BS: Best Canadian ever

Subject: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Dickey
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:01 AM

I think it is time to vote for the best Canadian.

Othet than the gi=uy that invented Kokanee Glacier Beer. The best canadianss are Dudley Do-Right and his predecessor, Sargent Preston of the Yukon.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:18 AM

Dudley and Preston are great, no doubt about it. Then there was Sam Steele, first commander of the RCMP...he was extraordinary. Read his life story, Dickey, it's a good one.

Pierre Trudeau was definitely our most interesting politician. Most people either greatly admired him or utterly detested him. I was among those who really disliked him at one time, but I slowly changed my mind about that and ended up admiring him. He had guts and keen intelligence, that's for sure.

Nixon referred to him once as an "asshole" (on the Oval Office tapes that came out in Watergate). When the press asked Trudeau what he thought about that, he smiled and quipped, "I've been called worse things, by better men." That was a very clever answer! ;-)

And here's a cool quote from Irving Layton, a Canadian writer who didn't like Trudeau: Pierre Elliott Trudeau's victory in Canada's 1968 election was not universally welcomed. "In Pierre Elliott Trudeau," Irving Layton declared, "Canada has at last produced a political leader worthy of assassination."

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:25 AM

According to CBC its Tommy Douglas but I would have to vote for David Suzuki.

Greatest artist - Bill Reid

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 02:15 AM

I'm inclined to agree with Layton. The enactment of the War Measures Act did more to alienate a massive proportion of people in Quebec, from the rest of Canada, in one fell swoop, than anything else in the previous history of this country. So much overwhelming mindless clout expended, for such a tiny group of criminal extremists. A cunning intellect and academically inclined, he was. Keen intelligence?.....well that's debateable.

But he sure got a lot of airhead bimbos all wet at the outset. Which was weird to me.....I thought him a singularly, cold and unattractive man and his interest in sweet young things, sort of creepy.....like someone on the prowl for what he perceived as appropriate breeding stock, rather than a 3 dimentional life's partner. But then, I was young, what did I know?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Wordsmith
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 02:19 AM

The doctor who invented (discovered) insulin, although his name escapes me.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 04:25 AM

For a country that size to produce only 10 people worthy of note is beyond me.

I vote for former RCMP officer Leslie Nielson of 'Police Squad' fame. Funniest actor ever after Steve Martin. The man has bow legs and looks like an egg whisk when he dances. He's been in many ridiculous films - Airplane, Naked Gun (Police Squad spin-off movies) and has the perfect deadpan face.

He was a guest star on 'Due South' as a fellow RCMP on the trail of a killer and the first thing he did on set was to tell the costume department they were lacing the boots incorrectly!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: gnu
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:42 AM

Um... I believe the CBC's overall process weeded out "the guy who did this or that" and ultimately named the Canuck who was the most dedicated to public service and who most advanced the standard of living in Canada. = Tommy Douglas.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: *daylia*
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:43 AM

Wordsmith, the discoverer of insulin was Sir Frederick Banting. There is a school named after him in Alliston Ont, where he was born, a half-hour drive from where I live near Barrie. For sufferers of diabetes, he's certainly earned the pedestal Wordsmith put him on -- and for the rest of us, he remains a source of nationalistic pride, inspiration and wisdom. From the link above:

It occurred to me when we were puffing up the hill and the train was speeding along away below that the engine with all its power could not go up that slushy, soft, snowy road as fast as we could. Power is useless unless directed in the proper channel. People have different powers and the big question in life must be-"Are we on the right road for travel?"

We will certainly not get far in our given time unless we have chosen the road that is fitted to our particular locomotive.

- Dr. F. G. Banting

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:05 AM

McDonnell on the Heights.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:51 AM

Ah Rap! but not one in 10,000 know his name....and isn't that true of most real heroes in this life?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:00 AM

Here's one you should enjoy Dickey - Norman Bethune, who is a revered hero to the Chinese people.

"After being elevated to hero status by Mao, Bethune has been revered by the Chinese people ever since. Numerous statues and memorials were erected around China in his memory, including the 800-bed Norman Bethune International Peace Hospital (which includes a Bethune museum on the hospital grounds) and the Norman Bethune Medical School.
• Bethune is buried in the Cemetery of Martyrs in Shih-chia-chuang. Every year on the anniversary of his death, a ceremony is held at Bethune's tomb."

Short Bio

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:17 AM

Pierre Trudea, Tommy Douglas, David Suzuki, Peter Z......, Rosemary Brown, Nellie McClung, Wilfred Laurier and Joni Mitchell..IMHO.As a guest, will I be deleted ?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:19 AM

Apart from GUEST, no-one's mentioned Joni Mitchell, which surprised me in this group.

