BS: Ashes

Subject: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:13 AM

Well, somebody has to start it.

Have the Poms set up somebody to roll balls under Glenn McGrath's feet during the warm-up?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:20 AM

As long as they are not mine - go ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:07 AM

Monty Panesar or Ashley Giles?

It seems that there is a very good chance that Giles will be selected.

Personally I can't see the point of bringing back Giles.

I think they should go with Panesar and look to the future.

Any thoughts from the rest of you cricket punters?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:50 AM

The main thing is not building for the future - the future has already arrived - we need to try to win matches, right now. I reckon when the chips are really down, I'd rather have Ashley in the team than not - and believe me, the chips are really going to be down!

We need to graft Ashley's batting and dogged determination on to Monty's bowling, then we would have the ideal choice.

My forecast for the series is that we will get two draws out of them.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:07 AM

The thinking is that this Aussie team is a now a bit like Dad's Army.

Too old or what?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:10 AM

Since your chips are down, do you want fries with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,dazbo
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:35 AM

In case there are any unenlighted citizens of the world:

The Ashes Explained

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 08:05 AM

Sounds like a good idea... it was really frosty in Dorset yesterday morning, they need something for the path.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: ard mhacha
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 08:29 AM

We stuffed their rugby team at Lansdowne Road on Sunday, Ireland 21 Australia 6, the Aussies will have no worries with this England cricket team, dads army or not they will win the series.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 11:38 AM

I think that England will be glad to come away with two draws from the whole series. It was nice upsetting the natural order last time, but reality is back. Anyway, now that the football team has flopped, our rugby teams get pasted regularly and none of our hopes outlast the first batch of strawberries at Wimbledon, it feels comfortable to get back to normality.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 12:42 PM

Of course this is happening in Australia, on Australian pitches, in front of Australian crowds. I would prefer Monty to Ashley - I don't think that Ashley would get any turn at all. But if Monty doesn't turn it then Ashley is better with flight.

It would be nice if Michael Vaughan will be fit enough to take part later in the series - any English team needs at least two Yorkshire players! Anyway Michael has the technique and temperament needed.

I think we will miss Simon Jones - he was very effective in the last series.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Richard in Manchester
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:57 PM

You'll need another Yorkshireman. Vaughan is from Worsley - in Lancashire.

Light the blue touch paper....

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:05 PM

I didn't say he was a Yorkshireman, did I? He's a Yorkshire player - registered to play for Yorkshire CCC. But he's probably a lot more of a Yorkshireman than Craig White, who was born in Yorkshire.

Everyone knows the unfortunate circumstances of Michael's birth. Apparently his parents were over there on missionary work...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: dusty rhodes
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:20 PM

Shane Warne ,Shane Warne ,Shane Warne ,Shane Warne:
The flipper is back at least thats what he's saying.
For England Big Steve Harmisson is the key , Failed last time he was here and was excellent in England...
Anyway Thursday the yak ends.
Cricket is back , don't matter who wins....

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Richard in Manchester
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:25 PM

Right you are, Les.

Well, regardless of county allegiances, let's just hope they can reach the heights of their 2005 performance. Some sleepless nights coming up, I fear!

There was a great story about Flintoff in one of the papers today. Recalling that now-legendary moment at the end of the Edgbaston Test where Flintoff went over to put a consoling arm around Brett Lee's shoulders, some Aussie journo asked Flintoff what he'd actually said to Lee. Flintoff replied, "What did I say? I said right, that's one-all, you Aussie b*****d!"

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:47 PM

I don't see us coming out with much either. We seem to have moved backwards from the last ashes series (when in fairness, we were not up against the greatest Austrailian side ever but we did play well) and I think Australia are better than they were that time.

As for the choice of spinner, I'm not an Ashley Giles fan.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Allen in OZ
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 09:36 PM

There is a yarn going around that the England cricketer Collingwood was having batting peactice at the Sydney Cricket Ground using a bowling machine when an Australian onlooker stopped to watch.

The first ball was hit beautifully by Collingwood straight back for an obvious 4 runs. The Aussie bloke said " That's not where McGrath bowls them"

The next ball was driven through the covers in an expansive stroke for another four...The Aussie says " That's not where McGrath bowls them"

The third ball just snicks the bat and drifts to first slip for an easy catch The Aussie bloke says " THAT'S where McGrath bowls them"

AD1943


Man could have invented a better game than cricket...but he hasn't yet


the nect ball wpassed

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 05:37 AM

So Ian Bell has injured his hand. I like Bell and I just hope that he is fit.

I prefer Panasa to Giles. Never really rated Giles.

Roll on the first day.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 08:12 AM

I'd like to see Panesar out there, if only because Warne would prefer us to play Giles!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 08:21 AM

Wish I didn't have to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 08:58 AM

I'll bet, but I bet you are tempted to stay up though Strollin':-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:27 AM

I'd like to see Panesar out there, if only because Warne would prefer us to play Giles!!

Perhaps it is a double-bluff?

Maybe England should call his bluff and play them both?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:26 AM

Will the Cubs be in the playoffs?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 02:04 AM

Well it won't be long now.

Crossing fingers that Ian Bell suffers no reactions to his extensive workout.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 05:19 AM

Any chance of that "Paddy" getting on, Joyce, haw haw.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 10:44 AM

Ian Bell is fit and will play, so no debut for Ed Joyce yet. (I think Haw Haw was a different Joyce.) Giles will play instead of Panesar 'cos he can bat better. Shame!

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 11:58 AM

I don't think we should be going into a test match playing Giles just because he can bat better. That says a lot about the first 6 batsmen.You only make choices like that with bowlers when you are not very confident about the earlier batsmen.

