BS: Sky report from Washington DC

Subject: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 02:29 PM

Back again after a nearly 50 day absence are the chem trails (unique smoke screen like spray from large jets above 20,000 feet).***

They are back with a vengence. With polarized lenses one can see the pastel diffraction they produce. I have video taped the phenomemon for about 10 years now and have an example of every phase of the operation from turing on the valves to turning them off in mid flight.

Also back again are numerous low flights of the huge galaxy class military cargo jets in my area.



***Some believe these smoke screens are associated with Edward Teller's suggestion to limit the rising heat of climate change by relecting light away from the ground with man made clouds.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 02:53 PM

Even if it is so, Donuel - and I have no idea of it- what would be so bad about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 02:53 PM

Did you see the documentary about the 'real' flying saucers last night? Seems the air force worked VERY hard to make some, and tested 'em a lot!...maybe...


maybe they're back~!

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 03:38 PM

Jaysus....

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 04:23 PM

I've been following this for years, and here's the most credible scenario I've come across:

http://www.rense.com/general69/chem.htm

But then I heard Clifford Carnicom interviewed last night, and he didn't mention anything resembling the doomsday scenario outlined above. He's a bright guy though, and he's studied the hell out of this:

http://www.carnicom.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 04:40 PM

Sounds like contrails to me.

plain old ordinary contrails

In case you haven't heard Donuel, the U.S.A. is heavily involved in a war over in Iraq ... this war is putting a demand on the needs of the U.S. military in ways of various killing tools, food, medical supplies, beer, clothing and military and non-military personnel in large volumens never seen before in your country ... so, the most effective and quickest way to get these supplies over to Iraq is by jet airplane ... these jets will be flying over Washington and all over the U.S. in vast numbers at very high altitudes. Jet engines of these high flying aircraft emit contrails ... read the blue linky.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 12:41 AM

So, Donuel. I've been watching chemtrails for years. I remember one day seeing a fresh trail laid down at about 10,000 feet, and as I drove along, I saw what looked like a shadow forming beneath the trail. But as I drove it became obvious some dark particulate matter was separating from the white cloud and falling earthward (no wind that day, to disperse any of it). You ever seen one of those?

Carnicom said the barium salts are the most interesting aspect of the sprays. Apparently when the salts are combined with Tesla technology, this artifical second atmosphere of barium can be "lifted" to create explosive force beneath it. Equal to multiple hydrogen bombs but without any radiation, etc. He seemed to think the chemtrails are just those wacky arms manufacturers continuing to improve their systems.

But then the piece at Rense.com is really disturbing. The stuff about ethelyne dibromide and how it's being used to suppress our immune systems.

Have you reached any conclusions? Any hypotheses?

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 12:56 AM

Chemtrails refers to a conspiracy theory that the government is spraying chemicals in the air behind jets for some nefarious reason.

Anyway it is a money maker for the National Enquirer types.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: jeffp
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:45 AM

Actually, they're dihydrogen monoxid, a dangerous chemical which can cause death if inhaled in sufficient quantity.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:51 AM

not to mention being the universal solvent. That stuff will dissolve ANYTHING!!!!! Even the "noble" metals.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 01:42 PM

Hush! DHMO is a government sercret, and NOT to be talked about. The men in the silent black helicopters will get you...

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 01:54 PM

"Among the many commonly-sited DHMO-related environmental impacts are:

DHMO contributes to global warming and the "Greenhouse Effect", and is one of the so-called "greenhouse gasses."

DHMO is an "enabling component" of acid rain -- in the absence of sufficient quantities of DHMO, acid rain is not a problem.

DHMO is a causative agent in most instances of soil erosion -- sufficiently high levels of DHMO exacerbate the negative effects of soil erosion.

DHMO is present in nearly every creek, stream, pond, river, lake and reservoir in the U.S. and around the world.

Measurable levels of DHMO have been verified in ice samples taken from both the Arctic and Antarctic ice caps.

Recent massive DHMO exposures have lead to the loss of life and destruction of property in California, the Mid-West, the Philippines, and a number of islands in the Caribbean, to name just a few."


http://www.dhmo.org/

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 01:55 PM

"Dihydrogen Monoxide Conspiracy
Current allegations suggest that the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) may be conspiring to cover up the whole DHMO issue. Attempts by DHMO researchers to elicit comment from the EPA regarding the possible coverup were either ignored or dodged, leading researchers to infer the alleged coverup. Incredibly, the EPA then attempted to divert attention from the real issue onto talk of the aesthetics and layout of the EAC's DMRD web site!