I'd vote for her (but then I don't really know all that many Canadians anyway). One of the very best ever singers, songwriters and guitarists, anywhere in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Bee
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:22 AM

Ah, but all heros have their detractors. A friend of mine is the son of a (now deceased) laboratory assistant to Banting. The old man grumbled all his life that Banting owed him at least a little credit for his significant contributions (to his son's embarassment, deserved by the father or not).

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Dickey
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:29 AM

CBC's Picks:

Frederick Banting the man who discovered insulin

Alexander Graham Bell

Don Cherry

Tommy Douglas

Terry Fox

Wayne Gretzky

Sir John A. Macdonald         

Lester B. Pearson

David Suzuki

Pierre Trudeau

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:38 AM

What, the bloke who invented the telephone voted higher than one of the best songwriters in history? IMO that's definitely the wrong way round :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:01 AM

That was just a list Scrump, not a ranking. Poor Joni never even made the list, but then, who would consider being in the running with the likes of Don Cherry, an honour?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Dickey
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:08 AM

The invention of the telephone was one step int the pathway of inventions that lead to the electronics we have today that enable us to have recorded music, broadcasts and almplification.

Where would artists today be without that?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:13 AM

Where would artists today be without that?

Doing more live gigs that we would be able to see :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: black walnut
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:16 AM

Just like reading the Sports Section. Not too many women...

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Marion
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:20 AM

Even if I did think that Joni was Canada's best songwriter, I wouldn't think she belonged on a list of the greatest Canadians any more than Don Cherry or Wayne Gretsky. We who are into such things are very fond of our musicians (or athletes, or sports journalists, as the case may be), but at the end of the day, they're just musicians.

I'd say the "greatest" people are those who make a difference to society through humanitarianism, invention or discovery, or leadership.

Tommy Douglas ("Father of Medicare") seems like a reasonable winner of the CBC contest, though David Suzuki or Terry Fox would also make sense to me.

Guest, who's Peter Z.?

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:22 AM

"Guest, who's Peter Z.?"

Probably means Peter G.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:25 AM

The doctor who invented (discovered) insulin, although his name escapes me.

As noted above, Banting was one of the guys. The co-worker/discoverer was Best who'd been born in the US but became a Canuck. (Macleod and Collip were important to the discovery also.) Both B and B fought in Canada's army in WWI. Banting was awarded a medal for braverey because he continued to treat wounded soldiers when he himself was wounded.

"Charles Herbert Best was born in Maine, the son of a physician. He joined the Canadian artillery during World War I, and thus qualified for Canadian citizenship.

Best was still a medical student at the University of Toronto when he joined Frederick Banting in his work to isolate the pancreatic hormone insulin and apply it to the treatment of diabetes. The work had personal significance for Best, as his favorite aunt had recently died of the disease. He finished his medical degree in 1925, two years after Banting and physiology professor J.J. Macleod received the Nobel Prize for the work. Banting, who felt that Best should have been recognized by the Nobel Prize committee as well, gave half of his monetary award to Best. Macleod then shared his with J.B. Collip, the chemist who had worked with them to purify insulin for clinical trials."

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:38 AM

Well as I mentioned above Black Walnut, more often than not, real heroes are unsung....male or female. Hero worship, while sometimes of benefit to a particular cause, as in the case of Fox's admirable endeavor, generally makes me uncomfortable.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Marion
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:42 AM

True that there's not many women being spoken of. I expect that's because of the historical "invisibility" of women's accomplishments, as well as the historical limitations on women's activities.

So, I'll nominate Lady Aberdeen, founder of the Victorian Order of Nurses

Marion

PS. Who's Peter G.?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:53 AM

Peter Gzowski

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Marion
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM

Thanks Bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: pdq
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:55 AM

How about some inventors: Guglielmo Marconi and Alexander Graham Bell.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: sian, west wales
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:57 AM

Not the best, but one of whom I'm proud (and whose name has appeared in Mudcat before now): General Romeo Dallaire.

And, if you're looking for women who have made a difference, I'd suggest Adelaide Hoodless who founded the Women's Institute in Stony Creek, Ontario; a movement which 'made land' in the UK in Angelsey, Wales, BTW.

“A nation cannot rise above the level of its homes, we women must work and study together to raise our homes to the highest level possible.â€쳌 (AH)

It was quite a radical, early feminist idea and did a lot in terms of improving the quality of women's lives and the home environment. And still does, at its best.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:59 AM

We also have Neil Young, Gordon Lightfoot, Ian and Sylvia Tyson, Leonard Cohen, and Buffy Sainte-Marie (born in Saskatchewan, dual citizenship for Canada and USA)....along with Joni Mitchell...a very big slice of the finest folk-rock songwriters and performers of the 60's there. If Bob Dylan had been born a little bit farther north it would almost have been a clean sweep of the top folk songwriters of the time.

And then there's This guy...

