Create a Music Score and Midi Software

Subject: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 May 06 - 08:30 AM

I've looked through the Midi threads anod don't see an answer to this question; Does anyone have expereience with a free or cheap midi scoring program? I want to create a score from my PC and be able to print out the music as well as play the midi file.

I am NOT looking for a function rich application. I am looking for low/no cost and easy to use.


Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 06 - 08:44 AM

How cheap is cheap? Melody Assistant (shareware) will do that for US$20. It happens to be function-rich as well.

But I am sure that are lots of threads on this - Noteworthy often gets mentioned. Try a few other keywords, such as Music Notation, and I'm sure you'll find a wealth of answers.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:26 AM

Do you use Melody Assistant? Is it a good product?

$20 is certainly cheap!

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: MMario
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:32 AM

Jed - one function you will probably want it the ability to put in guitar chords easily. I have to admit that is one function Noteworthy can do, but not easily. Have you checked with PAVANE? His is not primarily a notation program but it may be able to do what you need.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:58 AM

I use the next version up - Harmony Assistant. The main thing HA gives that I like is better control of the score layout, although that's a minute fraction of the extras Harmony Assistant gives.

Currently I use it probably three or four times a week, but a few years back I was using it for several hours a day.

I agreed with Pavane some time back to be careful with the names: Pavane's product is called 'Harmony' and it is quite different from 'Harmony Assistant'.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: redsnapper
Date: 09 May 06 - 10:05 AM

Jed,

Anvil Studio will do this, is free and is easy to use.

RS

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 09 May 06 - 10:15 AM

My program HARMONY can do this, as noted above (On a Windows PC only though).

And it is free for the first month (Fully functional).
It can also add (suggest) chords for a melody.

For guitar:

The score options include Guitar staff, with all notes shown in the treble cleff.

I have almost finished the full Guitar Tablature option, which will let you define your own tunings, and can generate chords to fit the tuning. (The guitar tab in version 3.4.1 has an error, so don't use it! It loses accidentals when they are in the key signature).

Download from my site Green Hedges

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 May 06 - 11:23 AM

First, what exactly do you mean by "I want to create a score from my PC?"

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 May 06 - 04:51 PM

Good point, Leeneia--most of the freeware/shareware is good for lead sheets, but doesn't offer all of the options necessary to do an orchestral or band score--stuff like the capacity to do the conductors score, with multiple staves, and the ability to extract parts in the appropriate keys, as well as the ability to customize different aspects of the score, and to create large documents all costs extra.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: MaineDog
Date: 09 May 06 - 06:18 PM

I have used Encore for a long time now. I understand that it is being produced again in a modern version.
MD

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: Stewart
Date: 09 May 06 - 06:46 PM

I use Noteworthy Composer for creating a score. It will also create a midi file. Add chords by using insert/text above or below the staff just before the note - not very difficult.

You can create an abc file using another program abc2nwc . It will also convert an abc file to a nwc file - very helpful when you have to start with an abc file. To play the abc file I use AbcMus .

I can also create a midi file from AbcMus. In AbcMus you can also adjust the tempo, rhythm (reel, jig, waltz, etc), and if you have chords in the orginal nwc file they will translate to the abc file and the midi created with AbcMus will also play the chords along with the melody.

For me, this is a great combination. I can go from an abc file to a complete printed score in just a few minutes. That's quite useful for fiddle tunes which are often posted as abc files.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From:
Date: 09 May 06 - 07:09 PM

As Leenia said create a score from my PC doesn't tell us your needs.

Also, low cost is different.

That said, assuming all you need is a way to input notes on a stave, and guitar chords, and then print it, along with MIDI input and output, you might try one of the Finale products. The FREE Notepad is certainly inexpensive enough, but does not give you MIDI. I use the next one up, the Notepad Plus, which seems to have been renamed Finale SongWriter. This product is 49.95 US$. You can get further details on the entire Finale Product line at Product Overview

Hope one of these suggestions helps.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 10 May 06 - 02:12 AM

HARMONY has drag and drop of notes onto the staff, and of chords (From the toolbox) onto the notes.

