Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM

Subject: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 09:44 PM

Dear Friends in Folk,

Please pardon my not using the "bc" function on this mailing... But after you read this, you may feel the need to contact one other.

This afternoon I heard the sad news that Mary Cliff has been asked to collect her things and leave WETA FM Radio this Friday, and that this Saturday night will be the last broadcast of her show, "Traditions." As the WETA FM website describes it, "Traditions, [Mary's] four-hour Saturday night folk music program, is known for its breadth: a mix of traditional, revival, singer-songwriter, ethnic, world and kitchen music, with a strong emphasis on artists and performances in the greater Washington area." It is notable that Traditions is Washington D.C.'s longest-running radio show devoted to folk music. The Institute of Musical Traditions celebrated the show's 30th anniversary with a special concert in January of 2004.

I called Mary and she verified the bad news, reading me excerpts of the official dismissal letter that began, "After careful consideration*" She is shocked, but taking it rather well, considering how sudden this is. She told me that only last week, she was assured that the station would keep airing "Traditions" until she retired. She is trying to remain hopeful, and says she is keeping her ear to the ground for other stations that might pick up her show (and Prairie Home Companion, which is also homeless!).
Word is spreading like wildfire on the internet. Washingtonpost.com already has an article in today's Metro section entitled "WETA to Resume Classical Music Broadcast: Move Comes as WGMS Changes Programming." Print media will not be far behind*Mary says she has already talked to columnist Mark Fisher of the Post's Metro section, as well as someone from Washington CityPaper.

This is a terrible day for the folk community -- for folk music fans; for folk musicians who depend on Mary to help fill the venues where they make their livings as performers; for the venues that book folk and traditional music; for small indie labels that publish this music; and for all who love the thriving Washington, D.C. folk music scene that Mary has nurtured all these years.

I'm sure that as word spreads, there will be organized protests with strategies that encourage us to pull together in a certain direction. Until then, we can express our thoughts about the dismissal of Mary Cliff and the loss of the "Traditions" show by phone or email to WETA's Director of Audience Services, Sheryl Lahti. (Do remember, though, that Sheryl had nothing to do with this decision).

Sheryl Lahti's email address is: [e-mail]

The telephone number for WETA Audience Services is [phone]. Someone will answer between 9 am and 5 pm Monday through Friday, and can transfer your call to Sheryl.   

To leave a message after hours, wait until the pre-recorded message finishes, and you hear the beep. Make sure to spell your name, and leave your daytime phone number. Mary says that they will tally and catalog the comments they receive; the recording says they will make an effort to respond.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of this bad news, but I wanted you to know as soon as I did.

With appreciation for Mary Cliff and all they years we've enjoyed Traditions,



This e-mail was sent to me by a folkie friend in the DC area.   It would be very good if all folkies in the DC area--in fact anybody who's ever heard Mary's show--would register their views with WETA. I've already done so.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:01 PM

Ron,

I sent you a copy of the e-mail I just sent to Sheryl Lahti at

[e-mail]

I hope folks who love folk get on this one. Take ya five minutes and like chicken soup, it can't hurt.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:04 PM

BTW, let's do our best to keep this thread above the line, OK?

---

It's certainly an "above the line" topic.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:10 PM

Thanks, Peace. I was just passing the bad news on--as it was passed to me. I have no idea if anything can be done to stop this, but it's worth a try.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:18 PM

You betcha it's worth a try. It's one thing to be beaten; it's a whole other thing to go without a fight.

Mary has helped many musicians, writers and singers with her show to say nothing of helping keep the music alive for all of us. She more than deserves our support.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:34 PM

I am sad for Mary, who has contributed hugely to the folk community in the DC area. I am sad that WETA will apparently carry no more folk music. I began listening in the late 70s, when Traditions was on twice a week -- Weds. afternoon and Saturday night, I think it was.

But -- and I say this with relucance -- her program long ago lost me as a regular listener.

Once, the service she provided by reading long lists of "who's wheres" was vital.Now, in the internet age, it is a waste of bandwidth. I long for a folk music show that plays music, doesn't talk about it.

I appreciate Mary's decades of dedication to our community. I think it's a travesty that WETA has abandoned the folk music community. But I won't miss Traditions, since I rarely listened to it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:33 AM

I am saddened to hear that Mary is not going to be on the air.

I suspect that her "who's where" will be missed. The information may be on the Internet, but not everyone uses the internet, and Mary's show was a central respository. I worked actively with the Folkal Point, a small once a week folk club in Columbia, Maryland. When WAMU dropped Lee Dempseys lunchtime folk program, it was felt in attendance at the club. I am sure the small, volunteer operated clubs will feel Mary's absence.

Mary also did much to promote local artists as well. They will also feel the effects. If you heard "Joe Doe" on her show, you might be more likely to show up at the next club hosting "Joe Doe". If you have never heard of "Joe Doe" and he shows up on the club's website for next week, are you going to want to go hear him?

When you love something it is difficult to see it harmed and weakened. That is the source of my sorrow. Washington, D.C. once had a vibrant folk scene. It's shine has diminished over the years and it will be dimmer still with Mary's absence.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Skivee
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:54 AM

Mary was the last on-air source of information about folk music in DC and a great way to hear the new stuff on the horizon.
With her dismissal it's likely that many of the folk venues in DC will lose enough patrons to close.
This is action is unjust for a woman who worked so hard for WETA and it's listeners for decades.
The experience that we had with the Lee Michael Dempsey/ WAMU dismissal leads me to think that WETA will also not give a hoot about the reaction of Mary's loyal listeners and friends. They probably factored in all the letters we could write and the money we would not sent before they decided to act.
IMHO Public Broadcasting is pissing away the reason it was founded.
I actually like that the self important talk radio shows will be going and thatclassical music is returning. But I suspect that it will have a heavy scent of WGMS on it.
As Beethovan might say,"Dieses Kampf zwischen unterschiedlich Musik Stile ist unwürdig und sollte nicht bekommen geschah."
Mary deserves better treatment.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:57 AM

It is worth it to e-mail them.

Sheryl Lahti at

[e-mail]

Note that she was not responsible for the termination.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:00 AM

The e-mail I sent yesterday:

'Regarding Mary Cliff's "Traditions":

Dear Sheryl Lahti,

It is with great sadness that I learn the show will be cancelled. Certainly a show that has been broadcast for over 30 years deserves better treatment than this. I realize you are not responsible for the show being cancelled, but I would guess you have some input with those who are. It is a devastating blow to folk music and a slap in the face to Mary. Please pass on to your management that there is a fellow living in Alberta who thinks it is just not right.'

(With that I included my name and address.)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:28 AM

As a friend of Mary's, I am deeply saddened by this development. I've spent many hours at festivals and conferences and have seen how committed Mary is to this music. Washington does not realize how good of a friend they have in Mary. All the wonderful things said about her really are just the tip of the iceberg. This is an enormous loss to radio and folk music.

