Playing kletzmer music (klezmer)

Subject: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Gary
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 09:51 AM

Advice sought ....

Having heard & enjoyed a little Kletzmer music I'm starting to play little (on english concertina)

I'd like to include a few tunes at sessions, 2 guidelines have come to mind,

1 - don't play in public until I can do a good job

2 - research the tune & don't play anything that would be disrespectful

However, I know very little about Judaism, & don't know anybody that I know is Jewish, so don't have anyone to ask.

In terms of tunes to possibly play publically, I'm thinking of the lively, celebratory ?wedding tunes.

Any information would be gratefully received.

Gary

Subject: RE: Playing klezmer music
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 11:07 AM

I can't offer much from peronal knowledge on the topic, except that you'll have better success in your searches for info if you spell it "klezmer". :-)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 11:58 AM

Fine Becky, except thst in Britain it is pronounced 'Kle T zmer'.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 12:34 PM

Well, I doubt that much of it would be offensive, since it is secular music, sort of the equivilent of street jazz. I have a book of treble clef sheet music if you'd like a couple. Be prepared for a LOT of flat keys.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 04:36 PM

Does this stuff make much sense at sessions which normally feature other genres? The other players have to catch on to some unusual scales, key shifts and tempo changes, which takes a few rehearsals. A couple of tunes from the repertoire of "Moishe's Bagel" (Edinburgh klez group) have caught on a bit round here, but that's about all.

An English concertina can't produce much of the rhythmic oomph this sort of music needs - it would substitute reasonably well for a violin but that's all. You need to find yourself a backline.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 05:20 PM

Klezmer is, basically, a joyous music and really gets people's feet danciing.   Some have lyrics---many do not.   There is no way that any of the music can be disrespectful if it is authentic Klezmer---which is having a great resurgance.

There are many groups you can find on the web and get samplings of the music:

The Klezmatics (they do more than just Klezmer)
Shtrieml
The ALexandria Kleztet
Margot Leverett and The Klezmer Mtn Boys ( a wonderful blend of Klezmer and Bluegrass---they are similar in many ways--except for the clarinet which Margot plays as a virtuoso)
The Old World Folk Band
Maxwell Street Klezmer Band
The Kleztraphobix

I am sure you can find all of them on the web---or you can check my playists on
www.wfdu.fm

Click on Sunday Simcha on the left hand part of the screen and you will find a listing.

I think you will find Margot and Maxwell Street as a good starting point.


Bill Hahn
WFDU Sunday Simcha

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 05:30 PM

Actually, Klezmer music is traditionally wedding/bar mitzvah music(for dancing) which means that, rather than being secular, it is religious in it's context--and, the melodies and their accompanying quirky scales, are cantorial melodies, used for Hebrew prayers--

That aside, there is a Klezmer revival afoot, and they are looking for new recruits--check this site, it has music, midis. and lots of great information, including bands and such--so you can find people to play with--and, believe me--having once had a Klezmer Band (we played for weddings) I can assure you that you'll never have more fun playing any other kind of music!!!

Manchester Klezmer

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:01 PM

I have never heard anybody but M.Ted suggest there were thematic links between cantorial music and klezmer. Specific examples?

Similarity of scales means nothing, since the same ones were current in every culture from Bratislava to Bukhara.

The story I get from stuff I've read suggests that there never was an exclusively Jewish Eastern European dance music - Jewish musicians played for Christian or Muslim celebrations as often as for Jewish ones, and might well play in mixed groups with Gypsies, so they had a good-sized repertoire of party pieces from every culture around them.

Has Jewish culture ever welcomed the idea of its religious music being recycled for secular purposes? Very few cultures allow it - British Protestantism deliberately cut links between folk tunes and hymns, there was a sizable stushie in Turkey a few years ago when a popular singer (the transsexual Bulent Ersoy, I think) sampled the call to prayer, and the Spanish monks who did that megahit Gregorian chant recording of the 1990s all but threatened the Inquisition when somebody used it for a techno-chill-out CD.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:10 PM

Weeel, it's not played AT the wedding....but at the celebration after the wedding. I still say it is not 'religious music' per se.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:24 PM

Both spellings (klezmer and kletzmer) get used.

