Real Ale v Lager

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: kendall
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:40 PM

Here we see a good example of opinions being put forth as facts. Personally, I couldn't care less how it is brewed,what they put in it or how it gets from the cellar to the bar! It all smacks of snobbery to me.

I drink Heinekens as a rule, but I also like Guinness and Fosters, and the only FACT here is, it doesn't matter a damn what I prefer!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:44 AM

Love to you too, Old Peculiar :-)

Actually the beer's spelt "Old Peculier" - but I agree, it's good stuff! Could do with a pint of that right now. Or even XB would do... OK, Best then...? :-)

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:38 AM

Real ale definately,lager gives me terrible heartburn.Love old peculiar.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:13 AM

Well, John Courage, what goes around comes around. I see your ale is now made by a former rival brewery. The ale must have moved about 5 or 6 times now. No wonder it never tastes the same twice.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Harry Truman
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 09:12 PM

Yes you scotch, french, protestant hybrid. You messed up the irish invention (whiskey) and likewise the Englsh one (beer) Charles Mopps is rolling in his grave!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,John Courage
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 09:09 PM

Yes I bought up all the decent brewries Symonds of Reading, Barclay Perkins of Southwark, John Smith Of Tadcaster. Ha ha!!!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 04:32 AM

Are not "real ales" unpasteurized, and therefore somewhat cloudy as opposed to the clear ales the big breweries put out because people don't want to drink cloudy beer? Any unpasteurized real ales I've tasted have been delicious.

Not true - I only normally go to pubs that serve real ale. If the person in charge of the beer is doing their job then there should be no cloudiness whatsoever. This takes a certain modicum of skill.

If the beer arrives in sealed metal dustbins, this does not take any amount of skill.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM

A couple of weeks ago, there was chaos here (Reading UK) due to a chemical leak at a large Scottish Courage brewery resulting in seven employees being admitted to hospital and the neighbouring motorway being closed for several hours. The chemical in question was ammonia which goes a long way to explain why their lager tastes like piss.

If it wasn't in poor taste (like Courage beer), I would say it gave them a dose of their own medicine. But I won't :-)

I'm old enough to remember the original Courage brewery in Reading (formerly Symonds, before being gobbled up by Courage and eventually being closed down when they built that monstrous fizz factory on the M4). That Reading ale used to be damn good stuff, and it's what I was weaned on. I used to drink their ales in Hants and Berks, and when I went up to London I was surprised to find the ale tasted worse, not realising at first that the London stuff came from the Southwark brewery (also long gone now). It was before CAMRA was started, and the time I realised there was more to this real ale lark than I had previously thought.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Masterson
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 04:24 AM

In our 'green' and pleasant modern society, it surely can't be long before the big brewers try to tell us the reason they manufacture (they sure don't brew it) pseudo-lager under license in the UK is to 'reduce the carbon footprint' by not having to import it! 'Cos we all know they have our best interests at heart…

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: eddie1
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 03:08 AM

A couple of weeks ago, there was chaos here (Reading UK) due to a chemical leak at a large Scottish Courage brewery resulting in seven employees being admitted to hospital and the neighbouring motorway being closed for several hours. The chemical in question was ammonia which goes a long way to explain why their lager tastes like piss.

Having read above about other additives going into beer, would it not be possible for breweries to produce a decent, unadulterated brew. Pubs could then provide on the bar, dishes containing maize, rice, sugar, betaglucanase, propylene glycol alginate and rat droppings together with jugs of urine which drinkers could then add to their personal preference.
This way, we would have a choice of taste instead of having to accept what the large breweries foist on us.

Eddie

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 10:19 AM

http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/82/90/e9_1.JPG

Are not "real ales" unpasteurized, and therefore somewhat cloudy as opposed to the clear ales the big breweries put out because people don't want to drink cloudy beer? Any unpasteurized real ales I've tasted have been delicious.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:36 AM

No time to read the whole thread (not seen before by me) but you can get real lager too. It's just that most of the rubbish lager in yer average pub isn't real.

Me, I stick to real ale if I can get it. Or real cider. Otherwise I usually drink Guinness.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: woodsie
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:27 PM

Aaagh - I'd love a pint right now!!!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: number 6
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:47 AM

Dave-O ... 17% ... jeeeezuz H. !!! ... at that kick it should be classified as 'hard liquor'

biLL

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:45 AM

*sigh*...haven't had a Cooper's in years. The importers make business decisions on criteria other than taste.