One thing to keep in mind, when WETA dropped classical music there was an uproar. Classical fans are just as vocal as folk fans, perhaps even more so. They are probably represented in greater numbers, which is what radio stations seem to be looking at these days. Numbers. The days when public radio offered diverse offerings that served the various consituents seems to be dead.   A few years ago, WFUV dropped a long running, and very successful, polka program because the show no longer fit their image.    Radio stations are becoming more dependent on grant money and less dependent on actual listener dollars.

The notes above will help, but I strongly suggest that copies go to whoever is underwriting WETA programs. THOSE are the people who will make the difference, not some empty suit who makes decision by commitee.

We do have to face the fact that we live in a different age and tastes are not the same as they were 34 years ago when Mary started the show. IF enough people can raise a stink with the RIGHT people, Mary will return to the airwaves. From what I heard when I was able to listen to Mary, she had a good mix. She honored the traditions but also explored new trends. That makes for good radio.

This isn't Mary's obit.   She is a fighter and I will bet her voice and the music that she plays will return.   We need more people like Mary Cliff.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: jeffp
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:29 AM

WETA is switching to all-classical to step into the gap left by WGMS, which is switching from classical to rock. WGMS, a commercial station, is actually working with WETA to facilitate the transition. This is according to an article in today's Washington Post. This is actually not unexpected if you have been following the machinations of David Snyder, the owner of the Washington Redskins football team, as he has been attempting to expand his local sports radio network. He made a lucrative offer for WGMS, which sparked a great deal of controversy among classical radio fans.

Maybe there will be room found at WAMU for Mary. It would be nice to see that happen.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Nancy King
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:52 AM

Thanks for the heads up on this. I'll send off an email pronto. Mary has served the folk music scene in this area well for many years, and this is really a shocking development. In addition to her wide knowledge and eclectic approach to the genre, Mary has a wonderful radio voice that will be greatly missed.

Just for the record, the owner of the Redskins is DAN Snyder, not David.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:03 AM

WAMU at least kept Lee Michael Dempsey on the payroll..."pack up & leave by Friday" is one hell of a good-bye after 35 years! Especially since she was/is knowlegable and perfectly capable of announcing and shepherding CLASSICAL music programming!

It is obvious by the tone of it all that they consider the decision final, and they make mo mention of her OR her program on the website...not even a 'regretfully'.

I never expected they would 'replace' the program when Mary retired, but this is tacky business.

I do hope Mary finds a niche to continue the insight, taste and support she has provided to the community for all these years.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:15 AM

Unbelievable!

I was listening to WETA on Sunday, but didn't fully grasp the implications of switching to all clasical.

I am a subscriber and will not be renewing.

JAB

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: jeffp
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:23 AM

Oops! Of course it's Dan. Sorry about that. The other facts stand.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:25 AM

GutBucketeer (JAB), ya gotta let them know that, buddy.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:38 AM

Didn't WETA cut its classical content and get rid of its classical library less than two years ago? What a show of committment to the format.

Here is what I sent Ms. Lahti.

I have heard that the recent format change to classical music includes the cancellation of Saturday Night's Traditions, hosted by Mary Cliff and the weekly airing of Prairie Home Companion. Classical music is important and needs a home in the DC area. However, I am confused since these shows have many aspects in common with classical music in maintaining history and tradition of music in general. They are unique, represent a fraction of your overall programming time, and have loyal fan bases. If you are going to cut anything please cut the duplicative an parallel broadcasting of the NPR shows that are aired at exactly the same time as WAMU.



As a contributor to WETA I am deeply saddened by this decision and if it remains in effect will not be contributing to your station in the future.



Jim Bunch

Silver Spring, MD

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:46 AM

Good one, Jim. It may not help, but for sure NOT sending an e-mail won't help.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:50 AM

WFMU might be another shop she could try. Free-form-- DJs can send their show in on CD.

~S~

Subject: WETA CANCELS TRADITIONS FOLK RADIO SHOW
From: Fortunato
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:20 PM

WETA in Washington DC has canceled Traditions, Mary Cliff's folk radio show of over 30 years running. I have written to WETA at http://www.weta.org/contact.php
"WETA,
Surely this is not correct. As a DC native, a member and contributor to WETA for MANY YEARS, AND A DEDICATED LISTENER to Traditions, I urge you to rethink this tragic mistake.
    Mary Cliff and her weekly show are an intrinsic thread of musical continuity in our city and region. Her show supports the fabric of folk and roots music in our area. AND THERE IS NO OTHER, NO SUBSTITUTE!
    DC area Folk music dies here, today if you go through with this. Literally. Mary's show is the underpinning of all the folk and traditional music and dance in this region. It is the main artery of communication for the Folklore Society of Greater Washington, and has been for over thirty years. The Washington Folk Festival depends on the communication venue that Mary's show provides.
    The folk and roots performers who travel to the DC area depend on her show to communicate their concerts.
    Traditions is a critical part of the community and social fabric. Cancelling her show will do irreparable harm to the community.

I respectfully request a public meeting and a dialogue on this matter.

Chance Shiver

If you agree with my response please contact WETA at the URL http://www.weta.org/contact.php


I was so angry I forgot to search for other threads and started a new one. I'll copy my email here, and if Joe Offer combines the two that'll be fine.

---

Duplicate deleted.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:52 PM

I wonder if any collusion laws were violated in the agreements between the private sector Bonneville conglomorate and WETA? With the change it seems that All local content that promotes local artists, venues, what's happening in the DC area, etc. has disappeared. Isn't this what a public broadcast station is supposed to be about? It certainly doesn't seem to be in the public interest.

Is their anything that the FCC or license renewal review can do?

JAB

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM "Traditions"
From: jeffp
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 01:11 PM

Can't see any problems that the FCC would be interested in. WGMS is giving their call letters and 18,000 CDs to WETA. The Hagerstown booster station, now called WETH, will become WGMS. There will be cross-promotion for 6 months or so. No money is changing hands.

I don't see what sort of "collusion" you could be talking about, Jim. It's not like a realtor steering a customer to a lender. It's a radio station changing formats and giving away their inventory to a public station. Taking care of the listeners.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 01:14 PM

Oh, the classical fans will be VERY happy! They always hated the Sat. evening 'interruption' of their stuff for that silly 'folk program'.....and they DO spend money.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: GUEST,Tidewater Musician
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 01:57 PM

It would be wonderful if, given the size of the audience in the Washington metro area, there could be two public radio stations, just as we have in the Hampton Roads area, with much success. One is focused on classical music, while the other broadcasts folk, jazz, news programs, and other programs like Fresh Air, This American Life, etc. As a former D.C. area resident, I am so sad to learn that folk is disappearing from the D.C. airwaves. I hope all of these efforts to sway the underwriters and others will make a differene.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 02:01 PM

How many folks have sent e-mails so far?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 02:20 PM

The e-mails are important, but don't put all your hope in them.

The underwriters of WETA program are the ones to reach.   

Trust me, station management is prepared for a deluge of e-mails from listeners, and I am sure they have calculated how much it would cost them if they had to return the donor dollars.

