BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: HuwG
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:22 PM

Oddly, the Welsh word, "moron" means "carrots", plural. A single carrot is "moronen" (n.f.).

This usage is not exactly standard, but logical in a country sense. One eats carrots, grows them, puts them in stew etc, all in a plural sense. It would be a rare country person (perhaps an obsessive champion vegetable grower) who would ever refer to a carrot in a singular sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Raedwulf
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 05:14 PM

Don't feel too bad, Nigel. Carrot being both Welsh (Pratchett has always tended to make the 'true' dwarves "Welsh", vice the 5th Elphant frex, they're miners & drunkards, 'nuff said... ;-) ) & simple is a coincidence. And the real joke, of course, is that Carrot isn't, & never has been, simple.

Unworldly originally, but not stupid. Strait-laced & inexperienced, but... Latterly, frequent asides & inferences show just what a nasty ticking, logical, copper's mind Carrot hides behind his "I'm just a dumb plod, honest" facade...

And if "the Welsh for 'carrot' is 'moron'", it only goes to prove the subtlety of Pratchett's humour!

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: My guru always said
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:20 PM

Have read all of them, loved all of them, though they seem a bit jaded now. Got all of them in pristine first edition hard back (apart from the first 2 discworld ones which I understand now command a very high price if they ever come on the market).

Also have a CD of Terry Pratchett songs (including Hedgehog song & the Wizards staff) which I have to say was a bit disappointing really. Now I can't find it, have probably lent it out - I wonder who to???

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:24 PM

Actually, having been thinking, I rather like Gaspode.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 02:09 PM

I should have mentioned Carrot earlier, if only for his appearance in the Radio4 version of "Guards Guards". Making him provincial was expected, after all, he is a dwarf (by upbringing), but to give him a Welsh accent, and make him appear simple.
Surely it is a coincidence that the Welsh for 'carrot' is 'moron'!

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,MattII
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:40 AM

I've read most of the books. No favourite characters or books. I tend to dislike the earlier books, but only because the characters are less developed. A book could be made about the earlier lives of Granny Weatherwax and Mustrum Ridcully (they did have an affair after all). I like the way he can tie in main characters (Vimes, Rincewind), major characters (Vetinari, D. of Rats), minor characters (Greebo, Constable Ping), and one timers (various wizards, heroes, etc.) into a seemless framework.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,sandra in sydney
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 08:21 AM

I've read a lot of them & if I had the space would collect them. Recently I was seriously looking at the Art of Diskworld, but decided to just wait till I see it in the library (or maybe on sale, but where will I put it?)

I loved Maurice & the Time Monks & Sam & DEATH & the Patrician is an interesting character, too.

The Last Continent had me laughing continually, as did Maurice & his talking rats.

The most recent books I read were 'The Science of Diskworld'. I found Vol 2 in one of my local libraries, so looked for Vol 1 & found it in my other library, then read them in order. Strangely enough, one library classifed them as fiction, the other as non-fiction. I did like the Elves, but I was very pleased when the Wizards won!!

Unfortunately the both libraries seem to have run out of un-read Diskworld books. Tho I suppose I could borrow one I've already read.


sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 02:40 AM

They are fantasies, pet. Perhaps you don't have a fantastic mind...er, perhaps I should refrase that...

Try two of the latest, 'The Wee Free Men' and 'A Hatfull of Sky." They are aimed at younger readers, which is probably why I like them. Second childhood, you see.    Regards.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 03:34 PM

I've tried reading Terry Pratchett but haven't been able to get into it at all. At first I thought it was because I didn't start with the first book but when I tried that I still didn't get past the first two or three chapters.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Vic at work
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 10:46 AM

I'm sure there is a morris side that use 'a luggage' as a stick box.!?
Favourite character, so many to choose from but at the moment - Ponder Stibbens. I just love his rise through the wizardly ranks. Give him a book of his own, please, Terry.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Torctgyd
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 09:47 AM

Soul Music - TP spent a whole book setting up one joke - Brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Gurney
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:33 AM

Yep, me too. I particularly like the books with the Wee Free Men in them.   Admire Sam Vimes. Know someone like every character in the books.
Pokes fun at folkies? So do I. I am impressed by his knowledge of history and culture.
I'd like to see the stick-and-bucket dance, -from a distance.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: coldjam
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 09:41 PM

I am with the others, my fav is the one I'm reading...fav charactors...sapient pearwood (Luggage), Death, Squeak, the female werewolf whose name eludes me at the moment, Cohen the barbarian...all of them. amd the good part is there are still books of his I haven't read. Life is good!(Elves are bad!)