I firmly beleive that Panesar has a match winning capability and needs to be given the chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 12:22 PM

I agree. And they've made a similar decision about the wicketkeeper. Maybe they're going for all draws to keep the ashes that way. Too negative for me. We'll see...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 12:36 PM

Well thats 2 les's that agree Les

Cheers
Les :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 05:03 PM

if australia play stuart macgill as wellas Warne england could well be in trouble. NOW YORKSHIRE HAVE AFINE NEW LEG SPINNER ,I PREDICT HE WILL BE IN THE ENGLAND TEAM IN 3 YEARS.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 08:50 PM

Missed my name om my not being a Giles fan post...

It's at least 3 of us, Villan. I'd take the attacking option.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 01:25 AM

Well the first score is in and the good news is that England are back to getting their usual pasting. I quite enjoyed all that winning stuff a year or so back, but we Brits can only stand that for so long. It ain't natural. Somehow comfortable normality feels right!

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:03 AM

The bowling stood out like a sore thumb and lacked inspiration.

Freddie was the best and Giles bowled well, but how much better would Panesar have been and would he have sorted the Aussies out. We will never know.

Rest of the pace attack was pretty poor.

OR

Were the Aussie Batsmen too good ?

Why do fielders slide when trying to stop a ball. It is so dangerous and so is the outfield, as Pieterson found out.

Now will our English heroes wake up in the morning refreshed and full of inspoiration and bowl the Aussies out for under 400 ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 04:56 AM

It looks like the usual Woolloongabba batting track to me so the question of who spins the ball better is a bit academic. Without any swing and nothing at all from the deck, the seamers were on a hiding to nothing. The new ball swung a bit but that won't last, and Flintoff will be over-bowled and knackered before it starts to reverse.

The key for me is whether our top order can get a few runs on the board so we can avoid the follow-on and play this one out. We'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 05:21 AM

Well, there's a few nasty things happening at The Gabba - no bottles, water or whatever or backpacks (TERRORISTS MAN!) allowed thru the gates, so after queueing for a few hours, you get told that you gotta go queue at the "Cloakroom tent" and pay $5, then go back to queue at the gate...

The 'Barmy Army' has been split up into groups of about 20 scattered all through the grounds, and their trumpeter got evicted, but not arrested. the Mexican Wave banned apparently too - but how the hell they gonna evict EVERYBODY?

The several pubs nearby opened at 8:30am instead of the usual 10am, and they aren't trying to stop the Barmy Army drinking after the game, at least...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 05:27 AM

Looks like 500 or more for the Aussies.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 08:19 AM

nah! we'll hold em to 450 and then dig in! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 09:05 AM

Do England know what "dig in" means of recent ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 10:37 AM

Actually Dick, Yorkshire have two fine young leg spinners Adil Rashid and Mark Lawson, although it's probably Adil you're referring to. And they won't leave him out of the side because of his batting.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Richard in Manchester
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 04:15 PM

It's down to field placings and luck. The number of Aussie thick-edges that went through and over the slip/gully area in the first session, they could have been 80-4. It was like that in 2005, but England were fortunate that many of the edges went to hand.

I agree with Terry. Warne notwithstanding (which, granted, is a risky thing to say!) it will come down to whether England make use of the prime batting conditions like the Australians have. If they do, the match will peter out drawn, and that will suit England far more than Australia.

If if if.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 07:20 PM

yes adil rashid .Iwas booked at scarborough sea fest, which coincided with scarborugh cricket festival, so had the honour of watching rashids debut ,I think he got five wickets.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 02:24 AM

>>whether England make use of the prime batting conditions like the Australians have.<<

WEll they sure have - in ltlle than an hour they have managed to get to 50 for 3.

Excellent bowling from the Aussies. Very accurate. Are you watching England?

I cannot understand what the hell Strauss was doing to go for such a risky shot so early in the game.

Aaaaagh Shane Warne is coming on.Time for knee trembles. Will we save the follow on?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 03:12 AM

Only got to get a high normal inning, and then they are only 50% behind...


The trumpeter (who IS very good) - Bob Cooper I think they said - had a good run in the pub last night. Today he left it behind - and someone passed him some tiny little plastic thing...

A lot of people were still shocked to find that theoretically no backpacks were allowed - but some got in yesterday and the same ones were not permitted today - and yet today, others were permitted - sounds like the typical FUBAR that our US cousins experience when boarding a plane....


The River City Clippers have been on TV a fair bit singing songs which put down the Barmay Army...


"What shall we do with the Barmy Army?" - yep you know the tune...

for example...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 03:17 AM

OOO found The River City Clippers!!!!

The Brisbane River City Clippers Men's Harmony Chorus
Brisbane's Premier Men's A Cappella Experience

there's some mp3 samples there.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 03:32 AM

http://www.questnews.com.au/article/2006/10/24/12202_wn_news.html

OCTOBER 25: If you believe the bookies, the on-field battle for the Ashes is already over.

But off the pitch, Australia finds itself decided underdog as a group of Brisbane barbershop singers tries to silence England's famous Barmy Army of supporters.

The 64-strong River City Clippers -with members across the westside - this week issued a call to arms in an attempt to out-chant the enemy.

Vice-president John Shelton said the group had eight songs in its arsenal, and aimed to be as ``positively abusive in a good-natured way'' in its lyrics as the Barmy Army was expected to be.

``We are going to have a singing Test match,'' Mr Shelton said.

``If the opposition tries to put us off we will just keep singing.''

Clippers singer Keith Druery said his group's ammunition would be singing tunefully.

``We don't expect the same from them,'' he said.

A Barmy Army spokesman welcomed the Brisbane challenge but said the army did not believe it would be beaten.

``This is the fourth time the Barmy Army have been to Australia and they have never been close to being out-sung,'' the spokesman said.

``Man for man you will need at least two or three Aussies to match us.''

He said the army looked forward to meeting the Clippers.

``Hopefully after all the banter we'll all sit down together and have some beers,'' he said.