It is less likely that they have prepared themselves from organized boycotts of the underwriters. As soon as the first underwriter cancels their support, changes will be made. Loosing that support will scare the hell out of them. That suppport is how they base their programming, not on the number of listeners to specific shows.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 02:48 PM

OK. Is there anyone in the show's area who could give us the names of the underwriters? Then we could send e-mails to where they will do the most good.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 02:52 PM

I also noticed that the WETA website (www.weta.org)has a schedule of board meetings and a long list of trustees. Those are certainly target areas for protests.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: jeffp
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 03:00 PM

There is another public radio station in Washington - WAMU. They run a mix of programming: local affairs, bluegrass, old radio shows, and on Sundays at 5 - Thistle and Shamrock, my personal favorite.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Elettra
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 03:09 PM

Our local PBS station elected to drop Thistle and Shamrock in favor of classical programming. Sure, I can still listen online, but I live in an area where Top 40 and oldies are all you get on local radio, and Thistle was the one breath of radio fresh air I got each week. Complaints to the station did no good but made me feel better! Fight on for Mary, this is wrong.
E.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Elettra
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 03:11 PM

Oops, meant to say NPR, not PBS.
E.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 03:16 PM

Thistle and Shamrock is an NPR show that costs individual stations a lot of money to carry. Prairie Home Companion is the same way and it is probably the most expensive show offered on public radio - but it can pay for itself. While both shows are expensive, they usually draw a great deal of support for the station - both from undewriters who know what they are backing and from pledge drives.

Mary's show was produced by WETA and Mary was an employee at the station, who had other functions besides this show.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:44 PM

This is what I sent them:

Hello,
When I first heard the news that WETA was reinstating classical music, I was ecstatic! Then I found out that part of the package was the cancellation of the Mary Cliff show and her dismissal. Then my ecstacy turned to rage.

How raw can someone be! Her show is the last folk music show in the DC metro area, and she has been on the air for 30 some years. She is an essential part of the folk community, and she was close to retirement, anyway. I cannot think of a worse disservice to the community or to an employee than what you did.

Furthermore, I must protest the cancellation of Prairie Home Companion, Cartalk,and Sunday Morning Edition.

From your decision-making process, I can only conclude that the "public" in public radio is just a ruse, and that you expect us to accept whatever programming whim crosses your mind without so much as a whimper.

I am here to tell you that the audience you have dissed is a MAJOR contribution source, and that we will not take this lying down. And if you think the folk community should be dismissed so casually, just look at what shows PBS runs when THEY are asking for money. One of their big producers is the long show featuring all the folk music icons that we know and love. Ask them if they bring in the bacon, if
you think we don't matter!

I would like to reward you for reinstating classical music. But I cannot, since you also cancelled Traditions, and of course, the other three shows, too. No donations from me, and I will spread the word as far and wide as I can with my keyboard and computer. Phooey on you for making these decisions without input from your funders!

Please respond to this email with a non-form letter. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Saul Goldberg

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:50 PM

Well, some good news, at least. I just heard that WAMU will carry Prairie Home Companion.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:51 PM

Good for you, Saul. BTW, I have had no response to my e-mail, but I will post it if and when.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:03 PM

Would you kind people who are trying to get the decision reversed please keep the thread alive? I have to be gone for a while and so won't be able to. I think Mary deserves better from her employer, and the more support she gets the better, IMO. Thanks, y'all.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:04 PM

I have not had a chance to speak directly with Mary, and I do not know what her plans are - but I just checked WAMU's website after reading Sauls note and found this message -

"A Message to Our Listeners
As you might imagine, we're receiving lots of questions right now from many of you -- public radio listeners who are wondering what WAMU 88.5 will be changing, if anything, in light of current changes in the Washington, D.C., area radio landscape.

I'm happy to be able to answer one question right now: Starting Saturday, Jan. 27, we'll begin airing A Prairie Home Companion from 6-8 p.m. Hot Jazz Saturday Night will follow from 8-11 p.m.

I'm hoping to have answers to all your questions soon -- questions about different shows that you would like us to carry. We're already evaluating our recent programming changes, because the format changes in our area obviously provide some additional opportunities and options for our station. We'll release any information about additional changes to our own schedule when we have them.

I wish our colleagues at WETA-FM great success with their return to classical music. WAMU 88.5's focus will not change -- to be the public radio listener's source for news and information in the Washington, D.C., metro area, and to showcase the best of traditional American music.

Sincerely,
Caryn G. Mathes
WAMU 88.5 General Manager"


Perhaps another lobbying effort should be directed at WAMU to pick up Mary??

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:51 PM

Both public and private radio stations operate over the public airwaves and are granted the rights to use the public airwaves (a scarce resource) in return for providing something back to the community. I believe this is especially true of public not-for-profit stations. They operate within the bounds of their stated mission and have either explicit or implicit agreements to serve their listeners. WETA broke their agreement with their classical audience two years ago, when they abandoned the format. This is an indication of their "committment" to their public and their requirement to serve.

Anytime a private for profit corporation goes out of its way conduct conversations behind the scenes with a public entity it is suspect. Bonneville Corporation showed its colors and committment to its Classical listeners already by switching WGMS from a strong signal to a weaker signal location (104.?) on the dial, and now is eliminating classical programming entirely. Clearly Bonneville gained by shedding its classical audience at virtually no cost in order to seek what it thinks will be more profitable markets. They hoped to avoid a backlash by initiating their negotiations with WETA.

I don't know what the exact laws and requirements are, but I do know each station has to live up to their stated committments, and that these are periodically reviewed by the FCC. IMHO there is cause for concern because local programming and community content has now been sigficantly reduced, and unique "Traditions" have been cancelled through smoke filled back room negotiations.

JAB

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:25 PM

Gutbucketeer, what you described certainly sounds ominious and I do not want to sound like like I am defending the idiots that run WETA, but what you described is certainly not illegal or against any FCC or CPB rules.

One item that you have not included is that the FCC deregulation changed many of the rules.   The deregulation abolished the Fairness Doctrine rules, stations no longer required to present public affairs programs, etc.   It is now much harder to challenge a radio stations license - especially when they make a case that classic music has a larger audience that needs to be served.

The FCC and CPB do not tell stations how operate or what kind of programs to present. I could make a case that polka music is not being served and demand a public station broadcast several hours a week - but they can tell me to go fly a kite.

While us "folkies" see the loss of Mary's show as a loss, none of us can tell a radio station how to operate. What we can do is what has been suggested - write letters to not only the management (who are excpecting it and can deal with volumes of hate mail) but more importantly to the underwriters and I would also suggest the board of trustees. WETA has public meetings. Groups of folkies should show up as a group and make your voice heard. The folk music community of Washington DC should have a MANDATORY committment to help Mary after everything she has done for them.   Show up to the public meeting and raise some hell.

As for fighting this on a legal issue, you do not have a case. You can only hit them in the pocketbook to have a slim chance of making it work.   Go for it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: lamarca
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:37 PM

I can't help but wonder if this action is, in part, because of Mary's years of dedicated activity as Shop Steward for the union employees at WETA. Dismissing her before she can retire and collect whatever pension she has coming seems like a possibly actionable offense - but I'm not a lawyer...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:09 PM

DARN! Ain't deregulation wonderful

Ron, We will do what we can.

