Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?

Subject: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Shaneo
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 02:38 PM

I came across this YouTube video of the Dubliners and Luke comes in on the chorus , but is he out of key with the song or is he singing in a higher octave ?

Check it out here

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 04:10 PM

Out of key. He's doing a harmony, but he's off.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 05:48 PM

But Bruce, In his defense he is a banjo player. Happy New Year Pal.

Don Meixner

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 06:31 PM

Jinny-Joe sounds fine to me there.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 06:59 PM

Happy New Year back to you, Don. All the best, buddy.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 07:39 AM

Sounds fine to me.   Good rebel song--even if we may not agree with its endorsement of the IRA. It's an aggressive song--can't expect choirboy harmonies. It's a high harmony--sounds more than an octave higher than the melody, which is also not being sung sweetly. Nor should it.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 08:35 AM

Sounds good to me too, excellent harmony.

eric

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Effsee
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 08:37 AM

Ronnie Drew sing sweetly??!!...LOLOLOLOL!

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 08:51 AM

that was great. Actually I think they were singing in unison, but their voices pitch differently - like different instruments.

anyway thanks for that. cheered me up a lot.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 10:54 AM

I must admit that the first time I heard it I was wondering as well. But I have listened a few times and I must admit I am now not sure that he is off key. I believe it is harmony but not an octave away. I think he is singing the fifth. A G to Ronnie Drew's C so to speak. Not unusual at all but Ronnie's voice is so intricate by it self anything and anyone may sound odd, harmony wise.

When I think of great male voices in Irish music, Luke Kelly's is certainly to the best that ever was in my life time. If there is a close second it was Joe Burke's. There are lots of other great voices to be sure, among them the much maligned Ronnie Drew, but Luke was just beyond them all.

I would like to hear a duet with Ronnie Drew and Tom Waits some time. I think that would a harmony made in heaven. Certainly a back room in heaven but heaven just the same.

Don

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,Marc Bernier
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 11:32 AM

Nothing wrong there I can hear.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 11:36 AM

Interesting reading the opinions. Some notes seem off to me and I don't like the harmony.

this Dubliners clip is much more to my liking.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 11:46 AM

Luke's harmony sounded fine to me. Great video - thanks for posting it!

Happy New Year to all Mudcatters :-)

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 12:03 PM

Too right Jon. Imagine the odds of a banjo like Barney's and voice like Luke's in the same band.

Don

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Effsee
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM

"I haven't got a good voice but I'm a great singer"...Ronnie Drew.
I'd settle for that.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 02:31 PM

enjoyable, thanks.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 05:23 PM

Yep Don. Some outstanding talent there!

Glad you posted that btw. Re-reading my post and with the link, I thought (not by you - we've been through the Dubliners before...) it might have been taken that I don't care for the singing of LK and/or RD rather than just not caring for that particular harmony.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,the twangman
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 06:16 PM

it sounds fine to me pitch wise. it's just a bit unusual hearing luke doing harmony to ronnie's lead. there is very little recorded evidence of them doing that, although they often had to sing an octave apart to get the same key.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Big Phil
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 08:54 PM

Sounds good to me.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 09:00 PM

definitely not out of tune, at any point in the song.

he is singing high harmony, a fifth above Ronny Drew, and there are no discords that I can hear.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 09:11 PM

great clip there from Guest Jon,Date: 01 Jan 07 - 11:36 AM

Barney McKenna in full flow.

tremendous stuff.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 09:44 PM

Sounded fine to me too.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 01:49 AM

Watch the banjo video, Barney is awsome.

eric

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,fiosrach
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 11:13 AM

for those of us who don't hear the video, what song was he singing (in tune/key or out)?

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 02:03 PM

Off To Dublin In The Green

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Shaneo
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 03:21 PM

Well it sounded terribly to me , his voice was way too high to be in harmony with Ronnie , maybe he was drunk , it wasn't unknown at the time for the Dubliners to go on benders for days on end.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:52 PM

Who cares!! weren't the lads fuckin' glorious!!

It's the Scots next!!....Ake

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ? Barney video
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM

Thanks for the link to that great Barney McKenna video - he was the inspiration that got me started on banjo myself many years ago.

One thing that interested me: unless I'm mistaken, Barney didn't seem to use the little finger on his left hand at all, which surprised me (or did he, and I missed it?)

I do use my little finger, although not as much as I think I should do - but after seeing Barney in that video I wonder if it matters?

Any comments from banjoists? Should you use the little finger, and if not, why not?

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:11 PM

I suppose there is the what works for you factor and I wish I could play like Barney...

As far as I understand it there are 2 common fingerings for playing this stuff on the tenor banjo.

I use my little finger for the 7th fret and sometimes the 6th. (Fiddle/mandolin fingering I think).

Others may bring the little finger into play for the 5th fret and perhaps change position for the 7th.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 09:08 PM

Harmony mostly in tune, lead vocals often a bit suspect in pitch. Timing very curious - try tapping your foot first to the lead vocals, and then to the banjo: not together.

But it's easier to criticise than to do!

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 12:25 AM

Naw! That was perfect.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 06:41 AM

sounds good to me, but mind you I can't sing in harmony anyway

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Scrump
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 10:49 AM

Re. Barney's fingering (GUEST, Jon)

Yes, I tend to use the little finger when I go outside the first 5 frets, but it does depend on the tune. I noticed Barney seemed to slide his fingers up now and again, rather than use his little finger. I often do this, but I always felt it was sort of cheating - until now! :-)

Although I've heard Barney playing many times on record, I've never had the chance to see his fingering up close before, so this was very interesting to me.

As you say, it's what works that counts - I just wondered what other players do.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: breezy
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 03:06 PM

Harmony was more like a counter melody, but it was fine, and well within range.

so it was you Peace and shame on Shaneo

What - brilliant as he is -jars is Barney trying to speed it up all the time - cos all he can hear is banjo - but Ronnie was oblivious and remained as steady as a rock, maybe a shade too loud with the whistle but thats the rawness fo yus all.

dont dey look young!

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 04:26 PM

Following on with a few clicks will get you to Paddy Reilly singing Dirty old town, with the Dubliners.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 04:36 PM

Sorry that is by using Shaneo`s clicky.

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 08:31 PM

I'd be surprised if they'd been drinking; both voices are crystal clear, with beautiful diction and in perfect key. Isn't Luke Kelly singing counterpoint rather than harmony?

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Effsee
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 09:34 PM

JTT, Oid just been wondering along those lines meself!!

Subject: RE: Is Luke Kelly Out Of Key Here ?
From: Seaking
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:53 AM

I don't think it's a particularly good harmony and the sound mix is bad which doesn't help as the harmony is too loud

LK and JD's voices worked most effectively together when Luke Kelly sang the melody and Ronnie Drew sang the chorus an octave below.

Great video nonetheless for an old Dubliner's fan and I'm enjoying looking at some of the others from the links. I always liked the original line up better than some of the later combinations so this one is a rare gem.

Chris