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:02 PM

General Romeo Dallaire.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:07 PM

"Dallaire and his troops were about to become spectators to genocide. As bodies filled the streets and rivers, the general, backed by a U.N. mandate that didn't even allow him to disarm the militias, pleaded with his U.N. superiors for additional troops, ammunition, and the authority to seize Hutu arms caches. In an assessment that military experts now accept as realistic, Dallaire argued that with 5,000 well-equipped soldiers and a free hand to fight Hutu power, he could bring the genocide to a rapid halt.
The U.N. turned him down. He asked the U.S. to block the Hutu radio transmissions. The Clinton administration refused to do even that. Gun-shy after a humiliating retreat from Somalia, Washington saw nothing to gain from another intervention in Africa, and the Defense Department, according to a memo, assessed the cost of jamming the Hutu hate broadcasts at $8,500 per flight-hour.
Dallaire's pain is palpable as he remembers his yearlong mission. His words, raw as a wound, make a grim contrast to the carefully parsed regrets of the world leaders who actually had the power to stop the genocide but turned away. He has just spoken at an Amnesty-sponsored conference in Atlanta on law and human rights, and he looks tired- older than his 56 years. His eyes are close set, raptor-like, but his gaze is warm and direct. "When you're in command, you are in command," he says. "There's 800,000 gone, the mission turned into catastrophe, and you're in command. I feel I did not convince my superiors and the international community," he says. "I didn't have enough of the skills to be able to influence that portion of the problem."
Three days after the Rwandan killings began, with Dallaire's troops running short of rations as well as ammunition, about l,000 European troops arrived in Kigali. The general watched with frustration as the well-armed, well-fed Westerners landed and left again as soon as they'd evacuated their own nationals. Then, after Hutu militias killed ~o Belgian paratroopers, Brussels withdrew all of its peacekeepers (the only significant Western contingent and the only one that was properly equipped) from the U.N. mission. Dallaire's depleted force was on its own.
Even as the already desperate situation worsened, Washington called for a complete withdrawal of peacekeepers. On April 21, after international pressure, the U.S. agreed to a limited force and supported a Security Council resolution slashing the force to 270 peacekeepers. U.S. Secretary of State Madeline Albright accurately described the tiny force as enough "to show the will of the international community."
If Dallaire's anger at those who did too little is fierce, his fury at world leaders who feigned ignorance and did nothing is white hot. He cannot forget, for example, that President Clinton stopped for a few hours in Kigali in 1998, after it was all over, and with the engines of Air Force One running, said he was sorry; he didn't know.
Or that David Rawson, the U.S. ambassador to Rwanda at the time of the mass murders, waited a month before declaring a "state of disaster," and then dismissed the slaughter as "tribal killings." Calling what happened in Rwanda "tribal" conflict made intervention seem futile. U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Prudence Bushnell, who had pushed hard for the U.S. to "neutralize" Hutu hate radio, later explained to author Samantha Power, "What I was told was, 'Look, Pru, these people do this from time to time."'
The designation of "tribal" conflict also nicely avoided the word "genocide." Had a major power or the U.N. invoked that term in time, all states that were signatories of the 1948 convention on genocide would have been obliged to condemn the slaughter and act to stop it.
Avoiding the word did not however avoid the fact. "They knew how many people were dying," Dallaire says, no matter what word they used. "The world is racist," he says bitterly. ,' "Africans don't count; Yugoslavians do. More people were killed, injured, internally displaced, and refugeed in 100 days in Rwanda than in the whole eight to nine years of the Yugoslavia campaign," he says, and there are still peacekeeping troops in the former Yugoslavia while Rwanda is again off the radar. f "Why didn't the world react to scenes where women were held as shields so nobody could shoot back while the militia shot into the | crowd?" he asks. "Where... boys were drugged up and turned into child soldiers, slaughtering families?...Where girls and women were systematically raped before they were killed? Babies ripped out of their stomachs? ...Why didn't the world come?"
Dallaire supplies his own answer: "Because there was no self-interest....No oil. They didn't come because some humans are [considered] less human than others."

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 02:09 PM

That more than anything else is why I dislike Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 02:12 PM

"When Clinton lied, no-one died"

Nobody that we should care about, anyway. Just Rwandans...

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Mooh
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM

Stephen Lewis, David Suzuki, Tommy Douglas, Jean Larrivee and a host of others...

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:29 PM

I have never quite seen what made Romeo Dallaire a hero for what happened in Rwanda. But he became a hero afterwards for his open struggle with the demons of what Rwanda did to him. That is what gives him stature.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: black walnut
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:43 PM

alice munroe

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: sian, west wales
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:55 PM

Peter, I agree. It's what he's done since ...

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: gnu
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:16 PM

David Suzuki over and over? Why? Genius? Maybe. Maybe lucky to be a smart guy in the right genes at the right time.

As for all his "activism", I would like to get paid for narrating science programming on the CBC. Especially for narrarting programs about which I know nothing about... programs about topics WAAAAAYYYY out of my field of expertise because I once was part of something great... in my own field.