The Barmy Army has sold 1700 official packages and has 5000 independent travellers.

The Clippers' songs refer to five Australian cricketers, including a song about Shane Warne to the tune of God Save the Queen.

To join the Clipper Army, phone [phone].

Participants do not need to be professional singers, and song sheets will be provided.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 10:19 AM

Digging in?, the trouble with digging in the hole gets deeper and deeper,the game might be over a day early.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 11:09 PM

Well, all gone for 157 - so now the Aussies taunt them by not enforcing the follow on... just so the bowlers can have a rest...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 11:41 PM

Well the crowd got bored cause the follow on wasn't enforced - the Barmy Army Trumpeter had been quietened - so suddenly an inflated young lady was being thrown around till she was arrested by the Police.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 03:29 AM

When will Australia bat to tomorrow?

Seems like a strange decision to me, even if England are so poor. Runs are not important for England anymore. Ponting has made sure of that

If Australia bat until lunch, they are giving England a slight chance of batting the match out.

Psychologically I think it better to bat knowing that you are batting out 1 and a half days than 2 plus days, no matter how bad the batting is.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:50 AM

Woe, woe and thrice woe!
Still, it's good of Ponting to give us some bowling practice...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 06:31 AM

Got to do SOMETHING to make a match of the next one... :-P


If you go to http://www.abc.net.au/cricket/

you will find various things, including a live web podcatst of the Match

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:39 AM

Ponting`s arrogance might backfire on him, this was stupid captaincy, he did the same in England when in the fourth test he won the toss, and to his cost let England open.
There again I may be doing the man a disservice, he has seen England bat.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 08:04 AM

Brisbane looks nice, all that sun. I'd forgotten nice.........another four months to go of this crap, and rain, and shit, and snow, and cold wind biting at you....

sod the ashes, I wouldn't mind a day or two of their weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:48 PM

I predict a draw, very good odds 14 to one.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:55 PM

Currntly, rain has been forecast for Monday.

With the vagaries of weather, it may turn up sooner or later than predicted.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:58 PM

Wouldn't it be quite ironic if it resulted in a draw due to weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 06:11 PM

The commentators have advanced a large number of possible reasons for not enforcing the follow-on, but here's mine.

The pitch is showing signs of drying out much earlier than historically, so by Australia batting now, when the pitch is not too bad, the Poms have to struggle when they get in, giving the Aussies the chance of cleaning them up. If the Poms try to 'dig in', they run the risk of being swept away.

Incidentally my brother when a boy scout years ago, assisted in picking all those pebbles out, the time they also used the helicopter as a giant fan to help dry out the pitch.

The Pitch was shaved when they resurfaced it for kicking balls around on, something I am sure the Poms feel rather like right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:08 PM

Punter had to bat again. If the match had not gone into four days, the Australian Cricket Board would have had to refund a lot of gate money to people who had pre-purchased tickets. It did give Langer the opportunity to get the century he missed in the first innings.

Now we just have to see if Collingwood and Pietersen can keep this partnership going intil it rains.

That nice sunny weather is actually hot and sticky, and often means an approaching thunderstorm - but it does beat cold, fog, sleet, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John O'L
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 02:14 AM

I have so far declined to post because no-one wanted to know how disappointed I was and that was all I had to say, but now Collingwood and Pieterson are actually playing cricket and the weather seems to be undecided there is at last some interest.

I guess there's a lot of the season left to go. We can't write the series off just yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 02:52 AM

WEll I never, Collingwood gets to 96 and then gets stupidly stumped ad puts England under more pressure.
What can I say about Freddies innings apart from irresponsible stroke leading to a catch.
If the weather doesn't interfere with day 5, then its curtains for England.
Until Collingwood was out, I genuinly thought that we could survive day 5.
I don't mind if somebody is out due to excellent play from the opposition, but when you give your wickets away, when runs are not important, only time, well words fail me.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 04:10 AM

Well 2 for under 50, and 3 for under 100 didn't look too good for a start, there has been a good fightback. there were rumours of rain, and a few clouds, but nothing yet.

For those of you on the other side of the world you may be interested in some satellite and radar weather pics, also a lightning tracker for Brisbane.

You might want to write these down on a piece of paper.

256 km Brisbane (Mt Stapylton) Radar Loop
256 km Brisbane (Marburg) Radar Loop BRISBANE MARBURG RADAR
Lightning strikes in south-east Queensland during the past 45 minutes

And for you hopeful Poms, here's the top level sites to look at other cities for the rest of the test. You might want to also write these down on that piece of paper.

National Weather and Warnings Information
Weatherzone - AUS Bureau of Meteorology Weather Radar

And as for you Poms, I'll tell you what to do with that piece of paper later on.........

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 04:41 AM

The Poms scored 370 in the fourth innings of a Gabba Test - not many have done that. If the Australians take them too casually, there could be upsets.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 05:13 AM

Yes, that 370 saved some England pride, & just shows the lads cant be written off, despite the dismal performance other than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 05:18 AM

... now about that piece of paper - I suggest yousave it until after the test series finishes...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 05:28 AM

Looking back to the first test of the last series in England and the easy win in that one - the Australian team looked then to be unbeatable and the England bowling attack looked a joke..............

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:40 AM

COME ON AUSSIE COME ON

TOM FRAE SCOTLAND

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:42 AM

it's only a joke,

to tell the truth I couldn't give a shit who won.

tom frae scotland

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 11:28 AM

You wouldif it was Scotland :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 05:15 AM

now england are going to win the second test ,the odds shoiuld be good,lets hopethey play ed joyce and monty panesar

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 03:24 PM

If this story turns out correct, I suppose England might have a chance - McGrath a doubt for Adelaide - "Glenn McGrath is facing a battle to prove his fitness for the second Test after failing to completely recover from his troublesome left heel injury."