I get good beer, but I do miss some things.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:44 AM

In 1954 I was in North Germany, driving with friends from the Rheinpfalz to Belgium. We stopped for lunch at a local gasthaus (I have no idea of the town or gasthaus name), and enjoyed some of their own "bier".

It was billed as "Die Strengste Bier Die Welt" (The strongest beer in the world, for you non-German-speakers.) 17 percent!

It was good stuff, too, to the palate of a young American who, only about ten months before (pre-Germany) would have told you he didn't like beer. I had only begun my education in beer. I was happy, though, that I was not the one who had to drive from that point on!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 02:51 AM

G'day Bob again.

Hmm - I didn't think I had the words to that one. I don't have "My Shout" - only "My Shout Again". It's a bit of an unfortunate gap in my collection :-(

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 01:07 AM

Err... G'day again,

That post did a runner while I was still formatting the song lyrics!

Anyway, I just felt like dropping in one (musical) suggestion for a request ... well above ... for good ale in Australia. (Actually - bottled Cooper's is often called "Murray* Mud" by us eastern-staters, because of its visible yeast residue but, with careful handling and pouring it's a fine (carefully) poured from the bottle.)

John Dengate's song was published by me in John's 1982 collection of songs and poetry My Shout!, Bush Music Club, Sydney, 1982.

*The Murray is a major Australian river flowing from the Snowy Mountains west and south,through our major irrigation areas, for (~)2590 kilometres until it reaches Lake Alexandrina and then The Great Australian Bight, near Adelaide, South Australia. I think (hope...) Cooper's actually have a cleaner water source than that!

Cooper's is a good drop ... and they put up a nice wort for home brewers. Quite a lot of drinkable home-brew "Cooper's" have I enjoyed!

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 12:44 AM

Yeah Bob - good stuff, the Coopers. We might get him to sing it tomorrow night when we're over at his place. We're doing New Years Eve with the Dengates this year, and I'm sure there'll be a lot more than some Coopers being downed ;-)

Happy New Year Bob!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 12:38 AM

G'day all & sundry,



Coopers Sparkling Ale

Tune: The Work of the Weavers (Scots, trad.)         Words: John Dengate

Before they hanged Ned Kelly in the gaol,
To make dead certain that his nerve didn't fail -
He drank a glass of COOPERS SPARKLING ALE
And he laughed in the face of the troopers.
CHORUS: It's Australia's best; we all agree,
        If it wasn't for the Coopers where would we be?
        We'd have to drink the residue of bogus chemistry
        If it wasn't for the brew of the Coopers.

So fill up your tankards my thirsty gents;
It's the only way to spend your dollars and your cents.
And it's made from natural ingredients -
There's health in the brew of the Coopers.
CHORUS:        It's Australia's best; we all agree…

It's throw away your cocoa and your lemonade
And toast the masters of the brewing trade.
They're the pride of the city of Adelaide;
Trust your thirst to the Coopers.
CHORUS:        It's Australia's best; we all agree…

If you want to stay healthy and you want to live,
Take heed of the sensible advice I give -
Steer clear of the chemical preservative
And stick to the brew of the Coopers.
LAST CHORUS
Don't throw away your money in the grocers' shops!
Don't squander your wages on mutton chops!
But save your money for the malt and hops
In the true blue brew of the Coopers.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: woodsie
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:24 PM

I could do with a drink!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:01 AM

Its a sight longer than that since I've had one..... just circustances really...I'm not trying to steer away from it!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:58 AM

I haven't had one since last night but I'm ready for one now, bloody hungry as well now.

eric

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:45 AM

...& a big lump of fatty bacon...

Now you mention it, yes I learnt it as 'glorious'

Dammit, I fancy a pint now...havent had one in bloody ages!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:39 AM

Thats it Paul, I got the other one wrong as well, should be ' Glorious ale '

Take all teetotallers, they drinks water neat,
It must rot their gutses, and give 'em damp feet,
But I allus say that a man cannot fail,
On boiled beef and cabbages, and good ENGLISH ALE.