JAB

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,Ref
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:54 PM

Not being from the area, I'm unsure. Is WETA a public station? If they are, they must have a board. You should demand to be heard and make a major effort to get every folk supporter out for it. We had a situation like this in NH about fifteen years ago. A consultant had sold the board on the advisability of going all classical (COINCIDENTALLY (?), the consultant had a friend selling an all classical package!) The NH folk (and other programming) community demanded and got a hearing that brought in 250+ angry subscribers on a Sunday night. After getting their ears filled with "No more of my money nor that of anyone else I can persuade", the board wised up and reconsidered. We're now getting a mix of news, entertainment, and music (mostly folk and jazz.) It ain't perfect, but it works. Don't give up!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:37 PM

WETA is a "public station"

Community Advisory Council
Meetings of the advisory council are also open to the public. The council will meet on Friday, February 2 from 12 p.m. until 2 p.m. in room 625. For more information, please call 703-998-2761.

2007 WETA BOARD MEETINGS
Meetings of the WETA Board of Trustees and its Committees are open to the general public* and held 4:00 – 6:00 p.m. at WETA's administrative offices, 2775 South Quincy Street, Arlington, Virginia 22206. For more information, contact the Board's Assistant Secretary, Karen White at 703-998-2820 or by e-mail at [e-mail].

Previous meetings
The Executive Committee of the WETA Board of Trustees held a closed executive session by telephone on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 to discuss proprietary and confidential matters.

The WETA Board of Trustees held a closed executive session by telephone on Thursday, December 14, 2006 to discuss proprietary and confidential matters.

The meeting of the Development & Marketing Committee on Thursday, December 14, 2006 was cancelled.

Upcoming meetings

Monday, February 26
Monday, May 21


STAFF AND BOARD

Executive Staff
Sharon Percy Rockefeller
President and Chief Executive Officer

Joseph B. Bruns
Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer

Dalton Delan
Executive Vice President and Chief Programming Officer

Polly Povejsil Heath
Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer


WETA's Board of Trustees
Leslee "Honey" Alexander
Paul Anthony
Cynthia Baker
Megan Beyer
Karna Small Bodman
M. Diane Bodman
K. David Boyer Jr.
Richard W. Carlson
Lavern Jackson Chatman
J. Marshall Coleman
Lisa Claire Dwoskin
Lauren Peterson Fellows
Ann B. Friedman
John W. Hechinger Jr., Chairman
J. Roderick Heller III, Trustee Emeritus
Allan R. Hoffman
Ann Dibble Jordan
Max M. Kampelman, Trustee Emeritus
Bobbie Greene Kilberg
Jonathan J. Ledecky
Nancy O. Low
David O. Maxwell, Trustee Emeritus
Daniel K. Mayers, Trustee Emeritus
Mara Mayor
John A. McAdams
W. Scott McGeary
Sally L. Merten
Susan Pearce
Ian K. Portnoy
Edward Hart Rice
Sharon Percy Rockefeller, ex officio
Alison K. Russell
David E. Shiffrin
Loren Allan Smith, ex officio
Donald M. Spero
Catherine Ann Stevens
Barbara D. Tannenbaum
Cynthia Steele Vance
Stephen A. Weiswasser
Anne Wexler, Trustee Emeritus

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:17 AM

Thansk, Gut. Now we know who to send our missives to. I will send mine to each and every one on the list.

Saul

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:18 AM

Just to clarify, not all public stations hold open meetings. The fact that WETA does is a very good sign. I would urge everyone in the area to attend and also to find e-mail or snail mail addresses for each of the trustees.   More important, I cannot overemphasis how important it is to get to the underwriters.   By making your voices heard to this group will give you a much better chance. Writing to the management of the station will help you get your anger off your chest, but you will be more effective by reaching the others.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:40 AM

OK, Ron. Who ARE the underwriters?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:56 AM

I don't know - I am not in the DC area and cannot hear the station on a regular basis.

Someone will need to find that out from WETA - either by listening or perhaps in the website.

Also, people who are not in the listening area should realize that their e-mails are not really going to help.   While is shows support for folk music, it will actually make a case that the DC area is not supporting the program and "outside help" is responsible for the complaints. Makes for an easy dismissal.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,hoot&fidget
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:58 PM

Where in the world can we get the e-mail addresses of the WETA's Board of Trustees and executive staff?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:03 PM

http://www.weta.org/contact.php

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,hoot&fidget
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:04 PM

<<<>>>

Yo, lamarca...

I was wondering if anyone else was going to connect the dots.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: GUEST,bill
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 10:36 PM

Saul and Ron have hit on it, We can protest and fight WETA, which will not change their minds and use a lot of our energy to little result, or we can campaign with WAMU. I went to school with Lee, and the departure of his show was difficult, but as I think Saul said, they still have him on the payroll. The shows they have on Sunday afternoon are high quality traditional music shows (I won't even consider the differences some of us have between bluegrass and old time, this is not the time for that discussion). Traditions fits their mold perfectly.

I've already put my 2 cents in with their management. If all of you do to we have a chance.

go to www.wamu.org and chose the Contacts tab.

Bill J.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:08 PM

A link to the page Guest, bill speaks of.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:40 PM

I actually think there is another option. As some of you know, I have a foot firmly in each camp. At rehearsal of my group last night-- (a large classical group which usually sings in the Kennedy Center)--I canvassed as many as I could during our break--and found that virtually all would be fine with WETA returning to classical music 24 hours a day, 7 days a week---except for Saturday night, which would remain Mary's show. In fact some were strong fans of Mary--and shocked at this treatment. One said she would make a donation to WETA because of the switch back to classical--but would ask that Mary's show remain as is.


I will contact WETA and propose this. After all, it would make 2 groups of people happy--as opposed to infuriating one group. It is potentially a win-win situation--since both groups have in the past been strong financial supporters.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:46 PM

Good thinking, Ron.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:46 PM

And if there is hope to have Mary's show on Saturday night at WAMU, I believe this is misplaced hope. From 7 to 10 on WAMU now is Hot Jazz Saturday Night--with just as ferociously loyal listeners as folkies are. Prairie Home Companion is moving to Saturday night on WAMU, as I recall. And bluegrass/ bluegrass country is on WAMU a good portion of the rest of the weekend--again with very loyal listeners. Mary's show is far better off where it is---if that can be arranged.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: jeffp
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:08 AM

A good article by Marc Fisher in today's Washington Post about Mary. It says that WAMU is considering picking up her show.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:14 AM

I hope she can relocate.

BTW, there is a difference between being fired (usually implies one has done wrong) and having one's show canceled or one's position eliminated. I don't think it help's Mary's career prospects to have word about that she was fired.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:18 AM

Ron Davies, I don't want to be a wet blanket, but don't you think that it is obvious that WETA made a conscious decision? I am sure they considered leaving Saturday night alone - but it wasn't an option for their plans.

Your suggestion is not unique and you won't be the first one to make such a suggestion. Unfortunately, the fact that you canvased a large classical group is not going to make much of a difference.   As dumb of a decision that this is, the management of WETA is not stupid and surely considered their options. Their gameplan was set and you will not be the first one to make a suggestion to them.

