Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Scoville
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 09:43 AM

I don't care what the origins are of "Kumbaya"--I just hate the song. Everyone I know hates it because it's the first thing people who have no clue about folk music trot out when you say you play folk music, and we're all really tired of hearing about it. I have the same reaction to "Danny Boy" (yeah, yeah, I know--the words aren't folk . . . ), "Soldier's Joy", and "Roseville Fair", none of which are remotely African-American. If I could have them erased from memory for twenty years and then start over, I might learn to like them again. There's not necessarily anything wrong with the SONGS, I'm just heartily sick of them.

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:58 AM

It's had its day, if anyone starts up with it I usually take the opportunity to head for the john. Along with some others - Streets of London, Ramblin' Boy, Early Mornin' Rain etc., etc., etc. - it was done to death.

And it's a shame, because it - like the others - is a great song. Just way too 'Oh wow, like peace man' nowadays. Still goes down well with some aging, and change-resistant, hippies.

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:48 AM

There are no judgment calls or compromises in the Spirituals Permathread such as you suggest, Azizi. Threads are added to the index whenever someone posts a note to it that a song needs to be added. It's a routine matter. Some of us working on the project also comb through old threads looking for things that should be added-- songs that were posted before Mudcat had any permathreads at all, much less the Spirituals one-- but for suggestions such as yours, a simple note to the permathread of a song title and a threadid number where it appears (or whole URL)is all that's needed.

So if you'd like to do a Mudcat search and find the thread(s) where the lyric text appears, I'll be happy to add it. If you want this discussion added as well, include this thread's thread ID or whole URL.

Also, there's no need to add a question mark. As the permathread states:

The goal of this index is to make it easier to search for information about individual songs from the widely-defined "Negro Spirituals" tradition. This means that even when there is doubt as to the "authentic" nature of a specific song, the song will be listed in this index.

In other words, being listed here does not mean that diligent scholarship has ensured that any specific song is a "spiritual" in whatever sense any one individual might mean the term... it means, "Here is a place where we can look up titles we know or run across, and see what others have said, and add what we know-- or ask questions."

The scholarship will be in the THREADS, not in this index... the index is merely a means of facilitating our continued study.

BTW, the Spirituals permathread is about halfway through a massive, long-overdue re-organiztion right now. I hope folks will take a LOOK.


On a personal note--

As far as people's dismissive attitude about the song, I feel the same way when it is sung in a sappy manner, just as I do about Amazing Grace. They're overworked and too "precious." ("De Colores" is another overworked item, IMO, sung by many who have no multicultural relationships at all!) But I heard a rockin' version of Kumbaya once that I really liked, and it's a great floating-verse song to use in the car when I have personal stuff to work through.

Thanks,

~Susan

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:26 AM

I'm curious about this custom of [to quote Tinker; 29 Jan 07 - 08:00 PM ] "...standing by the campfire late in the evening arms crossed, hands held, body's swaying and Kumbaya being sungholding hands".

In the 1960s this same practice of arms crossed holding hands with the persons standing next to you on either side became part of tradition of singing "We Shall Overcome" as a civil rights song [albeit not necessarily standing around a campfire].

Do you think there's some connection? Perhaps we'll never know, but {and with absolutely no disrespect intended and I hope none given}, I'm wondering if this custom was introduced to integrated audiences by White adults who sung Kumbayah that way at summer camps. This statement presupposes that African Americans didn't sing Kumbayah in that manner at camp or that way anywhere else. That comment also presupposes that we {African Americans} didn't sing "We Shall Overcome" that way, or didn't start the crossed arm custom of singing "We Shall Overcome". I have no way of knowing if any of these presuppositions are true. For what it's worth, I don't have any childhood or youth memories of singing "Kumbayah".

**

Although there are differences of opinion on this subject, I believe that "Kumbayah" originated with African American people. When you set aside the almost automatic downputting that occurs with contemporary mention of the song Kumbayah, I can imagine how powerful the words could have been to oppressed African Americans who [in my opinion and in the opinion of others] sang this song during United States slavery.

