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Jesus' Penis
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Mooh Date: 05 Nov 00 - 11:26 AM Having devoted the last 1/2 hour of my life to reading this thread and deciding the debate has been exhausted, or at least isn't likely to attract significant new or enlightened thought (but please prove me wrong), herewith my two cents. Christ was equiped with all the moving parts of the average male of humankind. Whether he used those parts carnally does not matter to my faith as a Christian. Temptation was one of his major teachings so it would be logical that he had and used his penis. The method God used to impregnate Jesus' mother doesn't really matter to my faith, but did the Holy Spirit enter as sperm, flesh, or some other place along the line of miraculous conception is a question for people who have more time on their hands than me, who should I expect think about spending at least equal time on the gospels. The subject doesn't offend me in the least, as it has an academic element, and it does amuse me. Frankly, just as I see Christ as the first great socialist (hey, there's another thread...), I see him as having a sense of humour. How could he not if he was a man? Finally, I've never found anyone in Mudcatland trying to convert anyone else or foisting their views on others. It's virtually impossible as this is a virtual place. Personal faith can hardly offend before it violates nature. Is there any hidden meaning in my waiting 'till Sunday to post here? Peace. Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Troll Date: 04 Nov 00 - 11:49 PM Difference between a Jewish Mother and an Italian Mother. The 18-year-old daughter stays out until four o'clock in the morning. The Jewish Mother crys "You're going to kill me!" The Italian Mother crys " I'm gonna kill you!" troll |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Nov 00 - 11:38 PM I think Lenny said the difference between a Jewish girl and a schikse is that the gentile girl "wouldn't let you touch it, but the Jewish girl would let you touch it....your own, that is." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Troll Date: 04 Nov 00 - 11:31 PM Amos, the laying on of hands is one thing but what you are suggesting...I mean a good Jewish boy would NEVER...well not in PUBLIC anyway...I mean the tsurrus to the family... well, it just wouldn't happen, thats all. Better he should get married and stop all this schlepping around the country with these fishermen and tax collectors like a schnorer and worrying his poor mother half to death and come home and go to work with his father in the carpentry shop. troll...who could go on in this vein for hours. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Amos Date: 04 Nov 00 - 11:15 PM Well, Spaw, look at it this way --- we know what he did with the laying on of hands.... so just IMAGINE.... |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Nov 00 - 10:49 PM Oh now c'mon man.......Wait a freakin' minute.....universal quest for the nature of god?????.........Are you huffin' me? Gimmee a break........ Albert Schweitzer did an excellent work back in the mid 50's called "A Quest for Historical Jesus" and it was an interesting exercise in establishing that this man did exist. This thread is an amateurish attempt to figure out if the lad had a dick. Not at all the same thing and I'm curious as to how we can learn of the nature of god through an examination of JC's tool! Let's try not to read too much into it huh? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: GUEST,dtking Date: 04 Nov 00 - 10:00 PM Well, this was a fascinating thread. I would have ignored it, except for the 99 replies. Some of them are thoughtful, curteous and entertaining. The topic may be trivial or offensive to some, but at its core is the universal quest for clues to the nature of god. dtk |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: GUEST,Jon Date: 04 Nov 00 - 08:00 PM Thanks for the civil post, Ted, but you're belaboring the obvious- what are any of the items on this forum but the opinion of the person that posts them? Unless you're suggesting that certain individuals hear speak with God's authority? I'll work on my presentation skills for next time- I'm sure that the Hallelujah Chorus will pick up again before too long. I count religion but a childish toy, And hold there is no sin but ignorance. -Christopher Marlowe (ca. 1589) Yours in Christ. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 04 Nov 00 - 06:28 PM It is worth noting, Jon, that your opinion that of the hundreds millions religious people in the world (and of their respective religions) are followers of superstitious magic, is very simply, your opinion--doubtless, you have your reasons for believing such a thing, but it isn't implicitly true, and when you carry on the way you are, you seem to be saying that nearly everyone in the world is wrong but you-- I think that you probably will need a more graceful manner, and a more organized presentation, if you want to get anywhere with your ideas--
