BS: Legalise Prostitution?

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: saulgoldie
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 01:20 PM

The fact of its illegality is what makes it so much more dangerous to women. The other problems that drive women to prostitution are just that: other problems. They should be dealt with in the appropriate manner in the appropriate environment. Keeping prostitution illegal does not make a junkie any less likely to sell herself for a fix. Anyways, don't we have truly dangerous people out there who would better occupy prison cells making society truly safer?

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 01:45 AM

All the more reason to make it legal.
The woman work for ligit houses, have routine medical check ups & are "certified clean". So there goes the junkies & pimps.
Clean up the profession, bring it back to respectable, in Nevada the houses have their own highway exit so's not to bother the neighborhood
& the politicians won't have to guit their jobs everytime they get caught going through the door, the priests maight feel a little bit better about themselves too

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: meself
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 11:47 PM

"To get laid? What a joke. It will never happen, so forget it."

That's pretty harsh on poor ol' Bodad. There's always hope; you never know, someday he'll meet the right girl ...

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 11:13 PM

....and goats.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 11:11 PM

... and sons.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 11:04 PM

It keeps the evangelists and politicians away from our daughters.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 11:01 PM

Good one 6. You always did have some common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 11:00 PM

yes, but bobad 95% of hookers aren't high class call girls ... they are desperate junkies selling themselves out on the streets.

social need or not ... it's human degradation.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:57 PM

Social need? To get laid? What a joke. It will never happen, so forget it. Thank GOD it will never happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:54 PM

It fulfills a social need and it's criminalization is what degrades society.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:50 PM

It does not enhance a society in any way. It degrades it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:47 PM

Good point bobad .... that is human tragedy in itself.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:43 PM

The crime is that it is a crime, it can be legitimized and regulated but, as saulgoldie says, there is no political capital to be had by doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:40 PM

I have to agree with Stranger regarding that post .... that's why it should somehow be legalized and controlled.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:37 PM

Except, Saulgoldie, that many prostitutes are exploited by men, are sometimes desperate people, and really do nothing to enhance a neighborhood where people just might want to raise children.

Prostitution is not a victimless crime. It does not enhance a society.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 09:52 PM

Uncoerced consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever they want to do as long as they are not hurting others. Republicans who rant about the government being too much involved in our lives should be leading the charge. Except that they are too wrapped up in their moralistic meddling in all matters reproductive for OTHERS that are just plain none of their business. I don't think that they will change any time soon, however.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:35 PM

Katlaughing, easy way to make a living,,,,in the sense that you dont need to study hard at school or college to do it. And why should a young person work hard at school, go onto college, then university to get into a proffession that will only pay 20k a year, when they can earn far more lying on theyre backs becoming dirty meat for someone they have contempt for. even if they manage to get out of that vile trade, they will always be scarred, but this horrific reality will only become evident when you have taken the plunge.

As i have stated before, i dont think anyone takes money for sexual favor without leaving a part of theyre emotional self, nothing is easy about that.

Your absolutely right about many factors that can cause someone to fall into prostitution, i just wanted to point out the obvious...

There has been so many real facts written in this thread, and it is obvious everyone has only the best interests of the vulnerable in mind. I dont want to come across as someone who is self righteous pompous or sitting on the fence. i just want to look at the whole idea of legalised prostitution.what you give with one hand, you take with the other...its just the way things are.

If you are going to get a balanced opinion, you need to understand the other side, listen and see it from that side, this doesnt mean you have surrender you ideals.

Anyway, i´m gonna sign off this thread now, thankyou to everyone who has made me think about this for the last few days, i waited and tried to come up with an argument to counter balance the general view of the thread. Who knows, legalisation might be the way forward. But i have a feeling we will never find out...

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM

Blindlemonsteve, I don't doubt your sincerity, but you contradict yourself. On one hand you state that prostitution is an easy way to make a living and on the other you talk about how horrible and difficult it is.

As for it being easy, I have to totally disagree with you. There is nothing easy about lying down with a perfect stranger and subjecting one's body to their every desire, nor is it easy to negotiate pay for the same.

