BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

Subject: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: DougR
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 08:04 PM

Perhaps this should have been posted on the "Today is a good day because" thread, but the killing of this terrorist is such good news, I think it deserves a thread of it's own.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 08:54 PM

Who realy cares, Dougie???

There's lots of bad people in the world who are responsible for lots of killings... George Bush included... Yeah, good to get one... Another million or so to go...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 09:07 PM

Damn, that's 72 less virgins for the rest of us . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: number 6
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 09:10 PM

My sentiments are the same as Bobert .... doesn't matter, there are lots of bad guys in our current teims around the world to continue the killing.

remember all the propaganda hoopla when they caught Sadam ... did that change anything?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 09:16 PM

With Bobert again here.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: number 6
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 09:25 PM

Here is a very interesting and moving interview with Michael Berg expressing his reaction to today's news regarding al-Zarqawi. He is the father of Nocholas Berg who was murdered by al-Argawi.

Michael Berg interview

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 09:37 PM

Yes, great news, for just about everyone, Doug. The native Sunni insurgent groups are rid of a psychopathic jackass who was making them look bad. Al Qaeda is, well, also rid of a psychopathic jackass who was making them look bad. Snuff-film enthusiasts and armchair babykillers got off to images of his battered corpse. And the child who was killed in the air strike won't have to grow up in a violent shithole like Bush's Iraq. Mission accomplished! And everyone wins!

Well, except for the US. We're still losing, and this won't change that. And for the majority of the Iraqi people, of course, who will continue to die in ever increasing numbers thanks to the invasion/occupation. Yeah, except for those guys, the death of one widely disliked and easily replaceable figurehead is good news, indeed! :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 09:59 PM

Well, gol danged, L-Rex... Where the heck you been???

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: 282RA
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 10:13 PM

It's great news for Iraq but not for the U.S. Americans are not politically complex. We're really very simple. You're either with us or you're against us. Muslim politics is a different animal entirely. Zarqawi kept it simple for us. We knew who the enemy was and it never changed. MAde things easy to predict. With Zarqawi gone, Iraqis can now engage in the Muslim politics Zaraqwi intimidated them from practicing (it was confusing and therefore threatening to him also). It's a very difficult, fickle system that I KNOW the U.S. simply does not know how to play.

It would also be extremely naive to assume this was a huge blow to al-Qaeda. I'll guarantee you their leaders are pumping their fists and cheering. They never liked Zarqawi, never really wanted him. They didn't care for his heavy-handed, indiscriminate, extreme violence. They wanted someone to drive out the U.S. than to turn Iraqis against one another. I'm very afraid the next guy to take his place is going to be this charismatic folk-hero-type who will unite Shiite and Sunni against us. All the Iraqis are looking for is a good leader not in the pocket of Americans. All al-qaeda has to do is give them someone like that. With Zarqawi out of the way, they just might pull it off and it will be all over for us if they manage it. And I see no reason they couldn't manage it.

It's a very bad situation when you're claiming to help a nation whose interests are not yours and whose benefit is to your detriment. That's a doomed venture. And this is a doomed venture. Just as with Saddam, we're going to be sorry he's gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:47 AM

I agree. Why should I be happy about the death of al-Zarqawi? He is now a martyr and his death will only inflame his followers.

I am much sorrier for the families who have been destroyed by this war. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's death is just one among many. There are many more waiting to take his place.

Good link, 6.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Johnhenry'shammer
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 01:39 AM

Why should anybody celebrate the death of another human being no matter who he was? Who are we to judge Mr. al-Zarqawi?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:01 AM

Stan Bigley, the brother of the British civil engineer Ken Bigley, who was kidnapped and beheaded by Zarqawi's group in 2004, said he was glad the terror leader was "off the face of the earth, not just for Ken, but for all the people he has killed".

I agree

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:03 AM

I'm with Wolfgang on this one. Too bad it didn't happen years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:06 AM

Good riddance to bad rubbish. BTW it's not 72 virgins it's 72 Virginians, and they all have baseball bats ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: pdq
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:09 AM

Glad to see sanity return to this thread! The terrorist bastard is room temperature. Good.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:18 AM

What about the methods used?
Who else died in the "safe house"?

reminds me of the IRA Shankill bombing just before ceasefire; they acted on intelligence that Loyalist paramilitary leaders were meeting in the building. Didn't matter that "ordinary civilians" were downstairs. As it happens the IRA were too late as the paramilities had already left. If timing had been better, only a small group of supporters would have cheered because IRA are non-government. So what makes it good when state armies act like terrorists?