Can you say "marketing"? Gooood. Now try "ratings".

Davey Boy ain't no Tommy and ain't no Pierre.

As for Pierre and the War Measures Act.... nobody with any semblence of civility was offended. Those license plates are another matter, and only meant to further the cause of those who would sell this country down the river.... the Mississippi River. René Lévesque, a New Brunswicker BTW, and Brian Mulroney, and Jacques Parizeau and the rest... just looking to sell.

Bring back FIRA! Oh... sorry... Stevie boy is selling the country down the river now... too late.

Unless, perhaps??? Justin time?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: gnu
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:32 PM

Ahhh... sorry, non-Canucks. Several references there which you would not understand. But, that's okay, we are insignificant and shy. Carry on with the other threads. We'll just talk amongst ourselves. Until the water rights in Quebec come up.

Those are the water rights which are meant to feed the Tri-State area... the LARGEST civil engineering project on the face of the eatrh, on-going for over twenty years. Hmmm... can you say "separate"? Now, try "sovereignty" for the Country of Quebec. Now try "rich beyond all belief" if you are the politician who can make it happen. Stevie is giving it a go now too, isn't he?

We are taking the piss here. No FIRA. No Pierre. No Tommy. No balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:37 PM

Can you elaborate gnu, what is this civil engineering project of which you speak and what is FIRA?

And yes, Stevie's pulling a Mulroney.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 06:01 PM

The Canadian medical professor who helped to save my life when I was critically ill with pneumonia in 1949. Many people who know me might argue that he should be on the list of WORST Canadians, to be honest !
My personal favourite Canadienne, is Vicky Herbert, of Scarborough, Toronto, for reasons into which I will not go !!

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:09 PM

I'm going throw a plug for Lester B. Pearson ... I feel his contributions to Canada (and the world) have much been forgotten over time.

As per Paul Anka and Neil Young ... these guys have lived south of the border so long I can't really consider them Canadians anymore. Joni Mitchell still retains a home here in Canada.

In regards to Buffy Saint Marie ... all aboriginal Canadians hold dual U.S. Canadian citizenship.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:11 PM

Paul Anka being mentioned here 'cause he was voted as one of the worst Canadians.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:05 PM

Yeah, I voted him THE worst! ;-)

bubblyrat - What???? That's odd...Vicky Herbert of Scarborough, Ontario is one of my personal favorite Canadiennes too...for reasons I would not dream of divulging here....
























Ha! Just pulling your chain, eh? I've never met her.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Beer
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:15 PM

The Undertaker................ Stanfield.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:20 PM

The fumble that lost the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: heric
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:51 PM

(Joni lives in LA, but still owns the vacation cabin in Sechelt she's always had.)

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:12 PM

The Underwear................Stanfield

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:59 AM

three great snooker players of the 1980's Cliff Thorburn, Kirk Stevens, Big Bill Wuirbenik.

Mordecai Richler - the novelist.

Joni, of course - but too obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: gnu
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:56 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad - PM
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:37 PM

Can you elaborate gnu, what is this civil engineering project of which you speak and what is FIRA?

The project is a water supply system for The Tri-State area. This system will eventually extend into Quebec.

FIRA = Foreign Investment Review Agency. Created under Trudeau to ensure that Canada didn't get bought up by ferriners. FIRA

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:41 AM

When I was a teenager and I couldn't afford to buy many records, I had a few that I use to play over and over again, some of them by Canadians: Decade by Neil Young, HIssing of the Summer Lawns by Joni Mitchell, and The Band by The Band. All Canadians, apart from Levon Helm.

The other records, by the way, were Astral Weeks and Moondance by Van Morrison and Layla by Derek and the Dominoes.

I had other records, of course, but these were the main ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: 3refs
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:58 AM

Every member of the Military, every Police Officer, every Firefighter and anyone else who made the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of someone else. They are all tied for first!

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:37 AM

In response to the first part of gnu's 13 Mar 07 - 05:32 PM post,

as a non-Canuck, let me say thank you to those posting information about Canadians such as Romeo Dallaire and Lester B Pearson.

I was read with great interest the linked page that Bruce provided about Romeo Dallaire.

And for other non-Canadians, here's a link to biographical information on Lester B Pearson and here's an excerpt from that wikipedia page:

"Lester Bowles Pearson, often referred to as "Mike", PC, OM, CC, OBE, MA, LL.D. (April 23, 1897 – December 27, 1972) was a Canadian statesman, diplomat and politician who was made a Nobel Laureate in 1957. He served as the fourteenth Prime Minister of Canada from April 22, 1963, to April 20, 1968, as the head of two back-to-back minority governments following elections in 1963 and 1965.

During his time as Prime Minister, Pearson's minority governments introduced universal health care, student loans, the Canada Pension Plan and Canada's flag. During his tenure, Prime Minister Pearson also convened the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism. With these accomplishments, together with his groundbreaking work at the United Nations, and in international diplomacy, Pearson can safely be regarded as one of the most influential Canadians of the twentieth century"...

