learned only recently that (Nell) Harper Lee was a childhood friend and seasonal neighbor of Truman Capote, and ~ as depicted in the 2005 film Capote ~ she acted as Tru's asssistant during his research for and writing of In Cold Blood. She completed and published To Kill A Mockingbird soon afterwards.

The little kid in Mockingbird who moves into Scout's neighborhood each summer (sorry ~ I forget the character's name) is based on the young Truman Capote. And Scout, of course, is Nell herself.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:49 AM

Dill. What a timely factlet, poppagator. And thanks, I knew there was hope about that shooting scene. I'm not sure what standard of proof the kids are going to demand.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 01:24 AM

from rotten tomatoes.

Mistake #4
When Atticus kills the mad dog, you can see its hind legs being pulled by someone off screen.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: NH Dave
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 01:41 AM

I'd suspect that the DVD version of The Outlaw Josie Wales was probably the original verfsion, and then movie censors required that it be toned down for more genteel audiences. There used to be more of this in the earlier days of motion pictures, when the Hayes Office set themselves up as arbiters of what American could, or should be watching. TV had similar groups, but most of their old ideals have gone by the board, and you can say almost anything on TV, especially later at night when the kids are supposed to be in bed; and pictures are rated as to their suitability or shock factor for different age groups.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 05:40 AM

To Kill a Mockingbird was on our school reading list when I was a lad. I have never seen it to this day for that very reason!

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: GUEST,G
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 07:22 AM

Little Hawk, I am surprised to hear that Eastwood is a Republican.

With his attitude in the movies of 'I come first', 'my way or the highway' and 'leftovers for the masses', I just naturally assumed he was a Dem.

Anyway, does it really matter what he is? Sometimes it is just better to keep the slimey topic of politics out of an otherwise interesting and informative conversation.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 07:48 AM

sometimes I worry about the many dangerous situations faced by Scooby Doo, but he always seems to manage and come through with flying colours.

edge of the seat stuff though.....

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 10:58 AM

Horton Foote, the screenwriter for the film version of To Kill a Mockingbird was a guest on a radio talk show here a couple of years ago. I had read the book out loud to my kids, and then we watched the film. Before hand we talked about it, that it would be changed to fit the time scheme of a film. I called in and got on the program to ask him how he managed to fit the story into a film, and that while we recognized the combination of characters in some instances, we wondered why others were left out.

He had written the full character of Mrs. Dubose, but she was mostly on the cutting room floor, he said. And in order to fit the film easier, they compressed the story from one year to two. The film is good, but the book is excellent, and is well worth re-reading. I had a good recorded books version of it from the library a few years back that was excellent.

Assume there are Hollywood smoke and mirrors at work, get past the dog thing, and watch the film. (I find Bob Ewell much harder to watch than the shooting of the dog--with rabies, the dog is a goner anyway, and shooting is more humane.)

BTW--I wish they'd left in Mrs. Dubose. Do you remember Atticus' talk with the kids about how brave she was to get off of her addiction to morphine before she died? It's a powerful speech. As bigoted as she was, Atticus could see strength and good in her. In chapter 11 Atticus has explained to Jem how she had determined she wanted to fight her addiction before she died:

   Atticus said, "Just before your escapade she called me to make her will. Dr. Reynolds told her she had only a few months left. Her business affairs were in perfect order, but she said 'There's still one thing out of order.'"
   "What was that?" Jem was perplexed.
   "She said she was going to leave this world beholden to nothing and nobody. Jem, when you're sick as she was, it's all right to take anything to make it easier, but it wasn't all right for her. She said she meant to break herself of it before she died, and that's what she did."
   Jem said, "You mean that's what her fits were?"
   "Yes, that's what they were. Most of the time you were reading to her I doubt if she heard a word you said. Her whole mind and body were concentrated on that alarm clock. If you hadn't fallen into her hands, I'd have made you go read to her anyway. It may have been some distraction. There was another reason--"
   "Did she die free?" asked Jem.
   "As the mountain air," said Atticus. "She was conscious to the last, almost. Conscious," he smiled, "and cantankerous. She still disapproved heartily of my doings, and said I'd probably spend the rest of my life bailing you out of jail. She had Jessie fix you this box--"
   Atticus reached down and picked up the candy box. He handed it to Jem.
   Jem opened the box. Inside, surrounded by wads of damp cotton, was a white, waxy, perfect camellia. It was a Snow-on-the-Mountain.
   Jem's eyes nearly popped out of his head. "Old hell-devil, old hell-devil!" he screamed, flinging it down. "Why can't she leave me alone?"
   In a flash Atticus was up and standing over him. Jem buried his face in Atticus's shirt front. "Sh-h," he said. "I think that was her way of telling you--everything's all right now, Jem, everything's all right. You know, she was a great lady."
   "A lady?" Jem raised his head. His face was scarlet. "After all those things she said about you, a lady?"
   "She was. She had her own views about things, a lot different from mine, maybe. . . son, I told you that if you hadn't lost your head I'd have made you go read to her. I wanted you to see something about her--I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It's when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what. You rarely win, but sometimes you do. Mrs. Dubose won, all ninety-eight pounds of her. According to her views, she died beholden to nothing and nobody. She was the bravest person I ever knew."
   Jem picked up the candy box and threw it in the fire. He picked up the camellia, and when I went off to bed I saw him fingering the wide petals. Atticus was reading the paper. (115-16)

After Sept. 11 we soon began to hear small stories about the flight attendants on the airliners that were hijacked and flown into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and crashed in Pennsylvania. Knowing they were going to die, I can imagine the thing closest to their hearts would be to tell their families that they love them one last time. They knew they were dead in a few minutes, and they knew they could call their spouses and children and tell them goodbye, but they spoke with operators and air traffic controllers and did above and beyond their jobs instead. I think their bravery can be equated with that very personal level that Harper Lee expressed in To Kill a Mockingbird.

My two cents. Don't worry about the dog, look at the story for so much more.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 11:23 AM

What if the kids are just trying to communicate that To Kill a Mockingbird is too big, too serious, too stressful a movie for them to handle? It almost certainly is.

Also, even if the shooting is fake, it is real in the context of movie-viewing.

It's not a kid's movie. It's about rape, treachery and racism. True, the action is viewed through the eyes of a child, Scout, but Scout is strangely mature. Actually, we are seeing things through Scout's eyes as Scout remembers them as an adult.

Push, push, push. So many people today are pushing their kids through childhood.
---------
There was a letter to Dear Abby yesterday where a mother bragged that her gifted son started college at 14. I wanted to ask her, "Why did you do that? So he could go through college with no friends, then graduate and have no idea of what to do with himself?"

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 11:57 AM

It's a standard book to be read by sixth graders in many schools across the country.

Shielding children isn't a great thing either. Parents and teachers who mediate between the "real world" and "family life" often choose tools such as novels or film in order to get a message across. At least that has been my experience. I want my kids to be aware of what to look out for when they're in the world without me by their side.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:40 PM

Last night I watched The Body Snatcher with Boris Karloff. It's a great horror move with no blood or goryness. Early in the movie Karloff kills Greyfriars Booby (that's like killing Benji!) with a shovel. All they show is his shadow swinging a shovel. Not even a yip! Of course, I wouldn't take a seven year old to see The Body Snatcher...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:40 PM

I was worried that it might be too heavy for them, but I remember it fondly from my youth, and I think they were fine with it. It's his new fascinaton with special effects that caused him to bring it up many months later. It's a constant process. Last month, during "African-American reading month" at the younger one's school, she was getting frustrated with a book called "Missippi Bridge," so I read it to her. There I was, reading out loud to my second-grader things like "Why you lying ni&$!@, you think you're as good as a white man?" I decided that some all-knowing committee had put this on the list, but no, it turns out she had just grabbed it from the school library. The teacher said they had once tried to divide the books into age appropriate categories, but that raised screams of censorship. I tried looking around on the net for a list of warnings, but instead, any list on the subject is only to mock people who have concerns - i.e. "Look at what books the nutcases would have banned."

I got burned in picking movies just the other day. I wanted Of Mice and Men with Randy Quaid and Baretta, but that never made it to DVD. Instead, there's one with Gary Sinise and John Malkovich. I had, of course, forgotten the ending where the big guy (Lenny) gets a bullet in the head. But it didn't matter, because there was a much earlier scene where Lenny (literally) catches a punch from the mean guy (Curly), then squeezes the fist until blood runs out of each knuckle and all the bones are crushed. My son just walked away, thoroughly disgusted with his old man's standards, yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:46 PM

Yeah, Mississippi

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:50 PM

At least Mississippi Bridge had a happy ending, where all the white folk who had forced all of the black folk off a crowded bus plunged into a flooded river and drowned.