But I would't bet on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 03:50 PM

He who bets, picks his own pocket.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 07:09 PM

England (unchanged) won the toss and will bat.

Australia are unchanged with McGrath fully fit.

Of course this means that the game could be over in three days, with Australia only having to bat once!

Still, best of luck to our lads - they need a bit of luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 03:11 AM

Well not a bad score at the end of day 1

Middle order have done very well. Just hope Collingwood can get his hundred and go on a get a double.

If we could get to about 400, that would make the game interersting, especially if our bowlers start to bowl straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 04:36 AM

Probably a bit early to say it, but this highlights a major soapbox of mine, notably, the toss.

On the flat 'Gabba track, the worst result for the series was for Australia to win the toss, as it virtually excluded an England win as an option. The other way around would have made a game of it, given home advantage etc.

Had we lost the toss this time, you could almost have kissed the series goodbye, even at this early stage.

My theory is that the toss should be done only once, for the whole series. Then whoever wins the toss gets to choose to have control (i.e. to choice to bat or field) either in tests 1 and 5, or in tests 2,3 and 4. That particular choice would not necessarily be easy to make if you think about it. For shorter test series a similar choice option could apply.

That at least would stop people like me making excuses for lame England performances by claiming we would have been OK if we'd won the toss.....

What do people think?

Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 04:38 AM

You're assuming, Villan, that Collojngwood won't have another rush of blood and get himself stumped first thing in the morning?

Have to do something about that damned nuisance Pietersen.....

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 05:05 AM

Not assuming, just crossing my legs, fingers, toes and anything else that can be crossed :-)

I am hoping Pieterson will start all over again in the morning and help England get a decent score.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 05:08 AM

I hope it goes that way. Trouble with England is I'm always at least half expecting the great collapse after a promising start...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 06:02 AM

Yes Jon, but we need to be optimistic, and after all they grafted hard today. One assumes they will tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:58 AM

Reasonable effort, for a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 02:16 PM

Enlgand's mastery of the batting collapse usually sees them safely through to defeat after even the most promising of starts. Maybe a new era is dawning, but I'll withhold judgement for a while yet!

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 02:28 PM

That's a very good point about the toss, Terry K. It is much more important in cricket than in any other sporting contest. In most other sports it means next to nothing, unless it's a really windy rugby match. Because of the legnth of a cricket match weather and pitch conditions can change greatly.

The only other contest that I can think of where who does what first matters so much is chess. And they take turns, and, it seems, always have done.

Still a good start for our lads, I hope that they can go on with the batting and put in a decent bowling performance.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:26 AM

Well it was on all night by my bed, and every time I woke up to go for a pee, Paul Collingwood and Kevin Pietersen, were still batting, had to keep checking the clock!
I was awake to hear the end of Collingwood's innings, and it was a shame that he was out one ball before tea, otherwise he might have, refreshed after a break, gone on to beat Wally hammond's 230.
Giok

♪♫
And the next that comes in it is Paul Collingwood,
And he fought for old England till he shed his blood
He came from overseas, Australia to view
And in Adelaide batted an hundred or two.♫♪

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:50 AM

The England batting performance was encouraging - but the crunch will be the bowling - and the big question is Harmison.

I feel that on this pitch - Monty (and Giles) would have been the better option.

But as he was not selected - we will never know for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 06:02 AM

Well I am sure Harmison's self estemm was improved by not allowing him to open the bowling. Maybe England's plan is to let him rip on the third day. I can't help thinking (and I may have to eat my own words) that it would have been better to have left the lad out of the match and not humiliate him, by not letting him open the bowling. I'll bet he was smarting. Not sure if he is one of these people who rise to the occasion when being humiliated or gets worse. We shall see.

Excellent batting performance, and Australia now know they have a battle on their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 06:31 AM

A game of cricket Les.....please, not a battle.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 07:43 AM

Now we gave a game...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 07:44 AM

Battle WLD :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 07:46 AM

Not often Warne hits 2 brick walls...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John O'L
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 08:02 AM

This is becoming frighteningly familiar.

Nah, not really. Just trying to be conciliatory. This can't last. The English bowling will surely falter. One lucky wicket...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 10:40 AM

I can still see this heading for a draw. Superb batting from England but the pitch may be the winner yet. A flat slow wicket like this one is not the best way to secure a positive result. But if the bounce gets unpredictable or reverse swing occurs then we may see a better bowling performance from England.

I would still like to know why Anderson is in the team. If Matty Hoggard can't swing the ball, what chance does Anderson have? And he's still bowling licorice allsorts. He bats at no. 11, so it's not his batting. We could leave him out for Monty. The Aussies seem happy to play four main bowlers even though one of them is walking wounded.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 11:25 AM

Hard to understand the reasoning isn't it Les

Les

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 12:25 PM

There's no room for two spinners on a flat, slow wicket, so I think Anderson is not a bad choice - at least he has done some of it at that level, even though he is out of match practice. I think Monty will come in later in the piece and be all the more effective for it.

As for Harmison, there surely is nothing worse for a sportsman of any kind than to be dropped from the team, so the fact that he can't yet be trusted to open the bowling is the lesser evil for him. I don't for a minute believe that Harmison is unaware of the issues, and feel sure he will have been involved in the discussions as to when it will be best for him to bowl.

We need to trust them, and I think that being cautious when confronting the best side in the world in their own back yard is probably on the right side of sensible. Let's be patient, wait for the third and fourth matches - they count for one point each as well!