-snip-

Btw, I also didn't know that "all aboriginal Canadians hold dual U.S. Canadian citizenship".

Thanks for posting this information and listing of these distinquished Canadians!

Best wishes from your neighbor,

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:06 AM

Pierre Berton.

Stan Rogers.

Sam Steele.

And Alexander Graham Bell, for his work with the deaf.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:32 AM

Define "Great".

Not sure who you were asking, but from http://www.thefreedictionary.com:

great (grt)
adj. great·er, great·est
1. Very large in size.
2. Larger in size than others of the same kind.
3. Large in quantity or number: A great throng awaited us. See Synonyms at large.
4. Extensive in time or distance: a great delay.
5. Remarkable or outstanding in magnitude, degree, or extent: a great crisis.
6. Of outstanding significance or importance: a great work of art.
7. Chief or principal: the great house on the estate.
8. Superior in quality or character; noble: "For he was great, ere fortune made him so" John Dryden.
9. Powerful; influential: one of the great nations of the West.
10. Eminent; distinguished: a great leader.
11. Grand; aristocratic.
12. Informal Enthusiastic: a great lover of music.
13. Informal Very skillful: great at algebra.
14. Informal Very good; first-rate: We had a great time at the dance.
15. Being one generation removed from the relative specified. Often used in combination: a great-granddaughter.
16. Archaic Pregnant.
n.
1. pl. greats or great One that is great: a composer considered among the greats.
2. Music
a. A division of most pipe organs, usually containing the most powerful ranks of pipes.
b. A similar division of other organs.

Not sure if that helps much!

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Seiri Omaar
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:09 AM

Tommy Douglas and Nellie McClung take my votes... both such insanely clever people.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:21 AM

Sorry, I did mean Peter G. I suggest him because I feel that he had a unique way of bringing the country together. Whenever I listened to him I always felt that Canada was more of a village than a vast space separing us all. I would also like to add Bruce Cockburn, for his humanitarian work and also because, along with Joni Mitchell, he is one of Canadas finest musicians and songwriters.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: number 6
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:36 AM

Best Canadians in the musical genre ...

Gordon Lightfoot

Oscar Peterson

Randy Bachman ... who is also one hell of a nice guy.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:41 AM

I do not recall Pierre Burton being mentioned. If he was, I will second him as a great Canuck. If he hasn't, I offer his name. His love for our history, the shenanigans of political life, the raw underbelly of Canadina life was what he wrote about. And for those of us who love to read, what we read about. I miss Pierre because he helped teach us to be a nation, to recognize our follies and our successes. He IMO, in his own way he melded this place as did Vimy Ridge, the Halibut Treaty and Dieppe. Those words may mean little to most folks, but to Canucks they help define who and what we are.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Beer
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:50 AM

With you on that one Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:28 AM

Heroes of the True North Strong and Free

How much do you really know about 'great' Canadians?   Take the little quiz -- you might be surprised.   

I got only 4/10    *squirm squirm*   and I like to think of myself as an informed Canuck?   

Hope you do better.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:42 AM

Thanks for the cute quiz Daylia... I got 9 points, having missed the Arctic explorer. I did have an unfair advantage on question 5, since I work for the organization the guy founded.

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: kendall
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:45 AM

I meant define "Best".
Maybe a clone will delete that mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Guest HiLo
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:47 AM

My vote for best Canadian Musicians..or Singers

Lenny Breau, Leonard Cohen, Stan Rodgers, Neil Young, Bruce Cockburn, Joni Mitchell,k.d.Lang, Diana Krall, Portia White,Anne Murray, Rita MacNeil,Denis Doherty, Natalie MacMaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:51 AM

3/10, but then I guess that's not too bad for a guy in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM

I got 9/10..missed the Arctic explorer. It also reminded me that we all forgot about Dr. Bethune!

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:01 PM

I missed the Arctic explorer also.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:04 PM

"we all forgot about Dr. Bethune!"

No we didn't, check out my post of 13 Mar 07 - 09:00 AM.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:07 PM

I missed the first female MP.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:14 PM

The same quiz site also has this: Distinguished Canadian Women

I found it much harder - I left the questions blank where I had no idea, and got 6/25. It's mostly about political offices - I'd like to think I'd have done better if it were looking at a broader range of accomplishments and "firsts".

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:15 PM

And while I'm here, maybe I could spell Pierre's name properly: BERTON.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:33 PM

I got 13/25 on the famous women quizz, I guess I need to read more Canadian History, I am ashamed of myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: sian, west wales
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:33 PM

10/25 on the Women and a lot of those were guesses. I agree - I think I would have done better if it wasn't all about government. I got 9/10 on the general one; missed the aboriginal soldier question.

Weird: a Canadian sitting in Wales taking quizzes set by a Welshman sitting in Canada.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:45 PM

LOL sian, small world eh?

