BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 07:53 PM

The population of Bude was 7000 when we came here 30 years ago. It's now in excess of 10000. The reason for the increase is a massive estate of soulless housing behind Morrisons and a massive development at Binhamy Farm, vehemently opposed by locals and Cornwall Council, but overridden by fatty Eric Pickles. There's another major scheme in the offing in Stratton, next door to Bude, that seems certain to go ahead. There are no plans for new schools and the local primaries and our one secondary are bursting at the seams. The next nearest secondary is ten miles away via a rotten bus service. The road infrastructure is a nightmare. The local sewage works can't cope, and it stinks to high heaven in summer during the tourist season. The medical centre is completely overrun. There is no way I can get an appointment to see my GP in less than six weeks unless I join the daily 8.30 am telephone treadmill, even then with little chance of success. The nearest main hospital is forty miles away and the nearest mainline station is an hour's drive at Bodmin Parkway. There are three or four buses a day to Exeter, a two-hour journey. Yet the powers that be seem determined to build hundreds of little boxes on prime agricultural land. The concept of affordable housing is paid minimal lip service. You wanna sell a few acres for building little boxes all the same? You've cracked it! You live in Tory England! Baksheesh is everything!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 01:40 PM

behind my house three years ago, Goggle shows the house being built. 5 minutes walk another house in the garden of "Triona", and about 20 seconds before that they ripped up a stone house and built a care home for special people, loadsa tarmac (this year). & the special needs school (no connection AFAIK) they are for ever adding bits like a swimming pool. And just across from there about 20 (min) houses on the site of a builders yard, knocking down yet another stone cottage 10 years ago. Then there is the Old Ship Inn site, lain fallow/green for years, but arguably reclaimed land, alongside the canal (add 25% to the value just for the amenity) - pegged-pout ready for the dull-bozers. And opposite that a huge accommodation block for the private school. True they knocked down a building, of much smaller size. They has laid artificial surface (ie impervious) tennis courts this year. And the Old Ryeford pub that was stripped and more floors put in with 10 or more sheltered housing behind - oh about 2 years ago. Plus a single house being built behind what was a police house.
All in a town of 3000 ish houses.

The real problem is that it is only a small increase, - yea small per year. And we can't properly house the people we have - modern culture and an addiction to house prices.

I remember in the 60's neighbours being three and four person households. One house was brothers and wives until they could afford to divide and move on, a not unknown practice then. People did without until they could afford.

That culture may well return, and may well not!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 02:50 PM

Big Al Whittle, I like your taste in cartoons.

James Thurber!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raedwulf
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 02:28 PM

Yep, that looks like evidence! It certainly seems to be a bit of an issue in what is presumably your neck of the woods, er, fields. That doesn't necessarily equate to a significant issue across the rest of the country, of course. I had a brief search, but couldn't turn up any useful national statistics.

The grubbing up of orchards has been going on for years, I'm afraid. Not always to move away from agriculture, or even from orchards, but farming is a business, and if an orchard can more profitably be turned to something else... And there has also been an issue with the profitability of farming for years, especially for smaller farmers. As for knocking down houses in large gardens, again, that's been known about for years. At least 15 years ago, I can remember reading about this happening on the South coast particularly, in places like Poole. Developer outbids everyone for house with large garden & sea views, knocks down house, builds 6 flats & sells each for the value of the original house & makes millions... Can't say as I like it much, but I can't see what you can do about it.

A similar thing happened on the A10 between Cambridge & Ely, at Waterbeach. One lone house set in a very large plot was allowed to fall into disrepair, presumably whilst planning permission was being sought. Eventually a tall fence was put up which more or less hid the house (I used to drive past it going to / from work), then it disappeared... I've no idea how many houses were put on it in the end. Google is out of date for this also, but if
this link works, it's the lone property where the bus stop is marked. If you go to Satellite, you can see there was a substantial amount of woodland; I don't know how much of that survives; and if you roll down to Streetview, you can see... actually, I think it might be a new property being built. It doesn't look like the old house, which, I'm sure, was further back from the road, and SV reckons that's Aug '16, which is well after the old house went. I have a feeling that this was actually bought up by travellers, which the buildings & caravans that can be seen tends to support.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:59 AM

I lied - new homes - 1,350 - and here is the map - quite an area of agricultural land - you could see maize from the A419 this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:33 AM

Do you have evidence for your claim of 'trend',

now, let me see. The sizeable apple orchard scrubbed out 5 years ago in the hope of planning permission. Sits, not a 1/4 mile from me, already sold to the milk processing plant 300 yds further. Horses dispossessed.

5 minute walk the other direction Horsemarling Farm** now morphing into Standish Gate home to 10/15 houses though they don't call them that any more they are dwellings. 1 years ago it grazed horses and had extensive fields for cows. Adjacent to that is Arrowsmith drive, 15 years ago it was also a far bigger area of farm fields. And Grove Farm** 4/5 sizeable houses in what was the FarmYard behind the Farmhouse. 7 minutes.

Then there is Fox's Field** - 5 years ago that was an arable field + rushed archeological dig to get it ready to put 30 houses (and just 40 parking places on). 10 minutes.