EPA Refuses to Confirm or Deny Coverup
In spite of a direct query for information, the EPA refused to deny the existence of a coverup. The researcher, who reported to us under conditions of anonymity, sent correspondence asking if the EPA knows more about Dihydrogen Monoxide than it is telling us.
Point Blank Questions Ignored
The researcher went on to ask, point blank, "Are you asking me to participate in some sort of coverup?" And, "Do you deny that the EPA is purposely keeping quiet on the issue of Dihydrogen Monoxide?" For whatever reason, the EPA would not say, offering no comment on the questions at all.
EPA Saber Rattling
However, in a strongly worded reply, the EPA did seemingly go on the offensive with statements such as:
"The Agency would like to ask you to remove [certain information].",

"The point is, if your visitors are in any way led to the impression that EPA is endorsing your site, that is not good for either of us.",

"I hope you see our point of view",

"We take our mission of protecting the environment seriously", and

"We consider this a serious matter and would appreciate your help."
Some may find these heavy handed statements shocking. The wording of the EPA's correspondence with the researcher are filled with these sorts of anachronisms; one would expect such talk from a movie gangster, but not from a taxpayer-funded agency of the United States government.
Draw Your Own Conclusions
There is certainly no doubt that the Dihydrogen Monoxide issue touched a nerve at the US EPA. And while sources at the EPA admit to the benefits of freely distributing information to the public on DHMO, they stop short of admitting to a coverup. Perhaps there really is no coverup. Or maybe the EPA's silence confirms its existence. It is clear that the EPA is putting no effort into educating the public about the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is also clear that the truth may forever be obscured, so for now the reader is left to reach his or her own conclusions regarding the possible conspiracy at the EPA to coverup the DHMO issue. "

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 02:30 PM

Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year.

What are the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide?

Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death.

Dihydrogen Monoxide Facts

Dihydrogen monoxide:

is also known as hydric acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
contributes to the Greenhouse Effect.
may cause severe burns.
contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Dihydrogen Monoxide Alerts

Contamination is reaching epidemic proportions!
Quantities of dihydrogen monoxide have been found in almost every stream, lake, and reservoir in America today. But the pollution is global, and the contaminant has even been found in Antarctic ice. In the midwest alone DHMO has caused millions of dollars of property damage.

Dihydrogen Monoxide Uses

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:
as an industrial solvent and coolant.
in nuclear power plants.
in the production of styrofoam.
as a fire retardant.
in many forms of cruel animal research.
in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
as an additive in certain junk-foods and other food products.
Stop the horror - Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide
Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer!

THE HORROR MUST BE STOPPED!

The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or use of this damaging chemical due to its importance to the economic health of this nation. In fact, the navy and other military organizations are conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Hundreds of military research facilities receive tons of it through a highly sophisticated underground distribution network. Many store large quantities for later use.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE!

Act NOW to prevent further contamination. Find out more about this dangerous chemical. What you don't know CAN hurt you and others throughout the world.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 02:40 PM

Almost all organic solvents are poisonous and can cause death if inhaled in sufficient quantity.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 02:47 PM

How Gullible Are We?

Dihydrogen monoxide is H2O

In 1997, Nathan Zohner, a 14-year-old student at Eagle Rock Junior High School in Idaho Falls, based his science fair project on a report similar to the one reproduced above. Zohner's project, titled "How Gullible Are We?", involved presenting this report about "the dangers of dihyrogen monoxide" to fifty ninth-grade students and asking them what (if anything) should be done about the chemical. Forty-three students favored banning it, six were undecided, and only one correctly recognized that 'dihydrogen monoxide' is actually H2O — plain old water. Zohner's analysis of the results he obtained won him first prize in the Greater Idaho Falls Science Fair; garnered him scads of attention from newspapers, magazines, radio and TV stations, universities, and congresspeople; and prompted the usual round of outcries about how our ignorant citizenry doesn't read critically and can be easily misled. In other words, a tempest in a teapot.