Actually, my first post to Mudcat addressed the origin of the song Kumbayah. For those interested in that topic, here's that thread:
Origins: Kumbaya

**

It's interesting to me that the song Kumbayah {Kumbaya} does not appear to be listed in Mudcat's African American Spirituals Permathread either under that title or under the name "Come By Here". Perhaps that's because there is still some difference of opinion as to whether Kumbayah is a 'real' African American spiritual or not.

I'd like to suggest that this song be added to the African American Spirituals Permathread and a question mark be put after its title.

If Kumbayah really is from the African American Gullah tradition, perhaps the souls of those who created this song will be satisfied by this compromise.

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:55 AM

Perhaps you could get the proper communal spirit if everyone put their finger into the ear of the next person round the circle.
Or is that too crazy even for Folkies?
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: treewind
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 06:48 AM

Talking of clichés and stereotypes: A proper folkie wouldn't be holding hands with anyone while singing because he'd have his finger in his ear.

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 06:38 AM

Last time I sang Kumbaya was at my Aunt's funeral - she was very active in the Brownie / Guide / Ranger movement in London and we wanted to reflect that huge part of her life in the service. My sister wanted us to sing Ging Gang Goolie but we compromised on Kumbaya, each verse sung as a response to a prayer. At least that way we didn't collapse into fits of laughter, and No, we didn't hold hands!

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: SouthernCelt
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:57 PM

There's nothing wrong with the song but back in the peace and love generation years it was sung far too many times trying to persuade people to be touchy-feely, everybody-love-their-brother. Often it was done in groups where it was just inappropriate.

SC

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: GUEST,LilyFestre
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 08:53 PM

Of course I have sung this song and held hands with others around the campfire. Isn't that what camp is all about? It was one of my favorites, very calming.

LQF

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Ref
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 08:42 PM

Oooooookay. Granted it's become something of a cliche, but that's because it's a popular piece. there are wonderful harmonic opportunities in it. There used to be a male Quartet called The Revelers who recorded a spectacular, rolling, uplifting version of it that sounded like eight guys instead of just the four. I wish i could get it onto a CD. it might rehabilitate some of you jaded sophisticates!

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 08:29 PM

I think that "Kumbaya" is a very nice song for Brownie Scouts. Nobody else can pull it off without looking silly, but girls who are 6, 7, and 8 can sing it and bring a tear to my eye.
I remember about ten years ago, I was at The Huntington Gallery, home of the 18th century masterpieces, Blue Boy and Pinkie. As I was leaving, I saw a half-dozen girls sitting under a tree in a circle, singing "Kumbaya" and wearing dresses from the 1790's, in a variety of pastels. There was something wonderful about that sight. Maybe they were all spoiled little rich girls with domineering parents - but at that moment, for me, they were perfect.

And the song was perfect, too.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Tinker
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 08:00 PM

Okay Okay I confess I went to one of "those camps". I remember standing by the campfire late in the evening arms crossed, hands held, body's swaying and Kumbaya being sung... and my kids have done it within the last 5 years.....

Leaving now.....

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 07:57 PM

You got it wrong, IB48. The devil dog with a machine gun isn't there to make you sing "Kumbaya". He's there if you sing "Kumbaya".

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 07:39 PM

We sang it on the bus on the way to and from day camp circa 1960. Holding hands was not an option.

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: GUEST,IB48
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 03:06 PM

A devil dog with a machine gun couldnt get me to sing kumbaya

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Slag
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 03:01 PM

I firmly grip one hand with the other, grit my teeth and THEN sing "Kumbaya".

Subject: RE: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Scoville
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 02:57 PM

It's a stereotype. I think I've sung "Kumbaya" maybe three times in my entire life, and never holding hands.

Subject: Holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'
From: Cool Beans
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 02:55 PM

It's become an over-used punchline--as in "Don't expect Republicans and Democrats to hold hands and sing 'Kumbaya " Google has 89,000 citations of the phrase.
But here's the thing. Although I learned 'Kumbaya' at summer camp in 1960, (but didn't discover it meant "Come By Here" for a couple more years), and I sang along with it at concerts throughtout the 60s, I don't remember ever HOLDING HANDS and singing "Kumbaya."
What's your recollection?