Thanks for the Distinguished Women's quiz, Marion. Just checked it over, and I KNOW I'd flunk miserably    *sigh*   but I'll take it anyway, cuz I'll learn something reading through the correct responses.

If another Canuck manages to flunk the first test (you're excused, Rap!) please post here or PM me so I don't feel so    very small and all alone

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:00 PM

I got 11 wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:23 PM

Holy crap, eh? I got 10 out of 10 on the famous Canadians Test. Seriously, I really did. I was lucky, because there were four I was quite unsure about, but process of elimination helped narrow those down to a one out of 2 chance on each...

Pity I'm not this lucky with lotteries. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:31 PM

I missed 8 on the wimmen's quiz, a lot of lucky guesses.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:44 PM

10/10? Awesome!   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:35 PM

HiLo .... Lenny Breau wasn't a Canadian ... he was an American from Auburn Maine. He did get his 'start' in Canada ... he lived back and forth between the U.S. and Canada until his tragic and mysterious death in L.A. in 1984.

Regardless of what nationality he was, I consider him one the finest guitarist that ever lived.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:37 PM

Colin Campbell McKay of Nova Scotia..."How can moral or intellectual education improve human beings whose whole energies are absorbed in the effort to secure bare physical support[?] In accordance wth nature, material growth precedes moral. Reformers must understand that material reform comes first...It is impossible to affectively apply moral or intellectual influences to the poor unless we have first placed them on a sound basis of physical existance..."

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:44 PM

Marshall McLuhan--he changed the way thinking people think about thinking about media.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:48 PM

No one has mentioned John Kenneth Galbraith. A Canadian economist--but educated at Berkeley. Socialist, basically, and IMO, brilliant.

I would hesitate to choose one person from the many names people have offered above. I hope we have more like them coming down the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:50 PM

Shawnadithit...last of the Beothuk people.

Eunice Williams...Puritan by birth, Mohawk by choice.

Emily Carr...artist among many other things.

Agnes MacPhail...MP.

Laura Secord...American by birth, Canadian heroine nonetheless.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:59 PM

Is Gordon Lightfoot canadian,if he is i nominate him for thst wonderful song If you could read my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: gnu
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 04:18 PM

Agnes MacPhail...MP.

If only there was a female categorey!

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:19 PM

Gordon Lightfoot is most definitely Canadian, ib48, and he wrote a few hundred great songs. He was born and grew up in Orillia, Ontario, Canada...my home town for the past 22 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:35 PM

I was proud to get 8 out of 10 but have to admit it was mostly a process of elimination.

I did not attend public school in Canada but I did attend a Canadian University. History was required. It wasn't easy to learn Canadian history in 3 months!

I'm scared to try the Canadian Women quiz.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:48 PM

Dai Vernon

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Dickey
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 01:33 PM

Robbie Robertson !

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 10:47 AM

Loreena McKennit, why is she never mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 11:07 AM

Meself. Why am I never mentioned?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:04 PM

Thanks for mentioning Loreena McKennit! She's marvelous.

Another opinion in. My dachshund, Finnegan, says he is the greatest Canadian ever. He's been saying that ever since I can remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: number 6
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 10:32 PM

Alden Nowlan.


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 11:01 PM

That's more like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: *daylia*
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 07:24 AM

Let's not forget Liona Boyd, the FIrst Lady of the Guitar. Liona was one of the first women.. or perhaps THE first woman (?) ... to venture bravely into the traditionally "male" world of classical guitar.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Hi Lo
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:14 AM

Robertson Davies and Alistair MacCleod, the two best writers Canada has ever produced. It seems that people in the arts are seldom considered for these designations. If they were we would be able to list some of the great artists and writers of the 20th century. Too bad we are so politically focused when we consider greatness.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Bee
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:21 AM

In that case, Emily Carr deserves a nod - she was, as well as a great painter, instrumental in initiating a breakthrough for women artists, in that some well-established male artists recognised her tremendous talent instead of writing her off as an eccentric Sunday painter. I think as well, she brought positive attention to the great art of the Haida.

Anyone who hasn't seen her work in person is missing a moving and awe inspiring vision of West Coast forests.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:28 AM

That is so true. Another painter whose works you must see in the original to feel their power is Alex Colville. The kind of power that is in the original paintings of these two is staggering.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Jerome & Rusty
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 08:26 PM

The Friendly Giant

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Casey and Finnegan
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 10:25 PM

Screw you Jerome & Rusty. The winner is Ernie Coombs by a kilometer.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: black walnut
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 11:52 AM

Yes, Emily Carr! Yes Alex Colville AND Mary Pratt! Yes The Friendly Giant!

What a great country this is.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,kids of Degrassi High
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 12:59 PM

Right on Casey and Finnegan. Ernie Coombs rocks. The Friendly Giant is a knob.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 01:23 PM

And that Rusty was always half in the bag ...