I love it, in fact I think I'll have some t'neet.

eric

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:02 AM

Eric, I learnt it as "Oh GOOD ale, thou art my darling" ....which sems particularly apt at the moment!

*G*

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 02:57 AM

Oh ale thou art my darling,
Thou art my joy both night and morning.

Ale, ale beautiful ale,
Served up in pewter it tells it's own tale.

Love it all, eric

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 06:37 PM

Brewing with hops was imported from Flanders in the 14thC. Prior to that hops were not used in England as they were believed to promote melancholy (before you get smart, go & look up the medieval theory of humours).

It's not a strict definition, but if you think of ale as non-hopped & beer as hopped, many people, particularly re-enactors, will understand. This is distinct from the term Real Ale (which I hate!), & also distinct from the technical & biological difference between an ale yeast & a lager yeast.

Ere hops, many things were used to bitter beer, but none of them had the preservative qualities of hops. The two that immediately spring to mind are ground ivy (NOT poison!) & alecost (Tanacetum balsamita, IIRC). The latter I have in my garden. It smells very strongly of mint, but imparts a lemony flavour to your brew. No brew, hopped or othrwise, would taste much like anything modern. If you can find & brew (approximately) to a medieval recipe, though, I recommend you do. They're different. Perhaps not to your taste, but try it & see...

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: bobad
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 04:47 PM

If you get the chance do try John Sleeman's India Pale Ale, it is quite hoppy and full flavoured with a slight kick at 5.3% ABV. Sleeman's brewery has just been bought by Sapporo of Japan so don't know what the future will bring.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 04:39 PM

ah..well, then you & I could share a few things, but I DO enjoy that slightly sweeter taste at times. What I REALLY like is the 'sharp' taste of extra hops along with some sweetness.

We wouldn't waste any Creemore Springs, though!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: bobad
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 03:37 PM

BillD, I must concur with you assessment of Creemore Springs lager, I am sipping my first as I type and I do agree that it is one fine lager. It is rich and full of flavour with a very fine carbonation and creamy head. My only slight, and very minor, quibble is that I find it a tad sweet for my taste - but that is my taste which tends to lean toward a drier quaff suh as Urquel Pilsner.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: woodsie
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 01:07 PM

Ale, Beer, Stout, Lager - I love 'em all!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 05:08 PM

I guess you would know, Euro...

Anyway. Another interesting point (miss-spelt pint?). I also heard that the clear beers, came originaly from Bohemia because of the fasion for Bohemian crytal drinking vessels. Prior to that beer (or ale!) had been served in Pewter, pot, leather, wood and all sorts of things you couldn't see through. When the crystal tankard came out it was decided that the beer needed to be clear as well, to show off the glass. The first people to achieve this with any sucess were the brewers in Pilsen. So, originaly, Pilsner was a fasion acessory!

Probably complete cobblers but just goes to show what amazing stuff beer is. I could study it all night:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 06:08 PM

Well as you can guess from my nickname, I've drunk beer all over the world. I love brown ale, mild and bitter from the UK. Amongst the best is Harveys Best Bitter,from Lewis in Sussex; and Tsingtao beer from China.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 05:48 PM

DtG....Rodenbach..YUM! I haven't had one for years....also BIOS Copper Ale is an 'interesting' Belgian specialty. At one point they plunge a red-hot Copper coil into the wort, which gives a fascinating tang to the brew.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 05:35 PM

DtG, your use of "ale" and "beer" intrigued me. The link you gave was for another discussion site, and the users did not really give credit to their source, so , I had to dig further!

Apparently, the distinction of "beer" and "ale" is apparently unique to England! You were 100% correct about the addition of hops. Up until about 1300, the English were drinking "ale" - which was an unhopped brew. I doubt if modern drinkers would recognize it though! It

The English were relative latecomers to the hops experience. Hops had been introduced several centuries earlier. Also, in some of the Baltic countries the word for beer is "alus" , in Estonian it is ölu, in Finnish it's olut,the Swedes call it öl, and the Norwegian and Danish word for beer is øl!   

For more information, I would like to direct you to Michael Jackson's website. No, not the pop singer with all the problems, this is Michael Jackson "The Beer Hunter". He has authored several books on beer, hosted a television series, and if you ever have a chance to attend a tasting that he supervises - go for it!! Here is a page on his website that discusses the above - http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-001511.html

Now I am thirsty again!!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 04:48 PM

There you go , Ron.