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 02:24 PM

I will be watching this morning and will be rooting for Harmi to come good please please. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 03:49 PM

I think they were right to go for Freddie and the Hoggster to open the bowling. They only had a maximum 10 overs and you've got to have Hoggy bowling as he's always most effective right at the start of an innings. And Freddie was far and away the best English bowler in the last test. But if it doesn't swing in the morning Harmison should come on for Hoggard fairly soon. Harmy might have a real part to play in this test if the bounce is variable later on - with his pace as long as he can get some accuracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:05 PM

australia have made the mistake of not playing magill.
england should have selected adil rashid and martin bicknell[guile and accuracy respectively unfortunately neither are in the squad]failing that, monty panesar.I cant see england have enough attacking bowlers,I hope im wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:31 PM

OK Capt Birdseye, here goes.

I'm a great fan of Stuart Magill; I'm not sure about his religious tendencies, but hey, he's a great bowler. If Warne wasn't there, he would be an automatic choice. But Warne IS there, and is still the greatest bowler cricket has ever known. He is also a great competitor and a match-winner. Oh, and he can bat, which Magill can't. So no Magill then.

I'd need to take advice on Rashid, but would only say I would'nt attempt to blood a new test bowler in an Ashes series away from home. Call me a cautious old thing but there you are.

Bicknell was given a shot in recent years, and came in with a bang. Then what? They chose not to pursue him, and as he will be 38 in 6 weeks time, I tend to agree with them.

Monty is a great prospect. My son was at Loughborough University with him recently and pronounces him "a good bloke", even though he didn't automatically try to get falling-over-pissed every night as students are supposed to. But Monty needs to face the Aussies (in their own back yard) on a turning wicket, and we are not there yet. He will have his moment, but it isn't yet. Imagine if we had introduced him to the Aussie batsmen in full flow at the 'Gabba - they would have seriously destroyed not just his confidence but probably his career. So let's stick with Ashley, just to be safe.

Finally, we do have attacking bowlers, and they are already in the side. If it was a one-day series, it may be different, but test cricket happens over a 5 day period. It is a TEST. Not just of ability, technique, and natural talent, but mainly of mental strength, application, the ability to not buckle under everything the Aussies will no doubt be throwing at us, on and off the pitch.

I predicted two draws as being a good result for England (as a seriously biased England fan, but also a realist), but I've seen enough already to make me a little more positive, and to feel that this may yet turn out to be a competitive series.

I think our attack is good - and well-balanced - if we can get Anderson match-fit, hence more consistent, and if Harmison can perform at least half as well as we all know he can. I'm really relishing the prospect and just hope that the vagaries of the toss (see my earlier post) don't influence the series in too negative a way.

Da dahhhhhhhh.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 08:07 PM

Funny how all the 'has-been'* media commentators (including the Aussie ones) here have been saying all along that you always need two spinners at Adelaide...


*has-been - well they all has been players before...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John O'L
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 08:50 PM

Ponting dropped by Giles on 35. Is that the urn?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John O'L
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 09:35 PM

Well Ponting's lucky to have made it through to lunch. He has played some dodgey shots and survived a runout and at least one reasonable lbw query. On the radio they are saying they reckon he's unwell. He might be. He's on 57 now. I wish I was that sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 10:42 AM

Ponting 142 Thanks Giles :-( oh and thanks for bagging some wickets as well Giles.
At least the quickies bowled a lot better and I wonder what would have happened if Giles had cuaght Ponting.

Third test Monti please.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 10:43 AM

I never made a century in cricket before
G

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 10:44 AM

Oh well 101 is better anyway
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 11:22 AM

Must have been asleep there. Must stop watching the test match :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 03:44 PM

TO GUEST 2 DEC ,I meant that magill should have been picked as well as Warne. ADIL RASHID is also a good batsman. australia have now scored 312,need i .say more.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 07:35 PM

Well, they're off again.... good cricket yeaterday - 5:316 nearly to the follow on point...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John O'L
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 08:17 PM

The draw is looking likely. There's still a chance for England but they need wickets NOW.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:54 AM

Well about 100 ahead, now we see what the English are made of: if they will declare and make a game of it; otherwise it may be a draw...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:57 AM

The draw looks like a certainty, unless we take nine Pommy wickets for about 40 in the morning - which is always on the cards.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:39 PM

to guest.warnes test cricket batting average is 16 .62,Magills is 10 .20, a difference of six runs.magills bowling average is 27 warnes is 25.
the averages would bear out that warne, is not much better with the bat than magill.warnes highest score is 93, magills is 43.
spinners generally work better together, allen and titmus, laker and lock,Hobbs and Phelan, WARNE AND MAGILL, The english are poor at playing leg spin,australia would win the second test tomorrow if magill was playing along with warne.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:29 PM

IMHO the game was lost for England, when they dropped Ponting. That cost England dearly and has shaped the game.
However, I shall be watching it with great enthusiasm

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:02 AM

As I write Aust. need 77 off 20 overs with 8 wickets in hand. If they win this match I think the summer's over, cricket-wise.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 03:25 AM

Oh Dear only England could have done what they did.

Congratulations to Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 04:46 AM

Done and dusted.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 05:30 AM

I thought I was kidding about the 9 for 40 - or 9 for 60, as it turned out.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 06:50 AM

Best test match for about 30 years! and best last day for yonks!
The Poms fought well, but lost concentration - though Warne still makes a big difference... the largest Adelaide crowd for about 47 years....



So The Aussies need win only of 3 to get back the Ashes, the Poms need to win 3; or 2 and a draw to keep them!

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:00 AM

Amazng (or not)... I turned the radio on before bed expecting to hear we were heading for a draw and we were for 5 then. I stayed up intsead.

Yes, FT, Warne most certainly helps but we did not help ourselves. Also I wonder if Monty might have made a difference for us.

I suspecr the series is effectively over now.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 11:06 AM

Yes, you start losing wickets like that and it's hard to stop. One bad decision to start it, a stupid runout and a bad shot selection (Pieterson) and you're in trouble.