You need to take this fight to the next level, and the empty suits in management are not going to budge unless they are told to budge by a higher authority (read - board of trustees, underwriters).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:26 AM

The article referred to above by jeffp:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012402460.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,hoot&fidget
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:54 AM

The current underwriters are at http://tinyurl.com/39hljb

There are 36 of them. I suggest I post them here in case WETA decides to close the page.

Comments?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,hoot&fidget
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:29 AM

Let us assume for a moment that we get the list of underwriters. In an ideal world, it would be nice to have all the e-mail to an underwriter go to one person or entity in the case of customer services. But, who do we target the e-mail to? Customer Service, CEO, CFO, Mgr of Foundation Relations? There's quite a variance in the corporate hierarchies.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,hoot&fidget
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:32 AM

When I go to http://www.weta.org/contact.php all I see is the generic form for WETA. If there's a way to contact the president, I don't see it.

Subject: Broad- versus narrow- cast
From: OtherDave
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:48 AM

WETA switched from classical to news for essentially the same economic reasons that any station changes format: they thought they'd attract an audience that appealed more to sponsors / advertisers / underwriters.

Yeah, I know, public radio doesn't advertise, except for telling you that The XYZ Hour is "sponsored by" the Acme Widget Foundation, "where quality is a slogan." Have you noticed the sponsor intros getting longer and longer?

WGMS, a commercial station, had come in for great criticism from classical-music fans; the format had become CTH&W (Classical Top Hits and Warhorses). They lasted into the 21st century because the classical-music demographic, while skewing old, also skews well-to-do.

Now that WGMS can meet the crying need for another classic-rock station (nearly as dire as the crying need for another all-talk station), WETA will pick up most WGMS listeners because they don't have anywhere else to go... except their own CD collections, MP3 players, or satellite radio.

I saw in the Washington Post that satellite radio specializes in niches or narrowcasts, with a contemporary country station, a traditional, a classic, a progressive... no doubt a left-handed-artist country channel as well. At $13 for a month-to-month subscription, though, it might be worth the price to avoid the endless beg-a-thons.

The reality of public radio, particularly in a large city, is that you're a "member" in the same way that you as an individual shareholder are an "owner" of Microsoft.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:58 PM

Gulp.
The company I work for is one of the underwriters. I'm investigating how they make their decisions on donating $.

JAB

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: GUEST,Mike Licht
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 01:12 PM

Today's Washington Post article by Paul Farhi, "WETA Hears Some Static Over Switch To Classical," offers a chance to comment -- go to

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012402287.html

(free registration required)

Also, if you think WAMU should pick up "Traditions," let the station know at http://www.wamu.org/contact/

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,hoot&fidget
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:26 PM

I've completed the list of underwriters along with e-mail addresses. The tally is 22 out of 35.

Would anyone like them?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:48 PM

Hey, Hoot. Whyontcha post 'em here? Or if not, then PM me with 'em. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,hoot&fidget
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:50 PM

And here's what the Washington City Paper had to say under Staff Blog on the City Desk.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST,hoot&fidget
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:55 PM

You have but to ask...

Here are the current underwriters for WETA from http://tinyurl.com/39hljb

I formatted them so that a vertical bar (|) delineates the various fields. The first field is the corporate name, second is the phone number, third is the web site, etc. Using the vertical bar should make it easier to format this stuff in your favorite spreadsheet, word processor, etc. If there is no e-mail contact, it's because I couldn't find one. Anything with a URL is an e-mail website. I hope the URLs work.

Airbus|703 834-3400|www.airbusnorthamerica.com|90.9 FM Supporter
Americom Government Services|1-609-987-4000|www.ses-americom.com/|90.9 Supporter, TV 26 Supporter| [e-mail]
Arena Stage|202.488.4377|www.arenastage.org|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Booz Allen Hamilton|703.902.4933|www.bah.com|TV 26 Supporter|Diane Merolla at [e-mail]
Cabot Creamery||www.cabotcheese.com|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail] or http://tinyurl.com/32jzfn
Case Design/Remodeling, Inc.|[phone]|www.casedesign.com|90.9 FM Supporter|http://tinyurl.com/375xan
CDW•G|800.581.4239|www.cdwg.com|90.9 Supporter, TV 26 Supporter|[e-mail]
Chevy Chase Bank||www.chevychasebank.com|90.9 FM Supporter|http://tinyurl.com/2bxvfl
Don Beyer Volvo and Land Rover Alexandria|703.237.5000|www.donbeyervolvo.com|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Dow, Lohnes & Albertson|202.776.2000|www.dlalaw.com|90.9 FM Supporter|http://tinyurl.com/26vbeg
Folger Shakespeare Library||www.folger.edu|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Freddie Mac||www.freddiemac.com|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Georgetown University Center for Professional Development|202.687.7000 |www.cpd.georgetown.edu|90.9 Supporter, TV 26 Supporter|
Giant Food of Maryland, Inc.|301.341.4100|www.giantfood.com|90.9 FM Supporter|http://tinyurl.com/22e8nv
Golin/Harris|703.741.7500|www.golinharris.com|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Harness, Dickey & Pierce, P.L.C.|703.668.8000|www.hdp.com|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts|202.467.4600|www.kennedy-center.org|90.9 FM Supporter
Kaiser Permanente of the Mid-Atlantic States||www.kaiserpermanente.org|90.9 FM Supporter
Katten Muchin Rosenman, LLP|202.625.3500|www.kattenlaw.com|90.9 FM Supporter|http://tinyurl.com/2yoffn
Koshland Museum||www.koshlandsciencemuseum.org|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
M&T Bank|800.724.2440|www.mandtbank.com|TV 26 Supporter|http://tinyurl.com/2amtkt
Microsoft Corporation||www.microsoft.com|90.9 Supporter, TV 26 Supporter|Didn't even try.
Mindbank|1-800-MINDBANK|www.mindbank.com|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Mitretek Systems||www.mitretek.org|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Morgan Franklin||www.morgan-franklin.com|90.9 FM Supporter|http://tinyurl.com/2f2ldr
Nixon Peabody LLP|202.585.8000|www.nixonpeabody.com|90.9 FM Supporter|Andrea Goodman, Director of Communications, at 617-345-1381, [e-mail] (maybe?)
Peapod by Giant|800.573.2763|www.giantfood.com/peapod|TV 26 Supporter|See Giant Food of Maryland
Phillips Collection|[phone]|www.phillipscollection.org|90.9 Supporter, TV 26 Supporter|[e-mail]
Syms Corporation|201.902.9100|www.syms.com|TV 26 Supporter|[e-mail]
Washington Ballet|202.467.4600|www.washingtonballet.org|90.9 FM Supporter|Caroline Baldwin, Manager of Foundation Relations, 202.362.3606 x123, [e-mail]
Washington National Opera|202.432.seat|www.ticketmaster.com|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Washington Performing Arts Society||www.wpas.org|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Weschler's Auction House|202.628.1281|www.weschlers.com|TV 26 Supporter|[e-mail]
Williams Mullen||www.williamsmullen.com|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]
Wolf Trap Foundation for the Performing Arts||www.wolf-trap.org|90.9 FM Supporter|[e-mail]

Here is a list of all the email addresses I could find separated from the above list in a format suitable for sticking in the To: line of an email. There are 22 out of a grand total of 35.
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditio
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 03:03 PM

For Ron Olesko,

Hokay, I posted a list of the underwriters for the purpose of carrying this up to the people with the bucks. But, I don't think an e-mail saying, "Please ask WETA to reconsider eliminating Traditions." is going to do much.