It can handle multi-part tunes, multi-stave scores, and aligned lyrics and will write abc as well as MIDI.

It can import abc directly to a score, and play it back immediately.
It also analyses the tune structure on import, and warns of incorrect bar lengths etc, which seem to be common in abc files.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: treewind
Date: 10 May 06 - 03:21 AM

Write the music in ABC and use ABCMIDI to convert.
Total cost 0.00 in any currency.

There is a new(ish) package for Windows to edit and print ABC as staff notation, much better that ABC2WIN, but I can't remember what it's called. I think that's free too.
abcm2ps is certainly free. It's what I use, and it's a no-brainer choice in Linux - This site has instructions for making it work on Windows.

As an added bonus, the ABCMIDI package also includes the abc2abc program, which can do a number of transformations, the most useful of which (to me) is transposition.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 06 - 04:18 AM

most of the freeware/shareware is good for lead sheets, but doesn't offer all of the options necessary to do an orchestral or band score--stuff like the capacity to do the conductors score, with multiple staves, and the ability to extract parts in the appropriate keys, as well as the ability to customize different aspects of the score, and to create large documents all costs extra

Just to bang on again about "Melody Assistant" (US$20)and "Harmony Assistant" (US$70). Both of these can be used to create conductors score with multiple staves, extract parts in appropriate keys and create large documents and both have some ability to customize different aspects of the score. The biggest difference between them as far as I am concerned is that HA gives MUCH better layout of both the individual bars and the score as a whole. Of course, whether either of them can do a specific customisation you might wish is difficult to answer. For example, there is no ability to analyse a MIDI file and identify possible repeated sections, and I have not found it terribly easy to identify these 'by eye' and cut and paste the sections into a tidied-up score. Nor, when you extract parts, does there seem to be a convenient way of representing that fact that such and such an instrument has 100 bars rest.

Both these tools can read and write ABC. However, be aware that ABC is not as standard a standard as you might wish and there are some aspects, such as triplets, that these tools produce in a form that meets the standard but that other ABC processors do not recognise. Other areas, such as mutilple voices, are still unsettled.

Here's a brief description of how I manage (a proportion) of my songs. With my work over at folkinfo, I normally prepare the score in HA, where I can visually and audibly check the entered score against the original printed source. Although the system comes with a default keyboard mapping to assist with entering notes, for me the quickest way is to use a modified mapping so that my left hand selects note/rest duration (keys 1-5 and the odd key to the left of '1' for dotted and double-dotted notes) and the right hand to move the mouse onto the relevant stave line. Once I have entered the melody I then export it to ABC and run it through a little uility Jon Freeman produced which passes it into ABC2MIDI and one of the ABC-to-PDF processors. I do this because of the triplet issue and because way back in the early days of the site I pushed for laying the score out to suit singers rather than instrumentalists, so the scores are biased towards sensible breaks in the lyrics rather than the more standard breaks on bar lines. As HA breaks on bar lines I often have a few tweaks to move a note or two from one ABC line to another. Once that's been done I type up the rest of the lyrics and post them to the site.

I could of course simply use ABC throughout, and typing C/ is pretty quick. But I found the checking cycle was faster this way, especially with multiple staves. For example, with Diadem I have so far spent 39 minutes in HA. That includes entering the stuff, reviewing it and playing it several times, some one which were after the tune was entered. Be aware that the presentation you see in that link is the one from the ABC-to-PDF tool, not HA itself.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 10 May 06 - 04:53 AM

Just to bang on again about HARMONY!

It can do most what is listed above (including Transpose).
It provides alternative input methods via keyboard or drag and drop
It does handle triplets correctly (and other tuples)
It can import MIDI melody (with some restrictions) and abc
It can add chords automatically - this was the whole point of it.
It provides Guitar Staff where all parts are shown in the Treble clef


I have been trying to make it easy to use, and would welcome futher suggestions along these lines.

Only available on Windows though, because I wrote it in VB. Rewriting in C (or Java) is NOT an option for me (Any volunteers?)