(also reminds me of some Israeli actions, like that crippled extremist Muslim religious leader - I forget his name - they bombed)

sorry for somewhat disjointed thoughts, but I don't see others raising the issue so I thought I should write something

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Arne
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:37 AM

peace:

I'm with Wolfgang on this one. Too bad it didn't happen years ago.

The Dubya maladministration had a chance (see here and here) to go after the Ansar al-Islam camps and Zarqawi (in the northern "no-fly" zone) before the Iraq war. But they didn't do it when they had the chance, in part because Zarqawi and the Ansar folks were part of the purported Saddam/al-Qaeda link, and getting him would remove one of the justifications as to why we "had" to invade Iraq....

Just so we know what the U.S. "plan" was. Yes, now the seventh or so "#3 guy in al-Qaeda" is (apparently) dead. We're "turning [another] corner". And in other news, Nicholas Berg is still dead.

I hope any celebrations are appropriate to the occasion.

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:39 AM

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi killed a lot less than the Americans in Iraq. They get medals.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:42 AM

Interesting that only one person mentioned the child killed in the airstrike.
Unfortunately more children will die before this is over.
The responsibility lies with one person only.

I caught a CNN interview with Congressman John Murtha, and the interviewer said that had US forces withdrawn to the periphery as Murtha had suggested they would likely not have gotten Zarqawi. ??

How much involvement do you need to call in an airstrike?
As LRex pointed out the only problem is that the US has lost and they dont realize it yet.

just out of curiousity how many of the above posters - if given a machine gun - would mow down a group of people in a room including women and children - knowing that Zarqawi is one of them.

thats the problem with war (especially a push-button one from 4 miles away) you kill a lot of innocent people to get a couple bad ones.
That goes for the whole of Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:44 AM

I wish ALL the terrorists were dead, and I can't get too worked up over al-Zarqawi.

No matter who or what side they purport to be on.

You want a war, have a war. Between armies, preferably in some God-forsaken place where civilians ain't. Better yet, let the leaders of the countries involved fight it out -- the heads of state, the ministers, cabinet members, etc. can compose the fighters.

But the killing of civilians by either side is wrong. To justify it by calling upon the Deity makes it obscene.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:50 AM

Arne,

I know that his death will not bring Berg back to life. BUT, his death will maybe prevent some new deaths in the future. I do not revel when humans are killed, but people like that aren't quite what I'd call human.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Arne
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:52 AM

Rapaire:

You want a war, have a war. Between armies, preferably in some God-forsaken place where civilians ain't. Better yet, let the leaders of the countries involved fight it out -- the heads of state, the ministers, cabinet members, etc. can compose the fighters.

I remember the famous photo of Saddam with that shotgun. Maybe a Saddam/Cheney bout would have been more appropriate?

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:56 AM

"On this side, George W. Bush and his tag team: Cheney, Rumsfeld, and company. Over in that corner, Saddam Hussein and his tag team: his sons, Tarik Aziz and company. All of the combatants are armed with great big ol' scimitars and are wearing only loin clothes. When the bell rings, I want you all to come out fighting, and I hope that you cut each other to ribbons."

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Ernest
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

It won`t end the killings, but it is good that he is dead now.

BTW, why do those bastards always hide in places where there are children and other civilians?

Shows that they don`t give a damn for the people they claim to fight for.

Regards
Ernest

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,Mo
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:01 PM

Now to apprehend those other beheaders of innocent people...the House of Saud....they have had hundreds beheaded in the past few decades!!
mo

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:04 PM

It's possible the terrorists use the internet to make sure there is always a child provided for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:18 PM

I think it's interesting that they "found" al-Zarqawi AFTER Bush's ratings dropped to an all-time low AND when his attempt at changing the focus from the war to banning homosexuals from marrying was called at face value...when his motive is to improve his image and ensure Republican majority....seems to me that this death was almost timed...the goofy grin on GW's face made me wonder if that wasn't the plan all along...who knows.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:19 PM

Unlike the Arabs who celebrated 9-11 by dancing in the streets; WE do not celebrate any death. WE are just glad that a murdering bastard has met his just reward and cannot lead and order more murders. This is not an expression of celebration, it is a sigh of relief....

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:38 PM

"WE," Dave? So, "WE" are not "the Arabs," then, and "the Arabs" are not "WE," right? 'Cause "THEY" were apparently dancing in the streets, at least in Iraq. Which figures, as they're, yanno, "the Arabs," and not "WE." Fucking savages, "the Arabs." It's good... no, great, to be a white person, isn't it, Dave?

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:42 PM

Nice to be a compassionate human being who does not celebrate murder of any human being Lepus Rex I have not seen anyone dancing over the death of anyone here... Have You?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:43 PM

Considering that children around the world starve and die as a result, the loss of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi don't really rank in there with 'let's have a moment of silence for the guy' if ya know what I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,sick of hypocrites
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 01:51 PM

How about all the people starving to death in the world while we stuff our fat faces, buy monstrous 4x4s and pollute the atmosphere?