I welcome some suggestions.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: GUEST,Wayne Monroe
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 03:37 PM

I used to listen; the best part was the opening with fiddles playing The Maiden's Prayer. Mary is a bit of a slow talker and she never seemed to be organized. She had time to play more music and less time looking for something. Actually, I imagine she has a shot at getting on at WAMU. They broadcast in HD now and Ray Davis is on every afternoon again. I wish they would bring Jerry Gray back with his old program. WAMU has Car Talk and all the news programming; back around September 11, 2001 WAMU and WETA were practically "simulcasting" the PBS news programming. It's good they went back to classical music.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 03:40 PM

I am hestitant to tell people what to write because I don't think a form letter response will do good. I think everyone who chooses to write (and I hope many of you do) should say things along the line of what has been said in this thread.    Asking them to please reconsider their decision is not a bad start.

Here is an outline - put it in your own words and actions:

a. You are unhappy with the decision to eliminate the show. Explain why.

b. You are unhappy with the company/individual for supporting this decision because they are either an underwriter or a member of the board.   

c. Ask them to do whatever they can to reconsider.

d. Let the them know the consequences. Tell them what you are going to withold - donations, you won't support or purchase their product, you won't listen to the radio station, no more sex, you are going to hold you breathe and turn blue, etc.   You can think of your own words and actions!   Let them know you are angry and you are going to back up this protest with action. You are the consumer and you are going to take your business elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Mary Cliff Fired - WETA FM 'Traditions'
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 08:08 PM

Susan (WYSIWYG) makes a good point. Title of this thread should be changed. "Fired" is not the right word. Maybe "dismissed" is better--"fired" suggests possible cause--of which there was none. Maybe no mention of Mary in the title--maybe just " WETA: No More "Traditions" or something like that.

I only started the thread since I received the letter I posted. I thought time was of the essence--so I did it immediately.

I will certainly defer to the wisdom of the group on this.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:08 PM

Hi, Ron - I'm trying Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM, but I'm open to other suggestions. I agree that "fired" is unnecessarily derogatory to Mary, and it may possibly be a bit too inflammatory in tone.
What think y'all?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:38 PM

This is terrible news. Many musicians depended on Mary Cliff to reach new audiences. Somehow this feels like one more nail in the coffin of independent music. And it's a rotten way to treat one of the finest people I know.

I've sent my e-mail - though I'm now out of the area - and I'll be sending on to WAMU, though after what happened to Lee Michael Dempsey, it seems unlikely they'll be much help. Does anyone have the e-mail address at WAMU we should write to?

I suppose it's too much to hope that Mary will get a nice job with XM or Sirius Satellite radio. Not that it would help the DC area - but Mary deserves better.

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:41 PM

Here is the note that Mary posted to the Folk DJ listserv -

"I was just informed that my folk music program TRADITIONS will end this week and that my employment at WETA radio will end after 34 years."

What WETA did to Mary is not a secret. I think "dropped" is a good way to put it.   She was not "fired" due to performance issues but her show was "dropped" because of a programming decision.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 09:55 PM

By the way, I just want to say that everyone who has stepped up and done something about this - finding addresses, sending letters, sending e-mails, spreading the word - all of you deserve a huge round of applause and a big "thank you". I don't think Mary checks this website, but I think she is aware of what everyone has been doing for her, both here and on other websites and lists. The support is important.

It is easy to use Mudcat to blow off steam and complain about things - but seeing people take action is inspiring. It takes time do the rearch and write the notes - but believe me, it helps.   You can make a difference, especially everyone who lives in the DC area.

Keep fighting. Folk music is in danger.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,DVD
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:06 PM

I have another suggestion regardng lobbying to preserve Mary Cliff's show. Why not try contacting WPFW en masse--I already have. This may be a good way to broaden their listener base---maybe even get them some more contributions.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:11 AM

It occurs to me that e-mail, though I did indeed send one, is not the best method of persuasion. They take up no physical space and are gotten rid of with the punch of a key. The best method, I imagine, is a massive letter writing campaign to The Washington Post and other media outlets. Physical letters to WETA are good, as is a flood of phone calls.

One point I made in my letter is that it saddened me to see that in the capital of the nation, current traditional folk musicians could no longer find a radio station to play their music. What is public broadcasting for, if not for this?

Sincerely,
Dan

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:13 AM

Dan, I have to stress this again after reading your post. People are focusing on sending e-mails and letters to the station. That is not enough. Whether it is a piece of paper or an electronic note, the station is expecting these and it will not make a difference.

The difference will come when something is sent to the trustees and underwriters. I can't stress that enough. Management knows their decision was unpopular and they are prepared for that. If you send a note to the program director, do you really think they are going to stop and say - hey, I made a mistake and I am going to bring the show back? NO!   If you reach their superiors and the people who are pumping money into the station, THEY will be the ones asking questions of the people that are working for them.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Mike Licht
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:45 AM

New Post on WETA blog by Chief Operating Officer Joe Bruns:

"We can certainly refund your membership – that has always been our policy. Call our audience services line at 703-998-2724, and they'll take care of your request. If you recently made a philanthropic contribution linked to radio and wish your donation returned, you can call the Leadership Circle at 703-998-2691."

So there you have it.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GoodNightGracie
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:50 AM

I am very sorry to hear about how Mary was treated. I expect that Mary will find a new venue soon. Like Mary LaMarca, I am suspicious that Mary's roll as shop steward has something to do with these events. By the way, if someone is vested in a pension, the participant's accrued benefits cannot legally be reduced or eliminated. That is except in the case of insolvency or bankruptcy whereby the PBGC insurance picks up a very small portion of the benefits that are payable.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 10:46 AM

Further news.

Mary Cliff send an e-mail to friends:

FYI:  I am in discussion with another station at this time, and even SatRad.  I do feel that this big folk community deserves a radio program local to this area.  The last TRADITIONS on WETA will be this Saturday night [January 27].  After that, I'll put updates on my website, www.marycliff.net -- along with updates of the "interminable list" of "who's wheres."  Again, thanks for the incredible support.  

And from the WETA blog page, talking about where their former programs can now be found:

WAMU is adjusting its radio schedule and has confirmed in the press that they are considering adding the folk music show Traditions with Mary Cliff.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:58 PM

Charlie,

You know I stopped donating to WAMU when Lee Michael Dempsey's Show was dropped. At work, I used to take my lunch break in my car, because I couldn't get the show inside the building. Even on a cold day like today I'd be out in my car with the radio and the heater on.

I hope this works out for Mary.