North Strand Klezmer Band, Dublin in a clip from RTE.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:27 PM

Jack--I've played klezmer music--I worked with a clarinet player occasionally who was actually a cantor--it ain't something I am making up--here's a link that will wake you up a little--Some useful information about Klezmer music --

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 05:56 AM

Take Winster Gallop, convert to minor key, instant Klezmer. Then try the same trick with a few other reels, see what you get.

I went to a Strings at Witney course a while back where one of the fiddle players was teaching Klezmer. I'll try and find my notes to get the name and some of the resources used.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 03:50 AM

Kletzmer is evidence of over- education- the Germans would pronounce the Z that way. But it's Yiddish, which has different spelling, and it's definitely a soft buzzy Z. Evidence is in the way they spell things that do have the -ts in, like Hora mit Tsibleles (Hora with onions), tants Tants Yidelekh (Dance Little Jew), and from the surname Klessmer (which appears in George Eliot's novel Daniel Deronda).

Scales, Jack: it's fairly widely accepted that there was a great deal of crossover between cantorial and secular music, and many of the tune titles reflect the religious connection, like Brandwein's "Fun Tashlikh", or "Devotedly Buoyant at Mt. Abos", but another important influence was Hassidic music, which derives from both Synagogue music and the surrounding secular culture.

It was embedded in the wedding tradition- the musicians setting the scene the religious parts of the wedding with solemn or joyful music as befitted the moment. "Wedding Without a Bride" by Budowitz (note the spelling) is an excellent, well researched evocation of the atmosphere.

Having said that, welcome aboard Gary. I'm afraid the Manchester Klezmer organisation has been a bit quiet for the last couple of years, following the demise of the monthly New Mills session, but there's talk of a revival in the New Year. If you are withing striking distance of Manchester, PM me and I'll arrange for you to be kept informed. We may be arranging something sporadic here in Derbyshire too, as the local landlord is becoming quite keen, but it's early days yet.

the Complete Klezmer is a good book to start with, and it has an accompanying tape/ CD available.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Gary
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:28 AM

Wow,

Much thanks to everyone - lots to consider.

Definitely get more info without the T !

Response at sessions ? Good point. I usually play/sing slow quiet miserable songs - so something lively or evocative would make a nice change for the audience. I think several of the experienced players could 'get it' fairly quickly, if not - it was a challenge for 'em.
The sessions that I would play at tend to be pretty easy going, I usually wouldn't play at the 'we don't allow ....' sessions.

I had heard that most Klezmer music derived from music used as part of the religious services, which is why I intend to be careful about which tunes to try. Lots of good resources posted - thank you all - will research.

A question for those who know - does the word Klezmer really derive from 2 Hebrew words : kley(instrument) & zemer(song) ?

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:34 AM

Thanks for that link Paul, I haven't been in touch with JMD for many years (long before the web) and had forgotten all about them.

Gary: where are you? There might well be people near you who play the stuff.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:48 AM

The Wikipedia article on Klezmer is pretty accurate and informative. I haven't heard of Klez concertina, so you'll be a bit on your own as regards style, but Mishka Ziganoff had a piano accordion style that could be easily adapted- a gentle touch, well separated notes, and sparing use of the bass.

In general, the Jewish musicians that I've known are seldom too delicate in their sensibilities, and the music was really secular. Klezmorim were rather badly thought of in Shtetl society. So unless you choose to traduce the music, you're not going to offend anyone who hasn't set out to be ofended. The only topic to steer clear of until you know the other musicians well is Israel- in my experience half the Jewish musicians are strongly Zionist, the other half as vehemently anti-Zionist. Some of the Manchester musicians occasionally took part in cultural exchange events with Moslem musicians. And in our sessions nobody ever asked you to take sides.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 08:44 AM

I was told it is forbidden to play music at a bar mitzvah.
NO music on Friday sundown to Sat. sundown.
No music about bacon pork ham lobster shell fish or shiksahs.