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:18 AM

It sounds like I'd better explain the triplets issue. The standard allows two forms (x:y and (x:y:n. The first means for example 3 in the time of two, and the second for example a timing of 3:2 but 'n' of them, not necessarily three.

What happens if the second form is used on the ABC-to-PDF package we use is that the superscript '3' over the triple is omitted, so that (3:2:3ABC is visually identical to ABC rather than (3:2ABC.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 06 - 06:19 AM

I should perhaps also add that while HA is the main workhorse, I do use a fair number of other tools. I suppose the second most important is ABCMUS mentioned above, which is particularly useful for handling collections of ABC tunes, unlike HA which really only works on a single tune at a time.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: treewind
Date: 10 May 06 - 08:26 AM

"most of the freeware/shareware is good for lead sheets, but doesn't offer all of the options necessary to do an orchestral or band score--stuff like the capacity to do the conductors score, with multiple staves, and the ability to extract parts in the appropriate keys"
... and ...
"ABC is not as standard a standard as you might wish"

The ABC Plus standard ties down specific extensions to the original ABC standard. Read the excellent PDF document you can download from there, written by Guido Gonzato.

abcm2ps (a practical implementation of ABC Plus, same link) handles multiple staves according to the ABCPlus standard, and abc2prt (same site again) extracts parts from multi-part scores.

There's also abcpp, a pre-processor which can automate conversion between different non-standard dialects of ABC as well as do many other things, but unlike abcm2ps I can't give a direct recommendation because I've never used it.

All those programs are free.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 10 May 06 - 10:22 AM

Once again:

Harmony can import multi-voice abc tunes (With aligned lyrics in each part, if present), and can play, display or print any selected combination of voices/parts.

It can also play selected voices with transposition, for those instruments where the music is written in C, for example and played in Eb

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 May 06 - 11:13 AM

Setting aside for a moment the question of what Jed Marum wishes to do, people in general can mean different things when they say they want to create a score.

Do they want to:

Feed a recording into the computer and make sheet music for it? I don't think this can be done, and somebody has to break the news.

Play a piece on a keyboard and have the computer "Listen"? This requires super-accurate timing on the player's part. The internet is rife with unusable MIDI's full of unwanted dots which have been made in this way.

Learn to read music, buy a MIDI keyboard and enter the music note-by-note? This is what produces the best manuscripts, but beginners have to be told this upfront.

I mean to say, it's no good debating the benefits of Noteworthy vs Harmony vs Finale until you know whether they are willing to buy a MIDI keyboard, can read music, and know some harmony.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: MaineDog
Date: 10 May 06 - 11:49 AM

Pavane,
In What language is Melody written? Do you think it would run under Linux with Wine? I need to get some such program going, and I still haven't got my old Encore to work under Linux, although it is very good under Windows 2000.
MD

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: treewind
Date: 10 May 06 - 03:00 PM

All the ABC stuff I mentioned runs on Linux (that's it's natural habitat)

Anahata

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 10 May 06 - 03:54 PM

What I would like to be able to do is to copy the notes of a folk song tune (like those in the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs, for example) on to a stave on my computer screen - then get the computer to play the tune for me.
I had a program, from Cakewalk, which could do this, but it doesn't work in Windows XP. Anyone know of a recent program which can do this?I tried Finale PrintMusic but it was too complicated and kept changing the notes that I put on the stave (I think that it was telling me that I know nothing about music theory - which I don't - a complete mystery!!).

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: MMario
Date: 10 May 06 - 04:00 PM

Noteworthy does that for me (its why I got it) and it works on the XP machines I have.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:29 PM

I think you can turn that function off, DB--

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:48 PM

Yall are full of it!

I have advertised on this very site the existence of a completely free and functioning MIDI / Notation program which I had accidently installed on my XP machine, and found that it worked better than in its original setting.

I bought it for Windows 3.1 ! You might think not possible, but not only is it possible, I use it all the time TO PRINT as well as play stuff I need to. It also does multimidi tracks, and scores or, if you prefer, singlesong sheets.