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: mousethief Date: 04 Nov 00 - 02:13 PM Jon, I don't make deals with bullies. Further, I challenge you to point me to a thread where Praise was proselytizing rather than just talking about her faith. If you are an honest man, you will stop insulting religion by calling it "superstitious magic" or other such epithets. It's up to you to show us just how honorable you are. It's not up to us. You said, "I do denigrate vulgar display, questionable taste, and persistance in a behaviour others have said is offensive to them." You didn't say anything about how the offender was being treated, or what his/her opinions were about those he was offending. If you continue being offensive, you are nothing but a hypocrite. People who are only nice to people who are nice to them, or whose opinions they approve of, aren't honorable, they're just wily. Again, my statement must stand: the Christians here have dished out far less abuse than they have received. If you don't like that, it's time for you to do something about it: namely, stop being abusive. If you find any Christians being abusive, by all means let me know. I'll chew them out too. Civility is not an option if a community is to thrive. It is a necessity.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: little john cameron Date: 04 Nov 00 - 02:04 PM JON, read whit ye jist said.Troll,yere richt on. ljc |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Troll Date: 04 Nov 00 - 01:57 PM Guest Jon. Your posting merely proves my point. troll |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: GUEST,Jon Date: 04 Nov 00 - 01:53 PM Wrong, Trollo!! Are you sitting on your brains? I've said this before, and I'll try one more time (this is in English, now. Make sure the simultaneous translater is on): I am NOT directing this only or specifically at Praise. Get it? She is one of a group. She has, however, chosen to elect herself as spokesperson for the MCCC (Mudact Christian Coalition) and as such, I suggested to the Mouse that he deal with her. OK? Oh, and you missed a bit on your left hemisphere- try wiping again, maybe with both hands? |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 04 Nov 00 - 04:20 AM I am just surprised that no one has posted song lyrics-- |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: katlaughing Date: 04 Nov 00 - 02:21 AM Two highly recommended books, "The Secret Doctrines of Jesus" and "The Mystical Life of Jesus." Both can usually be found at the used books sites, such as Bibliofind. The author is H. Spencer Lewis. The were written in the 20's or 30's, can't remember exact date, so the vernacular is a little formal and odd, but they shed a lot of light, IMO, on some of the things brought up in this thread. kat |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Troll Date: 03 Nov 00 - 10:25 PM Moral standards that are open to compromise are not moral standards at all. They are simply expedients. this lack of true moral standards suggests a real need for a system of ethics such as are found in religion, philosophy, and the like. I do not know why, Guest Jon, you seem to have such a problem with Praise. I have personally found her to be a very warm and caring woman. I have never seen her force her aid on anyone who did not want it but to those who ask it, she gives unstintingly of her time. Her faith is who she is. The few times that I have seen someone take offense at something she has said, she has apologized and tried to explain why she said it. Obviously, there is a history here of which I am unaware.Perhaps if you stated plainly what you have against Praise, the rest of us might be a little more understanding of your position. Or you can continue on your present course. It's really up to you. troll |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: little john cameron Date: 03 Nov 00 - 08:40 PM The wis a braw pint ah,though a had tae leave there tae as an argyment stertit there as weel,aboot whit side o the road ye walk if ye are LEADIN a horse an cairt.Seems ye cannae go oneywhere withoot a barney. Ah mentioned H.B.H.G. Book awready LH but as ah said then it is jist an interestin book. "As far as ah'm concerned"the ane wi the answers is The Grail Message"IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH"ah telt ye aboot it afore.Yese'll hae tae find it yersels as ah dinnae mind the url.It'll be on yer search engines nae doot. Hi Tinker,the early Celtic church wis different aw thegither fae the Roman ane.When the High Heid Yins in the Roman church decided that they wid tak ower the show an that ye had tae believe them or ye wid be set on fire or tortured that wis when the ball wis up on the roof. ljc |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Tinker Date: 03 Nov 00 - 07:34 PM Little Hawk, the other may well be Bloodline of the Holy Grail, by Laurence Gardner which I gave a web adddress to above. Sorry MT but it's about 500 pages of footnoted history. It's very involved but I did read all of it a few years ago.I found it a little much to swallow whole, but it raises some interesting questions. As a female Christian I've a lot less faith in the infalibility of the early church fathers to decide conclusively what is "appropriate" and "acceptable". Those wonderful Irish folks infact were still ordaining women as priest well into the 6th century. And Brigid was a Bishop. But there's just enough message and light to keep me journeying and digging out the buried bits of past now and then.... Tinker |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Nov 00 - 07:33 PM Mouse, I haven't singled Christianity out. Its only one of the many forms of superstitious magic a.k.a.'religion' practised around the globe. Christianity is no better nor worse than the others. But I take your point as to being put on notice. Tell you what- let's try a compromise. Praise has been told repeatedly over many months by many people that they object to her witnessing & such. You get her to pack it in, & I will, too. Deal? Cheers. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: mousethief Date: 03 Nov 00 - 06:46 PM Thank you, LH. Actually my reason for not reading those books is that I trust the people who compiled the NT and who defined Xianity in its early days to have done a good job, so I don't think I'm likely to believe them, and I have enough things to read without delving into long-solved debates (we're talking centuries here) which brighter minds than mine (i know, not hard) have already wrestled with. But if you were over at my house and we were drinking wine (i dislike beer) together and pulled it out and said, "read this" and the passage was short enough, I certainly would. Guest Jon, do you really not think you will ruffle feathers by calling Christianity "superstitious magic"? Or that it's not offensive and insulting? You say you denigrate persistence in offensive behavior; yours is offensive. Now that you've been told, you will either stop doing it, or give the lie to your stated morals. Moonjen: Thanks for your concern on our behalf. But really, we get this sort of "Jesus' Penis" thing all the time, and while it's offensive and obnoxious, most of us don't lose too much sleep over it. This is nothing compared to the "GUEST" on the other thread who said she wished I had been aborted. Now THAT is troublesome. Everybody have a great weekend, and DO try to be civil.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Nov 00 - 06:36 PM Alex - I thoroughly appreciate your comments above in your 03-Nov-00 - 12:01 PM posting. Very well said. I originally expected this thread to possibly be somewhat disrespectful, and took a few days before I investigated it, but actually I think it's mostly been very good. BTW, there are some very interesting alternate sources (to the Bible) which suggest that Jesus: a) fell in love once, and considered marriage, but decided against it for various reasons having to do with his spiritual work (see: The Aquarian Gospel of Christ - by Levi) b) actually did marry Mary Magdalene and had children by her (I can't give you a title on that...maybe ask Little John Cameron about it...I bet he knows) Either of those may in fact be the true story. The books in question are entirely serious, and deeply respectful of Christ and of his Gospel in every way, although they differ in some areas from the commonly accepted version of his life. I think that a reading of them would only deepen and confirm a Christian's faith, regardless of whether or not the premises set forth in them were accepted or not by the reader. This assuming that the reader in question is not deathly afraid of even considering a new wrinkle on an old story. Such a person is basically unreachable, since he figures he ALREADY knows it all. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Nov 00 - 06:33 PM Nothing of the kind, Jenny. I stated at least once above I have nothing whatsoever against practitioners of any type of superstitious magic,Christianity included. I do denigrate vulgar display, questionable taste, and persistance in a behaviour others have said is offensive to them. Cheers. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: bbelle Date: 03 Nov 00 - 06:07 PM anna ... I was referring to the original intent of the thread, which was most certainly to denigrate those who have a strong belief in Christianity. One has only to read the posts of Guest,Jon to know that. Had a mudcatter asked the question, I believe the title would have been more respectful. Jenny |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Troll Date: 03 Nov 00 - 06:06 PM No, Greg. It went where I wanted it to go. I was just answering Guest Jon's post to me. In kind. troll |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: mousethief Date: 03 Nov 00 - 05:50 PM Why wouldn't he have a belly-button? Maybe you're mistaking him with Adam.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Nov 00 - 05:28 PM (Shamefully admitting not having read the whole thread but wishing to add a thought) - aah, but did he have a BELLY-BUTTON? |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Greg F. Date: 03 Nov 00 - 04:45 PM Troll, I think you meant that last post to go HERE, didn't you? Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: annamill Date: 03 Nov 00 - 04:37 PM Moonjen, did you read all the postings? No one attacked anyone's religion, there are just questions and curiosities. Agreed some of the postings are a bit childish, but we ignore those, right. Basically, this is an interesting thread and when I get home, if I'm not wiped, I'm going to explore those links. I mean, you know Moses and David was married and had children. We know almost nothing of Jesus's life before age 32 and death. I'm curious. Love, annamill |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: mousethief Date: 03 Nov 00 - 04:30 PM Troll, who are you answering and regarding what?
