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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Murray MacLeod Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:34 AM ..."Darowyn & Murray MacLeod: don't be too precious about subject matter of a song, how many traditional songs do we sing dealing with murder, rape, theft, etc etc. we all sing them, but it doesn't mean we condone the subject matter" ... Yes, we all sing songs about rape theft and murder, but as far as I am aware, all these songs simply recount the event, none of them actually urge, encourage and take delight in, the brutal maiming of a fellow human being. Big big difference ... |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Dave Hanson Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:33 AM " Horrible little song " fairly obvious that it's knockers have never had to struggle or fight for anything they hold precious and never suffered unemployment, hard times or worried about where the next meal or the rent was coming from. tossers. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: GUEST,S O'P (Astrray) Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:29 AM 'It's not even a proper folk song'. Even if it's roots lie in America and it has been Anglicised it relates back to historical events relayed above by Dave Bridge. Just because it is, in the grand scale of things a relatively modern song doesn't mean it is not a proper folk song. Whatever the historical events, this Piltdown Song is a contrived piece of fakery dressed up to fit the remit of the 1954 definition with a provenance purporting to be authentic. It was not passed off as a modern song about historical events - rather it was passed off as a Proper Bona Fide Folk Song which met all the necessary criteria of the 1954 Definition. Worse, it has been sang in good faith as a Proper Folk Song by countless revival singers, especially by those (such as myself) who are from mining backgrounds, Northumbrian or otherwise. It was here on Mudcat that the true provenance of The Blackleg Miner (&c.) was revealed - see Bertsongs - which certainly dinted my folk faith because in Bert I did trust! We had fragmants of The Colliers Rant in my family, though for my version I initially used Crawhall's Beuk o' Newcassel Sangs (1888) which uses an identical set of words to that found in Rhymes of the Northern Bards (1812) though I'm still not too clear on the ultimate source! Not Bert Lloyd anyway, or even the Folk Revival... There are 'proper' folk songs being written today! Amen to that, given that the 1954 Definition remains one of the central shibboleths of the Revival Myth and that all songs are the consequence of idiomatic traditional process - and that there wherever there are folk there will be folk songs. And whilst I dare say the saintly Dizzee Rascal wouldn't thank you if you called Shout a folk song, it is very much popular in precisely the same way the ballads collected by Francis J Child were popular. This isn't to include The Blackleg Miner however, which remains, most assuredly, a forgery. |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: GUEST,Wolfhound person (lost log in somewhere) Date: 25 Jun 10 - 02:54 AM I live in an ex-mining community, though not of that background myself. My neighbours were deep miners, and are in a few cases, "sunshine miners" working the open cast. I have sea-coalers going past the gate on a weekly basis. Their community was destroyed by the "mad axewoman" of the 80s. Their feelings about the closure of Ellington "we could have pumped it out in 24 hours" combined with an accident to a neighbour 3 miles out under the sea two weeks before it closed (he lost a leg when a tub ran away) just reinforce my respect for these men who went down holes for a living. Their historical treatment by their various masters - private, public, whatever - make it unsurprising that such sentiments exist, wherever and whenever they were written / adapted. Paws |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 24 Jun 10 - 05:40 PM "For my part, I agree with the sentiments above about this horrible little song. Maybe if I were part of a mining community I'd feel I have some right to sing it, but as I'm not, it seems very odd to consider singing something so accusatory, righteous and divisive, even if the reason for singing it is claiming it back from the BNumPtys." I don't object to the song myself, though I find the Colliers Rant is a more engaging folk song. I understand the motivation behind FAF, but maybe John Barleycorn might have been a more apposite choice? |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Paco O'Barmy Date: 24 Jun 10 - 05:27 PM Steven Bragg is now a country gentleman residing in his Dorset estate, and shouldn't be troubled with such trifles as popular songs about manual labourers! |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Bounty Hound Date: 24 Jun 10 - 05:26 PM GUEST,S O'P (Astray): 'It's not even a proper folk song'. Even if it's roots lie in America and it has been Anglicised it relates back to historical events relayed above by Dave Bridge. Just because it is, in the grand scale of