You are quite right in saying that hops were not the only addition - In fact it is hops that give beer it's soporiphic quality more that the alcohol. There have been beers brewed with, for instance, the oils of other plants that have just the opposite effect - Including Hemp!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 01:22 PM

DtG - I am not sure if I agree with you when you say "Beer only came into being when hops were added".   I've never heard that and I would be curious as to the source.

Beer is a generic term which probably derives from a Latin word for drink. As you noted, at one point all beer was unhopped but the addition of the plant did not change the name. There was a type of beer brewed in ancient Egypt. While they did not add hops, they added other plants for flavor.   Germans were the first to start using it, as you mentioned for a preservative. The UK was rather late coming to the table to use hops.   Regardless, all of it can and was labled "beer". Ale may have been a more common term if that was the only style availble in the region, but it was still beer.   Sort of like calling a tissue "Kleenex".

Do you know why they started adding lime to beer?   Here in the U.S., Mexican beer became popular in the late 50's and 60's when surfers in California would travel down to Mexico to buy cheap beer. At the time, Corona was available very cheap. The legend has it that the lime was added either to give it some taste, or in an attempt to keep flies out of the brew!   Somewhere along the line, the cheap Corona's became a bit of a status symbol, and now the crap is served as a premium!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 01:06 PM

Errrr, Ron, I don't think ANY Europeans believe that. Aside from putting a slice of lemon into Blanche Biers I have never seen anyone adulterate either beer or lager since the ladies used to put lime in lager and blackcurrent in Guiness in the 1960s. Oh - apart from the strange habit that seems to have come across with the Mexican lagers of drinking out of a b0ttle with a wedge of lime stuck in it.

As to they are all beers... Well, it may be so now but originaly Ale was un-hopped. Beer only came into being when hops were added - Originaly as a preservative! The sub-genres of beer now known as ale and lager are just different ways of fermenting and storing.

I, for one, am not limited to one style but I certainly prefer dark beers over pale ones. The scope is vast - From Rodenbach to Manns brown ale. But you are quite right in one thing - There is good and bad in most things and the good should be enjoyed whatever form it takes:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Historian
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 01:01 PM

Well said Ron.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 12:43 PM

"Lager looks like urine smells like urine and causes urine; and Europeans have to put lime in it to give it flavour."

Europeans don't know their ass from their elbow if they believe that crap.   That is just another example of ignorance and the fact that they were suckered into believing elist snobs commercial campaigns.

There are good lagers and there are bad lagers. There are good ales and there are bad ales. ALL of it is beer. If your taste buds are limited to one style, I pity you.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 12:10 PM

BARLEY - "Which any fool can eat, but for which the good Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give thanks and praise His bounty by brewing beer." -- attr. Friar Tuck, 1196 A.D.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 07:37 PM

Half the time you would not know what you were drinking

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 08:18 AM

From another site (Brew like a monk)

"Nonetheless, Leffe grabbed a bronze medal as a lager in the recently judged Brewing Industry International Awards in Munich. This is one of the most esteemed international competitions."

It is the fermenation temperature and type of yeast (top or bottom fermenting) that determines the 'lager' title. I believe Leffe is fermented for 2 weeks which, although shorter than some lagers, is considerably longer than most beers.

So I hold up my hands - I don't know which it is realy!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 08:07 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leffe

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 08:04 AM

I didn't think Leffe was a lager.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 06:51 AM

Bit unfair, Dave (tam), on good brews like Leffe, Bitburger and Jenlain but I can see where you are coming from:-) Perhaps if the English stick to bitters and milds, leaving our European cousins to the lagers, we would not get such abominations as Skol and Carling!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 06:39 AM

Lager is only suitable for irrigating a bunch Vikings STD ridden urethras, or clearing out kidney stones. Real Ale tastes good, is dark,carries a frothy foam head down the glass, and smells like beer should with a pleasant aroma. Lager looks like urine smells like urine and causes urine; and Europeans have to put lime in it to give it flavour.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 06:19 AM

Try for yourself. Why believe what other people tell you?

DtG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Abbot
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 06:15 AM

What is best then?

My mate tells me lager is best and that you lot need your taste budz examined!