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Burke
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 09:14 PM

I have not read all the books & remember some imperfectly.

My favorite book is still Small Gods. I'm also fond of Hogfather. I love the library at Unseen Univ.

Favorite characters: Susan, Death, the Librarian

I have Going Postal from the library & am having a hard time getting into it. It seems to have too much of a message going.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 06:14 PM

I'm a long time fan. It's just too bad that the only thing that we yanks get this side of the pond is the books. I have a smidgen of the Night Watch book that's orated (don't know where it came from) and would like to get the others. Only two are available going postal and monstrous regiment at our bookstores.

Favorite book: Soul Music

Least: Fifth Elephant (I'll have to re-read it) Monstrous Regiment to me was great but then being military I probably identified with it too much (I've heard the socks talking I swear it's true).

Favorite character: Ook the Librarian. I've been known to borrow him for my own attempts at fiction (check the Chongo Chimp story about WWII Nazi spies). I think Terry should do a book devoted to Ook finding himself and finding a mate as well.

I also think the Ankh Morpork Fire Dept. is long overdue "Where There's Smoke" would make a good title. I know the last time they tried the firemen turned into pyros to keep their job but now with the expanding economic conditions of Ankh Morpork and the new newspapers there's alot more to burn in town. Just keep the water buckets away from the fool's guild, it's something in the red nose!

As far as making fun of folkies, I'm proud to be the target of his humor!

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Wrinkles
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 05:14 PM

Hi Pogo ;-) and all other "reading alouders",

Once, when my adult son was ill and couldn't focus his eyes without getting a headache, and was getting very board with radio and CDs, I began reading aloud a Diskworld book to him. It began a familly tradition and now we always have one on the go!

I love reading them aloud too, both because I've a little skill at accents and voices (I love putting "character" into the Characters) and the "on the fly" editing one has to do to turn jokes that work in written form into something that works verbally! It's really great fun.

I've found that often descriptions of situations in Prattchet, which only raise amusement when read to ones self, become belly shaking howlers when read aloud! I've found myself spluttering through laughter, trying to actually say out loud what's written.

Wrinkles

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Charliea at work
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 09:25 AM

Lords and ladies is my fave - sexual Morrisment!

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Grab
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 08:17 AM

Pogo: Going Postal is kind of fun, but a bit more on the serious side. Not as dark as Monstrous Regiment though.

Monstrous Regiment is an oddity. Unlike his others, which are comedy with a serious undertone, this is heavily serious with odd comic moments - but the comic moments accentuate the seriousness of the rest of it. It's so utterly different from anything else he's done, I understand why it's not as popular. I didn't really like it myself on the first read-through, but if you re-read it as its own entity (rather than just another fantasy-comedy) then you see it for what it is.

Favourite book: can't pick one, but the shortlist would be Soul Music, The Amazing Maurice, or Only You Can Save Mankind.

Favourite character: shortlist again is probably Sam Vimes or Susan, although it's impossible to keep Death out. ;-)

Identify with: Probably Maurice the cat. Although I can definitely see myself as Johnny or one of his mates. And as a singer, possibly the Prophet Brutha ("Tell me, before these people are put to death, do you sing to them first?" "No!" "Ah, a merciful death then...")

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 06:29 AM

Good Omens would probably be favourite, but it is not a Terry Pratchett book is it (T. Pratchett AND Neil Gainman).

So, witches abroad as favourite Book, but Vimes & The watch as favourire series (With Mort & Reaper Man second).