I also don't believe it is always a result of drug addiction or broken family. Yes, those can be factors in such a choice, but not always. There is so much else that can effect one's decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:20 PM

I am not aware that i ever attempted to make peoples moral choices for them, merely opened the debate up to look at it from another angle, as i have said, i clearly understand why people think legalisation would work, i am just putting another angle on it. I live in a country where there are loads of brothels, regulated and clean, they are not legal, but they are accepted, its not hard for any prostitute to work in one of these brothels. so effectively prostition in all but name is legal. so why when i go shopping do i see at least 15 to 20 working girls on the side of the road, some are young and innocent, and look like they desperately need a decent home and a new start, some have just been through the mill for so long, they have almost resided themselves to the fact that prostitution is all they are worth. I feel sad everytime i see them, I thank my lucky stars that i have not had to tread that path. prostitution is a desired proffesion by very few. it is a harsh result of a cruel and punishing drug addiction, pimp, broken family.

Only when we have tackled these issues, and cracked down hard on the scumbags that traffic this vile trade, can we think about legalising so that we can have proffesional sex workers..... For what its worth, i know this is an ideal, and my optimism sounds ridiculous, but i am prepared to strive for the ideal, and not settle for making do. I wonder how many people here have ever even spoken to a prostitute, or had a relative fall into it. I suspect not too many... Its so easy to sweep all the issus under the carpet and say that people would choose to do it safely if it were legalised.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:20 AM

there is a petition to be signed on line in favour,   visit

WAYNEROONY.COM,SHREK.UK

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:30 AM

Blindlemonsteve, I have to respect your optimism about stamping out prostitution. However, if you want to get some idea of how long the profession has been with us, you might Check out Joshua, Chapter Two.
You can not make other people's moral choices for them. I think it is a more reasonable assumption to say that prostitution is going to be with us for some time yet. There is really no choice about whether we are going to live with it. The fact is, we simply have to decide how we are going to live with it.
It exists on so many levels, that total regulation of it is a pipe dream. Prositution can be a wife tolerating sex with an unloved husband (and I believe that is prostitution). It can also be junkie desperate for a fix. It can be a thousand things in between. The attempts to fix problems, when they have already reached the stage that women take this option are usually expensive and counter productive. If we invest our efforts in helping to prevent women slipping into these desperate straits, we can reduce the amount of prostitution considerably. Moral outrage is a poor policy maker.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:20 AM

People seem to have got the wrong end of what i´m saying,,,,, i think, and this is only my opinion, that if prostitution were legalised, it would start to become accepted as a normal way to make a living. i am not saying its the easy way out at the moment, only that it could be seen that way if it were an "Acceptable" proffesion.... and its all perfectly well and good for us lot who are emotionly sound and able to think clearly because we come from a well rounded family. the line that working girls can be looked after etc etc,,,,blah bla blah is rubbish. sex is the most explosive form of emotion we have, no one gives it away for money without losing a part of themselves. this will in time cause more problems than it solves...i am not saying that we have the perfect situation, but surely we need to be looking at ways to get people out of prostitution. try to show that there are other options, jail pimps, come down hard on drug pushers etc... I do understand the call for legalising prostitution, but i think its a short term solution to a long term problem, and the line about not wanting my kids to walk dogs clear bins etc etc,,,, your missing the point, you dont get emotionly F@@#ed up for the rest of your life if you do those jobs.
and your right, i havent tried prostitution, because i am one of the lucky ones. i have been blessed with parents that cared about me and my welfare.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:46 PM

blindllemonsteve - You answered your own question. I would not like my children involved in prostitution because, I too, "believe the phsycological sexual problems would be immense." I want my children to have healthy emotional relationships. I think prostitution is emotionally devastating for most and I do not think that it is an "easy way or an easy way to make a living."

If its so easy, why don't you try it?

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 07:12 PM

If prostitutes were treated with honor as citizens, whether male of female, in the way that, say, chiropractors are, their lives would be no more at risk than any other practitioner...

It would not matter if they were treated with honour, Amos. All that matters is what goes on behind closed doors and when it's about sex it can get violent and usually it is the woman who is the victim. There just aren't always the social restraints as there might be in a visit to the chiro.