(The black folk then went to the rescue, I should note. Not a bad book at all. Just not in second grade, I'd say, for Leenia's reasoning.)

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 01:48 PM

Well, G, if it makes you happy, I detest the Democratic Party too, but in a different way. Yes, Eastwood is a very solid Republican. So are Schwarzenneger and Charlton Heston, to mention two other very macho male actors. Then there was Ronald Reagan. The macho male punch 'em out and shoot 'em up simple-minded attitude goes perfectly with overt Republican philosophy. I think in the case of the Democrats that sleazy lawyers and a glib line of fashionable talk combined with a really nice suit are more the style. Think Massachusetts lawyer, and you'ver really got it.

Equally dangerous. Equally useless. To elect either of those parties to lead a nation is a disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 01:50 PM

My apologies, by the way, for hijacking the thread, but I cannot PM "G", because "G" is a Guest.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Apr 06 - 05:42 AM

Dragging this kicking and screaming back to the original question - I have a friend who spent half his life training animals for stage and screen ~ he assures me that the story of the dog being shot for the film is total nonsense.... it was trained to 'drop' on command.

The American Humane Society is involved in every production where an animal is used and they are often treated better than the human actors.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 13 Apr 06 - 10:30 AM

Thanks, Liz. But it was that humane treatment rule (which must have been implemented for a reason) in combination wuth this being such an old film (40 plus years) that made me unsure of what to say to the kids. I can't find my copy of the film, but to my recollection the scene is consistent with string being tied to one or both hind legs and yanked from the side, as described above. I need to find it.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 Apr 06 - 01:49 PM

If they hadn't killed that dog in 1962 it would be over 46 years old now. That's 294 in dog years.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Apr 06 - 03:13 PM

And a lot of kibble!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: cryptoanubis
Date: 14 Apr 06 - 06:57 AM

What about the remake of Mice and Men ....
Okay i know you don't see the dog get shot but...

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Apr 06 - 07:14 AM

It was Chekov who became famous for having actors shoot themselves off stage - cheap mongrel didn't want to pay the funeral expenses, obviously!

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 14 Apr 06 - 10:36 AM

Yeah with Mice and Men I dodged a few bullets myself, there. Thankfully, the crushed hand preceded everything but the dead mouse. (And my young one was asleep.)

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 01:34 AM

OK here's the deal.

We just watched the DVD of to Kill a Mocking Bird, which we own. Excellent excellent movie!!

Watching the dog shooting scene at 1/8 I could see a string pulling the dog's legs out from under him.

As further confirmation. On the Director's commentary, the director says. "I've had several people chew me out for shooting the dog or allowing a dog to be shot on set. THAT DID NOR HAPPEN." So tell your kids its OK. No dogs were killed in the making of this movie.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 01:35 AM

Sorry it did NOT happen!

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 01:58 AM

Ahhh.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:00 AM

Guess what, heric! We live in Atticus' house!

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:01 AM

um    ?

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:04 AM

Get outta town.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:15 AM

Check it out!

http://community.webshots.com/photo/541279686/1541280886034261223hKlPPk

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:18 AM

This one's better...

http://community.webshots.com/photo/541279686/1541498752034261223mEVQvG

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:23 AM

Well... You took out the side kitchen door where Mr. Cunningham brought food. And you added astro-turf. Impressive nonetheless.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:32 AM

Actually, the kitchen door is on the other side... ours seems to be a mirror opposite of Atticus' house, even on the inside. (The astro-turf will be going as soon as we can get to that task.) Another difference is the trim around the bottom of the porch roof. We have some, Atticus didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: heric
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:43 AM

Beauty.

Subject: RE: BS: It's a Sin to Kill a Movie Dog
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 03:46 AM

Our house was built in 1993 It is built in the style of a bungalow of that era on the outside on the inside it is much more modern. The front right bedroom, looking at the house is a kids room mirroring the Finch home; but it isn't laid out for optimum camera angles like the one in the movie.