Roger

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: fretless
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:19 PM

WETA responds:

From: Sheryl Lahti
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:16 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients
Subject: Re: Traditions w/Mary Cliff


Dear Friends of Traditions with Mary Cliff,

It is always my preference to respond to every call, e-mail and letter personally. But, this is an exceptional time…

I have heard from so many Traditions fans like you. It's touching. I truly appreciate that you took the time to let me know how you feel. I share your fondness for the show. Often on Saturday nights, I hope I will be some place where I can tune in to Traditions, if only for a short while.

So, I hope you'll forgive me for responding en masse. Please know that I did read your personal message and I am tracking and reporting all of the feedback I receive.

In addition to voicing sadness over the departure of Mary's show, most of you have also praised WETA's decision to return to a classical format. Let me address both matters.

As you know, WETA has a 35-year history in broadcasting classical music. When we made the difficult decision to change to a news and information format two years ago, we did so in a media landscape that included a full-time classical music station, WGMS, where music fans could tune for classical music.

Since 2005, however, a number of dramatic shifts to the local landscape have impacted us greatly. Among those changes were the introduction of another news format station (WTWP – Washington Post Radio) and the possible change of formats on WGMS.

We are very proud of the service we created in the past two years, but amid the new radio landscape in Greater Washington, we determined that adopting a classical music format is the best way for WETA to serve the community. As the exclusive classical music station in this area, WETA can now provide a unique public service. And in order to make the new Classical WETA 90.9 FM successful, we believe it is best to concentrate our resources and energies on the classical music genre alone.

Many listeners celebrate that development. But, we knew that other friends would be let down in the process. Like Traditions, other beloved programs such as A Prairie Home Companion and Car Talk have also departed. It reflects the very nature of broadcasting: what pleases one listener may disappoint another. We do not say goodbye to Traditions without some grief – we are fans, too. But, no matter how tough they might be, we have a responsibility to make decisions that we feel are in the station's best interest. By the way, Prairie Home has been picked up by WAMU 88.5, and can be heard there beginning Saturday, January 27, at 6 p.m.; WAMU is reportedly considering adding Traditions; and many of the NPR programs formerly heard on WETA are already on WAMU.

I respect your views and appreciate your long-time support and friendship. Thanks for writing.

Sincerely,


Sheryl Lahti
Executive Director
Membership and Audience Support
WETA

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: fretless
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:26 PM

By the way, just to make it clear, all I was doing in the preceding message was passing along the mass reply from WETA. I'll miss the music on Mary's show, even if I won't miss the seemingly endles announcements.

It doesn't seem likely that the station will take the show back. WAMU may be our only hope in that regard, but I suspect that's unlikely, too.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:17 PM

I just received the same e-mail. The gist seems to be, "You can campaign all you want, but we're not listening." What a disappointing response.

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:26 PM

"You can campaign all you want, but we're not listening." What a disappointing response."

Not surprised. That is why I keep stressing the importance of letting the board of trustees and the underwriters know. It still might not be enough, but your message will certainly ring louder.

Subject: What A Lame Action For A "Public Radio" Station
From: GUEST,Lee Diamond
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 02:22 AM

WETA is full of lame excuses. Traditions is a unique program. It is not like Car Talk or any other program broadcast in this area.

I'd like to see something creative done in terms of internet radio or whatever it is that the progressives like The Nation Magazine are doing to make audio available on the web.

I agree with the comments on all the announcements. A station in Philly does them all at one time. That is a lot better . Then people who want to hear it know when to tune in.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 07:27 AM

I've emailed both WAMU and WETA. I told WAMU that I would double my contribution if it picked up Mary Cliff. I will now contact the underwriters and trustees you guys have provided. Mary deserves the best we can do for her because she has always done the best she could do for us. I owe her years of pleasure and consider it a debt of honor.

A very effective Gaelic chant that keeps off ran has come down in my family for hundreds of years. Maybe I can redirect that chant to fit present circumstances...

Laughing,

Susan Meehan

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:42 AM

Dear Trustees and Staff of WETA:

I'm a DC-area native and longtime listener and supporter of "Traditions". Please reverse your decision to cancel "Traditions." Your show's influence and impact on our community is huge and unique. "Traditions" promotes and validates roots music in the Washington area by showcasing the acoustic artists who live here and who come to perform here.

No other program on WETA accomplishes this. No other program on our local airwaves accomplishes this.

"Traditions" has an impact on hundreds of artists, music venues, nonprofit organizations dedicated to roots music, and of course the thousands of citizens who love traditional music and dance.

You should be praised for offering this vital cultural link for 30 years. You fit "Traditions" into your classical schedule for all these years; it seems perfectly reasonable that you would continue to achieve that balance now.

I know that the trustees of WETA, like all nonprofit trustees, seek "leverage" in their activities. The opportunity to support an entire world of culture in our region with four hours of programming each week seems like terrific leverage of the money you steward.

Please keep "Traditions" on your schedule.

Respectfully,

Andy Carroll
Washington, DC

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 08:24 PM

Mary's last program is on the air right now...8:25 ET...until 1AM.

She can be emailed at her website.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Ted Sterne, Olney
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:07 PM

Mary Cliff and "Traditions" have been the light of my radio life for years. As well as emailing WETA 90.9 FM I have also emailed WAMU 88.5 FM with a plea to take on "Traditions" in any time slot that would work. I am listening to her "last" (I hope not!) show on WETA as I type.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Mike Licht
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:23 PM

From the WETA-FM website on Saturday:

We've long been enriched by Mary Cliff's knowledge, appreciation of music, and generous spirit, and offer appreciation for her many years at WETA and within the community.

Mary Cliff grew up in Arlington and has been active in the Washington-area music community since high school. She is known and appreciated for her long-running Saturday night folk music program Traditions. Both personally and professionally, Mary has been a steadfast cheerleader for the Washington area's music scene and its artists, especially those of the folk community.

Please join us in sending your best wishes and kind regards directly to Mary Cliff at the following e-mail address: [e-mail]
---------------

So that's that for WETA.

The WAMU fund raising drive is Feb 3-10. Online forms for "membership" and "donate any amount" have a "comments" box. Why not use that box to tell WAMU "start airing "Traditions." Don't raise other issues - that confuses them. Don't tell them you like some of their other shows -- that encourages complacency.

We've all had issues with WAMU in the past. The people who ran the station then are gone. Here is a chance for the new management to prove they care about our community's culture.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:51 PM

To the tidewater musician: those two radio stations are really just WHRO split into two...they work in concert. WETA and WAMU are totally different entities, admittedly within the same area of public radio.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Ferrara
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 10:06 PM

Mary's final program on WETA is on now and it's pretty powerful. She started with Jonathon Eberhart, "Life's Trolley Ride," and is taking us on a tour through time in many ways. My oh my. Good stuff.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Dan L.
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 10:44 PM

Not only underwriters, but I'd think also and perhaps especially
that the performers and the venues who host them would be quite
disappointed that Mary's promotion of them is to be lost.

WETA, btw--not sure it was specified above--apparently went to its
mostly-news format in Feb. 2005.
Personally, I've been quite angered by WETA's echoing WAMU's long-standing
broadcast of Morning Edition, and then WAMU's reciprocation more recently
in duplicating WETA's long-standing early evening hosting of All Things
Considered--which prior to that had been done in a wonderfully complementary
way: WAMU began as WETA ended the broadcast, and one thus could listen
from anytime in the first 90min and catch it all via WAMU's later airing.