That is not to say I am against legislation to legalise it. I think it should be legalised.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 06:49 PM

If you legalise it, then you can have properly licensed and organised premises. These can be staffed by people who can be trained to spot the nutters, the unwashed, the drunk, the "desperados " etc.The ladies themselves can be encouraged to have regular medical check-ups, as a pre-condition to getting a licence to "trade ".This would immediately rule out the hollow-eyed skeletons who willingly demean themselves just to get their next "fix".These are the ones who spread the infections and,sadly, run the greatest risk of being the objects of sadistic violence. Once you allow women to run brothels etc (I hate that word !! Bordello is so much nicer---even "Cat house " !!) on THEIR terms, a lot of the problems vanish.One has to remember that there are many, many women who are "on the Game " as we say in England, for reasons not necessarily connected with coercion, addiction,or desperation. A few years ago, I saw a documentary about a bunch of beautiful,educated,articulate,self-confident young ladies who were paying their way through college by "entertaining " wealthy Japanese business men in Sydney, Australia. They saw no shame in it, and were sufficiently well-organised to be pretty confident about staying both clean and safe !! In The Netherlands in the last ten years or so, the authorities set up a car-park, where "Prostis " and their clients could go to transact their business, in Amsterdam. The car-park had/has security guards, and is well lit, so the women know that they only have to scream ,or sound the car horn, to get any trouble stopped before it can start.There are even some women,who would not, or cannot, dream of doing anything else OTHER than prostitution for a living.The classic case was of the Australian TV reporter who tried to "save " a bar-girl in ,I think, Thailand or Vietnam. He asked her why she did what she did, and she replied that she needed enough money for a small farm, so she could support her family. He really liked her, so he got 20,000 dollars together , or something like that, and took her back to her family in the countryside. Six months later, he comes back from Australia, but she is not on the farm . So he goes to Bangkok, or wherever, and she"s back working in a bar !! -----Because she likes it, she misses it, and the farm was boring !! So , no amount of protesting ,or agonising, or moralising ,is ever going to stop some women from wanting to join the world"s "Oldest Profession ", so I guess you high-falutin' ladies in the USA ( and England ! ) had better get used to that idea . Instead of condemning, and wringing your hands in horror, why not do something constructive to HELP these people ?? PUSH for prostitution to be legalised and regulated----INSIST on free medical checks for "the girls "---EDUCATE people about prostitution, what it is, and why some folks do it, and some folks need it. SURELY ---At the end of the day ---If legalising prostitution saves the life of just ONE young student, or nurse on her way home through the park ,who dies because some weirdo can"t get sex any other way ( And you can"t ban desire ) , then it would have been worth it ?? Don"t fight it---Try and UNDERSTAND it !!
I suppose now you are thinking " Has he done any research ?" !! Well, Yes, I must say I have ---in Hong Kong, Singapore, Plymouth ( England ) and Edinburgh ( Scotland )!! . I was willingly and enthusiastically assisted in my endeavours by ,at various times and locations, fellow Social Anthropology students from colleges including ; HMS EAGLE--USS SANCTUARY---USS McCLOY---USS SPRINGFIELD , and ,to include Canada, HMCS BONAVENTURE ..( There were others !! ) That"s quite a few thousand researchers, so why not ask them for their opinion on the subject ??   !!

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:24 PM

Well you know frogprince I'm kind of tired of those who sit on the fence on this issue while so many working (mostly) girls are getting beaten up, hooked on drugs and killed. Blindlemonsteve says "the problem with legalising it is that it in some way give it credibility" well goddamn it that's what it needs, credibility. He also says it's an easy way to make a living an easy way out. That kind of judgementalism makes my blood boil. Sex is a beautiful thing between two people blah, blah, blah.... not everyone in society lives by those precepts and everyone deserves respect for their beliefs.

IMO, there are two choices either legalize and control prostitution for the protection of the workers or accept the status quo, I see no half measures.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:59 PM

Bobad, I don't think blindlemonsteve either said that or implied it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:43 PM

"if its a good idea to legalise prostitution, why wouldnt you want your son or daughter to do it?...."

Do you prefer the alternative as we now have it; pimps who control their prostitutes by violence and drugs and no prtection for the workers from violent clients?

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:33 PM

I would prefer my son or daughter not walk dogs or collect trash for a living, or draw tattoos. that doesn't mean those things should be illegal.

No provider of human services has to accept a client.

If I were a working girl I'd be damn sure to filter the raincoat crowd out of my prospect list, wouldn't you?