things a relatively modern song doesn't mean it is not a proper folk song. There are 'proper' folk songs being written today! Darowyn & Murray MacLeod: don't be too precious about subject matter of a song, how many traditional songs do we sing dealing with murder, rape, theft, etc etc. we all sing them, but it doesn't mean we condone the subject matter. As Dave Bridge rightly says, given events at those two mines, the reaction to a blackleg seems to me to be understandable. I appreciate that there are always going to be some things that will really hit a nerve with some people, but I take the view that I will sing a song even though I may not agree with views or events expressed if I can justify it from a 'historical' perspective. If I didn't do that, I'd lose half my repertoire! |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Continuity Jones Date: 24 Jun 10 - 05:11 PM There's a version of this on the most recent album - Spades, Hoes & Plows - by Welsh singer David Wrench. Like the rest of the album, it's a sinister piece. For my part, I agree with the sentiments above about this horrible little song. Maybe if I were part of a mining community I'd feel I have some right to sing it, but as I'm not, it seems very odd to consider singing something so accusatory, righteous and divisive, even if the reason for singing it is claiming it back from the BNumPtys. |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: GUEST,Dave (Bridge) Date: 24 Jun 10 - 04:30 PM The Mines of Seghill and Delaval were where the coal owner, Lord Londenderry, put the miners out of their houses to try and bring them to heel. That did not work so thjey diverted the stream away from their camp so they did not have water. Ultimately the military were brought in and a very bloody fight ensued. I think people would have been rightly upset |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Murray MacLeod Date: 24 Jun 10 - 03:08 PM I couldn't agree more with Darowyn about the sentiments of this song. Repulsive in the extreme imo. It has always amazed me that Dick Gaughan could sing it with such conviction ... |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Paul Burke Date: 24 Jun 10 - 02:44 PM It's well known that Bert didn't make the song up. He adapted it slightly from a Lake District miner's song, but changed the location from Borrowdale graphite mines to the better- known coal mines of the North East, which is why subsequent researchers didn't find anyone who sang it. It was of course originally The Blacklead Miner. Don't work in the pencil mine, Across the page they draw a line To make sure that the point is fine Or they fine the blacklead miner! Borrowdale is a terrible place, They all pack pencils in a case With filthy hands and blackened face Those dirty blacklead miners! |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 24 Jun 10 - 02:26 PM Irrespective of the merits or otherwise of The Blackleg Miner, for a proper folk song about miners you can't do better than The Colliers Rant: The Colliers Rant Best I could do by way of a sound bite |
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Subject: RE: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: GUEST,S O'P (Astrray) Date: 24 Jun 10 - 02:07 PM It's not even a proper folk song - rather an invention of A L Lloyd based roughly on an American prototype (Yowie Miners) and relocated to the villages of the South East Northumberland coalfied named in the song. Supposedly collected from a nameless singer in Bishop Aukland (!) in 1949. Certainly growing up in that area (Seghill / Deleval) I never met any miners who'd heard of it - only folkies. So very much a Fakesong. Hardly the wonder the nationalists are so enamoured of Folk having swallowed the Revival Mythology hook, line and sinker! |
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Subject: The Blackleg Miner and FAF. From: Darowyn Date: 24 Jun 10 - 01:40 PM In the latest message from Folk Against Fascism, there is the following suggestion. "At festivals, why not have a FAF-themed singaround? Nick Griffin challenged Billy Bragg on BBC News during the recent election to sing "a proper folk song, like the Blackleg Miner", implying that only BNP propagandists know anything about folk music. We want to make The Blackleg Miner our festival anthem, so if you're running a singaround or you're just singing at one, why not sing it? And be sure to tell people why!" I could not despise the BNP more, but I shall certainly never sing "The Blackleg Miner" I find it a truly hateful song in both literal and metaphorical senses, containing, as it does, and explicit death threat. "Across the lane we've stretched a line, to catch the neck and break the spine of the dirty blackleg miner" Living in a mining area, where there were both strikers and 'blacklegs' during Thatcher's Miners' strike, it seems to me that the mindless and violent tribalism expressed in the song is the last thing that we should be promoting as Our British Heritage. Cheers Dave It's just the sort of song I'd expect the BNP to pick up on. They can keep it, as far as I'm concerned! |
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