QSP for Windoze.

If you would like a copy submit your email address so that I can send you the 1.4 meg install package.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:30 AM

HARMONY will do that quite easily.

One away is to use Create a new tune
You tell it the time signature, key and number of bars you want.

It will create a score and fill each bar with rests. You then just drag and drop the notes onto the rests (replacing them).

Alternatively, paste the new notes after each bar line and then delete all the rests.

You can then play the tune - it will add chords and an accompaniment as well, if you like. Or you can drag and drop the chord names of your choice onto notes, and generate the accompaniment from that.

It does run under XP.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:39 AM

Just saw your post, MaineDog.

It is written in VB5, but also uses some 3rd party controls for MIDI capture and immediate play. Doesn't need them for standard play mode, because it writes a complete MIDI file and sends it to the MCI control.

I don't think it would run under WINE, but maybe I could produce a WINE-compatible version by taking out those bits?

It also makes use of a number of Windows API calls, which would have to be checked for compatibility with WINE. Does anyone have a list of compatibility issues? Since they are standard WINDOWS functions, it may be that they are already emulated (I know, WINE Is Not an Emulator!)

It would be a great help if a WINE expert could assist me.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:47 AM

Pavanne, I consider myself a bit of an expert...

Bottle o' Wine, Fruit o' the vine!
When ya gonna let me get...... So....ber?!
Leave me alone, let me go home,
Let me go home and start.... O.....ver!

Wrote a program in MS VB!
When ya gonna let me get...... So....ber?!
Sure wish a WINE expert, could assist me!
Let me go home and start.... O.....ver!

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: MaineDog
Date: 11 May 06 - 08:24 AM

Wine seems to be ok at running things I have written in Visual C++, even when fairly complex grapnics are used. There used to be a problem in the number formatting routines in the wine built-in msvcrt.dll, which was fixed by using the Microsoft version. I have seen this same problem, and solution, in some commercial software. Foolstroupe is right, the only way to deal with wine is to keep at it until you are happy.
MD

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 11 May 06 - 10:37 AM

I don't actually have a LINUX machine to hand, but if someone would like to try it...

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:55 PM

Compiling all night, can't get it right!
Keyboard so polished it shines!
Out in the street, I tell the people I met,
To find me an expert in WINE!

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 12 May 06 - 03:34 AM

'Compiling all night' .. pretty accurate!

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 12 May 06 - 01:47 PM

QSP is free free free free free.

Completely free, free printing, free metronome, free midi editor, free song lyric insertion etc etc etc free free free free free.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 06 - 11:04 PM

Done 'the 3 day shift' myself, Pavanne - when MUCH younger and FAR more stupid... :-)

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:25 PM

Maine Dog,

Can you please supply more info on Encore? I have used it for years but since I couldn't get it updated through G-Vox I switched to Sebelius. Encore IMHO is hands-down the most user-friendly of the
notation systems and when Passport went bankrupt I was sorely disappointed. It does quite a lot too. It's cheaper brother does less but it's good too.

Where can I look to find info on Encore, please?

Thanks.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: MaineDog
Date: 16 May 06 - 09:21 AM

I will try to research it for you. A friend of mine just bought a new version of ENCORE on e-bay, she said that it is being produced again. Check the web!
MD

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 May 06 - 09:51 AM

I notate songs with Noteworthy.

Sorefingers is aggressively advocating a free program called QSP, but his very aggressiveness sounds alarm bells within me. It may be fine...


A word to the wise: I have found that programs that involve sound are very powerful, can do strange things to your computer, and are not well understood by computer professionals. If you have a lot of valuable stuff on your computer (and who doesn't?) then look into System Restore, etc before you install any music program.

If something goes wrong and you can't fix it, then you want to be able to return your computer to what it was before you tried the music program.

Also, if something new comes along down the line and bollixes your music program, you want to be able to restore your computer to the happy time when you were notating and playing music. This just happened to me. You can read about it in a thread I started April 30 called Tech: MIDI playback lost and restored.