Klezmer music is powerful none the less. Ex prime minister Sharon was recently taken off of intensive care and is receiving 24 hours a day of Klezmer music. The idea is he will either get better to escape the music or lose his will to live all together.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 10:24 AM

The actual bar mitzvah is a religious event that takes place in the home- usually the boy reads the blessings, or reads from and discusses the Torah, for the first time. But like all such life events, there's often a party to celebrate, and Klezmer survived largely on the fact that people felt that this acceptance as an adult Jew should also include a recollection of the family's origins in Europe. The ethnic music market largely collapsed in the late 1920s- new immigration had been severely curtailed, and anyway the recession meant that people were poorer- and there are faiurly few recordings from the late 20s to the 40s. But the music kept boing played, and evolving, in places like hotels in the Catskill holiday resorts favoured by New York Jews.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Danz
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 10:59 AM

I'm a clarinet player and my bands name is The North Strand Klezmer Band. My 50cent says...

Anyone who knows klezmer will know straight away if someone is playing it properly, ornamentation and whatnot. This does not meen that it cant be fucked around with. There are certain "rules" that should be followed however. Klezmer meens 'vessel of song', dont know if anyone metioned that or anything else i've written as I only glanced over this board. Klezmer and Gypsy music of eastern Europe share similarities in that both travelled and nicked things from one another, a cross-pollination if you will. So anyone interested in Klezmer would be advised to check out in particular 'Lautari' music which is the music of the Roma gypsies of Romania, fantastic music. Try and youtube the likes of 'Taraf de Haidouks'.

Slán go foil

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Gulliver
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 07:14 PM

I heard the North Strand Klezmer Band a couple of months ago in Dun Laoghaire, but the pub was packed and the sound system didn't seem up to the music, at least where we were sitting. Are you playing anywhere around Dublin these days?

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 08:19 PM

Take Winster Gallop, convert to minor key, instant Klezmer. Then try the same trick with a few other reels, see what you get.

Great fun doing that. I remember Johnny Handle demonstrating it, at a workshop at Whittlesea Straw Bear Festival, a couple of years ago.

NB - it's not a matter of using relative minors. For a tune you'd play with A, D and E, you'd use instead a minor, d minor and Emajor (or E7). As Peter Standing said, instant "klezmer" - well, sort of. Not just reels, any number of tunes suddenly take on that old East European sound. Beatles tunes, Dylan...
.....................................

I'm afraid I'm not North Strand Klezmer, and I haven't heard them live. But they sound good fun from what I have heard.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 10:42 PM

Yeah, well sorta yeah.

One of my first jobs as a teenager was working in a Store where, well more like doodling on the instruments.

One of my first ever solo reading music outings was on a page of (sorry about my spelling) Ha Va Naguila. Not Kletzmer but it is an old Hebrew folk tune.

Since that time I have acquired the odd CD of this music and beleive me you better be ready to 'hop' if you plan to get into it.

The North Strand Klezmer Bhouys have been out there for a while, here I hope is an earlier you tube offering of them in blistering form. You can see why Dubliners love them so much.

North Strand Klezmer Dublin

Enjoy!

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Gulliver
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:31 AM

Yes, one of those Youtube clips is from the festival in Dun Laoghaire where I saw the North Strand Klezmer Band (the North Strand is just North of Dublin city centre). Pity the sound was so bad where we were sitting.

I'm trying out one or two klezmer numbers in one of our sessions (on mandolin), to go with a couple of Yiddish songs I do. I was surprised that many people didn't know what Yiddish was, so I'm not going to try to explain Klezmer!

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: NormanD
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:19 AM

Have a listen to the new album "Shtetl Super Stars: Funky Jewish Sounds From Around The World" (TRIKONT US-0354) to hear the full range of current Klezmer and Jewish-influenced music. My current favourite is Canadian Geoff Berner who has a track called "Lucky Goddamn Jew" - no trad. "Almonds & Raisins" for him....

David Krakauer's Klezmer Madness is another good example of how musically revolutionary Klezmer is becoming.