Someone said that the Witches are not developing, and Granny is now too predictable. I think that is why we now have Tiffany Aching. She has power, but not experience, so there is more room for development. He couldn't have put her too close to Granny. The country just wouldn't have been big enough for both of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Crystal
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 04:56 AM

I LOVE Prattchets digs at folkies. He truely understands morris dancing!
fave book: Witches Abroard, or Hogfather
Fave Character: The Patrician
I identify with The Luggage. I know how it feels to be that angry!

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 03:29 AM

Thank you Jeri.

How wonderful Heather still has that enthusiasm and irreverence. She must be no longer young!

Now I'm going to have to source both tunes.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Pogo
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:42 PM

Wrinkles: Hooray!!! I have not read Monstrous Regiment or Going Postal but I'll be sure to check them out.

Incidentally as a counselor at a girl's camp I brought along Guards! Guards! and read part of it outloud to the girls in my bunk. They loved it!!!! I had to...erm...do a bit of editing here and there (it was a church group LOL) but I may have to bring it back next year to continue reading it ^_^

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:32 PM

The Wizard is now undead. Yes, she's that Heather Wood. If you go to the first link (click on her name), you can see what she's been up to.

They usually keep most TP books in stock at my local bookstore. Let me know if you get desperate, and I'll see if I can provide you with a copy. Amazon would be faster. I was going to provide a link to Terry Pratchett at amazon.co.uk, but their design doesn't allow for it. Type "Pratchett" into the search box at the top, and you ought to get to the right information.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:02 PM

Hedgehog, wonderful.

Wizard, dead blicky.

That'll be Heather WOod, formerly of the Young Tradition?

I'm still hunting for a cheap second-hand copy of Soul Music - it's not in stock new in WHSmiths in Gravesend.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 05:50 PM

There are songs. Specifically, two written by Heather Wood:
The Hedgehog Can Never be Buggered at All
A Wizard's Staff Has a Knob On the End

Richard, I liked Soul Music, even if it was mainly about Music With Rocks in.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 05:31 PM

Err, has anyone the full words and tune to Nanny Ogg's favourite song? Pratchett has written that he has been offered many, maany versions, but is there an official one yet.

This is, you will recollect, the Hedgehog song, with the chorus "the Hedgehog can never be buggered at all".

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: 42
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:46 PM

Carpet People!
j

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:08 PM

Terry Pratchett
Earlier, related thread

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 03:34 PM

To those 'in the know'. It should be clear that much of Terry's books evoke 'Filk' songs. One of the better ones being Terror Time in Lancre

I also like Terry's insistence (to the best of memory) "All folk songs start with a long drawn out note, ... to give you time to get away!"

I must join the majority with favorite characters of DEATH & Sam Vimes, however there are bit-part players without whom the whole series would be much poorer. I'm thinking particularly of Mrs (Rosie) Palm, of the guild of seamstresses. She takes such responsibility for her house full of young ladies. Surely a credit to her profession.

CHEERS

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Fred Maslan
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 12:41 PM

Favorite character, Vimes, Vetinari, Sybil, Leonard, rincewind etc etc etc

Favorite book: small gods, night watch, pyramids, interesting times, maskerade (which I didn't like at all at first). Also "the Bromeliad" not discworld at all.

Least favorite: good omens, couldn't get into it at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 12:34 PM

Terry Pratchett lives in the area of Chippenham in Wiltshire, and so his 'local' morris side is Chippenham Town Morris - need I say more. Lovely chaps all of them - but definitely all 'characters'. He is seen practically yearly at Chippenham Folk Festival - usually incognito, but sometimes there to officially present 'his' special morris award at the 'alternative ritual dance' competition held at the Old Road Tavern. I'd say he is certainly folk friendly (and also friendly to folk!).

Polly

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Layah
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 12:18 PM

I don't think I could pick a favorite character or favorite book. I like the ones about the night watch best...or maybe the ones about death. I think my favorite character would have to be Death, or Vetinari...or Vimes, or Carrot. Yeah, one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Legal Eagle
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 12:09 PM

Leadfingers, agreed. There are lots of backwards references that need to come out in order. Monstrous Regiment is one of my favourites, even the ending: so folk music! I also love Moving Pictures - an iron grip on the Hollywood mentality.