Don't get me wrong. I think it's a lousy way to make a living, and I wouldn't turn my hand to it myself, or patronize it. To that degree I share your tastes. But that doesn't mean I would want to criminalize those who do.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:08 PM

I dont disagree with legalisaion, and i can see the benefits to the working girls, the problem with legalising it is that it in some way give it credibility. In reality its the easy way to make a living, i wonder how many people would turn to prostitution rather than make a living in the real world, and achieve something that is truly worth having. I think if you earn your money the easy way, does it make what you have worth having. and that is the real problem, in time prostitution would become like working at maccie D´s. something you do to get you by. the phsycological sexual problems would be immense. sex is a great thing between 2 people who either love each other, or just want to have a bit of freely given fun. i wonder how you would view it when youve had some dirty old raincoater all over you for a few quid. this is a massive issue, and not one to be taken lightly. there is so much more to it than just giving safe haven to prostitutes. so, my question is, if its a good idea to legalise prostitution, why wouldnt you want your son or daughter to do it?....

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 01:02 PM

I think you are missing my point completely. Getting violent with another human being is a crime. If the other person is a prostitute, it is the same crime, and the nature of the crime has nothing to do with her trade.

If prostitutes were treated with honor as citizens, whrether male of female, in the way that, say, chiropractors are, their lives would be no more at risk than any other practitioner, or perhaps only slightly madly so because sex as a subject often has a lot of insanity tied to it. That aspect is genuinely a risk of the business. Psychiatrists have the same risk in a difgferent way, of running into nutballs or desperate people.

This is not likely to happen in a culture such as ours where sex has taken on such distortions of meaning and become tied to such heavy emotional packages, but that doesn't mean it is any the less true. The crime of prostitution is that it is criminalized, making criminals of those who practice it, whether as clients or vendors. This means that those who practice it are forced into the shadows.

Another aspect of this cultural blindness is that emotional intimacy is a great scarcity and an absence hard to heal in poeple's lives once the starvation starts dictating behaviour. In a different world, those who healed people by filling emotional scarcities might be considered rare heroes.

I have never paid (explicitly and directly) for love or sex; but I have known some who sold it, and more who bought it, and they always struck me as people whose deficits -- especially the buyers -- were primarily emotional rather than physical. Just an observation.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 12:07 PM

Exactly, Kat.

Thats why most of the Johns are married men.

In my neighborhood, the most effective way of ridding the streets of prostitutes was to start 'naming the Johns.' We took photos and wrote down license plate numbers. The prostitutes soon moved their business elsewhere.

If brothels were esablished, at least the prostitutes would have protection. This will not, however, eliminate the lucrative street business of turning tricks for violent men. Most of those prostitutes subject themselves to violence because they are drug addicted. We need to provide the drugs so that we can end the cycle of violence.

Drug addiction can be treated as a medical condition. Why isn't this being done? Because its the most profitable business in the blackmarket (think prohibition) and because, once again, we are blaming the victim. Treating drug addiction would be the most effective way of decreasing violence in our society.

If the U.S. really wanted to win the war on drugs, they would stop trying to bust the users (pointless), the pushers (new ones are ready to take their place) and stop destroying the crops in Afghanistan and elsewhere. We only prolong the war and turn farmers toward the Taliban and other war lords for protection of their livelihood. Instead of being seen as 'the enemy', we can end the production of heroin by providing medical care and destroying the market. The industry would soon dry up.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:58 AM

Amos, you are making a huge assumption that there are no victims when it is boiled down to just two consenting adults, a business deal, if you will. The woman could turn into a victim very quickly should the "john" turn violent, which happens all too often as that is the one way men are "sanctioned" to let their inhibitions go, i.e. do things to/with a prostitute which they would never dare/dream to do with a wife or girlfriend.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:23 AM

I think the distinction has been left implicit in the foregoing between prostitution and other crimes, such as white slavery, violation of civil rights, abuse, labor fraud, coercion, breach of promise, and physical assault. These things are all crimes AND they are associated with drugs and prostitution. But this association of ideas is not a necessary linkage; it is possible that the reason these events appear in related clusters is because they are all the province of criminals.

Prostitution, despite its moral penumbra, is not a criminal act in itself, in its nature. It is a free contract between consenting adults. The criminality enters in when pimps, drugs, desperate runaways and minors are thrown into the mix, and health and civil liberties go by the boards.

Bobert is correct that of itself it is a victimless crime. The vicitimization is largely thrust on the practitioner because of the illegality.

There are other issues around the practice because it often acts as an escape from broken or dysfunctional relationships in families who should be spending that energy, one might think, repairing their connections. But so are bars, nightclubs, poolhalls, and so on, all of which serve as retreats for thos ewho cannot communicate or who have built unhealthy connections in life.

