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Subject: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Marion Date: 18 Oct 00 - 10:17 PM There's a popular Advent hymn to a stately, minor key melody that goes "O come O come Emmanuel, and ransom captive Israel, that mourns in lonely exile here, until the Son of God appear. Rejoice, rejoice! Emmanuel shall come to thee, O Israel." According to my hymnbook it's a translation of a 12th century Latin hymn. Does anyone know how to put their hands on the Latin lyrics (even one verse)? That would add a lot of class to our Christmas pageant, I think. Thanks, Marion See Related Thread (click) |
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Subject: Lyr Add: VENI, VENI EMMANUEL / O COME, O COME, ... From: Alice Date: 18 Oct 00 - 10:40 PM From the Saint Gregory Hymnal and Catholic Choir Book: © 1920, Nicola A. Montani, Philadelphia, PA.
VENI, VENI EMMANUEL
Veni, Veni Emmanuel!
Gaude, Gaude,
Veni, O Jesse Virgula!
Gaude, Gaude,
Veni, veni O Oriens!
Gaude, Gaude,
Veni Clavis Davidica!
Gaude, Gaude,
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 18 Oct 00 - 10:49 PM To which may be added:
Veni, O Sapientia,
Veni, veni, Adonai,
Veni, veni, Rex Gentium, |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Escamillo Date: 18 Oct 00 - 10:50 PM Our group has sung this hymn with music of Zoltan Kodaly for three voices. If someone is interested, I can send a MIDI. It is really beautiful. The lyrics ALice posted is the same as I have. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Haruo Date: 18 Oct 00 - 11:22 PM Here is the version (only 3 stanzas) in The Cyber Hymnal. In a note to the Esperanto version in my online hymnal I wrote: Veni Emmanuel is based on the "O Antiphons", a set of seven short prayers used in Roman Catholicism as antiphons during the vespers services from the 17th to the 23rd of December, inclusive. Each antiphon, after the introductory "O", addresses Christ by some title from the Hebrew Scriptures, and prays that He may come to His Israel. The last antiphon, on the 23rd, corresponds to the first stanza of the hymn. [...] in the original the first letters of the Titles of Christ, read in reverse, spell ERO CRAS, i.e. "I'll be there tomorrow" in Latin—an acrostic feature that, sadly, neither the Esperanto version by Beveridge nor the English by Neale attempts to preserve. (The Latin titles are "Emmanuel", "Rex (Gentium)", "Oriens", "Clavis David", "Radix Jesse", "Adonai" and "Sapientia".) The O Antiphons arose in the 7th-9th centuries. The hymn is probably not that ancient, at least not with the present tune; however, there are some Catholics who assert that the hymn is almost contemporaneous with the antiphons. Liland Christmas hymns and carols in Esperanto PS I'm pretty sure "Radix [Jesse]" is the original and "Virgula" a later substitution; cf. the Latin text "Flos de Radice Jesse" which is more or less equivalent to "Lo, how a Rose e'er blooming" (Es ist ein' Ros' entsprungen) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: GUEST Date: 19 Oct 00 - 12:38 PM For the O-antiphons from which the metrical Latin hymn derives, click here |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Haruo Date: 19 Oct 00 - 04:17 PM Escamillo, I'd love to have MIDI of the Kodaly music you used. The only piece of his I've ever used is "When Great King David, sorely afflicted" (my translation from the Esperanto) from Psalmus Hungaricus, which I sang in English, Esperanto and Hungarian for Special Music one time. Send it here lilandbr@scn.org (and if for any reason that doesn't work, use the same address @hotmail.com. A groysn dank! GUEST, thanks for the link; like Joe of last December, I have yet to figure out chant notation like that, but my appetite to learn is whetted. Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Marion Date: 19 Oct 00 - 11:05 PM Thanks very much! I am, as always, in awe of what a great resource the Mudcat community is. Marion |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) Date: 20 Oct 00 - 07:47 PM According to The Hymnal 1940 Companion, Church Pension Fund, New York, 1949, p. 3, "Th[e] metrical form firt appeard in the appendix to Psalterium Cantionum Catholicarum,, Cologne, 1710." According to the same source, the melody, "Veni Emmanuel... appears to be a cento of several Kyrie melodies made by Thomas Helmore to accompany [John Mason] Neale's text in the musical edition of the Hymnal Noted, 1854. In that work he states that it is from a French Missal in te National Library at Lisbon, Portugal, but no identical melody has been found there." This source is over 50 years old now, so maybe some earlier witnesses to the melody and to the metrical version of the text have been discovered since it was published. This same edition of the Hymnal Companion failed to identify the Bunting collection as the source of the melody Deirdre (though later editions did make this identification) so it is certainly not an infallible source. T. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Escamillo Date: 24 Oct 00 - 05:22 AM Sent MIDIs for Kodaly's version to Liland and Joe Offer. If anybody else is interested, please let me know. Music sheet (copy) is available too. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: GUEST Date: 26 Oct 00 - 09:54 AM The Hymnal 1982 Companion citing a 1966 article in The Musical Times, states that the melody has been found in a 15th-century manuscript. Also according to the Hymnal 1982 Companion the earliest known appearance of the metrical Latin words (as distinguished from the much older antiphons) remains at 1710. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: GUEST,penguin Date: 26 Oct 00 - 08:08 PM This is kinda random, but the Portugese version of this song is also really lovely. It might be interesting to sing both the Latin and the Portugese versions, because Portugese is one of the Romance languages. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Haruo Date: 26 Oct 00 - 10:57 PM Could you post (or link to) the Português text? Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Haruo Date: 18 Dec 00 - 01:48 AM Those who like "O Come, O Come Emmanuel" (or its Latin original, "Veni, veni Emmanuel") I invite to read my post concerning the O Antiphons that lie behind the hymn. This is the week these antiphons are on the Vespers menu. Liland |
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Subject: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Dec 00 - 02:12 AM I would have sworn this was Gregorian Chant, going back all the way to Pope St. Gregory the Great, who died in 604. One source I have says that ain't so, that it comes from the middle of the 19th century. I belive contradictory information from the Shorter New Oxford Book of Carols: The text is based on the series of `O' antiphons sung at vespers on the days leading up to Christmas. The tune was first published by Helmore and Neale in 1854 from a lost source, and it is not known whether they found it set to this text. Suspicions that it might have been a Victorian invention were removed in the 1960s when Dr Mary Berry discovered a two-voice version (1), though with a different text, in a processional which was probably copied for a French nunnery.So, it's probably old, but maybe not old enough to have first appeared in Gregorian notation. Here are some notes from the Oxford book:
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: Haruo Date: 18 Dec 00 - 02:45 AM The earliest reference to the O Antiphons that I've seen cited (and of course I'm not in a position to verify the citation) is from Boethius (c. 500 AD); but that's the antiphons, not the hymn. The hymn is clearly dependent on the antiphons, ergo later. At one time some thought Neale had made the tune up out of whole cloth (as he did, e.g., in the case of the text of Good King Wenceslas), but as the SNOBC says, this is no longer a tenable conjecture for O come, O come Emmanuel. Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: GUEST,dan evergreen Date: 18 Dec 00 - 12:59 PM Love this thread. But, hey, how 'bout some chords? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: GUEST,T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) Date: 18 Dec 00 - 03:14 PM I checked the Boethius cite, years ago, and I remember agreeing that the case for the dependence of one text on the other was strong. If I recall properly, it involved the words "suaviter disponens omnia". But in any case I know of no way to decide, without further data, whether Boethius was copying an existing antiphon. Perhaps whoever wrote the antiphon text cribbed the words from Boethius. T. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin for O Come O Come Emmanuel From: GUEST,Okiemockbird Date: 18 Dec 00 - 03:29 PM After further research I have found reason to believe that the antiphon "O Sapientia" and the sentence from Boethius may not depend on each other, but may each be derived independently from a verse in a book known as the Wisdom of Solomon. T. |
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Subject: Chords Add: O COME O COME EMMANUEL From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Dec 00 - 05:50 PM Hi, Dan - here's what Rise Up Singing has for chords: ...and I have no idea what they mean by "2nd."Em G Am D G / G C Am EmBm Em / -Joe Offer, not a guitarist- |
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