Favourite characters?   CMOT Dibbler, maybe, or even Brutha. How about Mrs Vimes?

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Leadfingers (via the back door)
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:08 AM

I would reccomend trying to read then in the order they came out , if only to watch the way the Characters are developing - Lord Vetinari for example , as well as Sam Vimes . As well as seeing the way T P has developed , himself !!

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Jeri
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:00 AM

I meant to say this yesterday, but didn't, so will now. I don't think his 'digs' at folk music are different than the ones folkies make. He takes the piss out of Morris dancers, which seems acceptible enough. He also managed make them heroes at the same time.

In a world where "I'm a Lumberjack" is used as a dance tune, somewhere there is probably a side that has combined martial arts with their dancing and now performs Morris katas, with or without staff or sword.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Wrinkles
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:56 AM

FT;
Only Wyrd Sisters and Soul Music were animated. Soul music was the better of the two (Christopher [saruman] Lee voiced Death!) but Wyrd Sisters not so good at all. June Whitfield, voicing Nanny Ogg, convinced "Cartoons are for children" toned down Nanny Ogg's lines because she thought Nanny's earthyness was "inappropriate for children": Terry Prattchet was most displeased, which probably explains why no more were made.

IIRC there's a Live Action version of one of the books in the pipeline, but I'd have to check my old 'Ansible's to confirm that, and they're still on an old HD I havn't extracted the files I want to keep from yet.

Emma B:
Yep he did get a lot of hate mail after Lords and ladies, but Tolkien fans were not the main culprets at all! At the time most of the mail came from people who believe they are reincarnations of Elves; I kid thee not! Do a google of "Otherkin" and be prepared to have thy mind boggled. There is some overlap as many of these folk seem to have been informed of elves from Tolkien, and quite a few believe that Tolkien was an Otherkin, not writing fiction, but memories of his life as an Elf. They've lists of fantasy writers who "got it right" and therefore are obviously either Otherkin themselves or "Elfreinds", and non-Otherkin ones who "made it up" and give us humans the "wrong idea" about elves. Lord Dunsany tops the fist list and Prattchet the second. Oddly few are aware of Norse ledgends of Light and Dark Elves or their close folkloric relatives the Irish Sidhe, Tuatha De Dannan; and those that do believe that the Scots Folklore of the Seelie Court predate the Irish and Norse - which are mere corruptions of the Truth as given in Scots folklore.

Pogo:
Vimes turns up as a supporting character after Night Watch in both Monstrous Regiment and in Going Postal.

In Gerneral;
Some books do seem on first reading to either be weak or out of cannon, but they get much better with re-reading; Monstrous Regiment is definitly one of those; it's deep and it takes a while to get it - the hidden comentary on political Spin and the western attitude to Saddam Hussain's Iraq passed me by completly on first reading. I loathed Sourcery when I first read it too, now I do not understand what i found to dislike in it!

I'm kinda surprised that seeing as Mudcatters are Musicians or Fans that Soul Music, his most music dependent book that takes affectionate swipes at working musicians and their life, hasn't been cited as fave
by anyone yet. It introduced Susan too!

Wrinkles

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Wrinkles
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 06:36 AM

Hi Open Mike.

As a fan of Prattchet from the get-go I have to say he didn't really get into his stride, or his fantasy world have any internal consistancy, until the 4th book "Mort" which is probably the best book in the Diskworld series to start with.

Wrinkles

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: open mike
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:58 AM

HAVING HEARD ABOUT pRATCHETT from this forum,
i plan to read one of his books soon.
Is Wyrd Sisters a good one to starts off with?

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 08:31 PM

I prefer Douglas Adams.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 08:07 PM

A couple of the books were animated - what happened to the rest?

He's my second favourite author - My favourite is Robert Aspirin.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 07:45 PM

I like and re read all the books as I find them - they tend to wander around the house something dreadful.