The money-hounding mailings seem to have followed Ms. Rockefeller's
presence, and are a splendid waste of resources and irritation to any
reasonable person (they have done phone calls, too!).
(Btw, is anyone else amazed at the NUMBER of trustees--that's one long list!)

--dl*
====

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Susan Meehan
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:10 AM

I just re-upped with WAMU, and used the comment line to say that I'd double my contribution if WAMU makes a place for Mary Cliff. Positive reinforcement can be powerful.

Isn't her playlist tonight brilliant! It all works together in a truly powerful statement.

I'll contact the underwriters, as well.

Let's hope the light doesn't go out...

Susan Meehan

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:12 AM

Well That's That.

It was a good show.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,bill
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:54 PM

I agree with Ron several messages back. Almost all of the messages posted on this string are documenting effort. Do not give up. These efforts will bear fruit. I am proud to see this.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Michelle Schuster
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:01 PM

The whole thing is very disheartening. We have loved listening to Mary Cliff and Traditions for many years. I never thought WETA would do something like this to our one folk music venue on local radio. Mary is so important to the folk music community. It's a real blow to see WETA save the voice of classical music on one hand, and the kill the folk music sound. I'm just hoping that WAMU, which I prefer anyway, will pick Mary up. We listened last night with so much love and nostalgia. It meant so much that her first song was Jonathan Eberhart's "Life's Trolley Ride." Thank you, Mary, and may you be back soon!!

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 12:30 AM

Very sad news to hear. Mary's program was an institution and an incredibly fine resource.

Wishing her all the best and a very early rebirth,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Mike B.
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:42 PM

Just read on dcrtv.com (a website specializing in local TV and radio information) that WAMU has hired Mary Cliff to host a two hour version of Traditions on Saturday nights from 11 P.M. to 1 A.M. starting Feb. 3 (leading into the station's overnight bluegrass programming).

Although she was doing five hours on WETA at the time her show was cancelled, this is still great news!

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:53 PM

And here's the WAMU page confirming that:
http://wamu.org/programs/traditions/

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 07:14 PM

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is the note from Mary on Folk DJ:


Okay. It's official. Traditions with Mary Cliff has moved to WAMU,
Washington, DC, effective this Saturday night, 11 pm to 1 am.

Guess i'll pre-tape a week and come to Memphis.

Mary Cliff, TRADITIONS
WAMU, 88.5, Washington, DC
www.marycliff.net

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 08:14 PM

*smile*..Two hours is better than nothing! Now I don't have to change my 6 radios that are already set to WAMU for the various weekend programs.

Hooray!

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Ferrara
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 09:50 PM

Yayyyy Mary!

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:06 PM

I couldn't be happier! I knew WAMU would come through. Good work to all who campaigned with WAMU for this.

Remember this during WAMU's next fund drive.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:31 PM

WAMU's press release:
http://wamu.org/about/press/traditions.php

(NB:as of this evening, the html coding is a little wonky, and it shows up strangely with odd characters in it using my Safari browser on the Mac, but you can still read it.)

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: momnopp
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:33 PM

press release of same

YAAAYYYY!!!!

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:37 AM

Ditto momnopp.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:55 AM

I am so glad to hear that Mary's show will continue, albeit in a much shorter version. I noted in the WAMU press release that they heard from many listeners who encouraged them to take on "Traditions". Here's a cheer to all of those who took the time to e-mail or write WAMU. Of course, now I will renew my donations to WAMU (just switching my money from WETA to WAMU).

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:47 AM

I've just heard that WAMU 88.5 FM will be picking up Mary Cliff and Traditions on Saturdays at 11:00pm. Three cheers for WAMU!!!

David

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:00 AM

A big THANK YOU to Ron Davies who brought the whole thing to everyone's attention by starting this thread. Way ta go, Ronnie, baby.

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 09:43 PM

Great stuff!

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,smeghead
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:39 PM

While it's good news that WAMU has picked up Traditions, I remember a day not so long ago when WAMU dropped Lee Michael Demsey and his show in favor more Blah, Blah, Blah. Shortly after that Afternoon Bluegrass was cut to make way for Terry Gross ( yes, she is !) Whatch your backs folkies !

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: Linda Goodman Zebooker
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 03:53 PM

I was away visiting my son in Israel for two weeks when news of WETA's immanent canceling of Traditions hit. I did get brief internet access to my email one day last week, and the FOCUS folk concert series had sent out a broadcast email about it with Sheryl Lahti's email address. Even though I was pretty sure it was too late, I emailed Sheryl Lahti. I said that Traditions was my sole reason for supporting the station. (I didn't yet know about the switch back to classical).

Whenever I had sent money to WETA, either by mail, website or phone pledge, I had always told them in capital letters that Traditions was the reason. I never got the sense that the message went anywhere, though. I would get a "so what's your point?" feeling from the pledge phone answerers. The email form didn't have any place to put your programming favorites.

Exactly two years ago today (Feb 5, 2005) the article came out in the Washington Post that WETA was "considering" dropping classical programming: this thread .

I went to that WETA public comment meeting, dressed in my musical notes hat and Chautauqua pin, hoping to catch the eye of Paul Anthony, one of the WETA Trustees I had met briefly in Chautauqua NY in the '90's. I got in line to be one of the 30 people allowed to make a one-minute comment at the meeting. As instructed by WETA, I had brought with me a copy for each of the Trustees of an overview of the dozens of letters and petitions people had given me at my choirs to take to the meeting. A wide variety of people spoke - educators, choral directors, symphony members, community leaders, etc - all saying how vital WETA's classical music programming was (I included saying how important and loved Traditions was, also). I did get to talk to Paul Anthony for a few minutes as well.

None of it did any good. Public comment period notwithstanding, the decision to drop classical had really already been made.

Mary Cliff was there at the meeting. At that time she was grieving for the fate of her classical music programming co-workers. It was apparent they all really cared about each other as a family.

As soon as I got back from my trip and woke up this morning I checked the Mudcat for news. I'm so relieved Traditions survives in some form, but it's not the same. It's very sad. I had been afraid of its being canceled ever since I started listening in the late '70's - when I didn't have any wheels or money and couldn't really get to any of the concerts Mary so temptingly listed in the Whos Wheres. How could something so good and old-fashioned continue for long in today's world?

Linda

Subject: RE: Mary Cliff 'Traditions' dropped from WETA FM
From: GUEST,Mike B.
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 06:34 PM

A two hour show will necessarily be more tightly focused than a five hour program, but don't underestimate Mary's ability to pull it off with flying colors.

She'll now be leading off an uninterrupted 19 hour block of trad music on WAMU:

11 PM (Saturday) - Triditions with Mary Cliff
1 AM (Sunday) - Bluegrass Overnight
6 AM - Stained Glass Bluegrass (gospel)
10 AM - The Ray Davis Show (traditional bluegrass)
1 PM - The Dick Spottswood Show (ethnic roots music)
3 PM - The Eddie Stubbs Show (country/honky tonk)
5 PM - The Thistle and Shamrock (Celtic)