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Troll Date: 03 Nov 00 - 04:07 PM I learned that LAST week, Jon Boy, while you were in remedial breathing class. Next week we are going to take on drinking from a glass. Tryn to be on time for a change. troll |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: mousethief Date: 03 Nov 00 - 03:40 PM Ah, a conspiracy theory! This should juice up the thread!
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Tinker Date: 03 Nov 00 - 03:37 PM Annamill, You aren't the first to question and there are treatise out there of "complicated" scholarship and international best seller status which set out to explain that a) Jesus and Mary Magdeline were married. b) Had a daughter and two sons c) This lineage is the basis of the divine rite of Kings d) Arthurian Legends and the Holy Grail also come out of this quest. etc. etc. Oh,did I mention the conspiracy to keep this information out of public reach? I enjoy a good intellectual tangle, but this one is CONVOLUTED & COMPLICATED. If anyone has any interest you can find it here...
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/bookish.html |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: little john cameron Date: 03 Nov 00 - 02:33 PM Never a dull moment,eh? For those ye wha wid like tae inquire intae the subject o the "Big Yin" withoot stertin anither WAR hae a look here, http://www.freeweb.org/freeweb/newage/jesus.html?p
Noo regardless o beliefS,Christian or Otherwise this is very interesting. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Nov 00 - 02:30 PM Thanks for your insightful commentary, Mouse. Am I supposed to call YOU a name now? You forgot your cute little rebus, by the way. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: bbelle Date: 03 Nov 00 - 02:11 PM Personally, and this IS my personal opinion, I find the title of this thread offensive, and am embarrassed that I even ventured in. Having said that, I have obviously broken my vow to myself to not venture into any thread with trolling components. I am Jewish and find the title and original subject matter disrespectful towards my friends who do believe in Jesus. No matter what I think about "Christian" threads, this is disrespectful. And, I would expect the same support should someone attack my faith and feel confident it would be forthcoming. Alex ... as for educating yourself on the religious beliefs of others, I commend you for your thirst, however, mine are personal and I never feel the need to discuss or explain them. They are what they are. I'm sure others will be more than happy to assist you. Jenny |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: mousethief Date: 03 Nov 00 - 02:04 PM Is that what you were doing, GUEST Jon? Sure sounded to me like you were just being an asshole. Still does. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: annamill Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:59 PM I still love you Amos! You just put my thoughts into words. Thanks. Love, annamill |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:58 PM HAH! I'm surprised it took the armchair psychologists this long to level their bogus charges of mental instability to anyone who doesn't choose to philosophize or mitigate or excuse poor taste. LOL! Of course, no chance of their projecting their own psychoses on others, yes? Yo, Trollo! Talk about Big Diddly's middle school humor! Pretty pitiful attempt. Maybe this week someone can teach you to wipe your own butt. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Amos Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:52 PM Good or bad, sex sure is human. And given that he was on his thirties or later when he got nailed, Big J had the normal experiences of the flesh. That means he got erections annd was conscious of the DNA-driven electricity that starts snapping and popping around human bodies in the presence of certain signals. whether extremely subtle (such as telepathic links, minute glances, faint traces of chemistry or certain electronic wavelegths) pr gross (such as direct flirtation, suggestion, contact, etc.)