I don't think the relationship between criminality and prostitution is a causal link; I think it is a by-product of knee-jerk management.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: guitar
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:19 AM

And certain drugs as well, I have never taken drugs

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: guitar
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:18 AM

as a Christian I'm supposed to say no, however I agree lealise it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:21 PM

Historical Note

John

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 04:34 PM

Perhaps these two have the answer to the problem of street prostitution. Seems to me they had a viable business. If they had paid taxes on their 'home business', it could be a way to legalize this type of operation.

However, it does not address the problem of safety and exploitation of the drug addicted, street prostitute working for a pimp.

It isn't the act of prostitution that bothers me. Its the level of violence that street prostitutes are subjected to. They are abused by both pimps and johns. How do we stop this unless we give them access to the drugs that they need? Of course, the men who commit the violence, would probably just find another outlet for their desire to batter women.

Now thats a frightening thought. Prostitutes are just a dumping ground for the men who abuse them. How do we stop sexual abuse of women?

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: alanabit
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:22 PM

There are moralists, who like to poke their oar into these things. I wonder who they think they are helping. The ladies in that report make very unconvincing "victims", which goes to support the idea that no "one size fits all" type of legislation is going to help those at the bottom of the food chain.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:52 PM

A little to the "other side" of the sort of prostitution most here have talked about, but:

2 held in $10,000-'date' prostitution case

Former Penthouse Pet among pair arrested in Atlanta area, police say

The Associated Press
Updated: 2:13 p.m. CT Jan 5, 2007

DULUTH, Ga. - Two suburban women — including one whom police identified as a former Penthouse Pet — have been arrested for prostitution in a case in which "dates" could cost as much as $10,000, authorities said.

Lisa Ann Taylor, 42, was arrested Wednesday at her million-dollar home in the exclusive Sugarloaf Country Club area.

She was charged with violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act. She also was charged with prostitution, keeping a place of prostitution and conspiracy to possess cocaine, District Attorney Danny Porter said.

Her alleged partner, Nicole Probert, 30, of Lawrenceville, was arrested on the same charges, Porter said. Both women are cooperating, but police said they had to force entry into Probert's home with a battering ram.

Both women are suspected of participating in prostitution in Gwinnett County and other states, Porter said.

"A 'date' can cost as much as $5,000 to $10,000," Porter said. "Eight-hundred to $1,000 for the prostitution act is the bottom-line price. They have a large number of customers. ... It's not street prostitution."

[Just a couple of workin' girls, I guess.]

John

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: alanabit
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 08:00 AM

I am not sure that immigration controls are the answer. Criminals are able to trick and bully people into working in a sub culture of low pay, which falls below the radar of the authorities. Let's target that. As an island, Britain´s border is more difficult to get through, but it is still frequently breached. I would hazard a guess that Germany has a far bigger problem of workers being smuggled in to work for very low pay.
There are similarities between the exploitation of all these groups, although prostitution is the most tragic. When prostitutes are imported, they face the fear of both deportation and possible disgrace/reprisals against their families in their home country. They are easier to punish than than their exploiters.
Sadly, this is also true of many of the exploited builders, cleaners and crop pickers, who come in from Eastern Europe. If caught, they are likey to be fined and have their earnings stolen by the host country. The authorities frequently punish the workers rather than the sods, who exploit them by trafficking them or paying below market (or even legal) wage levels. Humane immigration controls are defensible, but harsh punishment of exploited people is not making the law either enforceable or respected. I am not sure what you mean by "better immigration controls", Sapper, but I hope it is something along those lines.
I am in agreement with the general drift of your comments. It is obvious that the further we push drug addicts and prostitutes outside the law, the more likely they are to fall prey to ever more ruthless predators.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: sapper82
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 05:03 AM

Some good comments Alanabit.
Essentially, prostitution to feed a drug habit is a side effect of the drug culture, to combat that we need to find ways of effectivly countering that culture.
Broadening the discussion to include this related problem, my ideas on countering illegal drugs include stigmatising the social use as well as providing better and faster support for addicts.
We need to put in place a system of clinics where addicts may register, then receive supplies and be supervised in a safe, hygenic environment.
Other measures could then be put in place to attack the drug user as much as the pusher.
Regarding the effect of this on prostitution, there will be at least a small chance of getting the girls who are on drugs out of the reach of the pimps.
There will, of course, still be the problem of "white slavery" with girls from overseas being tricked and forced into prostitution, this will of course require better immigration controls, something we can whistle for with this excuse of a government.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:56 PM