Zohner's project wasn't original: spoof petitions about dihydrogen monoxide and other innocuous "dangers" have been circulating for years, and Zohner based his project on a bogus report that was already making the rounds of the Internet. Moreover, Zohner's target audience was ninth-graders, a group highly susceptible to allowing peer pressure to overwhelm critical thinking. Thrust any piece of paper at the average high school student with a suggestion about what the "correct" response to it should be, and peer pressure pretty much assures you'll get the answer you're looking for. Someone that age isn't very likely to read a friend's petition calling for the banning of whale hunting and critically evaluate the socio-economic and environmental impact of such a regulation. Instead, he's probably going to say to himself, "This issue is obviously important to my friend, and he must have some good reasons for circulating the petition, so I'll sign it."

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 03:43 PM

That was fun. Now that you've had your fun with H2O, 'splain Ethelyne Dibromide. You'll have to go back to the article near the start:

http://www.rense.com/general69/chem.htm

Fill me in on the humor in that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: jeffp
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 05:07 PM

antiknock gasoline additive

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:32 PM

True story: Someone put a version of the dihydrogen monoxide expose'
in our company lunchroom. A department supervisor read it, swallowed it completely as serious material, and went on an absolute rampage about whoever was circulating "communist, environmentalist" material. (He also ranted when someone distributed "communist" Earth Day tee shirts one year.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 10:20 PM

"antiknock gasoline additive" didn't make me laugh. Try again. Why is ethelyne dibromide being sprayed in big, fat plumes in the skies above the developed countries of the world?

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 10:23 PM

No, it's not funny ... ethelyne dibromide is mainly used in anti-knock gasoline mixtures, particularly in aviation fuel.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:17 AM

"Ethylene Dibromide is one of the most toxic chemical pesticides ever developed, and also the first to be banned for all uses that would bring it in contact with the environment or any human being. While it would supposedly be burned up in a hot jet engine, it was little wonder the vapor that escaped during aircraft refueling and cold engine starts was damaging people's health..."

The article says the stuff was added to jet fuel to cut down on its flamability. Bogus science. Skyrocketing cancer rates around airports in cold climates. Then the sale of fuel pumps not coinciding with orders for new planes, so those pumps went into existing planes. That's what you see now...the secondary tanks being emptied over your heads. We are insects to the people who are going to release the pandemic. Our immune systems are being suppressed with a hellacious pesticide. This should make the global kill-off pretty uniform (poor hygiene infrastructure in the third world will create more virulent pockets of sickness, but the western world needs a little help. A little "leg up" as the queen whore might say. With her Saxe-Coburg Nazi husband who thinks we're "useless feeders" and says 90% of us need to die). Pesticide. Geez.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Pauline L
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:51 AM

Beardedbruce, thanks for telling us about the DHMO website. I would like to point out that there are benefits, as well as risks, of DHMO. DHMO is essential for life, and, without it, there would be no chocolate. I believe that the benefits outweigh the risks.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Pauline L
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:34 AM

Here is some information I gathered from HSDB (Hazardous Substance Database), a widely used and respected scientific database. I contributed a little bit to it, but that doesn't bias me.    :-)

Ethylene dibromide was widely used as a soil and post-harvest fumigant until the mid 1980s, when EPA cancelled approval for this use because of concerns about oncogenicity, mutagenicity, and reproductive effects. (It must be really bad if EPA did something about it.) It is classified as a probable human carcinogen and a known animal carcinogen. It is still used as a crop or soil fumigant in other countries, notably India, where its use is controversial. Its current primary legal use in the US is as an exhaust system scavenger in gasolines containing lead antiknocks. Other legal uses in the US are in the manufacturing of dyes, pharmaceuticals, polymers, and other chemicals and as a general solvent for resins, waxes, gums, and dyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washington DC
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:29 AM

I have no personal proof as to the chemical make up of what I call smoke screens, although I have read many different analysis of the phenomenon. Nor have I made any value judgments as to the safety or dangers of such a program.

I do have the paper in which Edward Teller first proposed the spraying program. I have witnessed a perfectly blue sky turn into a hazy blusih white sky in as little as 45 minutes as a direct result from as few as 3 jet trails that spread rapidly over the entire sky.

