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Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words

DigiTrad:
DANNY BOY
DANNY BOY (2)
DANNY BOY, REST IN PIECES
LONDON DERRIERE
LONDONDERRY AIR

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Tattie Bogle 13 Jul 11 - 10:37 AM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Jul 11 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,henryp 13 Jul 11 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,Seonaid 13 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM
GUEST,julia L 13 Jul 11 - 09:48 PM
MartinRyan 14 Jul 11 - 04:03 AM
MartinRyan 14 Jul 11 - 04:11 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Jul 11 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,An Buachaill Caol Dubh 14 Jul 11 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,An Buachaill Caol Dubh 14 Jul 11 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,Dale D. 13 Sep 11 - 07:53 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 11 - 07:59 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 11 - 08:02 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 11 - 08:11 PM
GUEST 21 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM
MartinRyan 21 Sep 11 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,Slartibartfast 03 Feb 12 - 11:28 AM
Lighter 03 Feb 12 - 12:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Feb 12 - 12:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Feb 12 - 12:35 PM
Lighter 04 Feb 12 - 02:15 PM
Tattie Bogle 04 Feb 12 - 05:24 PM
Don Firth 04 Feb 12 - 05:57 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 17 - 06:12 AM
GUEST,Desi C 20 Jun 17 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 20 Jun 17 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,DK 21 Jun 17 - 01:09 AM
Lighter 21 Jun 17 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,Les Fuller?Kent 12 May 19 - 07:47 AM
Lighter 15 Sep 19 - 09:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 10:37 AM

I posted this other set of words in English a while back on another thread:
(They appear, with the tune notated and "arranged by H.A.C.", in a pretty old News Chronicle Song Book - no date on it but full score edition cost 2s6d, or words only version 6d!)

LONDONDERRY AIR (IN DERRY VALE)
W.G.Rothery                         Tune: Londonderry Air

In Derry Vale, beside the singing river,
So oft I strayed, ah, many years ago,
And culled at morn the golden daffodillies
That came with Spring to set the world aglow.

Oh, Derry Vale, my thoughts are ever turning
To your broad stream and fairy-circled lea,
For your green isles my exiled heart is turning,
So far awa-a-ay acro-oss the-e sea.

In Derry Vale, amid the Foyle's dark waters,
The salmon leap above the surging weir,
The seabirds call – I still can hear them calling
In night's long dreams of tho-o-ose so dear.

Oh, tarrying years, fly faster, ever faster,
I long to see the vale belov'd so well,
I long to know that I am not forgotten,
And there at ho-o-ome in pe-eace to-o dwell.

And a glut of other info here (largely in concordance with what's been said above):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry_Air

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 11:10 AM

Nice word, Tattie. Thanks for posting.

I suggest that "For your green isles my exiled heart is turning" should be "To your green isles..."

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 04:24 PM

For your green isles my exiled heart is yearning

See link above.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,Seonaid
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM

There's also a gagworthy set of lyrics called "Acushla Mine"...

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,julia L
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 09:48 PM

I have over 24 sets of lyrics to this melody, with more surfacing all the time. I had not one, but two elderly ladies sing me their (different) summer camp songs which had been written to this tune. I think it is perhaps the very moving melody that is perennially appealing and transcends the lyrics, maudlin or not.

So, are there Gaelic words and if so could someone please post them?

best- julia

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 04:03 AM

Click here for a choral rendition on Youtube of "Maidin i mBéara", the Irish language set of lyrics to which reference is made (several times) in the thread. It was certainly taught in schools in my day (50 - 60 years ago) and may well still be. I have very occasionally heard it sung solo at singing sessions in Ireland - always by people of my generation who, I suspect, remember it from school.

A quick search hasn't produced a full set of lyrics - I'll get back to it later.

Regards

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 04:11 AM

In fact, there's a set - where else? - on Mudcat already.

Click here.

Looks like it needs some tidying up as regards accents.

Regards

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 10:34 AM

Thanks, Henry. "turning" rhymes with "yearning"

Julia - 24 sets of words. I had no idea.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 11:27 AM

(This will probably appear as "GUEST, An Buachaill Caol Dubh" -often called simply "ABCD"! - since I see there have been some problems with Membership &c)

Further to the post on 11th July 2011 regarding John McCormack's recordings of words to this air, he recorded both "O Mary Dear" in the 1930s, with Edwin Schneider at the piano, and much earlier, I'd guess around the time of the Great War, "Would God I were the tender apple-blossom/That floats and falls from off yon twisted bough..." (words by Kathleen Tynan; orchestral accompaniment). I have the sheet-music for "O Mary Dear", and the words are by McCormack himself.

Incidentally, if we're wondering about an original name for the city on the banks of Lough Foyle, there's a good argumaent for its being "Doire Colm Cille", the oak-grove of Saint Colmcille (i.e. Columba).