The funiest one, however, must be Reaper Man - I have to read it when alone but that might just be the death of me one of these years.

I don't really like shopping, and I hate shopping centres. The idea of travelling miles to go to one would just not occur to me. Even large supermarkets make me slightly twitchy, even if they do sell huge ready made trifles.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: *Laura*
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 06:06 PM

I agree - I LOVE Good Omens - what is it?
'To americans and other aliens - Milton Keynes was built to be a nice, quiet, altogether pleasant place to live. Many Britons find this amusing'
heh. heh. brilliant stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 05:28 PM

Fave is "Good Omens" -- this thread reminds me that it's about time to reread it.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 05:18 PM

If I didn't like a book that much, I've forgotten it. My favorite book is usually the last one I've read. He does seem to be getting a bit darker and more meaningful with each book, but the meaning sort of sneaks in in such a way that a person could ignore it if they wanted to.

Last one read was Thief of Time. LOVED the martial arts: okidoki, shiitake, upsidazi, no-kandu, tung-pi, and deja-fu. And lines such as: "It's in the darkness where your eyes can't see. The universe becomes two halves, and you live in the half behind the eyes."

I like The Luggage and The Librarian, whose name I can't remember, and
Rincewind, who is a bumbling idiot who's capable of great deeds, which usually happen accidentally while he's Just Muddling Through (like everybody else). Death's pretty cool, but so is the Death of Rats - SQUEAK! - and The Horse...Binky.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Pogo
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 03:21 PM

O_O Yes. I love the books. Every one is my favorite until I read the next one. " The Fifth Elephant " though holds a special place in my heart because it was the one that got me hooked.

My college roomate and I would spend hours reading the books outloud to each other.

My favorite character hands-down is Samuel Vimes because aside from being a character in a fantasy series he has to be one of the most " real " and honest characters I've ever encountered in reading. Though I wonder if we will see anymore of him after " Night Watch " which seemed to be a fitting epilogue for him. Right under him, Rincewind, Carrot, Lady Sybil and Tiffany all vie for second place ;)

My least favorite...oh eh...there's some I'm not so crazy about but I don't outright dislike them. The villians are even likable in a weird way.

The one I'm afraid I most identify with would probably be either Twoflower or Leonard De Quirm.

Even if I don't really get the 'anglish ' humor I laugh anyways {O)

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 03:13 PM

He's a great writer - favourite book is 'Small Gods', least favourite by a long way is 'Monstrous Regiment' - so bad it could have been by a writer who had read his other books but failed to understand what makes all the others so good. Favourite character is definetely Greebo in his human guise - 'No wonder the lady cats scream in the night.'

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Cats
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 02:55 PM

I'm defintley Granny Weatherwax... and as for terry digging at folkies... it takes one to know one. A couple of years ago he was seen at Wadebridge, now Cornwall, Folk Festival, in the back bar of one of the pubd joining in with the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Megan L
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 02:38 PM

I'd love to be someone anarchic like the luggage or the wee free men or even Sam Vimes but i'm probably more of a rincewind.


Who would you introduce to the luggage? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 01:06 PM

Moonglow is off at a UIL writing competition this morning or she'd have already responded that her Secret Santee (E_P_N) influenced her interest in Prattchet. I don't know if she'd read him before, but I do know she very carefully read the book she sent, and spent a lot of time laughing over it. When recently asked which book she thought I'd like, she told me that the one she mailed would have been a good one. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Terry Prattchet and folkies
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 01:03 PM

Yep...all brilliant...When I start trying to think of favourite books, I start with "Lords and Ladies" but then there's......and I could go through most of the rest. Though I think the first two or three were a little less brilliant perhaps. He hadn't really got into his stride then.

As for favourite characters....the Witches, Vimes, Ridcully, Death...and again...most of the rest.

Who do I identify with? Well I've often said I'd like to think I was like Granny Weatherwax (who has become one of his most powerful characters in my opinion) but I have the awful feeling that I'm much more like Nanny Ogg!

I don't feel at all offended by his digs at folk and folkies...most of it's true anyway!!

Love Lynne