The most clearcut difference from a con trail that dissipates in about a minute from a spray trail is that the spray begins to lool like it is growing teeth like a comb to one side or another within 30 seconds from its release. Within 10 minutes the trail widens to about a quarter mile. Depending on the altitude and wind the trail appears to cover up to miles within an hour.

As a sky watcher all my life I recall with great detail the first chem trail I saw on a crisp February morning in 1995.
People now in their twenties have no adult memory to know how the sky and con trails should actually look.
Kids who are up to 15 years of age have no frame of reference whatsoever as to the changed nature of the sky and the added chem trails.

That some people 30 years of age and older have not noticed the change is troubling to me. I strikes me as sad that some people are so unobservant as to not even see what has happened to their sky.


_______________________________


As to why there was a 50 day cessation of the smoke screen trails, I can only speculate.


? The trails were catalysing too much percipitation.

? The flooding rain patterns in the Eastern USA provided so much cloud cover that man made clouds were not required.

? The logistics to create the spray campaign broke down.



Allowing a precious few clear blue skies this summer when people are outside much of time was still much appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:36 AM

Donuel - humidity and teperature conditions can make contrails act in the manner you call "chem trails".

I remember seeing this phenomenon as far back as the early 60's. That you never noticed it before 1995 makes me wonder just how detialed a sky watcher you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 12:25 PM

I see them (contrails) all the time here in the skies over the Fundy coast ... we are directly under the flight path for all eastern seaboard sourced flights on their way to and fro from Europe.

Since ethelyne dibromide is a common additive to aviation fuel ... I'm sure some of it is being spewd out in the jet exhaust ... certainly is not a comforting thought, but I'm skeptical of any such conspiracies surrounding it.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 12:41 PM

I am aware that a contrail can last a long time under certain conditions of humidity, temperature and altitude. I am also aware that it is a relatively rare occurence.
There is a website in which airline and military pilots submit their breathtaking photos of certain remarkable con trails.

I am also aware that Mario is not concerned in the least about my observatinal skills but rather relishes ad hominim rhetoric.

...

Conspiricy = to breath together

Indeed we are all breathing it together.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 12:52 PM

you assume that. I honestly wonder how it is possible if you are a sky watcher how you could have FAILED to see this before 1995. It is not as rare an occurance as you try to make it. contrails can persist for hours. Likewise, given the appropriate conditions contrails will rapidly spread out along the previaling wind directions and can lead to an overcast sky quite rapidly.

All easily explained by natural conditions - which were gone into in great detail when I was taking my meteorology classes back in the '70's; so the information is certainly still available.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:00 PM

You do not ask to see my video, nor do you seem interested in the slightest by other evidence of this unique phenomenon. You seem quite ridgid in your status quo pre ordained opinion, so I consider your input to this discussion to be already set in stone.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:03 PM

"Eager for any scrap of information, we did not miss the announcement that Boeing had received a huge and apparently unexpected order for refueling pumps although no new tankers were being built. When the forerunners of a substantial fleet of leased commercial cargo craft, often from unlikely locations, appeared on the scene and demonstrated that they could spray fuel or just ethylene dibromide and perhaps water (the trail stays visible for only 20 plane-lengths or so), we knew where the pumps went. And when the airlines announced that an unexpected increase in the cost of jet fuel was causing them to add a fuel surcharge to the price of a ticket, we knew where the extra jet fuel was going, too...."

http://www.rense.com/general69/chem.htm

Ethelyne dibromide was added to fuel as a "fire retardant" and pitched as an "anti-knock" ingredient once the population reduction crowd hit on the idea of a pandemic. How to suppress immune systems, though? "Let's tell people this highly lethal pesticide is now a 'fuel ingredient'." General back-slapping and laughter all around. "Yeah, just like we convinced them the crap we fed the Jews at Auschwitz to make them docile would stop tooth decay if we put it in water. What was that stuff? Oh, yeah, stannis fluoride." So redundant fuel pumps were ordered and installed in all large commercial and military jets. And today, over Texas, we see X's and Z's and all kinds of sky painting. And when I point it out to people (dozens of lines in the sky, some of them dotted from being turned on and off), people say, "I didn't notice that before." And the weathermen in my area refuse to talk about it on the phone or answer emails about it. Our professional "skywatchers" know their jobs depend on not mentioning the fumigation. How sick is that? We are being fumigated like cockroaches, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:10 PM

I don't know how old you are, Donuel, but given the fact that your child(ren) are young you may not have started watching the skies until fairly recently. I'll cut you some slack for that.