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 11:30 AM

Further, the words to "In Derry fair, beside the singing river" are by one W G Rothery (?"Willaim George"), whose name I've often seen as the translator of European folk-songs (or, at least, one who made versions in English which can be sung to the origianl airs).

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,Dale D.
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:53 PM

I'll try to post the Irish words to Maidin i mBéarra here, and see if the fadas show up. With my method, they do on every other site....

Maidin i mBéarra
Osborn ó hAmheirgin (1872-1950) (copied from a book, sorry I didn't get the title)

Is é mo chaoi gan mise maidin aerach
Amuigh i mBéarra im' sheasamh ar an trá,
Is guth na n-éan 'om' tharraing thar na sléibhte cois na farraige
Go Céeim an Aitinn mar a mbíonn mo ghrá.

Is obann aoibhinn aitseasach do léimfinn,
Do righfinn saor ó ana-broid an tláis,
Do thabharfainn droim le scamallaibh an tsaoil seo,
Dá bhfaighinn mo léirdhóthain d'amharc ar mo chaoimhshearc bhán.

Is é mo dhíth bheith ceangailte go faonlag,
Is neart mo chléibh á thachtadh anseo sa tsráid,
An fhaid tá réim na habhann agus gaoth ghlan na farraige
Ag glaoch is ag gairmar an gcroí so im' lar.

Is milis bríobhar leathanbhog an t-aer ann,
Is gile ón ngréin go fairsing ar an mbán
Is ochón, a rí-bhean bhanúil na gcraobhfholt,
Gan sinn-ne araon i measc an aitinn mar do bhímis tráth!


And for the record, I am looking for a translation.

Dale D.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:59 PM

For those interested in how I get the fadas to show up without using HTML, it's easy.

Hold down the ALT key and enter a three-digit number on the numeric keypad. (Sorry, I guess you can't do this on a laptop.) The numbers for the fadas are as follows:

ALT + 130 = é
ALT + 160 = á
ALT + 161 = í
ALT + 162 = ó
ALT + 163 = ú
ALT + 144 = É

The Capital E is the only character I found in the ALT key coding to give a fada mark to. If you're doing a last name, just use the lower case O and it should work okay. Any other capitals needed, I'm not sure what to tell you, but these are a start....

Dale d.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:02 PM

Oops! Just caught one error! I tried to proof it well, but missed on....

On the fourth line the second word is Céim -- the second "e" (the one without the fada)is extraneous.

Sorry!

Dale D.

Slán!

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:11 PM

One more correction....

fourth line in the third stanza:
the end should read "an gcroí seo im' lár." sorry, I dropped an "e" in "seo"....

Dale d.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM

I succeeded in finding an English translation to the lyrics. Is anyone else interested?

Dale D.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:49 PM

We're always interested! ;>)>

Regards

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,Slartibartfast
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 11:28 AM

John McCormack never recorded it? I HAVE A RECORDING OF JOHN MCCORMACK SINGING IT!
The melody undoubtedly Irish, and probably predates James VI/James I.
The strange thing about the melody is that it doesn't fit the traditional Irish meter, 3/4 or 6/8. One theory, put forward by Anne G Gilchrist in "English Folk Dance and Song Society Journal" (Dec 1932, p 115) is that Miss Ross mistranscribed it - and indeed if certain prolonged notes are shortened to allow it to be played in 6/8 time, it bears some resemblance to both "The Colleen Rue" and "An Beanasal Og".

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 12:30 PM

Cited here by the late Bruce Olson long ago, and still - I'd think - the standard source of information:

http://www.standingstones.com/dannyboy.html

Bottom line: "Londonderry Air" is plausibly a descendant or variant of an older melody known as "The Young Man's Dream."

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 12:32 PM

When it comes to the name of the tune, the bottom line surely is that calling it "the Derry Air" invites the listener to be aware of an unfortunate pun.

Sung simply, without exaggerated emotion, there's nothing particularly maudlin about the words. Unfortunately it rarely gets sung simply.

The best version perhaps is the simplified cod one where you just sing "Oh Danny Boy, Oh Danny Danny Danny Boy" throughout - in which case exaggerated emotion is de rigeur.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 12:35 PM

There's a song about that unfortunate pun in the Digital Tradition - London Derriere

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 02:15 PM

The second stanza is pretty maudlin, IMO: "When you come back, I'm likely to be dead. Pray over my grave in that case."

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 05:24 PM

McGrath, when I was a student at The London Hospital, Whitechapel (since become ROYAL London, of course!) we did in fact call our Christmas show " The London Derriere"! And there's that line in "The Town I Loved so well" that you have to be awfully careful about how you sing it - "There was music there in the Derry air": I usually do a rather forced glottal stop between the y and the a!

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 05:57 PM

London derriere?

(sorry!)

