Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 11:04 PM

No Fion, I was perhaps being paranoid but certainly had not intended coming over as welcoming. I thought that this thread may have been directed at a couple of posters and immediately thought "this is a troll". I then went back and had a look at the member name and saw that this was their first post.

It sort of reminded me of a member called Chef who had a similar one line writing style and basically started Camsco vs CDNow and has not been seen since and an earlier "Guest" who started Accounts at HearMe.

I'll go to bed now and hope I will sleep it off.

Jon

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 10:12 PM

Awwwwwww, but I wanna think!! It's been so long since I even could........

Well, maybe I never could, but I tend to agree with all of the above. There are many things people alive now will never know, things our great grandchildren will never know, and things that perhaps humans never should know. Look at the differences in just the last 100 years.

Things we take for granted, our grandparents would never have believed, like talking to you on this computer. Some things, probably including re-incarnation, will always be matters of faith. I don't really consider re-incarnation to be an "alternative" belief. Millions of Buddhists, Hindi, etc. have believed in it for thousands of years. Alternative to what? Cold, hard fact? There is damn little of that, even in the Scientific World.

Apples are red, except for green Granny Smiths, yellow Delicious, etc.

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 09:23 PM

Fortean Times

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 08:58 PM

...with the possible exception of waterskiing through a revolving door

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 08:55 PM

I believe anything is possible

Little Neo

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 08:39 PM

I would like to believe in several things, but I only believe in a few. Astrology, yes, it's a useful tool for understanding yourself. Aliens, yes, they probably exist, but are they going to come to Orillia and make circles on the ground? Highly doubtful. Past lives, sure, why not. Eternal youth and life? Maybe not eternal, but there are theories that if we could clear up any cell damage as soon as it happens and regenerate healthy new cells consistently, life could definitely be prolonged.

~*sirepseh*~

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 08:23 PM

I'm with Sorcha - it's all or nothing. In my case nothing. (Don't think, Sorcha - you'll spoil it.)

As for Jon, Fmaj7, I think he was just trying to say welcome, but it came out wrong. On his better days (when he's not droning on about how much better his banjo playing used to be) he is one of the more useful contributors to this virtual community.

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Barbara
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 08:16 PM

A lot of the ideas you mentioned, I file in the "maybe" bin. I have no memory of any personal experience with alien beings, and crop circles are awfully easy to fake. I enjoy talking astrology for a while, and am intrigued by the times it correlates or confirms something I know about someone. I wouldn't go get a chart done to see if an endeavor was auspicious.
I've had some very clear pictures in my mind when I did past life regressions with someone once. In one, I was living out the end of my days on the prairie, and my teeth were worn down to nubs, and there was, and always had been sand/grit in everything and my clothes were all faded to the same shade of yellow grey from the sun. If I made that all up, I am surprised at the detail.
Still, it's not something I can know for sure about, so I put it in the box with all the other things that are beyond my knowing and control
. As a massage therapist I work with subtle body energies, and sometimes I can sense and get confirmation for changes that happen while I am working on someone. It took me a long time before I was willing to talk about any of the energy stuff, because I didn't want to be thought a kook.
Part of the problem is that as our society changes, what is acceptable to believe changes. I've been having knee trouble, and by the end of this summer I was hobbling and contemplating a cane. I went to a Naturopath, an MD, a massage/energy worker, and an Accupuncturist.
The Naturopath gave me a lot of vitamin and mineral supplements, the MD gave me Valium, The massage person did "tissue unwinding" and the Accupuncturist needled, massaged and Moxa'd me.
Didn't find a lot of change with the vitamins and minerals, but I'm being good and taking them.
The valium cleared up the stiffness immediately, put me to sleep every 4 hours, and left me with the sense that it is a very addictive drug. I cut my dose down to 1/4. The massage/energy work increased the tension/tightness.
The accupuncture has just about eliminated the problem in 3 treatments...
Of course it could just be the vitamins kicked in finally, or maybe that short time of taking the "muscle relaxant" valium gave me the healing time the joints needed.
So,I'd say the challenge is to remain semi-open-minded.
Perhaps it's just a GBS adjective conjugation situation: I am openminded, you are gullible, and he is a whacked out kook.
So, Fmaj7, what beliefs do you cling to that are unsupported by either science or the mainline of society? I'd be willing to bet you have some, just different than those you listed above. Are you religious? What about your political philosophy? or personal habits?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Helen
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 08:04 PM

Fmaj7,

Thanks for your question. I tend to be sceptical and seek logical explanations for things, but I also have had some psychic experiences which science has not yet explained in a satisfactory enough way for me to think that there is a non-psychic process happening. (I have been psychic all my life.)