But it stemmed from the inabilty of the other bowlers to support Matty Hoggard. Check out the averages so far of Harmison (1 for 288), Anderson (2 for 303) and Giles (3 for 262) and you can see where it's going wrong. Even Australia's worst performing regular bowler (Brett Lee) is doing much better than that. And I know that Warne can be effective but his bowling has supplied plenty of runs for us so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:33 PM

I heard on teh news that one English newspaper had the headline

'WE WERE WARNED'

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 01:22 PM

Perhaps England might win if they were allowed to have STUART MAGILL.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 07:15 AM

3-0, 3-0, to the tune of Amazing Grace,

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John O'L
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 07:45 AM

How sad that on the third day of an Ashes test the thread has dropped off the menu. Guess there's nothing to be said, the only interest now being whether or not it will be a 5-0 whitewash.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:03 PM

An England victory is still possible John. But no, I don't see us getting close.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:24 PM

I believe england to draw is a good bet at 16 to one,and england to win at 25 to 1,you could hedge your bets and do both the draw and the win.TWO DAYS TO GET 500 ODD,NOPROBLemM cook will get 90.bell 130 peterson 85 collingwood 120 flintoff60, jones 50hoggard4 harmison 15 and monty willscore the winning run.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:56 PM

Well i never knew there were two Tom Hamiltons.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John O'L
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 07:29 PM

Well I'll be amazed and overjoyed if England win this test or even draw it, and I'll gladly eat my hat, feather and all.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:12 AM

Oh well, I wake up this morning and have a look at the score thinking it would all be (at least effectively) over and see 244-3. All outcomes still possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:39 AM

For 5 now...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:40 AM

If the Poms can bat long enough to get a draw, they shoud be able to score enough runs to win it - so the draw might be a longer chance that an England victory.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:58 AM

265-5 at close. Shame about the 2 wickets near the end. I'd have felt much happier with Cook still there.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:59 AM

When Collingwood went cheaply, I knew it was going down the pan.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:23 AM

WaHooooo!

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:01 AM

Well there is no doubt that the Aussies played out of their skin and thoroughly deserve winning the Ashes.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:37 AM

Aye, congrats to Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 08:04 AM

I thoroughly regretted that Real Life meant that I missed parts of the whole thing on TV or Radio - I think it was one of the best three Test matches in my living memory. Now let's see if the supposedly best team in the world can emulate the 1920/21 Aussie team that did the Poms over 5-0...

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 08:35 AM

The pressure is off the Aussies now Foolestroupe and I reckon that England will win the next 2 test matches.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 08:45 AM

I don't think they are going to relax even sligtly, Villan. Some other years, perhaps, but I think us winning the Ashes last time did sort of hurt them to rhe extent they really do want to win 5-0.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Dec 06 - 08:14 PM

Fourth Test now in progress - but if the Pommy batsmen keep leaving the gate open the way they have been doing do far, it won't last three days.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Dec 06 - 08:22 PM

Bloody Melbourne! Now it's raining. Could this save the poor old Poms? Can Duncan Fletcher give them some quick coaching on the relative positions of bat and pad during the break?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 04:24 AM

Why ever did England decide to bat having won the toss.
Once again a frail batting show from England.
Thank goodness Flintoff is still able to take wickets injured or not.
It has to be seen what England can do tomorrow.
Panesar is in my opinion the only other bowler who can take wickets on a regular basis. Lets hope he can get the ball early and desimate the Aussies.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 05:19 AM

seen England like this before.

This tour is their equivalent of a bad gig.

They're in the 'let's bugger off out of here, onto the next debacle, we've got an empire to run' mode.

Psychologically they've not just booked out of the hotel; they've bought the duty frees, and are currently deciding which inflight movie to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 04:51 PM

All together now, to the tune of Amazing Grace, 4 nillllll, 4 nillll, 4nillll, 4 nillll.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 04:59 PM

Guest 4Q 4Q 4Q 4Q

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Allen in OZ
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:41 PM

Given events this morning we may need Warne to not only get 700 test wickets but also score 100 in batting !! When he goes , I may have to declare my availability for the Australian team

AD 1943

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Dec 06 - 05:32 AM

They have lost their way big time, and it's a lesson from the Australians in how to approach the game in a positive manner, that maybe England will take to heart.
However if I have to Listen to Geoffrey Boycott's whining and moaning any more, I may just be forced to throw my radio out of the window!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Paul Burke
Date: 27 Dec 06 - 05:51 AM

Ashes? Sackcloth as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 27 Dec 06 - 10:27 AM

It might have been a different story if the umpires had given the two lbws that Hoggard earned at the begininning of the Australian innings. Hoggard gets left handers lbw with his swing bowling with the new ball, and if the umpires aren't prepared to give these decisions then it blunts an important part of the England attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Dec 06 - 11:32 AM

I don't think so, Paul. I think they would still have found someone to pull them through and take advantage. So often, that has been a noticable difference (last series was different) between us.

England from the 100 for 2, a healthy position, to 150 odd all out is not earth shattering news. On the other hand even if Australia were 80 for 6, you (or at least I) have the feeling 250 plus (though I must admit this one has surprised me in how high they have got) is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Dec 06 - 11:33 AM

(sorry, I meant Les from Hull, not Paul)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Dec 06 - 09:53 AM

I agree with JKMCK, Boycott is an obnoxious whinger, I have never heard anyone boast as much, he made his centuries in days, a boring bastard as a player and a summarizer.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Dec 06 - 02:25 PM

they need to play ed joyce,an irish man.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 06:20 AM

They need to not leave the bleedin' gate open, as I said.

I would have thought Duncan Fletcher, as coach, would be doing something about it.

Reminds me of the Aussie bowlers and their no-balls last year - with Buchanan not doing anything I could see to fix them.