Don Firth

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 06:12 AM

John McCormack was indeed a devout Catholic and an Irish Nationalist but his Father Andrew was a Scot! John was the Grandson of 3 Presbyterians of Scottish ancestry; not surprisingly he could bear prejudice of any kind. He recorded the Londonderry Air under the title 'Oh Mary Dear' arranged by Edwin Schneider and the lyrics as mentioned above are John's own and they probably are earlier than the popular Danny Boy version.

Oh Mary dear, a cruel fate has parted us.
I'll hide my grief, e'en though my heart should break.
Farewell my love, may God be always with you.
I love you so, I'd die for your dear sake.
But you'll come back to me my sad heart whispers.
You'll come with summer's flowers or winter's snow,
But I'll be there to wait if God should spare me.
And with the years, my love shall deeper, greater, grow.

Oh Mary dear, the years are lone and dreary,
And yet you come not back my soul to cheer.
My eyes grow dim, my path of life's near ended.
When death shall come, in spirit, Love, be near.
Remember then, my soul's deep adoration.
Shed one sad tear for all the world to see.
Breath one short prayer, and I shall know you love me.
And still be waiting, Mary, when you come to me.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 20 Jun 17 - 06:59 AM

I believe I'm right in saying there were NO original words, it was a tune noted down by an English lady and later there was a competition to put lyrics to it, what we now know as Danny boy the winner. B y the way the Original title would NOT have been Londonderry Air but The Derry air as London prefix did not exist then

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 20 Jun 17 - 07:17 AM

Depends on what you mean by "then". Londonderry was applied when it was first published.

Regards

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,DK
Date: 21 Jun 17 - 01:09 AM

Would everybody contributing anything other than puns to this thread please check the Standing Stones website above, about nine posts ago. As Lighter said, it's still the standard reference. As far as the name Londonderry is concerned, it is complicated by sectarian bigotry and lack of attention to history. When the 'Flight of the Earls' occurred in 1607 it left large tracts of land forfeit to the crown and the crown then coerced the London companies to fund
and carry out the colonisation which became known as the Ulster Plantation. The companies - Draper's, Goldsmith's, Mercer's, etc., - then changed the name of the area to the County of Londonderry. However, it had NOT previously been County Derry, it was the County of Coleraine since that town was for many years more important than Derry.
The modern Derry/Londonderry controversy is complete nonsense, when I was a boy in Co. Antrim a very long time ago, everybody whatever their religion called both the city and county 'Derry,' we knew the official name but it was hardly ever used. It is ironical that the hardline Protestants who like the 'London' prefix have, or used to have parade banners which reference Derry, Aughrim and the Boyne, and the Orange songbook contains the line 'we'll guard old Derry's walls.'

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: Lighter
Date: 21 Jun 17 - 07:30 AM

Thanks for the info on Derry, DK. There's another, even more significant discussion by Brian Audley called "The Provenance of the Londonderry Air," published in the Journal of the Royal Musical Association in 2000.

Audley finds that

1. there's no record of a tune that is *clearly* the "Londonderry Air" before it was noted by Jane Ross in 1854,

2. but the shape of the air relates it to earlier melodies such as "Castle Hyde" and "The Young Man's Dream" (though only the latter bears any readily audible resemblance to it - and even that isn't clearly "the same"); so there's no doubt that the "Air" has traditional roots, no matter who adapted it.

Michael Robinson has posted Irish words (of 1831 or earlier) to "The Young Man's Dream":

http://www.standingstones.com/aisling.html

There seem to have been several English translations.

3. Very interestingly, Sam Henry collected a tune that *is* an obvious (if less polished) variant of the "Londonderry Air" from the itinerant whistle-player Simon O'Doherty of Co. Antrim in 1934. O'Doherty claimed to have learned the tune from his grandfather, who had been a noted piper in Donegal. O'Doherty called it "The Riverside," which he said was the name of a song (which he'd unfortunately forgotten) sung by his mother.

Audley observes that the 18th century song in English, "The Young Man's Dream," was set "by a murm'ring river's side." Edward Bunting collected several versions, and published the one played by the harper Dennis Hempson of Magilligan, Co. Derry in 1792. None is as graceful as the "Air," however.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: GUEST,Les Fuller?Kent
Date: 12 May 19 - 07:47 AM

We sang this at school (London) in the 1950s from a book called The National Songbook (Songs from the nations of the UK). I don`t know whether it was translated from the Irish or if they were avoiding Irish Nationlism, but I prefer it to Danny Boy. We could do with reviving that concept of a shared heritage, but I fear it might deprive fashionable con singers of their incomes.

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Subject: RE: Londonderry Air's original (Gaelic?) words
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 09:33 AM

What seem to be newly created lyrics to the air are briefly sung in the 1941 movie bio of Lord Nelson and Lady Hamilton, "That Hamilton Woman."

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