What does bother me is that on occasion you post 'facts' that are at variance with what I myself know- and other 'facts' that you don't bother to document.

In addition, it bothers me when the first explanation a person comes up with - and repeatedly - is a conspiracy. Look to the natural and logical first and some of us will be more comfortable.

MMario is not a person who is unwilling to accept the new or unusual so when he posts information that adds or refutes information already given, I would listen.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:20 PM

Donuel - I am willing to accept that what occurs under natural conditions could be duplicated by a conspiracy; however Occam's Razor applies.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 03:29 PM

There were a couple of threads on this three or four years ago, and undoubtedly they'll be back again in another three or four years. Conspiracy theories such as this, like urban myths, are next to impossible to kill. No matter how much evidence you bury them in, they keep coming back. People seem to have a real fondness for them.

The first contrails began to appear in the late 1940s when the first high-altitude jets like the military B-47s and B-52s, and commercial 707s went into service. If someone hasn't noticed them until recently, they haven't been looking. I remember seeing contrails—lots of them—in the mid-Fifties when the first SAC B-52s went into service, and sometimes whole squadrons of B-52s would fly over at very high altitudes.

My brother-in-law was a pilot for Northwest Airlines, now retired, and before that, he flew F-89 Scorpions in the Montana Air National Guard. My nephew followed in his father's footsteps, started out as a bush pilot in Alaska, and now flies for Southwest Airlines. They've both made a lot of contrails. When atmospheric conditions are right in the upper atmosphere (at the altitude where most commercial jets fly), water vapor—condensation—forms behind the engines. If there are high winds at that altitude, they dissipate fairly quickly, if not, they may hang around for awhile, gradually "fuzzing out" before they fade away. They are "chemtrails" only in the sense that there may be hydrocarbons from unburned jet fuel mixed in with the water vapor. The same kind of emissions come from automobile engines.

Now, I don't deny that there are conspiracies and other evil forces at work trying to do us in, and we do need to be constantly vigilant. They're called "politicians."

"The Chemtrail Conspiracy" falls into the category of "Daddy! Daddy! Something under my bed is drooling!"

Here's the skinny.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: number 6
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:35 PM

In case anyone is interested I posted a blue clicky to a site explaining contrails. See my post to this thread on 25 Jul 06 - 04:40 PM.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST,Bunnahabhain
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 11:45 AM

I'm currently under a point where the flight paths for all four of Londons airports cross, and have lived in this area for 10 years. The point is, I see alot of contrails, at a wide variety of altitudes, and as the British wather is very variable, under many atmospheric contitions. The supposed 'chem trails' look just like normal contrails.

If there's a conspiricy to pump eythele dibromide into the atmosphere to poision us, then presumably there is some way to prevent it affecting us, or the conspiritors are poisioning themselves. Or are there a large nuber of people walking about in gas masks I've not noticed? Is there some other measure we can take, like tinfoil hats?

Re all those extra fuel pumps, isn't it possible that the airlines are simply replacing the fuel pumps in their existing planes, as you might do in a routine mainternanace programme?

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 01:42 PM

No. First came the orders for the pumps, then the increase in clouds. These aren't contrails (rapidly dissipating ice crystals), these are fat plumes that hang for hours and feather out. They've been tested. They contain barium salts, etylene dibromide, polymer strands, aluminum, etc., etc., etc. The polymer strands comb out and drag macrobacteria down to the earth's surface, where they don't belong. The presences of metals and crystals suggests some electronic intention, but the ethylene dibromide is more problematic. And more problematic still is the use of depleted uranium in bombs and artillery shells around the world. And irreversible genetic modification of foods. It truly does appear that people (the Democrat/Republican party in the US, others elsewhere) are out to kill off humanity. Because they're doing this to their OWN kids too. This is the most baffling thing I've ever come across. It's nearly as baffling as the people who look at the same scientific evidence I do and conclude it's just a "conspiracy theory." But those folks are just cowards. They're a dime a dozen. But the people who've come up with this kill-off program...I can't fathom the mentality behind that.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 03:13 PM

"They've been tested." By whom, GUEST?