Then there is the fields lain fallow for about 3 years while they re-submitted plans for gawd knows how many houses near Chipmans Platt (building now), a mere mile from me. And Dale Vince has been re-submitting plans on the other diagonal to build his football stadium stadium and commercial units in green fields - note the proximity to M5 J13.

And we are about to have a referendum in Stonehouse on the "Town Plan" - they will add 1000 houses to a town of 3500. And there ain't no industrial land to re-claim round here - PAL.

Stroud is 10 minute drive and here** they flattened a house and green garden to lay tarmac & concrete for 10 houses. Then there is the badger sets** they tried to uproot and in the centre of town, they built 20 5 bedroom houses - not yer artisan walk to the bus starter homes.

Slad valley, home of Laurie Lee, has fought endlessly to stop houses being built there. The fight continues, as it does Rodbourough fields.

** too recent to be included on maps, even Goggle maps. Quite literally concrete evidence, I see the lorries delivering it!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 06:01 PM

https://www.allposters.com/-sp/I-come-from-the-haunts-of-coot-and-hern-New-Yorker-Cartoon-Posters_i9172635_.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 05:05 PM

One of the major failings of the EU is the inability to rein in the CAP monster. Throughout the EU the food market is subjected to distortion.
https://www.economicshelp.org/europe/disadvantages-cap/
It is not just the UK dependent on food imports within the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 01:55 PM

I was born in England
wasn't that a song by Elton John?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 01:33 PM

From: Mr Red - PM
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 03:16 AM
We are a net importer of food. Were before WW2. A factor that will become clearer when the current political farrago reveals more of its unintended (ha!) consequences.
I guess you're referring to Brexit, but what difference do you honestly think it will make. We may be a net importer of food, but not necessarily from the EU.
A quick check online will show that the EU (not just UK) relies heavily on the import of food to meet its demands. Here

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raedwulf
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 05:54 PM

Do you have evidence for your claim of 'trend', Red? Forgive me if I am suspicious. Prime agricultural land is going for upwards of ?15K / acre these days. Which is not a lot if you can stick twenty shoeboxes on an acre, I grant you.

However, you have to apply for planning permission. And, I believe, not only is there a general category of 'use of land', there is also a reluctance to allow that use to change. It's not as simple as buying an acre of farmland & applying for planning permission for a house. The change of use of the land has to be approved from agricultural to residential. As far as I am aware, councils are rather reluctant to change the usage of agricultural land. You're right about net importer, though. In fact, we were a net importer before WWI never mind Mk II!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 03:16 AM

If you take gardens & parks as green - then the figures look good.

But the trend is to build on low lying land, good for agriculture. Leaving the hills to livestock. And arable is diminishing faster.

We are a net importer of food. Were before WW2. A factor that will become clearer when the current political farrago reveals more of its unintended (ha!) consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raedwulf
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 04:44 PM

Yer, but yer a bleedin' Norvener, aint'cha, Raggy? Only 'arf Hinglish! ;-)

As Steve nearly says, there is very little "natural" in England or, indeed, in Britain. For better or worse, the landscape has been altered and / or 'managed' by us for more than a thousand years. There's very little 'ancient' left, the marks of human hands are all over. The landscape is still more rural than urban. There's still a lot of wilderness. But neither of those words are synonyms for 'natural'. If you see what I mean!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 03:11 PM

I've never considered myself as British.

I was born in England, it says so on my Birth Certificate.

People born in Wales quite rightly consider themselves Welsh. People born in Scotland quite rightly consider themselves Scottish.

Good luck to them all.

I was born in England and I am English.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 03:10 PM

Is it inhabited by people who pluck the feathers from pheasants?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 02:41 PM

Why only mad dogs and Englishmen, anyway?

Also, if you live in England, don't you also live in Britain, even though if you live in Britain you do not necessarily live in England?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 02:23 PM

Quite correct Stu, but I live in England, not Britain.










Apart from when I live in Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Stu
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 02:15 PM

It's Great Britain and Northern Ireland rather than just England too.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 01:27 PM

While that is indeed good to read, it underplays another important factor. I have always lived in very built up areas, but in every case you could get to a large scale green area by travelling just a few miles. For example, I was born in Middlesbrough which is about as urban as you could get outside London, but Eston Hills, Roseberry Topping, the moors and the dales are not far away at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 01:26 PM

The use of the word "natural" in the study is ill-advised. The only truly natural vegetation in this country is found on some mountains above 3000 feet, some sea and mountain cliffs (ungrazed by sheep) and a very few relict patches of natural woodland, for example, at Wistman's Wood and Black Tor Copse on Dartmoor and Dizzard Wood on the cliffs a couple of miles from my house. Those are the ones I know because they're near me. One or two scraps of ashwood on limestone pavement come to mind - there's one at Colt Park Wood near Ribblehead. There's also Rassal ashwood in Wester Ross. Almost all moorland and uncultivated grasslands, woodland such as Epping Forest and all inland heathland, is at best semi-natural. None the worse for that, and I too was pleasantly surprised by the results of the survey. Next step is to stop farmers from using neonicotinoids. Come on, Gove, you can do it!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Stu
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 12:08 PM

Good stuff, and I was surprised too. Feel a tiny bit happier now. 🌳

Subject: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 07:54 AM

Green & Pleasant

I know we live in a beautiful country but was a little surprised at this survey.