Best of luck and happy singing.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: MaineDog
Date: 16 May 06 - 10:17 AM

Encore is now owned by gvox
see www.gvox.com

MD

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: pavane
Date: 16 May 06 - 10:25 AM

Hey, leeneia, it is great to hear that Visual Basic could be so powerful!

Just to reassure you all, HARMONY doesn't try to talk directly to the sound hardware. It actually writes a MIDI file which is then played by a Microsoft program (Maybe that's a problem?). That should be safe on any machine!

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 May 06 - 10:30 AM

DB, perhaps you would be better sticking with Cakewalk products if they have met you needs and presumably liked it.

I see they have something called Music Creator3 that might do you. $29 as a download.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 16 May 06 - 02:02 PM

I went through the process of trying to find a music scoring program to suit my needs a couple of years ago. I downloaded and tried several demos and trial versions. I settled on Noteworthy Composer. Cheap, easy to use, versatile enough to do all I required, midi in/out, good quality paper score. Neither I or the family have had any regrets at the choice.

Jed, try the options, and decide for yourself which meets your requirements.

cheers

Brian

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 May 06 - 11:09 AM

That's a good point about Cakewalk, Jon. Once a person gets used to how a program operates, it can be frustrating to go to a new product. It can be like moving from a manual transmission to an automatic - there's a lot of wasted movement.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,John
Date: 18 May 06 - 10:27 PM

The program I use frequently, and I have used in older versions for years is: "Magix Music Studio:2004" Its really great, has a lot of functions, lots of import/export and soundwave options and costs about $60. It also has a powerful audio editor built in that can edit .wav and .mp3 and convert back and forth between the two. It's really about everything that Ive ever needed from a music program.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: Brendy
Date: 18 May 06 - 10:53 PM

Guitar Pro 5 €60 approx

Print to PDF, Notation, Tab, Chording in all tunings, every scale under the sun catered for.

Trooly awesum ;-)

B.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 May 06 - 11:51 AM

As an anecdotal input to the discussion, I had a nice program 15 years ago that did everything I needed, and a few years back I used it to put together a "session book" for the local Irish types that was reasonably well received.

Unfortunately, it will not run on WinXP. (It started being cranky when I moved it from Win95 to Win98.) I've been able to open the old files using the program in WinXP, but all attempts to edit, add, subtract, etc crashed the program.

I have found a program that will open the old files and allow me to save in a "new modern format." All recently installed and working, so I decided I'd take a quick look at how many files I have that "need" to be converted.

13,383 tune score files on one hard drive. I don't think I'll look at the other two drives. (I was expecting maybe 1,200).

And I think I'll wait until I need one before I worry about converting, now that I know I can. (I do have .jpg, .mid, and .pdf of the important ones.)

The point here is, I guess, that if you're going to set up to do some notation, you may want to look at the potential longevity of the program you select, and the likelihood that it will be around through the next few years of your musical life. It's amazing how much stuff can accumulate in reasonably short order, and even if only a few occasionally need a tweak or two, it's very inhibiting to one's creative juices to be stuck with an inadequate (or broken) program.

And even if a program is "free," you'll spend some time and effort getting it to do what you expect, so it's worth looking for a program that allows at least a little growth before you do your learning.

The voice of experience (or maybe just procrastination).

John

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 May 06 - 07:59 PM

Ohhkayy you asked for it and here it is.

Sheesh.

QSP cannot do anything other than make requests of the operating system which provides the virtual 16 bit environment within which it runs.

In plain English, the system runs the HD and Soundcard not the software.

QSP is still free and risk free, as well as safe.

Have a nice day ...oh and quit trying to hawk that rubbish unproven software!

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 May 06 - 04:27 AM

JohnInKansas

You have put your finger upon one REAL need for 'legacy software & hardware packages', which people like MickyCrap hope just goes away.

Subject: RE: Create a Music Score and Midi Software
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 May 06 - 11:24 AM

JohninKansas: are you still selling your book of Irish music? PM me.

I am not a guest.