The obvious, and I feel valid, example was the massive failure of Prohibition. Repeal worked wonders in cleaning up the vast criminal organizations that Prohibition spawned. And the trade today in bootleg liquor is, if not totally eliminated, reduced to more-or-less manageable proportions.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 01:26 PM

I have agreed with a lot of the comments on this thread. Prostitution has been with us throughout history and I can't see it disappearing from the world anytime soon. What legislators should do about it is always debatable, but the concensus arising (and I agree with it) is that clumsy, moralistic legislation makes a bad situation worse. There are many different levels of prostitution, so any "one size fits all" type law is doomed before it gets on the statute books.
We can't remove the stigma from prostitution overnight, but we could do a lot to reduce it. The greater the stigma attached to this way of life, the easier it is for criminals to bully, extort from and terrorise victims. Many women would literally rather die than to have their families know that they were involved. This decreases their security from day one and also makes the business even harder to leave.
I think a similar moralistic attitude has made a disaster of the drug laws. By all means hammer the dealers. For me you can saw their balls off slowly. On the other hand, if we allow the sick and the drug addicted to get their gear at the chemist's we can undercut the dealers and supply clean drugs at reliably measured doses. Would that eliminate drug addiction? Of course it would not. It would save us the dreadful spectacle of desperate young people living lives of theft and prostitution though. You simply can not make the decision that another human being will stop taking drugs. You can simply make it less likely that drug addicts will become prostitutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: sapper82
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:53 AM

To EMMA B;
Given that the Swedish experiment has a dark side that is not talked about, i.e. that of the "Red Light" industry continuing, but in the grip of criminal gangs and has resulted in increased violence to the women involved, I fell that a "knee jerk" reaction to the Ipswich murders of criminalising the punters would be just as counter productive.
The experience of Edinburgh with the Permissive Areas in the Leith area led to much less violence towards the girls involved in the sex industry and a much lower rate of drug abuse, with fewer pimps being involved.
In addition to this, the girls organised themselves better to support and protact each other, including noting and recording who got into what car. This led to the arrest, within hours, of the perpetrator of the one murder that occurred during this time.
Since the "Permissive Area" scheme was dropped, almost entirely due to pressure of "Yuppie" incommers, violence towards the girls and drug abuse amongst them have both increased tremendously
We will never get rid of this trade. The current situation leaves the girls working in the profession who choose, or are forced, to work on the streets with little protection.
The idea of allowing small brothels where two girls could work legally would take a lot of these women off the streets and into a safer, more secure environment. Unfortunately, that proposal instead of being followed up, has been squashed by No.10.
And before anyone runs away with the idea that only drug addicts or "trafficed" illegal imigrants are forced into prostitution, there was a Radio 4 Women's Hour programme item a couple of years back into the saunas and massage parlours in Glasgow that showed that half to two thirds of the girls working in that town were students using prostitution as a way of paying their way through university. It is probable that comparable figures could be gathered for most of our university towns.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 07:05 PM

sometimes humor can 'clarify' issues. Many of us have heard the old joke about a bar, where a big Texan with a leer sidles up to a girl and says,
"Hey, honey...you are one sweet thang! I'd sure like to 'get to know you' better. Would you be willing to spend the night with me for.....say...$10,000?"

She looks him up & down...startled...but after a minute she answers, "Ummm...yes, I just might be willing."

The Texan, nods, takes a swig of his drink and says..."Well, how about a quickie in the alley for 20 bucks?"

Her face clouds up- she leans back and says in disgust..."Hey, you SOB...what kind of girl do you think I am?"

"Oh," says the Texan, "we've settled that...we're just hagglin' about the price."


the story says a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 02:03 PM

Sorry Terry mate, but there are threads where flippancy is out of order.

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 12:41 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 12:05 PM

Giok,
For many years I was the only woman working in outside sales in the food industry. I can tell you horror stories of the behavior of management in a company known for its wholesome Mom and Apple Pie image.
Sexual harrassment was the norm and was condoned and even encouraged by top management. Drug addicted whores were given a room in the company suite. Strange times. We have come a long way baby.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Legalise Prostitution?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 12:00 PM

"Most jobs, except for Hollywood showbiz and publishing don't have pimps" Yes they do. They're called Management.