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 08:08 PM

Tm Horton for the hardest bodychecks and the tastiest doughnuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: gnu
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 06:51 AM

Rusty was always half in the bag!!! Hehehee! I love it! Look up, waaaaay up. Magic to a tot.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 09:59 AM

Anne Murray because she proved to us that you could have a great career and stay in Canada. Also an awesome singer.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 01:46 PM

I was hoping nobody would say Anne Murray. If you mention the old sweetheart, you have to mention Celine Dion.

I'll leave now :>0

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 03:55 PM

And please take Celine with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 03:58 PM

Okay then, what about ol' Shania? Take her or leave her?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Wayne and Schuster
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 06:31 PM

Hey, I guess everbody's pet.....Ju-u-liette is out of the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Bee
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 06:55 PM

Re Shania: my husband sez definitely he'd keep her, but Celine's too bony.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 07:00 PM

Re: Shania: I'm afraid there aren't too many of us fellas that wouldn't keep her ... Course, she'd be quite a handful - speaking of C&W, does the song "I've Got a Tiger By the Tail" come to mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 07:08 PM

By the way, I say that with the greatest respect - I'm not crazy about her style of music, but I really admire her for her achievement, and for her sensible outlook.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bobad
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 07:21 PM

"Celine's too bony."

As the old saying goes "the closer to the bone, the sweeter the meat"

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 08:09 PM

When I referred to Anne Murray as the 'old' sweetheart, I meant that Celine was the 'new' sweetheart. They're both pretty sad if you ask me. At least Shania is not embarassing.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: gnu
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 08:22 PM

Shania Twang! What a woooooman! Anne Murray! What a ... well, you know where this is going.... straight back to the fact that this is not Canuck Idol.

C'mon, this is about who has done the most and sacrificed to most for this, our country, our community.... surely it's http://www.sassjordan.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: gnu
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 08:23 PM

oops

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: bubblyrat
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 06:35 AM

Lots of names I don"t recognise here, but then I am English !! But nobody mentions Margaret Attwood here ( The Handmaid"s Tale, etc.etc.)----she is/was Canadienne, surely ??

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:30 AM

My Dad....though as a Newfoundlander he became Canadian by default.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: *daylia*
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:58 AM

The "Unknown Soldier" is/are one of the greatest gifts Canada's given the rest of the world ....

He died during one of the crucial battles of the First World War, and in May, 2000, his remains were retrieved from Vimy Ridge and reburied at the base of the National War Memorial in Ottawa. Though his history is �unknown,� his tomb ensures that the 116,000 soldiers who gave their lives for peace and freedom in Canada will never be forgotten.

And, musically speaking, lets not forget the lovely, talented and inspiring Sarah McLachlan or the fiesty, tell-it-exactly-like-it-is Alanis Morissette.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 10:00 AM

(Yes, Margaret Atwood is/was Canadian. Fine writer, of course.)

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 11:27 AM

Jan Arden has not been mentioned (great cdn Music Category) But overall I would have to go with Trudeau. He changed our country in a very profound way and I thank him for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 11:51 AM

Yes, just think - if it wasn't for PET, we'd still be using the same system of weights and measures as our largest trading partner.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Bee
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 12:38 PM

Meself, I for one am grateful for PET's metric system, given I've had several jobs where small measurements were necessary, and fractionated inches would have been a huge pain.

However, the US does need some enlightened leader to bring them round to metric - maybe a religious leader might point out that if God wanted us to use yards, feet, and inches, he'd have given us twelve fingers instead of ten. ;-p

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:25 PM

"his tomb ensures that the 116,000 soldiers who gave their lives for peace and freedom in Canada will never be forgotten"

Codswallop, Daylia! They did NOT give their lives for peace and freedom in Canada. If the Germans and Austro-Hungarians had managed to win the First World War it would not have affected peace and freedom in Canada (or in the UK either) one iota. It simply would have caused a temporary readjustment of some kind to the general balance of several great powers in Europe (Germany, the UK, France, Russia, Italy, Austria-Hungary). France would have gone on being typically French, just as they did after losing the previous Franco-Prussian War. The British would have gone on running the British overseas empire, not much the worse for wear. The Germans would have avoided a humiliating social and financial collapse, their royal family would have continued governing in a constitutional monarchy, and the Nazis would never have come to power at all, and the Second World War would probably never even have happened. Russia would probably have still have had its communist revolution around 1917 and would have become politically divorced from western Europe. Austria-Hungary would have tottered on into an uncertain future in the 20s and 30s, probably facing more separatist movements in the unstable Balkans. Italy would have remained relatively the same as before, possibly losing a teeny bit of territory around its border with Austria.

The newly separates nations of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Austra, Hungary, and Yugoslavia would not have come into existence at all after WWI, but would have remained as integral parts of Germany and Austria-Hungary.