We still have a situation where nearly half the runs in the whole match wre scored by two batsmen, which indicates a brittleness in both sides. I wouldn't take 5-0 for the series for granted, that's for sure, especially with the possibility of rain in Sydney.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Allen in OZ
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 05:16 PM

It were ALWAYS rainin in Sydney ( or Denley Moor). I think the answer lies not only in the soil,as Arthur Fallowfield would have suggested, but in the captaincy of Freddie and the failure of the selectors to play Monty earlier. Also, there is the slight factor of Warne ( I saw him get his first wiicket at the SCG )

Best wishes

AD1943

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:47 AM

Sad, sad, sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:55 AM

Lets face it, at the moment England do not have that killer instinct that the Aussies have.
Through the series, Australia have played some superb cricket and it has been a delight to watch.
I don't think England have too bad a team, but are unfortunate that they have met a very strong Aussie team.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 07:36 AM

Well there is no doubt in my mind about the quality of Australia. I do however feel that England have under-achieved in this series. I don't think we would have won the series but had we been as we were last Ashes, I think we would have put on a better show.

I think only the weather can save us now but, let's hope England can pick up the pieces and we get a better series next time.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:31 PM

there are another 42 overs before the new ball.I reckon england might manage to hang on till then.ONCEthe new ball is taken, NO.
I predict australia might have a total of 140 to get

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 08:39 PM

Thank you Gentlemen - please come back again!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 03:51 AM

Now the poor bastards have to hang around for the one day series, when I am sure that they would be much happier on a plane headed north west.

Not enough preparation - should have had a couple of first class games before the Tests.

Wrong captain - much as I admire Freddie.

Interesting that people think Pietersen is a weakness because of perceived personality problems. Geoff Boycott was a damned sight worse, but he was the rock on which Mike Brearley's winning team was built.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 04:50 AM

>>Wrong captain - much as I admire Freddie.<<

Agreed. Flintoff is not the same. I also do not like seeing a bowler as captain.

Unlike a batsman as captain, a bowler captain will always overbowl themselves to the detriment of the other bowlers.

I don't know who the coach is for bowling, but I think we need a new coach for that. Somebody who will teach them to bowl accurately and on a length. What about McGrath or Warne?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 07:39 AM

Nothing to say really - it was all said on the pitch.

Last series was narrowly won by the marginally better team and Captain - this one was convincingly won by the far better team and Captain.

Every time the England team needed to do something - like not lose a wicket before close of play - the Australian team just made sure they didn't.

Looking forward to the next time as the only thing to do with a Aussie with their tail-up - is to make sure you kick it good and hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 08:07 AM

What is the England record against Australia over the past 20 Tests? I haven`t checked but at a guess I would say 2 to 3 England victories in the Ashes.
The Aussies are the masters in every department, finding the formula for a successful England team looks like a very long hard road.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 04:19 PM

Someone once said the Australians' national sport was winning.

To me that is the difference between the two teams, not the difference in talent or quality of players, but of will to win.

Australia had it by the shovelful, England didn't even have a glimmer of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 03:42 AM

Blimey Frletcher mus have seen my post about the bowling coaches
My Quote
I don't know who the coach is for bowling, but I think we need a new coach for that. Somebody who will teach them to bowl accurately and on a length. What about McGrath or Warne?
End of quote

Have a read
Warne & McGrath

Maybe I should become his personal advisor LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 08:32 AM

good ,Warne may be able to help leg spinners too.yorkshire have two young good ones.FLETCHER should include them in the squad,if he does get warne as a bowling coach,one of them Rashid is a good batsman too.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Terry K
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:19 AM

We were thoroughly outplayed by a much better side. My "target" for the series was 2 draws at best - I still think we would have achieved that except the weather let us down (it failed to rain enough)(smirk).

Seriously, I believe the key is in looking at the ages of the players. The Aussies are all relatively mature cricketers who have "served their time" over the years. Look at Brett Lee - he had to wait years before moving up to a full place, by which time he had acquired sufficient mental maturity to last the pace at the highest level. And Symonds. And Stuart Clark ..... etc etc. And those who think they are now in trouble because of losing Warne, McGrath and Langer should think again - they have plenty of experienced talent waiting in the wings.

By contrast, we see a bright young lad in the County game and immediately put him into the Test side, long before he is ready (Mahmoud was there why exactly?). I believe the strain of test cricket is such that a player has a limited number of years before he burns out, so if you start a player too young, he will be burned out by the time he reaches his physical and mental peak. It happened to Thorpe, now to Trescothick, and it looks as though Harmison is in a similar boat.

We also have a penchant for discarding players who don't find immediate success, in the hope that the next bright young thing will achieve. What happened to Robert Key, and a couple of years previously, Nick Knight?

Interestin to note that the other Test side which follows the same principal of playing raw youngsters on rapid turnover is Bangladesh. 'Nuff said?

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

Didn't Shane Warne start young?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:15 PM

I suppose that the age you start Test Cricket will vary a lot depending on which country and how well they are doing.

If your country isn't doing too well, you may fell that you want to change some players. You can look at players you've rejected in the past or you can try somebody younger. For the Aussies it's been hard to get into the team because the established players have been doing so well. And if a player has a drop in form there's no need to rush him out of the side if his team-mates are still performing well and the side is winning. So when a new player comes in he has plenty of of experience and his skills are well developed.

But then sometimes some schoolkid comes along and amazes everyone with his talent. Sachin Tendulkar, anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:15 PM

Trouble is, with many mainstream sports in the UK, average sportsmen/women can make a fabulous living being nothing more than mediocre. When they are put on the world stage, the cracks begin to show......