A pretty extensive search of the internet shows a lot of articles and comments on this matter. But they all trace back to a guy named Ken Welch. He's all over the internet, and almost everything said about chemtrails by other people refer to stuff that Welch has written and posted.

You say, "It's nearly as baffling as the people who look at the same scientific evidence I do and conclude it's just a 'conspiracy theory.' But those folks are just cowards."

Not so. So far, I have seen no "scientific evidence," only unsupported assertions; assertions I have heard, off and on with variations, for decades. This claim that contrails are actually "chemtrails" has been around for decades (started not long after the first jets went into widespread service), and seems to fit in very well with, and indeed were—and are—promulgated by the same kind of people who maintain that there was a mysterious rifleman on the grassy knoll, that the government is covering up what they really know about UFOs, that the government is trying to turn our brains to mush and make us obedient slaves by putting fluoride in our drinking water, that the government is. . . .   Well, you get the idea. There is nothing "cowardly" about being skeptical of these kinds of assertions when there is no actual believable evidence to back them up.

What I want to know, GUEST, is who tested the precipitate from these alleged "chemtrails?" Two or more established scientific laboratories who came to the same conclusions independently? Some kid with a chemistry set? Or is it just speculations and assumptions growing out of a paranoid personality?

And I also want to know who Ken Welch is. Former intelligence agent? Government whistle-blower? An obscure op-ed writer seeking notoriety? Some paranoiac who spends most of his time hiding under his bed? Who is he and what qualifications does he have to back up what he says?

And, for that matter—who are YOU?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 04:54 PM

The linked article first discusses the history of the claims then ends with this:

"The lab discovered 'Pseudomona flourescens', 'Enterobacter cloacae', and 'Serratia marcescens', one of the 'simulants' the 'London Telegraph' reported the British 'Ministry of Defence' sprayed from a ship over Dorset's population during the 1970s. Bio-warfare proponents are bolstered by Dr. Leonard Cole (Rutgers University), who testified before the US Senate about army vulnerability testing staged between 1949-1969 (and still today at Salt Lake City's 'Dugway Proving Ground').

"Agents released 'simulants' later found to be toxic from cars' exhaust pipes, wind-powered suitcases, boats, and even light-bulbs thrown New York City subway cars' tracks to test domestic vulnerability to bio-chemical warfare attacks. With proven records of populace testing behind 'Clouds of Secrecy', what's to cast doubt on contemporary high altitude spraying claims?

"Lack of evidence for one. No chemtrail conspiracy proponent has released documented lab tests of the trails' composition. Thomas still hasn't published his 'EPA' lab test results anywhere. A 'New Mexico' newspaper interviewer quoted him saying he would do so if offered grants large enough to launch proper investigations. More questionable still is his chemtrail remedy pills business. Cole isn't aware of any modern jet plane testing and considers it unlikely the military would test at such heights: results would be difficult to track over such wide areas. The aviation science underlying claims is also problematic, according to marine turbine engineer Jay Reynolds, the most notable chemtrail debunker: "If you pass almost any chemical through a gas turbine engine, the combustion temperature is like 2000 degrees. Nothing survives: it's an incinerator."

"Thomas has alluded to Air Force weather modification projects and the infamous 'HAARP'. But NASA's 'Atmospheric Effects of Aviation Project' (AEAP) determined heavy contrail activity over a New England commercial flight path is responsible for 2% more cloudiness than normal.

"The chemtrail community mirrors the UFOlogy underworld before 'The X-Files': explanatory reports are shared on message boards and poorly designed web-sites; believers continually cross-cite their work whilst including scant outside research. Debunkers are dismissed as government agents. Before missiles are aimed at unmarked jets, let's hope lab results are handy!"

A Dispassionate Look

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 10:26 PM

I am wondering what a "wind-powered suitcases" is.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 11:23 PM

It is easier and less expensive to modify weather than it is to cut greenhouse gases. People are aware that it's an area to explore. That is, both the Senate and The House of Representatives know about the possibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Sky report from Washinton DC
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 11:35 PM

Yep. Normal contrails for sure. More normal contrails. And yet more normal contrails.

Nervoue Nellies. There you have three photos of normal contrails. Relax. They are NORmal.