I am in the process of checking out astrology, not as a practitioner, but as a user of the information, and at present I am being surprised at the relatively close correlation between astrological interpretations and the events in my life, and some of the people I know. I am therefore tending towards thinking that there may be something in it, although I would not go so far as to state categorically that it is 100% accurate or that it necessarily relates to the position of stars & planets. I stress that I am not referring to the generic astrological statements in newspapers but to information relating specifically to an individual's time & place of birth.

On the other hand, my own personal jury is still out, and has been for years, on whether there is anything valid in reincarnation. As for alien intervention to produce crop circles: I don't know much about that at all, but I would probably favour a simpler explanation until stronger evidence is shown.

I think that the use of Reiki to contribute to healing is well worth investigating, and the information I have gained so far makes me sway more in favour than against in my estimation of its usefulness. It may not heal necessarily but it seems to have a positive effect in a lot of cases I have heard about.

So, in answer to your question, I am one person who holds some opinions in favour and some against depending on the phenomenon in question and the information available to me.

Hope this helps.

Helen

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Hotspur
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 08:02 PM

As a believer in some alternative beliefs (is that redundant?) I figured I'd put my $0.02 in.

I believe, basically, that science does not and cannot explain all phenomena. Particularly where the mind is concerned, we have not even begun to plumb the depths of what living beings may be capable of. I also believe that we do not know all there is to know about the earth, life, space, time, etc., etc., and that to assume that we do or will is an act of hubris.

However, does this mean i belive in alien abductions? No. Do I think there might be intelligent life on other planets? Maybe. Crop circles? Are weird, i wouldn't presume to have an explanation for them. I do believe in ESP and things of that ilk, because, as i said before, the mind is capable of more than we know.

To sum up, I guess i would say that there are many things that people have experienced or observed which have no "rational" or "scientific" explanation, and I do not assume that everything can necessarily be explained by chemical reactions, mechanics, etc. Or, as Shakespeare said, much more neatly than I've done,

"There are more things in heaven and on earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 07:24 PM

Speaking of such things...

When I first started hearing about "alternative" music, I truly thought they were using a euphemism for "folk".

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 07:19 PM

I can only speak for myself. I enjoy examining alternatives but do not necessarily embrace them simply because they represent other than mainstream thought and/or methods. There are even a few rather mundane ideas and practices which I find quite appealing.

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 07:16 PM

I understand what you are asking, and given the subjects discussed here, don't think it is at all out of line. Requires some thought, tho........I think the answer is No. Even alternative beliefs, as you call them, need some kind of logic to support them, even if it is skewed logic. Lemme think some more, OK?

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 07:14 PM

I presume that many people would simply consider themselves 'open' to alternative views and the more esoteric explanations. Just as you, (and as a matter of fact, I), 'tend' toward scepticism, others tend toward acceptance. It may simply be how we are wired...*shrug*. Many people don't claim that their views are proven, just that they have had experiences that they need to deal with.

I will admit that my worldview doesn't have nearly the variety in it...but there is still LOTS to learn and explore, even for a sceptic.

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Fmaj7
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 06:58 PM

Allan,

You've touched on what I was trying to ask (however much Jon might not like it) is any alternative view immediately embraced?

Fmaj7

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 06:52 PM

Alternative thinkers tend to hold some level of faith in alternatives.

I believe that pretty much covers it.

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Fmaj7
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 06:46 PM

Yes I did.

It's something I'd like to discuss, and I think I asked the question as delicatly as I could.

I'm sorry that you disapprove.

Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 06:42 PM

Did you really create a membership just to ask that?

Jon

Subject: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
From: Fmaj7
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 06:34 PM

Firstly can I say that, I in no way wish to demean anyone's beliefs, upset anyone in any way or suggest that my beliefs are in anyway superior to anyone else's here.

OK, I'll ask me question now:

Over the past few months, and indeed years, threads have been started which discuss, to me, a fairly disparate range of topics:

astrology, alien abduction, reincarnation and past lives, remote healing, ESP, UFOs, crop circles etc, etc.

I am by nature pretty sceptical, and have difficulty in believing in any of the above.

My observation, and this is where I think I might upset some, is that people who believe in astrology, also seem to believe in reincarnation and alien explanations of crop circles.

So, finally, my question is: are there some people who believe in astrology who think crop circles are rubbish, believe in remote healing but think reincarnation is garbage?

I hope I've made my question clear, and would reiterate that this question is no way trying to 'get at' any catters whose beliefs I may have touched on.

Thank you for your time.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Fmaj7