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Big Phil
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:19 PM

last post was from me at 05:15 PM Cookie re set now

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM

As a Scot I'm supposed to support England to tell the truth I support Australia because most of my famliy live there and I there for my holidays sometimes, so COME ON AUSSIE COME ON COME ON I feel sorry about the 'English' team getting beat, well not really.

as shane warne was asked why he was fat he said the every time he fucked your wife she would give him a sandwich.(reporter's wife)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 08:46 PM

A vegemite sandwich, no doubt. Glad to see you know which side your bread is buttered, Tom :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:06 PM

Tom Hamilton - 06 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM

"As a Scot I'm supposed to support England"

As a Scot Tom are you really that pathetic?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:09 PM

Geeze Teribus, who pissed on your cornflakes today?

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:14 PM

Nobody JennyO, absolutely nobody

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 06:05 AM

I don't think many English people feel sorry for england. It seems a bit stupid sending a team if you're not good enough to give them a decent game

And good enough comes in a lot of different packages. Once again you are left with the uneasy feeling that te selectors have cocked up at some elemental level - maybe not seeing enough county matches and seeing what talent there is out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:14 AM

tom hamilton,the original quote [I think ]was made by a new zealand cricketer[appropriately named ] Martin Greatbatch,who asked by an australian bowler,why he was so fat,said evry time I f... your wife she gives me a biscuit[in fact the aussie bowler may well have been warne].

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:21 AM

CORRECTION. MARK Greatbatch.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:28 AM

There seem to a few suggestions on the internet. The most likely to me seems to be Eddo Brandes of Zimbawe in response to Glen McGrath.

Wikipedia gives:

In an (in)famous incident Australian fast bowler Glenn McGrath remarked after Brandes had just hit him for two fours "Hey Eddo, why are you so fucking fat?", to which Brandes is reputed to have replied "Because every time I fuck your wife, she gives me a biscuit".

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:31 AM

Tom
>>I support Australia because most of my famliy live there and I there for my holidays<<
Didn't know your family had a criminal background LOL

You asked for that as a Scotsman :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 09:42 AM

well my brother Jim does, he went to court for stealing ice cream and was found not guilty.
the reason was the polis had the wrong man.
I support two teams in the world Scotland and any other team that beats England.
I just dont like the English, I mean I wish sometimes I was in Australia, they complain about the poms, and yet unlike them we in Scotland have to live next door to them. As indiviutals they are all right but as a nation no way, and that is the view of my brother in law who himself is from England

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 09:43 AM

PS,

I don't beleive in bowing down or kow towing to the English unlike some Scots do

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 09:59 AM

Life has changed much since I lived in Scotland then.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 10:04 AM

Whats amazing, is if I had a go at the Scots, I would be rascist, but we have to take it from the Scots and all other parts of the UK. :-)

I remember once a Welsh guy posting on another forum about how good Wales were at Rugby and they would wallop England. However England walloped them.

So for a laugh, I put a number of jokes on the thread about sheep.

This bloke accused me of being rascist and copmplained to the moderators. Obviously can't handle life.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:20 AM

Ok,

As I say I like some English not all, it's the same with the Scots, I can't get on with some and not others, and you telling jokes about the welsh and sheep well you're the same as me then aren't you a racist. but that is Politcal Correctness, I remember some saying to Frank Carson that he was racist because he told Irish Jokes, I mean the guy is Irish and he's tell jokes about his own countrymen/women.

An Englishman was in the zoo were he saw a lion on the ground cleaning his arse, when he asked the zoo keeper why he was doing that the zoo keeper said well about half an hour ago, the lion grabbed an Englishman into the cage and ate him, but sid the Englishman that doesn't explain why it's licking his arse, well said the zoo keeper the lion has to get of the taste somehow.

you accuse all Australians are criminals, the Welsh and sheep and yet you don't consider yourself as racist, I know I say racists things, but that's me.
so why not admit that you're a racist and if you don't then you're a hypocrite, like me

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:21 AM

well you accuse memebers of my family as criminals didn't you.

From: The Villan - PM
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:31 AM

Tom
>>I support Australia because most of my famliy live there and I there for my holidays<<
Didn't know your family had a criminal background LOL

You asked for that as a Scotsman :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:23 AM

PPS.

I'm just a grumpy old shit that doesn't think before writing stuff.

so I'm sorry for writing that shit.

Tom

lets agree to disagree

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:59 PM

I was only kidding Tom and trying to wind you up :-).

I took a lot of stick from the Scots when I lived up there and learn't how to give it out without getting upset. I made a lot of good friends whilst I was up there. I got invited to all the carry oots and the first footings and the Rangers & Falkirk matches and I was the only Englishman. I loved my time up there O(except for the first 6 months whilst I got used to the Glaswegian language)

I just find it quite sad that we can't have a laugh and joke these days wikthout somebody bringing in the PC brigade etc.

Like you but in the oposite direction, love to see the Scots get beaten at Football & Rugby especially if its England.

Where it gets dangerous is when somebody personally insults somebody and means it. Like when offensive Guests post.

I don't really know what Rascism is as such. In my time and travels I have had, Jamaican/West Indian, Indian, Pakistani, Egyptian, German, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, French, American, Dutch (my wife is Dutch :-) ), friends.

The majority through playing cricket, football, squash, badmington. We all gave each other as good as we got, but above all we were friends.

Isn't Racsim the hatred of a Country or nation or group of people?

I might hate somebody becuase they have physically done something towards me etc, but that doesn't mean that I hate the couintry they come from.

I think we are slowly losing our sense of humour and disapearing up our own A******.

Any way just incase, no hatred from me to you Tom, just hopefully good humerous banter. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:09 PM

That's ok villian.

no harm done, as I say dome of my in laws are English, and I have cousins who are American, Australian, Polish, and I have nephews and nieces who are Australian as well.

Tom

So as I say, no harm done.

Subject: RE: BS: Ashes
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:49 PM

How about this link Tom

Cricket fan sells home to pay for Ashes trip to Oz

Now I think he is a really nice Scotsman :-)

Who was the last person from Scotland to play for England ?