We're ALL (indirect?) murderers ...

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 01:55 PM

"We have met the enemy and he is us."
                        --Pogo

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 03:10 PM

Hmm, Rapaire

"I wish ALL the terrorists were dead, and I can't get too worked up over al-Zarqawi.

No matter who or what side they purport to be on."

Makes for an interesting view on Irish politics, no? Do England a favour and tow Ireland a bit further into the Atlantic before you sink it, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 03:24 PM

Not to single out the US--the below is from the news:

"The next $50 billion bridge fund, which lawmakers expect to cover about six months, would bring the cost of both wars to nearly $450 billion, and many expect that to reach $500 billion by the end of next year."

That kind of money applied to feeding folks could do a great deal of good.

Then there is this 'plea' on another site pertaining to Guatemala and a school project (feeding kids daily):

"How about asking each person for just $0.25 to feed one child one day?"

I don't know how to go about doing the math on this. Regardless, I do know that monies spent on weapons and war could be better put to feeding/educating/'healthifying' people. As I said at the top, this is not about the US. This is about all countries that pander to and frolic with "the masters of war". It's friggin' time we stopped. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 03:59 PM

Use the money for schools, libraries, health care, food, decent housing.

At USD 1.00 per meal, USD 450 billion would provide about seventy-five meals for every man, woman, and child on the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: number 6
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 04:02 PM

Well said Peace ... putting the money were it is much needed ... not into the war machines.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 04:15 PM

I work in Air Sea Rescue, imagine if I had just one aircraft carrier group and budget for one year to save lives? We just got a few hand held thermal imaging devices last year; our (Canadian) tanks have had them as gunsights for at least five years....

War is obscene, but you must defend yourselves when attacked.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 04:19 PM

True to that, Dave.

I just wonder how it would be if no money had gone into nuclear weapons (50,000 at a conservative estimate), and what good that could have done for kids/families all over the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 04:25 PM

Sir William Stephenson (Intrepid) said the same thing after WW2.

"We already have several global wars to fight , ignorance,starvation,disease,poverty, and there is enough glory for all in defeating these enemies"

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 04:29 PM

you must defend yourselves when attacked

Does everyone have this right, or just the Western hegemonic empire?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 04:38 PM

Everyone has the right CaroleC; but no-one has the right to murder by turning children and civilian aeroplanes into bombs, and killing innocent men women and children. Then celebrating the deaths by dancing in the street....No-one!

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: MarkS
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 04:43 PM

We did not even have the decency to file an environmental impact statement before we dropped the bombs.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 05:13 PM

So would have it been better for him to live and keep beheading innocent people? He certainly was not about to stop doing evil things.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 05:40 PM

but no-one has the right to murder by turning children and civilian aeroplanes into bombs, and killing innocent men women and children

But it's ok to kill innocent women and children with cluster bombs, landmines, and white phosphorus after saying about the insurgents, "bring em on".

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 05:41 PM

If we hadn't spent the money on nuclear weapons and other forms of defense...

a few, very few, bad guys with rusty machetes, dead bodies to put in wells, bamboo sticks and rocks could have taken over entirely. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 05:53 PM

Not too surprised that Dianavan isn't happy that al-Zarqawi is dead. It's not like he's really evil like Steven Harper and David Emerson, the Canadian politicians that she said she hopes the terrorists kill.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 07:02 PM

I just wonder how it would be if no money had gone into nuclear weapons (50,000 at a conservative estimate), and what good that could have done for kids/families all over the planet.

Probably by now there would have been several world wars, another 300 million dead, and fossil fuels would have been burned away fueling tens of thousands of warcraft, the death of democracy at home and abroad, and about ten new religions.

Meanwhile, no one would have gone to the moon, no United Nations, no technology gone to advancing medicine, computers would be a couple generations behind where they actually are, and rather than the societal frisson of dread over the end of civilization, would be the dull sense that somehow, somewhen, things could have been better, sorta like George Orwell's 1984.

And we'd all be in uniform.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 07:48 PM

Arne - 09 Jun 06 - 11:37 AM

"The Dubya maladministration had a chance to go after the Ansar al-Islam camps and Zarqawi (in the northern "no-fly" zone)"

Only trouble with that arguement is that Ansar al-Islam's camp was NOT in the Northern "No-Fly" Zone. The campe lies south-east of it and is conveniently close to the Iranian border to let those who have to skip across to avoid any unpleasantness.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 07:49 PM

Oh.