The world, in fact, might have been considerably better off if Germany and Austria had NOT lost WWI, because it would not have sowed the seeds for starting WWII, a much more destructive conflict.

So who died to preserve peace and freedom in Canada? NO one.

Soldiers do NOT usually die to preserve anyone's peace or freedom. They just think they do, because everyone tells them so. They die, albeit unwittingly, to serve the purposes of great industrial/military/political machines which stupidly stumble into fighting each other now and then because they have mutually conflicting interests and not a terribly firm grip on higher moral concepts...such as "live and let live" and "let's share the cookie".

Not one Canadian soldier died at Vimy Ridge to preserve your freedom or mine. Not one. And it doesn't matter how many times people say they did, and repeat that old cliche...they didn't. They died innocently as pawns in the game of competing empires.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: number 6
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:44 PM

.. and "Jesus Christ died for nothin' I suppose."

I thank J. Prine for that line.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:47 PM

I always figured in Jesus' case that it was what he lived for that was important...

...but I don't think of his death as a "ransom" for other people's sins.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Bee
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:09 PM

Well, neither John Prine nor Jesus were Canadians.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: *daylia*
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:51 PM

Well, the Unknown Soldier was.

The article/quote is courtesy of Public Relations Office, Dept of National Defence. Hence, I suppose, the propoganda . Glad you pointed this out, LH, and thanks for posting your historical insights too.

The "gave their lives for peace and freedom in Canada" bit did sound more than just a tad "off" to me as well, but I was willing to let it go because I was seeing the Unknown Soldier as a "gift". And with a gift, it's the thought that counts. So, what were the thoughts, the intentions of the 116,000 Canadians who died in active service, in international conflict during the last century?

Or, rather, what were they trained to believe they were dying for??

I can only guess at that, as I have never served in the military. Still, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt, and to be honoured for living and dying with integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 04:32 PM

Oh, they should be honoured, Daylia, no question about that, as should all brave soldiers. I think that their thoughts were probably similar to the thoughts in the minds of all the young soldiers who trooped off to war for the fighting nations in WWI.

My grandmother was a young woman living in Vienna when WWI broke out. She said that the whole country was filled with an absolute avalanche of patriotic fervour at the time. People poured out into the city streets to cheer the young Austrian soldiers who were marching off to war. They showered them with flowers, tears, embraces, and cheers. They waved flags. She said it was like the most giant celebration. There didn't appear to be one ordinary person in Austria-Hungary who did not believe that the war was being fought for the noblest of reasons, to defeat the Serbian rebellion, for defence of the homeland against the Russians and Italians, and against other enemies who had to be defeated...and would be...and in short order......for the sake of peace, freedom, liberty, and national survival!

This was the mood prevalent among Austro-Hungarians, French, Germans, Russians, Serbs, Italians, and British soldiers and civilians...and later among Americans when they belatedly went off to war as well.

Young men have a number of reasons for willingly serving in a war and risking their lives.

1. normal patriotism
2. they want to "do their bit" (like the others)
3. they want to challenge the odds and become "men" (gain self-respect and self-confidence and maybe even some glory)
4. they want to "save their country" from a foreign threat and "protect their homes and families"
5. they don't want to be seen as cowards or wimps
6. they figure it will be an exciting adventure
7. it gives them something to do
8. it's a job, you get paid, you get a uniform and training, and you get to handle advanced weaponry...all this is pretty impressive to a boy just coming out of his adolescence
9. it's your "duty" to serve your country
10. for some, it becomes a professional military career...if there is a family tradition of doing that, then that will be a very strong influence.

Governments know this, and they use all of the above factors to motivate the young to go out and slaughter one another.

In my grandmother's case, her society lost that war. Their monarchy was destroyed and their nation sundered into fragments. Their economy was devastated. Their money became worthless. In the final year of the war people had gone beyond eating their pets and anything else they could scrounge, and were eating rats. In the light of that, it made a mockery of the innocent patriotic fervour of 1914.

People in the victorious nations tend to be shielded from the sort of giant wake-up call that hits people in the defeated nations after a war, and it's easy for them to later believe grandiose propaganda that tells them stuff like..."If it wasn't for---------(whatever)--------you'd all be speaking German!"...and...."our boys died so you could live in peace and freedom".

I note that no population in any conquered country anywhere in modern times has changed their native language following a defeat in a major war.... ;-D Nor has peace ever been anything but temporary...

As for freedom, it's a relative thing. Some are indeed freer than others. Most are not as free as they might honestly wish to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Best Canadian ever
From: number 6
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:21 PM

"Well, neither John Prine nor Jesus were Canadians"

Bee ... never said they were (did I?) ... the quote was an analogy to LH's statement ... "Not one Canadian soldier died at Vimy Ridge to preserve your freedom or mine"

Yes LH .... you further interpreted my analogy in your following statement "but I don't think of his death as a "ransom" for other people's sins"

biLL