Norman

Incidentally. the phrase "Klezmer music" is wrong - it's like saying "music music"

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Kandel
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 03:29 AM

More like "musical instrument music", the klezmorim were players rather than singers. Which isn't to say that a few songs would ever go amiss, just that in the days of the origins of klezmer in the specialist wedding bands of old Europe, the singing was left to another specialist- the badkhen.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 10:03 PM

Ok Kandel, sure, and it was in a Shtetl - probably in Poland - that it began, but I am not saying this is History! Just my take on the topic. Must admit, I never heard of the term 'badkhen' before, but thanks for the lesson.

In the meantime I think I'll shlock (browse) over to YouTube and type in 'kinnor' so I can hear some more of that wonderful music.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 16 Nov 06 - 11:56 PM

It is true that, etymologically, "klezmer music" is wrong, and it is true that, "back in the day," no one used that phrase BUT language marches on, and for many years now people have been using the phrase, and there's no simpler phrase that you could use instead, so let's cut it a little slack.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 01:30 AM

Hava Nagila is actually a klezmer tune--not originally perhaps, but it seems to have been klezzed, by the addition of a Romanian Hora beat, in the twenties--I have an entertaining recording by the Barry Sisters, sung in Hebrew and English, peppered with the clarinet stylings of Dave Tarras, and if it ain't Klezmer, nothing is...

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 03:24 AM

I always though Havana Gila was Cuban, so you live and learn. I've never heard it played at a klez session, but according to Sapoznik prior to Hava Nagila, Ma Yofus (Tantz, Tantz Yiderlekh) was the "Jewish tune", and that gets played a lot. I suppose the older cliche is forgotten , and modern klez plyers don't want to be tagged with Hava Nagila any more than clarinet players like playing Strangler on the Shore.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 06 - 07:36 PM

Hebrew and English - but as I understand it, Hebrew has never been the relevant language for "klezmer", but rather Yiddish - and that's sometimes been reflected in a certain disapproval of the music as representing "the wrong kind of Judaism".

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: M.Ted
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 04:21 PM

Hebrew became a relevant language simply because there were a lot of songs in Hebrew that people wanted to hear--They'd do "Trop'ns Fun Regen oyf Mein Kop" as well--It's traditional to play the songs people want to hear.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 07:36 PM

On the first CD by The Princeton Klez Dispensers, there's a bit where the band is starting up Hava Nagila, when someone stops them with words to the effect of, "stop with that goyishe music already."

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 08:00 PM

And always hava 2 negillas---they are small---you shouldn't starve!!


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 08:58 PM

I thought it was Hava Tequila - must get my hearing checked...

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music (klezmer)
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:32 PM

Gary Guest


I'm also tyrying to playklezmer on the english concertina. Please email at [e-mail]

Squeeze box

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music (klezmer)
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:22 AM

The spelling kletzmer is utterly wrong; maybe originated in Germany where z is prononced like ts.

The word is composed of hebr. kle (instruments) and zemer (music); the z is pronunced like in English (a voiced sibilant).

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music (klezmer)
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:21 AM

Yes, it's an error of the over- educated, not like you and I :)

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music (klezmer)
From: M.Ted
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 01:10 AM

Ditch that meshuggah squeezebox and get a real one--you won't never go back!!

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music (klezmer)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 05:44 AM

According to the sleevenotes for a CD by the Georgian instrumental band "Rustavi" (Davit Kipiani and friends) the tune for "Hava Hagila" is from North Ossetia??? - whatever the merits of the claim they are hardly likely to be putting it on for nationalistic reasons, as North Ossetia is one of the regions of Georgia with a strong separatist movement.

Subject: RE: Playing kletzmer music (klezmer)
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 07:33 AM

A tune being "from" somewhere is highly problematical in Eastern Europe and even beyond. A friend was recently playing klezmer at an anti- war celebration. After his set, he was approached by an Iraqi refugee, who congratulated him on the way he'd played the Iraqi tune. He inquired which one- and that particular klezmer standard is also well known in Iraq. You can bet that it's also "from" everywhere between there and Hungary.