I don't think anyone who has grown up male has managed to stay unaware of these dynamics, and I think the whole question of cultural overlays defining what one "should" do in the presence of such stimuli should be omitted from the question as trivial and irrelevant. Some of the reasons: I doubt anyone could correctly and clearly describe the real cultural signals that a youth of his time and place and heritage would have been exposed to; although it is kind of fun to speculate on what it would have been like growing up over at Mary and Joe's place or places, learning to walk, discovering toilet training (how did they manage that?), learning to point when you pee, and learning where all the local paths, hidey-holes, good fort places, best trees and cute neighborhood similar-aged girls were. What do you reckon it would have been like at around eleven to thirteen to start to go through the boy-to-man transforms, voice, hair, balls and all, at the same time as you were beginning to notice your own forect path to the Infinite and All-Powerful of the whole Universe? Mary, who was in on the whole scheme, would probably have known better than to yell at him to stop talking to himself, it'll stunt your growth, and such like maternal responses. Joseph apparently got all his insight into the lad second hand, which he was obviously willing to do. So maybe he would occasionally slip into some kind of paternal archetype like, oh, telling th eboy he'd better not sass his Mom any more if he knew what was good for him. How do you handle that if you're only 13 or 14 or so and saddled with half-built muscles and a hot-line to God??? Interesting temptation, I imagine. (If my folks don't start treating me better I'll get them blasted! That's what I'll do!!) Or, conversely, did he spend his whole maturation endowed with a kind of otherworldly tranquility beyond all normal physical and cultural measure? Dunno. But given that he was made in the human form, there is no question, if we accept the premise, that we have to include erections, seminal fluid, sweat, spittle, and all the other concomitants of running a meat-based body around. Otherwise we are not being consistent to our own assertions -- in other words, just dicking around. A |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: The Shambles Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:46 PM In pre Viagra days, it brings a whole new concept to 'Stand up Stand up for Jesus'. Pumped full with irony.....
To be serious for a moment. Whether the 'Son of God' was intact I would not know. The historical Jesus undoubted was. But then again, if his rather unusual unusual, for those days, un-wed state is to be believed, it may account for why he was un-married. I suspect that this un-wed state was a little bit more of St Paul, the spin doctor. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:33 PM LJ....I think you may have |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: mousethief Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:23 PM I know you weren't trying to disparage Jesus, Annamill, but many have. I'm sorry if what I wrote made it sound like I was blaming you. Sex is good but it's not the only good, nor the highest. The historical record shows he was single. The religion he belonged to reserved sex for marriage. Hence, we believe he was celibate. Does this mean we think sex is bad? No, it does not. Indeed, it doesn't imply any opinion about sex one way or the other.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: annamill Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:17 PM Oh MT, I wasn't attempting to discredit Jesus, or casting aspersions upon his "manhood". To me he was just a man, and I'm just curious if he was like other men in his needs. He certainly died like a man with all the pain and agony any man would feel. Why wouldn't he have other manly feelings too? And, for goodness sakes, why do feel having sex would diminish him in any way? SEX IS GOOD! Love, annamill |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: little john cameron Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:12 PM Sounds guid LJ. Talkin aboot Colemans mustard,did ye know that they made their money aff the mustard that fowk never ate? There wis aye a big blob on the plate when aw the food wis gone. ljc |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Lonesome EJ Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:08 PM Little John,it sounds like your surgical efforts were much more successful than my attempts to remove my own appendix under a general anaesthetic.However,if I finally do succeed,I will marinate it,bread it,and send it to you by post with a bottle of Coleman's Mustard. |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: mousethief Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:07 PM The stuff about Mary Magdalene is 1. very recent, and 2. usually brought up by people attempting to discredit Jesus, or who have some other axe to grind. Any historical evidence we have indicates he was a single guy throughout his earthly life. Does this cast aspersions upon his "manhood"? That seems a very cynical and prejudicial view of singleness.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: little john cameron Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:05 PM Never heard o it Matt. Regardin the Big Yins marital status if ye can get yere hauns on the book"Holy Blood-Holy Grail" ye can unfold anither piece o the puzzle.Noo ah'm no endorsin the book, ah'm jist sayin it is very interestin. ljc |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: annamill Date: 03 Nov 00 - 12:57 PM With all due respect, and love, for my Christian friends, and having proved to my satisfaction That Jesus Christ had a penis, am I the only one who has other questions regarding his manhood?? (I tend to ignore flaming) I never heard anything about him being married that I can remember, though there were questions bandied about regarding Mary Magdelana weren't there? hmm, interesting thought. Never occurred to me before. He was a man though. I'm not playing or being facecious, just curious. Love, annamill |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: Matt_R Date: 03 Nov 00 - 12:54 PM LJC, daen't they ca' it a "pego" up in Caledonia? |
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Subject: RE: Jesus' Penis From: little john cameron Date: 03 Nov 00 - 12:51 PM Ah dinnae hae clue Alex,as ah said ah never wrote it.Mah Willie is workin fine,ta very much. ljc |
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